Not so much obama

efending obama with the argument that, "he's

just trying to help" is like defending a 4 year old that goes into the

kitchen while mom is making dinner and destroys the place - throwing

flour and sugar and pots and pans and silverware everywhere (not to

mention pooping his pants) - and not criticizing or reprimanding him,

much less defending him.

i do believe that it is indeed ignorant to compare obama to hitler

simply because he is not sinister and evil like hitler. i believe he is

well intentioned, and is adamantly pursuing what he believes is right

for the people.

however, with regard to government-run health care systems, all you

have to do is look at the inefficiency of any government-run program.

look at how many programs that are already in place that are cutting

budgets, look at how many programs are in debt, look at how much waste

is poured into them and how little the people actually reap of them (as

a ratio of how much resource is invested to how much actual benefit

goes out to the public), and you can see that a government-run program

is, in the long run, economically unsustainable. there is no sounder

evidence of this pursuit's inevitable failure than the current examples

of medicare, medicaid, social security, etc.

to fix the problem? in my mind, there is really only one true solution

to the problem. people need to pay cash for their health care to

whatever extent their incomes allow, and leave the insurance industry

out of the picture entirely with exceptions only made to major

incidents and the chronically ill. by the nature of selection, in this

way, the medical->insurance->materials (as a trickle-down effect)

industries would be forced to be more competitive with their costs of

services. the most significant reason for cutting insurance out of the

picture is that there is no reason for a middle-man, third-party agent

to be capitalizing off of your health and quality of life. this expense

should be purely between the health care provider and the individual.

and to service the low-income populous? invest in more income-based

clinics (emphasis placed on income-based so the wealthy could not abuse

these facilities). enlist freshly graduated students who want to pay

off student loans to work these clinics. to me, this makes sense for so

many reasons: 1) judging by americans' current aptitude for health and

dependence/burden on the health care system, it is a horrible

investment. like i said before, this is not economically sustainable.

2) realistically, we have nothing to invest into this system to begin

with. i have heard a wide variety of numbers tossed around about what

our current deficit is standing at these days, but never have i heard

that it was in the positive. there is nothing financially sound to back

up an initiative of this caliber. 3) as an individual, this would still

grant you access to health care, no matter how bad-off you were

financially, but it would put the responsibility into the individual's

hands of their decision-making pertaining to their quality of care that

they receive. 4) this system is dependent on an employed and tax-paying

population. i heard on the radio yesterday that the nation-wide

unemployment rate is upwards of 17% now, up from 12% the last time i

heard it reported. that being said, a government-run insurance program,

albeit nonprofit or otherwise, is no less an industry than any other

business. it needs cash flowing into it in order to function properly,

and with an unstable inflow of cash (not to mention a bleak outlook on

future economic prospects), again, it is an unsound investment.

i could probably rant on and on, but the underlying message here is

that many americans are upset because it's simple. they can

hypothetically add up in their minds that just like with anything else,

if there's not enough money being poured into the system, corners have

to start being cut, and with health care reform, those corners would

potentially be their well-being, which is where the reference to hitler

comes in: the power of one's well-beling, placed in the hands of a

distanced, governing body.
 
I like your ideas. But saying that a government run health care plan is economically unsustainable because of medicare or medicaid isn't really a good comparison. The U.S. is the only industrialized country in the world without a government run health care system. Clearly, it works, just not the way we're trying to do it.
 
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You know what else comes from Kenya?
FUCKING AIDS!
He's planning to give us all AIDS by making us get the swine flu shot! I'm tellin u man!!
 
before you get to the point of how to pay for it. run it, etc.

ask yourself this..... Is government run healthcare a legitimate function of government? i say no, some people say yes.
 
these threads fucking suck. stop making them. America sucks balls, its not getting any better regardless of how healthcare is provided, so shut the fuck up about it.
 
lol, if government were supposed to provide healthcare for Americans, it would have been in the constitution. Nowhere does it say that the US government should be held responsible for the health and well being of its citizens. So no, it is neither legitimate or necessary that government provide healthcare for its people. People should be held accountable for their own health, just like they should be held accountable for their own actions. massive welfare bill if you ask me.
 
haha Obama said something like this himself in one of his classic (and numerous) goof ups. He was trying to make the point that government run programs are successful, and then someone asked him about private health insurers competing with a cheap ass government option and he said, private plans will be safe, im not too worried about the private plans. Heck, UPS and FEDEX are doing just fine, its the postal service that is having a hard time.....what a fucking dope, handily OWNING his entire healthcare reform plan without even realizing it
 
you have alot of good idea's. You have to remember its not just obama. Hes not even writing the bill. Nancy pelosi is the one who scares me the most as a politician.
 
Nancy Pelosi, Rahm Emmanuel, every single one of Obama's Czar's (which I believe is unconstitutional, to have czars who aren't elected and therefore don't answer to the american people..Don't worry, Bush had em too, and they were unconstitutional then as well)
 
Dont worry, Im here to save the day.

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There we go, now after people see this, they wont argue anymore.

 
what. this thread isnt going anywhere, dont worry. its the week before finals, i dont have time to make real thought out posts. ill poke my fun and move on

 
If I recall correctly, Reagan had 1, a Drug Czar, and he created the post and yes, that person answered directly to Reagan, which I don't agree with one bit. These guys don't answer to congress or the people, but solely to the president. In the past 31 years, every pres has had at least one czar. terrible trend..
 
It IS finals week for me.

And I am doing it cause for the first like 12 posts everyone was just joking around, and then Mr. Stormcloud skiminnesota has to make it all serious and shit.
 
coulda sworn he had a bunch more than that, but cant find it now. i need to start bookmarking this stuff when i read it lol
 
Romney....someone who actually has a clue about how an economy works. Jindal is asian/indian though, so that may be more appealling than white-as-hell Romney. I love Romney though, he knows his shit, but Jindal would throw a curveball to everyone who assumes the republican party is full of racists, just like Michael steele does. I don't really like Steele though, the guy makes some Biden-esque goofs when he talks.
 
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHA

regardless of politics, or anything of the sort. do you honestly think jindal is in any way a viable candidate? there is no possible way for him to win. for one when he speaks i feel like hes addressing a group of kindergartners.
 
what shes gonna do is anybody's guess.

SHES GOIN ROGUE!!!!

haha

but last i heard she was considering running on her own party. some sort of "true conservative" sort of thing. which would be fantastic, split the vote.
 
I'll shoot you and then myself. My girlfriend loves Palin, I facepalmed when she said that. I mean, she is a conservative woman, which i like a lot, and good for her, but stay out of the public eye for a while...make millions on your book and please don't ruin the chances for a legitimate candidate like Romney. Speaking of Romney, watch this clip, funny as hell.

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i want someone young and extremely conservative. i happen to really like jindal even though i don't think he will run. oh and what obama speaks any better? i can't stand listening to his speeches, the campaign is over.
 
yes obama speaks much better. thats not really debatable, thats quite simply fact. you may not enjoy listening to him, but theres no doubt that hes a good orator.

bobby jindal is simply the next sarah palin. a hail mary by a party desperate to find the obama appeal. going after women with palin didnt work, so now they will try their next best bet, go for the "multi racial/post racial/non racial" vote with jindal.

id be inclined to agree with Delphi on this one, as of now the most viable candidate i see is Romney.

ron paul? but hes a libertarian, not a republican. so he wont win.

i dont know who else could really have a chance.
 
If he has a damn teleprompter or is on the campaign trail. When he is in a discussion forum it sounds like I did in my 7th grade speech class:

"Ah, um.... um ahhh....."

And the biggest issue I have with him is that he still, over a year later, is acting and speaking like he is still on the campaign trail. Buddy, you got elected, yes, you are president. Now go do your fucking job.
 
i could careless about all of that, i want a YOUNG, extremely conservative president.the republican party needs a facelift, botox if you will, anything that will help us win the next election.
 
hhaah I'm not sure if a libertarian would ever have a chance to be elected, libertarianism can be a really scary principle, even to conservatives. In fact, I think a good amount of conservatives can't stand libertarians, and the entire left wing probably hates them for obvious reasons. It's a pretty far out belief system, but I've been warming up to it lately. The only thing I'm having troubling grasping is their stance on weed, I understand the economics behind it, but I just don't like the adverse effect. Sure, people should be able to do whatever the hell they want with their own bodies, just like people should be able to smoke cigarettes and make the decision to not wear seatbelts, but I just don't know about weed.

and about Romney, he was my governor while I was in Highschool, and I just love the guy. He is so presidential looking and he is a true fiscal conservative. I don't give a shit about his religious beliefs because I don't think it matters that he's a mormom (though a large portion of the catholic bloc won't vote for him) He is the most obvious choice for getting the economy on the right track, but like Obama, he lacks experience in foreign affairs. Taking the libertarian view, I'm not sure we should be too concerned about foreign affairs when we have so much shit going on here, but at this juncture, it's impossible to disregard the rest of the world.
 
hes running for '12. like every politician ever.

and thats the thing, jindals response to obamas speech (the state of the union i think? i cant remember which one) was prewritten and preprepared. and still sounded like shit
 
Time to be a jerk.

Wanna know who is considered one of the greatest orators of the 20th century?

Wait for it.............

Wait for it.............

Wait for it.............

Wait for it.............

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Yes, I just went there.
 
a positive bit of news is that democrats seem to be hemorrhaging independents. Hopefully the republicans can get back to their conservative roots, quit telling people how to live their lives, and reign those indies in.
 
but people like palin do the same for them.

to be honest i think incumbents on BOTH sides should be scared right now. people seem to be sick of the bullshit on BOTH sides right now, and ready to just elect someone BESIDES the dude or chick who currently holds their senate or house seat.
 
agreed, there needs to be a massive purge of the congress and the senate... And by purge I don't mean jedi purge or Stalin's purge, but a purge where we just kick them all out of office and start over. No one needs to die, but everyone needs to leave.
 
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