nonviolence

A

agingeri

Member
I have been disappointed to discover over the years that my beliefs of nonviolence and pacifism are alien to the general public. I'm hoping I can enlighten people as to my philosophy that all killing is wrong and I would greatly appreciate hearing from anyone who shares my beliefs or disagrees with me.

First of all, I would like to point out that being and advocate of nonviolence does not make me complacent. Far from it. Let me remind you that India gained soviergnity through an agenda of civil disobedience and nonviolent resistance. And it's not easy, either. Thousands of Indian civilians were killed. But their deaths, instead of inciting anger in other countries, as do the deaths of Palestinian suicide bombers, turned public sympathy toward India and served to portray the British occupying forces as monsters.

I am not a coward. If a draft is instated, I'm not fleeing to Canada. I'm going to jail.

Violence solves nothing. As exhibit A, I present: the history of the known universe. Discuss.

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I'm an atheist/moralist.

My parents were hippies. Both my grandfathers were Mennonite conscientious objectors in WWII. It's complicated.
 
the problem is that the rest of the world does not share your views. you might not be willing to kill but the rest of the world and the terrorists in the world certainly are. that has already been proven.

Kyle//

Thats my attitude exactly. Keep trying until you either get it or get hurt. And more often than not i get hurt. -kjfreerider

OPTION 5 REPRESENT!
 
i respect someone who would go to jail instead of fleeing the country if you refuse the draft. that is standing up for your ideals. good on ya for that. my question is this: you cite the example of india in the fourties as an example of non violent civil disobedience working. another that comes to mind is the civil rights movement in the south in the sixties. the thing that these two cases have in common is that they were struggling to right an injucitice in their own countries. how does civil non violent civil disobedience bring down terroism? how does it effect leaders of foreign nations? to disobey you first have to be disobeying an existing athority who wants you to do something that you see as unjust or wrong. the only thing that terrorists and muslim hard liners want us to do, is to die. the only way to avoid this is to do what we are doing, namely being proactive in taking them out.

non violence cannot work in this situation.

-you think you can take us on... you and your cronies-
 
I like to shoot things

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

-Not enough money for a summer camp this year-session 4

_-_-_-_Scoot4Life_-_-_-_

 
You bring up an interesting point, anewmorning. You are right that in the past, nonviolence has been used only to the end of righting an injustice, not exacting revenge. It is also true that this is the only major use of nonviolent movements. But in the case of terrorism, nonviolence can be used as a substitute to retalliation. Why do terrorist attacks occur? In my humble opinon, they are meant to incite violence. Once the terrorists coax America into using the kind of broad, sweeping military retalliations for which it is famous and some innocents are killed (which is inevitable), they can incite more violence and the number of terror attacks increases as the demand for revenge against America grows.

Do we have to invade 2 countries and kill, at last estimate, between 9148 and 11,005 Iraqi civilians just to exact revenge? 3,000 American civilians died on September 11th, 2001. We have killed more than triple that number of civilians in Iraq. Is revenge really important enough that we are willing to stoop to the same level as the monsters we are fighting?

What if, after 9/11, we had used our army to protect our own country and instead of sending forces to the middle east to kill and be killed, we decided that instead of killing civilians in the Middle East to get back at the terrorists (who, themselves, could care less wheter civilians in the Middle East die), we would organize an international police force to track down and arrest terrorists? Sure, some countries would not want to cooperate, but the United States has a pretty hefty economy to negotiate with.

There's a viable alternative. Not perfect, but neither is the use of military force. My point is that there are other options, and rarely is anything other than military force used to deal with these attacks.

Can you look an Iraqi in the eyes and tell him he must die so that we can get back at Al-Qaeda? I can't. Would you die so that another country can get revenge on a terrorist who you have nothing to do with and is not even from your country?

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I'm an atheist/moralist.

My parents were hippies. Both my grandfathers were Mennonite conscientious objectors in WWII. It's complicated.
 
we need to invade evey waring conutrey but do with the UN. WE didnt stop pol pot and cuse of that millions of lives where lost

Chris Knight : So, if there's anything I can do for you, or, more to the point, to you, you just let me know.

Susan : Can you hammer a six-inch spike through a board with your penis?

Chris Knight : Not right now.

Susan : A girl's gotta have her standards.
 
^um invasion is a method propelled by force. force = against another's will, i think you see where i'm going with this.

as for fighting for your country. i think most anyone can see honor in placing one's self in danger to fight for a cause. that being said i think that just as many of us could probably agree it would be simply idiotic to place one's self in danger's way to fight for something that one is vehemently opposed to. however, as jd would say, there are an army of morons that pledge their blind allegiance to the flag - forgetting that democracy means democracy (i'm talking about representation here). the 'forefathers' of america rebelled against the king because they believed that they were being taxed without representation. there is no shame in refusing to fight for what you oppose, especially if you had no voice in making the decision to fight. in addition to that, i don't see any reason why a person would volunteer for prison time. there is no honor or pride in choosing something that is the penalty equivalent to serving military time.

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman : 'Holy dog shit. Texas? Only steers and queers come from Texas, Private Cowboy. And you don't look much like a steer to me so that kinda narrows it down.'
 
Did you ever play Manhunt for PS2? Sounds like your type of game.

better to burn out...

...then fade away
 
seriously the world would be so boring without wars and shit.......... ^^^^^ fuckin communist liberal kerry supporter asian cunt licker fag

handicaped skiing

is so hot right

now.

finger old truckers for beer then sell the beer- lateralis

have seen a jogger with one, i was high when i saw him and for the first couple of seconds i thought he was really a fucking alien(on the oakley medusa hats)

WORLD FREERIDE CAMP SESSION 3 BIOTCHES
 
Here's an article I recently wrote for my website Common Sense, thought it was relevant:

Today is Memorial Day. All day I've heard about all the heroes who gave their lives in foreign wars waged by America. And I was originally going to write an article about how American war dead are no more or less honorable than the war dead of the countries we have fought over the years. I was going to track down the total number of casualties of any kind from all the foreign wars the U.S. has waged in the last century. I was going to sum it all up by saying that all war is bad and should be avoided even as a defensive measure.

But instead, I want to tell you the story of a man I know.

He was born in the 1910's. He lived through the great depression. I bet he can remember exactly where he was when he herd that Pearl Harbor had been attacked, just as I can remember exactly where I was when I first heard that an airplane had run into one of the World Trade Center's towers. He was there when FDR instiuted America's first peacetime draft.

So were many others.

But there was one difference: He thought killing was wrong.

He was there when draftees refused to fight. He was there when they were sent to jail. He was there when they were shunned by their families and the American public, while they fought for racial integration in the same prisons in which they were held captive, while they died in prison.

He was there when conscientious objectors were put into work camps, when these conscientious objectors were turned over to the hands of medical science: starved, overexercised, infected with hepatitis.

He read letters sent by angry, self-righteous 'red-blooded Americans':

'I am deeply ashamed that my country can produce such men, if you can call yourselves men. I certainly hope you don't call yourselves Americans, because you're not.'

He saw the U.S. Government-commissioned films: Us or them! It's a fight for our way of life! Have you killed a Jap soldier today? Every tank kills a Jap! Every truck kills a Jap! Every plane kills a Jap!

He was not a coward. He was a red-blooded American. And he wept when two nuclear bombs killed tens of thousands of Japanese civilians.

He is one of the few Americans who registered as conscientious objectors in World War II. He is of a dying breed. Odds are that you don't know him. He scarcely exists anymore.

He is my grandfather.

And my great-uncle.

And he is just as much a part of this war as the most seasoned, battle-hardened proffessional killer.

Dave Dellinger, a leader of the conscientious objector movement in World War II and an antiwar activist in the Vietnam era, died several weeks ago at the age of 87.

Over 16 million Americans served in the armed forces in World War II. Only 42,000 Americans registered as conscientious objectors.

War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today.

- John Fitzgerald Kennedy

For more information on this topic, watch PBS's documentary The Good War— And Those Who Refused to Fight It.

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I'm an atheist/moralist.

My parents were hippies. Both my grandfathers were Mennonite conscientious objectors in WWII. It's complicated.
 
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