Noahs ark found

You can stick with your acceptance of a book written and translated by hundreds of people with "human" or "worldly" intentions... its funny that the word of god always is coming from humans, in particular men...

and in regard to "precise historical events" anyone can embellish fact and turn it into a fantastic didactic tale...
 
I would like to think that you could come up with a better argument than just Shit happens....The odds of Shit just happening and Bing here we are today as fully functioning human beings rounds down to 0....If we are here because of shit happening based on those odds then by now I would have won the lottery, been struck by lightning and lived to tell about it, been attacked by a shark, and filled out a perfect NCAA bracket. Sorry but saying shit happens doesnt hold much weight
 
well let's start with something like the big bang theory:
before time, there was nothing. then nothing exploded and created the universe?

to me, a massive flood seems a tad bit more believable.
 
It's all probability of shit happening correctly. Think of all the other planets that have no life. Think of all the parallel universes in which life didn't occur. There are an infinite number.
 
Well then a boat could have been 1,000 feet higher back then couldn't it? If you're going to call someone a fucking idiot, try to at least not be a moron yourself.
But anyways, if you're still arguing about religion in this thread....you're intelligence speaks for itself.
 
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Humans are just naturally way to cocky, we think that there must be some "god" watching our every move and picking our lives apart. Ye obviously we were made by something. whether its being, and how it functions is relavent to us, I'm not sure. But we're obviously not very intelligent, or atleast ignorant to the fact that if there was some sort of god, he would remember the past as he remembers the future, because time is only something we percieve. Same with colour, smell and touch. its not the world around us. its the world thats in your head. So anyway, if he is all knowing (meaning down to every last particle and atom) he would know exactly how everything in the universe falls into place. therefore, he needs not watch over us because everything is pre-determined technically, I'm reaaly high but that makes sense to me.
 
Dude, they didn't have to bring food with them god dropped it from the sky or somethin' duh.

Oh, and that article was so accurate, I bet they even took into account how inaccurate carbon dating is within the last few thousand years..
 
The problem with arguing with religious people is that they have a very poor understanding of logic.

Regardless of how unlikely it is that we are here by "chance", it is still more likely than the fact that an omnipotent God created us.

You claim that the big bang and whatnot is so unlikely, and you ask what happened before it etc etc. Yet you simply accept that there is this supernatural being whose existence is impossible to prove, who is all powerful, listens to our prayers, and knows everything. How can you seriously claim that the existence of such a being is more likely than any other, non-supernatural explaination for the existence of our universe?

You have to realize that any explaination for anything that envokes the existence of something supernatural (as in, not part of our physical universe, and therefore impossible to test for the existence of) is automatically invalid when compared to even the most outlandish explanation that is at least testable in theory.
 
haha thanks for defending me man, i like how everyone assumes i believe in the ark all because of that post too.. just thought he should use some logic on where that water could have gone, that is all.
 
whichever side you believe creation or big bang, it takes faith

From a Big Bang side you have to have faith that something came out of nothing, and then from there where did that nothing come from is the question(Just stating the fact not tryin to argue it)

From a Creation side you have to ask where did God come from?

The Bible says God is and always was, it's too difficult for our human minds to comprehend so I dont even try....But if you look at it from a creation standpoint there are a ton of evidences which point to Intelligent design such as DNA for example, it contains so much memory wound into every strand it blows my mind....short version: either way whichever you choose it takes faith and I like to put my faith on the side that we are here for a purpose and not here by chance.....
 
Define fact for us then, because what you just stated is tremendous Bullshit.

The Big Bang theory doesnt suppose an answer to the question of why were are here. It doesnt take faith, unless you really need belief to validate scientific process, instead of, oh, scientific process. Its the best answer that explains all the known universe based on the evidence and examples we currently have.

Science doesnt require 'faith'. If I wanted to, I could perform an experiment, as people have done in the past, to test the idea and figure out if my idea is right or wrong. Belief means fuck whatever the evidence and reasonable explanations point to, I can pick and choose from it at will if I want to support my idea.
 
Once again, you simply demonstrate a complete lack of any sort of scienfic knowledge, which explains your ridiculous beleifs.

DNA is evidence of evolution, not creation. I suggest you take a biology class before dicussing this matter further.
 
Actually it is known that something can come out of nothing.
And it can, and has been tested, many times.
One of the prediction that comes out of quantum theory (and in particular Heisenberg's uncertainty principle) is that matter and antimatter pairs with equal and opposite properties and momentums will spontaneously appear in a vacuum and then combine back together and annihilate each other (thus the laws of thermodynamics are conserved). This effect gives rise to what is sometimes called 'quantum foam'. It is most commonly explored in a lab through the Casimir effect. The net implication is that there is no such thing as 'nothing' as material spontaneously appears and disappears in a vacuum.
Normally this is of no consequence but the effect can give rise to net balances of matter (or anti-matter for that matter) in the presence of very strong gravitational fields. Hawking radiation is the most famous example of how this might manifest (although its a ball ache to investigate, but fortunatelY the LHC at CERN's getting going so it well be easier to examine these sort of things in the coming years.
Net result, there is no need for a 'God' or any other creative force in order for matter to exist. That doesn't mean he doesn't exist (obviously), it just means that he doesn't need to exist for our Universe to exist.

 
Actually this is the opposite of Science.
The fundamental principal of Science is to develop a better understanding of why things happen. In order to come up with a better understanding you must first assume that your current understanding is wrong.
The starting position of faith is that you are always right. If you assume that your beliefs are correct then it follows that you can't improve upon them or change them as they are fundamentally right to start with. Science assumes that you are always wrong and as a result there is always room for improvement. This is the fundamental axiom of the Scientific process and as such having 'faith' in a theory is fundamentally incompatible with the scientific process.
 
I'm sorry but no matter how you word or try to explain it the big bang theory is too far fetched and has too many problems to believe....Where did all the matter we have in the universe come from? If there was nothing in the beginning then the big bang obviously violates the 1st Law of Thermodynamics (Conservation of Energy) which states that energy can be transformed (changed from one form to another), but cannot be created or destroyed. In order for the Big Bang to succeed it has to either one break this law or two energy would already have to be present which leads to where did that energy come from? It is a theory for a reason
 
Read above dude, Alex has it right. In addition;

science-vs-faith.png


We have not arrived at the Big Bang in satisfaction. It doesnt explain anything about how the universe began. Its not the end all solution to anything. When we turn the clock backwards on all the astronomical interactions we can see, everything contracts into a singularity. Does anyone have any idea why or how it was created? Hell no. The questions open ended, without answer. Frankly, we might never know how our universe began, the evidence to support a valid theory might not be attainable - you cant go back and observe a universe forming, as far as we know.

But the lack of a definitive answer should not allow one to fill in the gap with whatever nonsense they dream up, be it aliens, Zoey Deschanel or deities. Have fun leading others in your magical game of circular arguments and insular thinking, the world always needs its fools.
 
And to those of us non-believers if you may the story of Noah's Ark is too far fetched with too many holes to understand. As is that of John and Mary.... a Virgin has a baby...... yeah, the angels did it I swear.
 
See my earlier post about quantum foam and why matter can spontaneously exist wtihout violating the laws of thrmodynamics (and how it can be tested in a lab).

Your statement of the law of thermodyanimcics is correct but you've misunderstood its limitations. The laws of thermodynamics relate to heat exchange (hence the 'thermo' bit) on a bulk scale.

There are a variety of means by which matter can spontaneoulsy exist without breaking the fundamental laws of physics as we know them. I've gone with an example thats familiar to me (solid state physics/mechanics is a fundamental aspect of Materials Science, my undergraduate degree). There a bunch of other processes in quantum mechanics and higher dimenisonal theories that allow for the spontaneous creation of matter (although I've never needed to use them).
 
the fact that they think they found that boat that once held 2 of EVERY species in the planet is pretty funny....that i just can't believe

it's pretty interesting that they found planks in the mountains though, i wanna know what they were from
 
He's a fool for having faith? So you both don't know the answer, but the one who finds something that comforts him and helps him find a drive to live is foolish? Without "filling in the gaps" it can be hard for some people to accept that we may exist for the sole purpose of existing, and I think anyone who finds a way to cope with our natural ignorance to excel shouldn't be patronized for it.
 
BUUUUUUUT:

he can go to times square (maybe a bad example right now) and scream "i believe in god. jesus is my savior." and everyone applauds him.

but if someone goes there and shouts "the bible has no religious value. christianity is one of millions religions and there is no evidence for the existence of god." you get fucked, hard, you could have problems getting a job, etc.

thats the main difference. of course its dumb to bash on each others, but christians should have to explain why they believe in a carpenter. atheists/humanists should be considered "normal" and any other worldview would need justification. right now, christianity (western world) is the "main standard" and everyone else has to justify his opinion.
 
there's a significant difference between having faith to cope with your experiences and having a blinding religious faith that revolves around a check, cashable only after death.

What is it, in religious faith, that is necessary to excel, or to find meaning? What I mean to ask is what can't you explain without religion?

 
This is nothing new, people have been looking on that mountain and various other places for years now seeking the ark. They all find a petrified piece of wood, flip out, and then never find anything else.
 
Arguing this is fucking retarded because it depends entirely on weather you are catholic, protestant, lutheran, calvinist, mormon, etc.
Judging on your interpretation you were raised Protestant.
All of you religious people are dumb lol. "God is found not in houses of stone, nor of wood, but in a temple of flesh and blood." - Me, right now (1497)
 
And you do realize people think that the fight for Helen was real too right? People have said they found the lost city of Troy in the Middle East and in Europe near the Celts and other shit too.
 
thousands of years old on top of a mountain??

ya some guy must have just put it there and said it was the ark....
 
I can guarantee none of you are smart enough to argue either way, and neither am I. I have debated religion way too much in my life, and all i can say is there are people out there on both sides of the argument that could destroy, own, mutaliate, pwn, and embarass all of you for your arguments posted on both sides. So please shut the fuck up, no one arguing in this thread has proven to be that smart, get over yourselves.

If anyone isnt too thick headed and wants some books to start reading about the topic of religion, then read Lee Strobles books such as "The Case for Christ" and "The Case for Faith", the book "A case against Lee Stroble"(something along those lines), Anothny Flew's books such as "There is no/a God" and there are many others.
 
Tell me how you know that? No one has ever asked Homer that? What would have happened if he got 9 or 10 of his buddies to all contribute to the book and then spread the rumor that all of it was true. A few thousand years later people might not have the proof to disprove his book...see where I'm going with this???
 
I am just curious, can you please throw out some arguments for the existence of God that cannot easily be refuted by a first year philosophy student.
 
With this argument, you know you're supporting the idea of an unthinking society, where individualism and questioning knowledge is quashed, right?

Okay, a bit of an extreme, sure. But seriously, I've got to disagree. The only thing people need is access to knowledge. I'm sure there are people out there that dont give a rats ass about biology or astronomy or anything of the sort, and want to live with their heads down, following whatever their parents and friends tell them. But there are individuals out there, like me, who want to know answers to our own question. It would be easier to believe everything I was told, but that would have me believing in some very strange things, especially if I hung around insane asylums, would it not?
 
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