No Arguing Here...Just a question about Mormons

Kevo

Active member
So, most people will tell you that to be a Christian, all you have to do is believe that Jesus died for you and accept him as your savior. (One could argue with this, try to change a few words and make it better, but let it go, it is no the point) My question is this- is there a fundamental belief that makes someone a Mormon, like one thing or a few things that you have to believe to be one besides the regular Christian thing?
 
Mormons aren't Christians. They claim to follow God, but they are just absurd. They beleive in these Golden Tablet texts made by John Smith. And then they have a couple other books to, but they are all just crap. They believe the more good deeds you do the better you are treated in heaven, which is weird because in the mormon beleive, you get to have your own planet and be God of it, and the better mormon you are the more you are given.
 
I think they believe that John Smith (I think that's his name) met with either God or Jesus somewhere in America within the last century or two. And there's something in it about how Jesus travelled the world after his resurection and came to the natives in america and went to Asia and all over. I'm not a mormon but I've spoken with a couple maybe a year or so ago. That's all I remember. Anyways, Mormons are kindof condescending in that they think that all of the other sects of Christianity have twisted the word of God and that Mormons are the only ones that know His true meaning. They think that they have been put here to spread the word and save people from damnation. The thing I hate is when they tell you that now you know and must make the right choice other wise you go to hell. They offered to friggen baptize me because my original baptism doesn't count or some shit. I almost kicked the fucker in the teeth.
 
i wrote this a couple years ago. use the search bar if you want to read it in contxt. the thread was called "what is a mormon"

this is pretty well accurate as far as i can figure.

as far as being christian, the LDS church (mormons) believes in Christ, as chronicled in the New Testament. were as Christian as you can possibly get if you want to use that definition.

heres the rest of my thread from a year or two ago.

joseph smith was tried and convicted probably more times than any other historical figure i can think of off the top of my head... keep in mind, though, that the nature of the charges that he was tried for were completley falsified and scurrilous. satanic arts? not so sure about that one. never heard of it before. does anyone find it unusual that a kid, who was 14 years old at the start of it all was able to produce a book, over 500 pages in lenth, over the span of 10 or so years, being pursued by mobs who wanted to kill him, across 6 states, only to be murdered at the end of it all. the book of mormon introduced more proper nouns into the english language than did all of shakespeares works combined. is it odd that this could be accomplished by someone with a third grade education? teams of scholars couldnt match this work in terms of its corrospondance with the old and new testiment, not to mention the continuity of the work itself. the book of mormon is a compilation of writings that spans the years of roughly 600 bce to 435 ad or so. it includes writings by dozends of different authors, all of whom have distinct writing styles that are preceivable throughout the text. certain literaty forms that appear in the biblical texts that are exclusive to hebrew writing are found in the book of mormon. point being that there is NO WAY that this could have been writen by some random teenager/twentysomthing from upstate new york. anyone who has read it could tell you that.

the whole idea behind the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS/Mormons) is that it is a restoration of the chruch that was originaly established among the Isrealites in old testament times. beleive it or not, the bible supports the LDS church as much as anything. the old and new Testaments are every bit as important in the church as is the Book Of Mormon. They teach the same ideas, namely the teachings of Jesus.

after Christ lived and died, the church was left in the hands of the Apostles. (ie peter james john, matthias, etc) the apostles went abroad spreading the message of christianity. eventually they were always traveling, and communitcated with the fledgling church via letters, or epistles, which comprise much of the new testament. in time, every single apostle was martyred. the church became the subject of dipute, and a means of control and gain at the hands of men whos motives were less than christ like. this process was a falling away from the church that Christ set up. in ephesians paul talks about a church whos foundation was upon apostles and prophets, who were privy to inspiration from God. this clearly ended no more than three hundred years after the Death of Christ. practices such as the sale of indulgences and the false doctorine of supererogation began to infiltrate the church, and corrupt it from within. durring the dark ages direct revelation was clearly not in control of the Church. then, in the late upper renaissance, one of the most pivitol events in all of world history occured, namely the protestant reformation. The uninspired ways of the Catholic church led reformers such as Calvin, Wycliffe, and most famously Martin Luther, to cry out against the uninspired practices that were taking place. They could read the scriptures, and see that the existing church lacked inspired leadership. they saw that the lure of money corrupted clergymen. We all know about Luthers little list that he nailed to the door of his church.

as this reformation broke the strangle hold that the Catholics had had on the European people, politics, and everyday life, things began to change. The discovery of the New World, and the subsequent founding of America laid the next stones in the way to a complete restoration of Christs church. Now there was a land where Religious variation was tolerated. If Joseph Smith had live in Europe in the middle ages, no way would there be an LDS church today. America made it possible. In the early 1800's the time was at hand.

Joseph Smith was called as the first prophet of the restoration. Prophets have always had certain jobs to do. Moses had to deliver the Isrealites from Egypt. Noah was to preserve his family thought the flood, Isiah was to preach of Christ. Joseph Smith was to restore the entirety of the Gospel, as it had existed with the children of Isreal in the Siani wilderness, as it had existed with Elijah, Isiah, Christ, and Paul. the ordinances of Baptism and confirmation were reinstated, as well as temple rites that had existed in the time of the Tabernacle in the wilderness. A church structure was put together identicle to the one that Christ himself had set up in the maridian of time, based on 'apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers' (ephesians 4:11) no other church today even claims to be structured this way. this being the case, there are really only three churches that are worth looking at, as far as Christianity is concerned, if you want a church that has a legitimate claim to the entire truth. you have either the catholics, based on the fact that they have existed in one form or another since the time of Christ, you have the Orthodox Christians, who have also exisited since that time, and you have the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, who claim to be a restoration of that original church that had been taken from the earth for a time. (this was foretold in the new testiment, in 2 thessolnians 2:3 '...for that day shall not come (the second coming of Christ) except there come a falling away first...' Paul foresaw an apostasy from the truth. it happened. its now over. that is the claim of the Mormons.

Now for the Book of Mormon itself. I have already said a little about its technical features.

the book is, as i said, a compilation of writings that starts with a guy named Lehi who lived in jeruselem approx 600 Bc, makeing him a contemporary of the biblical prophet Jeramiah. if youve read the writings of Jerimiah, you know that Jeruselm was in pretty bad shape, morally speaking at the time. Lehi was commanded by God to take his family and flee the city. They left with all their belongings, and with another family, treked through the arabian wilderness for 8 years or so, finally coming to the sea in what would likley be modern day Yemen, on the southern part of the penensula. there, they constructed a ship for the better part of a few years, and then set to sea. they eventually made it to what is generally agreed upon as panama, or perhaps around guatamala, from the provided descriptions. (its funny, as there is an in depth description of the isthmus, and both seas that match panama quite well, but you know, kids in upstate NY in 1820 knew all about panama, so its an obvious forgery) anyhow, the rest of the book chronicles the people that descended from those two families over the next 800-1000 years. the key point in the book, being a visitation by Christ, durring the space after the ressurection. It is stated in the book of John in the New Testament 'other sheep i have, which are not of this fold: them also i must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd' (John 10:16) this is commonly interpreted outside the church (by other christian groups) to be refering to the Gentile nations that christs apostles eventually went to preach to. It must be noted, however, that they gentiles never heard Christs voice, as he never preched to them personally. He did, however, preach personally to the People in the Americas, after his ascention into heaven, as chronicled in Acts Ch.2. Chist appears to the people, preaches much of the same doctorine that he had preached in Judea, and then ascends again into heaven. the Book of Mormon follows these people for another 400 years or so, until they are overrun by other indiginous peoples, and killed.

if any of you are familiar with the early american history, you have certainly heard the story of Hernan Cortez, the man who waltzed into town, and had his way wherever he pleased. This is attributed to the fact that the Aztecs people thought that he was Quetelcotal, or a great white priest that was to return, acording to legend. There are also pockets of Native peoples in Guatamala that are unusually fair skinned, in comparison to the other indiginous peoples there. there are ruins in central america that match cites described in the Book of Mormon, that were not discovered for years after the books publication.

for a more detailed look at this kind of thing check out

http://farms.byu.edu/

anyhow, the Book of Mormon, in my estimation could not be a fraudulent document. its a veritable impossibility, taking into account when it was produced, and by whom.

the real point of the Book, however, is that it teaches of Christ. The Old and New Testaments teach of Christ. That is what Mormons are all about. Jesus Christ. he is the center of it all. without him, there would be no church. We beleive, as many christian denomonations do, that he is our Savior, and sole means of salvation.

so to close breifly, Joseph Smith was killed, along with his brother in 1844 in Illonois. after that, Brigham Young became the succeeding prophet, and president of the church, and led the majority of the church faithfull across the plains to Utah, where they established SLC, this was, no doubt inspired, not becuase of the proximity to good farmland, or anything else, but because God is, undoubtedly a skier, and he knew that the biggest favor he could do for his people was to plant them at the mouth of Little Cottonwood canyon, so that generations in the future would be able to get burried in the greatest snow on earth.

anyways, that is my concises history of Mormonism. if anyone has anymore questions, post them, and i will try and answer them as well as i can.
 
mormons are mormons......just like the sky is blue... who cares?..........inmy moind mormons arecool they are theonly people who say that dont think everyother relgion is wrong except for theres
 
Where did you come up with that? Maybe the mormons I met were crazy but they showed me drawings and graphs about how since Jesus came two thousand years ago people have been straying farther and farther away from the word of God and how that their mission in life is to show people the truth as told in the book of mormon.
 
For the last fucking time, it's Joseph Smith, not John Smith.

And no matter what else you might say about Mormons and what they believe, you must always bear one thing in mind: At least it makes more sense than scientology.
 
alot of things said in the book of mormon or whatever completly controdick the bible, the religion as a whole makes no sense, like getting ur on planet and being a gad, when in the bible its says many many many many many times there is only one true god i mean come on
 
mormons are christians

the name of thier church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

they believe that Jesus is their savior.

They believe in the bible. which is a record of the teachings of Jesus Christ in the old world

They also believe in the Book of Mormon which is a record of the people in Ancient Americas and thier teachings of Jesus Christ
 
Come on now. That was about 500 yards from right. If you're going to slaughter the language that badly just don't bother using it.
 
i live with these people *im in draper utah* i believe that for the most part what there trying to do is kinda good, i mean whats wrong iwith making people try to be good a righteuous people... but then again i fucking hate it. they are so fake and its impossible to be as perfect as they try to be.... it makes them fucking hate themselfs cuz there "failures" oh and women cant be god of a earth... only men...

i say somethings they do are good but for the most part i fucking hate them.
 
actually she married john rolfe. the guy that pretty much saved jamestown by bringing in tobacco from the west indies.
 
i know a retard who wrote this sci fi novel that was like 400 pages long, and it was on 8.5x11 paper and in size 12 font.

it made as much sense as the book of mormon but it was a sci fi novel instead of faux historical documentation.

lds is a cult.
 
hey im actually an ex mormon i used to go i find them more of a cult trying to control u wrather than a religion in which u follow you cant drink you cant drink coffee you cant smoke ciggeretes you cant swear pretty much u have to live life by the book of mormon or ur kicked out so ya it was gay
 
It really pisses me off at school when people are like "hey mormom!" "hey christian!" "hey native!" it really just bothers me, dont know why. Some people think its funny i think its dumb
 
every religion is a cult. some are just more successful than others.

as far as the kid complaining about how the church makes you do this, or forces you to do that... you dont have to do anything.

ive been a mormon, admittedly forever. my ancestors crossed the plains and all that. and so far i only have a couple complaints.

ive never been able to be an alcaholic, ive never been allowed to contract an std, ive never been aloud to become a drug addict, and that kind of thing.

do you get kicked out for doing pot or drinking? nope. for doing anything really? no.

about the only thing that gets you booted is if you go around activley trying to destroy the church, or take part in activities or organizations that activley persacute the church, in which case i dont think youd really care about getting kicked out.

every single thing in the church is voluntary.

now, there is a cultral side that you find especially in utah that can be pretty negative, but it has nothing to do with the actual doctrines. mormons can get cliqish just like any other people. if youre a non mormon moving into the draper or pleasant grove or some place in utah like that its no different than if youre a white kid moving to harlem, or a black kid moving to... somewhere really white. by simple virtue of the fact that youre different, there will be discrimination. not by all, but by some. its too bad if you let those people define the doctrine.

to end, i think that theres been a ton of gross oversimplifacation, generalizaion, and inaccurate representation from people who have "talked with a mormon a few years ago" or "taken a class in high school" on it.

if any of you want the facts im probably the person on here who will give you the most accurate info. i live in utah, but grew up in california (till i was 22) outside the utah mormon bubble and can totally relate to people who live in utah, or who visit here and are put off by how some mormons act. you have to remember that mormons are people. and people are realitivley the same.

from what i can recall in the handfull of mormon threads that have poped up here and there, no one aside from myself and maybe a few others have ever had their facts stright... so im happy to act as some kind of mormon ambassador to NS if anyone wants information thats not second hand regurgitations of inaccurate opinion.
 
theres a whole south park episode on this topic... to be mormon to be a fucking retard scientology fucking stupid most these religions are pretty dumb just read the bible koran and all that stuff theres so many points that are hipocritcal and such

 
Here are a few of my thoughts regarding your post.

“does anyone find it unusual that a kid, who was 14 years

old at the start of it all was able to produce a book, over 500 pages in lenth,

over the span of 10 or so years, being pursued by mobs who wanted to kill him,

across 6 states, only to be murdered at the end of it all.”


It’s not surprising. Joseph Smith was 25 years old when he

published the Book of Mormon. It wasn’t until after the book was published that

Smith began to be greatly persecuted. Your statement also begs the question:

what is easier, writing a story, or translating an encoded story? Anybody who

has written a story and taken a foreign language class knows the answer.

“it includes writings by dozends of different authors, all

of whom have distinct writing styles that are preceivable throughout the text.”



This is a statement that is largely debated by literary

scholars. The general consensus is no, the Book of Mormon does not contain

dozens of different writing styles.

This IRR article cites dozens of independent literary studies.

http://www.irr.org/MIT/marquardt-bom1a.html

“Joseph Smith was called as the first prophet of the

restoration. Prophets have always had certain jobs to do. Moses had to deliver

the Isrealites from Egypt.

Noah was to preserve his family thought the flood, Isiah was to preach of

Christ.”



Christianity and Mormonism don't consider Moses and Noah to be prophets. This is an insignificant point, but I thought I'd point it out.

“It must be noted, however, that they gentiles never heard

Christs voice, as he never preched to them personally.”



I’m not entirely sure what you mean in this sentence, but

Biblical stories are full of Christ preaching to Gentiles.

The rest is an accurate synopsis of the historical parts

of the Book of Mormon. What I don’t understand is the practices of the Church.

Why all the secrecy? Why is it that every time one of the LDS doctrines becomes

overwhelmingly unpolitically correct (the denial of blacks in the LDS Church,

polygamy, drinking caffenated beverages...), someone has a revelation and the doctrine is changed?

Why aren’t LDS kids allowed to know that God was once a human, or the secret heavenly handshakes, or the secret passwords to heaven,

or their heavenly name, or that it's possible to become a god until a secret Endowment Ceremony. Why isn't this info available to the public? Why aren’t non-Mormon

people allowed to inside Temples?

Why can’t non-Mormon people attend any of the various Mormon ceremonies or

marriages? What’s the purpose of

the holy underwear?

I think the LDS

Church is doing some very

great things for the world, but man, there are a lot of really strange

questions surrounding Mormonism.
 
i brought the thread to life when our "make mormons look like idiots/retards/assholes" thread was deleted.

its true that all religions are essentially cults, but i think the key is to find a religion whose historical texts are more plausible than laughable.

and if you are into new age stuff, cool

go for it.

but please think about Joseph Smith, and the facts surrounding mormonism.

and just realize that anything a mormon says on this site is the info the mormon church has cleared them to know about.

mormonism is shrouded in secrecy and non-mormons will NEVER know everything that goes on in there retarded temples.

they are not christians, but i can understand how people can be sucked in/misguided by the church.

mormons are all nice people and the church claims they are christian.

but this is not the case.

i am sorry i am so angry about the mormon church, but in my opinion they are leading countless people astray, and the religion is ridiculous.
 
you can find one hundred percent of anything that goes on in your local public library id bet. theres been more than a handfull of discontented ex mormons who have published the whole ceremony... so, not so secret.

and as far as having texts that are credible... if youre going to tell me that youll believe the bible, but think the book of mormon is crazy, youve probably never read either. theyre pretty well the same as far as believability goes. if anything the bible has way more crazy stuff that would strech for the logical thinker to believe than the book of mormon does... i mean... were talking donkeys that speak here. the old testament takes the cake for wild stories.

so really, nothing in the mormon theology is any stranger than what youre going to find in the bible.

and to the other guy who took issue with a few of my points, Joseph Smith was pretty heavily persacuted throughout his life, from the time that he began to claim that he had a heavenly vision to the time that he was shot to death because of it... durring the translation of the book he had to move several times, was tarred and feathered, beaten etc. so as far as the claim that he wasnt heavily persacuted until after the publishing of the book... id say youre off base.

as for the question over whether there were variations in writing, ive read the book, and can tell a marked difference in the writting of the seperate authors. if you want articles that would counter the one you posted, go to the link in my original post.

now, haggard, why the hate? did you get the beat down from a mormon kid at school, or are you just bored? seriously, you trying to make hate threads about a religious group seems to remind me of something else... oh yeah, hitler. he would probably approve of youre baseless random hating.
 
and to add to my first thought... after looking through the "institute for religious research" page, i can see exactly where youre coming from.
 
they also believe that the golden statue on the temple is going to come alive tooting his horn and fly around SLC saving all the mormons... they also have alittle thing call poligamy(speling its late so gimme a break)... they also dont like to party and if they do they have fun dr.pepper parties, oh wait they cant drink anything with caffeine but they own pepsi or have some owner ship in pepsi so its ok for them to drink it... if u believe in the mormon religion u should also believe in the little mermaid
 
not to mention he was kicked out of what 6 states? it must suck to be a mormon... no sex, no fun, weird underwear, having sex infront of you family to prove the girls a virgin... must suck..thank god im not a brainwashed moron...mormon my bad
 
man you've been able to become any of those things, don't think that your religion saved you from that it was your choices.
 
1. i said NOTHING about content of the text. i simply stated that the source should be more credible than one troubled man.

2. joseph smith was shot to death because he was trying to escape from prison. he was jailed for polygamy. you make him sound like a martyr, when in fact he was probably closer to what today we would call a registered sex offender.

3. i simply want to further the knowledge that LDS is a cult. too many good people, including yourself, are sucked into this psuedo-religion and dont really realize how whack you are because the theology is all based off of the bible. the problem is that Joseph Smith added a bunch of stuff tot he bible that really had no pupose other than to justify his lifestyle.
 
I, on the other hand, have been allowed to be those things and many others. The thing is that I haven't because I have my own self control and I am capable of making intelligent decisions. I don't need a religion to tell me what I can and cannot do. I also don't need a religion to validate my choices. I am strong enough that I can justify my choices to myself and to my peers. Really, it just comes down to whether or not you have the testicular fortitude to stand up for yourself or if you need a religion to do it for you.
 
ps: like i said, i am pissed off at MORMONISM. not mormons. as i have said before i understand how one could get sucked in, it seems legit from the outside. i am sorry if i came off hitler-ish, but the fact of the matter is i want to see the religion lose its legitimacy in the eyes of the general public, if it hasnt already. i am not going around beating up LDS kids, i simply hate the "religion"
 
i agree with you about halfway...

i raised christian, but i wouldnt say it was a very strong christian household, not by most of our friend's standards.

these kids were homeschooled and taught to hate anything "worldly"

oddly enough, my friends started drinking before me (i have still never been drunk) and smoking (weed) before me.

part of why i dont drink or smoke (YET) is because of the belief instilled in me from an early age that both of those things are inherently wrong.

but thats not quite enough if you look at my friends.

somehow out of all the kids from our highschool youthgroup i am the only one who hasnt drank or gotten high.

why?

BECAUSE I DIDNT LEAVE IT UP TO SOME BOOK.

yes.its the bible.

i believe it was inspired by God.

but.

those are words.

and we are people.

and people fail.

i left it up to every single adult around me telling me that alchohol and weed are not worth the risk. i left it up to the memory of family members whose lives wen to shit because of these substances.

so.

i dunno.

i dont think religions can control you.

in the end.

its up to you to find a way.

the religion might suggest ways to live better/healthier/whatever, but only CULTS can brainwash you.

 
im going to assume that youre going to maintain that mormonism is somehow different than any other religion, and that it somehow falls into "cult" status. even though i think we already figured out that all religions are cults.

is islam a cult? by your standards you would have to say yes. they are much more fanantical than mormons.

are evangelical christians cult memebers? by your standards you would have to say yes. if you dont think that some evangelicals can be way more fanantical than pretty much anyone short of jihadists, i would refer you to this little film:

http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/

that to me is one hundred times more fanatical, scary, and unnerving than anything you will ever come across in mormon theology. by far. if youre going to apply you oh-so-well thought out criteria that only cults can "brainwash" you, the it looks like americas being guided by cult members at the highest levels.

if youre to apply your logic to all religions then buddhism is a cult, as are probably all eastern religions.

now i dont want you to think that im anti-born agains, or anti muslim, or anything like that.

i simply want you to understand that you clever little way of trying to lable some religions cults and others not, well, its so off base its laughable.

either all relgions are cults or none are.

there are segments of all religions who take their beliefs and convictions to scary levels. whether their jihadists, Jesus campers, or hard line mormons. they all take the theology out of context, and in general give a bad name to the normoal folks who happen to be of the same faith.

 
by this i mean that there are Muslims who take their religion to extremes way beyond pretty much any other religion. not that all Muslims are fanatical.

just wanted to clear that up.
 
there should be a religion cult for these kind of threads. Some peoples posts are essays more or less..
 
from what ive been reading it seems that its you against the rest of newschoolers. Im suer there are more mormons on newschool but.. you getting your ass kicked... and i hate mormon... which in return i hate you... which in return i hate your religion which in return all mormons should die and go to hell.
 
alright first of all mormons hate themselves way less than most other religions. They're happy people (for the most part, there are some nazi-ish type people though, there is in every religion though) Mormons only try to do their very best and believe that if they do what they can christ will make up the rest of it for them.

The main difference between mormons and other forms of christianity is that mormons don't belive god to be omnipotent, they believe he is a man of flesh, Jesus Christ is a seperate being from God and the holy ghost is a spirit (one of us) who made the sacrifice to never recieve a body to help us.

I know all this cause I was raised mormon
 
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