New light shed on Bill Clinton...

"and we aren't hijacking planes and holding people hostage or crashing them into buildings there is a very fine line between military action and terrorism...we are using military action and nothing else i agree that we are liberating iraq and our intentions are good"

So the United States can use military force to take over a country in the name of 'democracy' and 'free trade', or supply weapons and training to internal groups that will achieve the same goal. This will ultimatley be better for the inhabitants of those countries because we think they'll like it better once they get used to it? The US has done this in Nicaragua, Afghanistan, Cuba, Indonesia, etc. For a while, anything remotly socialist was a threat to western civilization. It's ok because the US has a military and their intentions are good?

So if Afghanistan, Cuba, and Nicaraugua, (and other countries that the US has either taken by force, or supported groups that took the country by force) suddenly got hold of a powerful army, and decided to bomb the US in the belief that they were 'freeing' the American people from the undemocratic Bush government and preventing the spread of neoliberalism thoughout the world, it would be justified? They would genuinly believer that they are doing good for the American people and the world. Would those actions be justified?

I'm not speaking specifically about US intervention in Afghanistan or Iraq, but speaking with regard to the wide range of similar actions the US has taken in the last half century, most of which aren't reported on by US media.

member number 1981
The FDA is bad.
 
dude you are a fucking moron, how in christs name do you know that bush doesnt make any descisions on his own, are you in the whitehouse 24/7 next to him? And to the kid who said the little thing about bushs oil fortune being the same as kerry's wifes ketchup fortune. That is totally different. First of all, that Fortune belongs to Kerry's WIFE, not him. And Bush's oil fortune belongs to he and his family, not his wife. What this says is that Bush and his family worked fuckin hard to carve out a nice place for themselves and all kerry did was coast on his wifes fortune. without her, i woulndt be surprised if he was laying on his ass under a bridge looking for money to buy booze with.

And you cannot even deny that Kerry was a flip flop because he truly and completely was. He went back on himself in so many areas. Back before he ran for pres, he voted no on the GI protection bill thingy that was aimed at getting Soldiers better protection with bulletproof vests and shit, and then during the race, all he did was complain about how badly equipped our troops are. That fuckass voted against giving them the shit they needed. When it comes down to it, i choose bush because he takes action. Bush went to the UN, but he did not wait for the approval of EVERYONE, when he felt he had sufficient support, he went in. After 9/11, if kerry was pres, we would not have taken immediate action. Kerry would have went to seek out a unanimous descision from the UN on whether or not we have the right as a country to retaliate. you go in and get as much support as you can, and if the others dont want in, then fuck em, and thats what bush did.

and to the person who has a loved one in iraq, so do i, and i understand the dangers of being in IRaq. But let me tell you this, if any of you thought that there would be no deaths, you are naive as hell. When you go into war, actually, when you become a soldier during wartime, you are accepting the fact that you are basically dead already. no one can change that, and im sure that your friend and my friend who died knew full well that what they were getting into was mortally dangerous.

The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms!

~patrick henry
 
^right on

-kulpy-

gangsta raps lyrics are all the same, Someone gets shot, someones frontin, someones a wangsta, someones benchpressin, someones makin fried chicken, and the beans dont burn on the grill. You can see that shit in kentucky. Fuck the bronx, deep south bitches-scientist
 
naw dude i was talking about the kid who said bush has never made a decision on his own.

The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms!

~patrick henry
 
jibber jason you are looking at this all wrong...we didn't do shit in cuba and all of these countries have been in civil wars and in turmoil...you're seriously being so fucking narrow minded on this if someone gathered a large military and attacked America it would no way in hell be justified...ARE WE IN A FUCKING CIVIL WAR? ARE OUR PEOPLE GETTING MURDERED? ARE WE BELOW THE POVERTY LEVEL AS AN AVERAGE? no all of these countries that we have "liberated" were in serious trouble...i mean you really need to understand how horrible living conditions were in these countries...you can't tell me if you were a civilian living in these conditions you wouldn't want it to change? they don't even have basic freedoms...they can't just go on the internet and bitch about something they will never change, and nicaragua wasn't about socialism, go find a book on what really happened and you'll understand there was a decent reason for being there and we aren't controlling nicaragua now are we? we sure as HELL aren't controlling cuba or indonesia? i think next time you might want to pick your reasearch better before you make statements of us being against all socialism

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i am a demublicandepentantomunist
 
and delphi i really don't believe people who join the army believe what they are getting into anymore...i have heard robotic recruiters just spit out these benefits of the army...well im willing to bet the mentality of MOST of the young soldiers going in is i get paid get an education in 3 years and im gone i won't even have to fight...people are always looking for the easy way out and instead of going to college they will just join the army they don't realise that the army OWNS them when they write their name on that piece of paper you have just committed yourself for 3 years...i don't think young people who join the army realize what it is like on the battlefield it's really something to think about before you let some TV ad change your life

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i am a demublicandepentantomunist
 
Why was the US interested in Cuba? What happened there? I want to hear what you think happened and why. Same for Nicaragua.

member number 1981
The FDA is bad.
 
Sorry but Clinton didn't get Iraq out of Kuwait, Bush #41 did. Clinton retaliated on Iraq after it was found by the CIA that Hussein had put a hit out on the first Bush. Clinton also attempted to take out what he believed, along with numerous intelligence sources, was a factory for making chemical weapons (aka WMD, meaning Clinton believed Saddam was making and had WMD). Iraq claimed is was a pharmaceutical factory, but we still Tomohawked the crap out of it in the middle of the night.

Second of all Clinton didn't "gain" respect of the Arab world by his attacks on Iraq. Clinton really only had the "respect" of Arafat by inviting, wining, and dining Arafat on numerous occasions at the White House, in fact no other President had allowed an Arab leader to visit the United States as often as Clinton allowed Arafat. And we allllllllll know what a greeeeeeeat person Arafat was! (eye roll)

Lastly, since Bush has began the battle against terror Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, and Egypt have all hosted their first democratic elections (they followed the ones in Afghanistan). Syria has stopped their admitted production of WMD at Bush's request and the have returned the Lebanon government back to the people of Lebanon after maintaining 30 year military occupation.

Ever major intelligence agency in the world believed Saddam had WMD including Egyptian intelligence. Clinton also believed Saddam had WMD, so did Gore, Kerry, Ted Kennedy, and every other Democrat in the world even before Bush took office. The UN performed a "poor" weapons inspection at best by providing Saddam with about a three month's warning of their intentions. Upon arriving in Iraq the weapons inspection team was still prohibited by the Iraqi government from searching certain areas including some of Saddam's placaces where many believed WMD were being housed or constructed...odd huh? To further the story a UN Inspector has since come forward and said that many nights that were meant to spent inspecting were instead spent in hotel rooms drinking as numerous "trucks" were seen leaving palaces and government facilities heading towards docks by the river. Odd huh? Unfortunately the mainstream media has failed to report this, mostly because they are adamently trying to paint Bush as a "war hungry idiot" and are completely ignoring many crucial facts including Senate Intelligence Committee (bi-partisan) reports that stated that Saddam was trying to buy weapons grade plutonium.

Clinton did have the chance to actually have Bin Laden handed to him by the Sudanese government who at the time had bin Laden knowingly and openly living in their country. The Sudanese offered to turn over bin Laden and Clinton declined the offer. This was stated by Clinton's own version of Karl Rove, Dick Morris.

 
^ excellent information bro, i like your style.

The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms!

~patrick henry
 
and whos fault is that? its the dumbass people that sign up without knowing, thats not bushes fault, its not the army's fault, its not the fucking united states fault, its the people that do it, they mess up on thier own power, if they dont want to be in the army, then dont sign up!

-kulpy-

gangsta raps lyrics are all the same, Someone gets shot, someones frontin, someones a wangsta, someones benchpressin, someones makin fried chicken, and the beans dont burn on the grill. You can see that shit in kentucky. Fuck the bronx, deep south bitches-scientist
 
thank you graves thats my point exactly...but kosovo bosnia and somalia were all just as bad genocide as iraq...they all are in fact the same oppression

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i am a demublicandepentantomunist
 
Bermbuster, most of the people who join the military do so because they don't have the opportunities that most of us --- who are fortunate enough to sit around on internet chat boards and afford to go skiing every winter ---- have. Most of them are looking for a decent paycheck, maybe the opportunity to go to college, and the opportunity to serve their country honorably. Putting the blame for a war on servicemen and women is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Just a note I'd like to make pertaining to a fairly obvious mistake in the first post in this thread- Bill Clinton was not in office on Sept. 11, 2001.

'now i have tendanites in my achelles tendan in my other ancle' - skibrdingbitch
 
ok well most of the people don't have a god damn choice....its eitehr sell fucking crack and go to jail or be mislead into the fact that they will be a hero and there is a large number of black and hispanic military occupants because of the fact that they are mostly inner city 18 year olds who need to find money they are taking the best and cleanest option they have

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i am a demublicandepentantomunist
 
my last comment was directed to the dude who made the point about clinton declining the turning over of osama.

The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms!

~patrick henry
 
service men and women are doing their jobs. they are dying for your country. if you blame them you should be deported.

 
so i while ago i maden a sttoped post like this because on newschoolers all kids end up saying is stupid republican... no ur a stupid democrate and then very rarely people would have good points but not often anyway ns isnt the best place to talk about politics.

Q:whats better than one red head

A: TWO RED HEADS

when the river runs red take the dirt road-turpin
 
Wow people saying clinton can be blamed for the situation we r in now is just ignorance. The only person who can be blamed for this pointless war is Bush himself. But if you wanna blame someone for Osama, maybe do a little research that doesnt just include listening to a radio broadcast, Bin Laden would have been a nobody if the US under regan hadnt supported him. But hey even if Bin Laden never existed there would just be another physco in his place, and Bush would have used him as a BS reason to go to war...And whoever said that bush is the man cause he does whatever he wants and doesnt care what other nations think...I know everyones entitled to ther opinions, but your reatarded. If we lived in a dictatorship I guess that would be ok, but we dont dumbass. And as for not caring what other nations think, yah thatyll get us real far, we'll just piss everyone off and thatyll never come back to bite us in the ass...

********************

Pat

'The deep south? Isn't that the place where the black people are lazy and the white people are just as lazy, but they are mad at the black people for being lazy?'
 
graves that info was 100% accurate to my knowing thank you for clearing things up and whoever brought up the point that we fueled bin laden was also right...reagen gave weapons to taliban and al queda to fight off the russians and the iranians ironically that came back to bite us in the ass

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i am a demublicandepentantomunist
 
jibber jason google "the contras in nicouragua" and read some of the info

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i am a demublicandepentantomunist
 
Delph1-

"No one on this site or on this earth can criticize what he is doing because id like to see you do it better. the enormous pressure would kill any of us."

this statement alone proves how misinformed you are, you claim that bush is working hard under the constant pressure, yet right this moment he is on vacation, and at the end of this vacation he will have spent the most time on leave of any president in two terms, and he has another three years to go.

Also, clinton took several shots at bin laden, and turned down a few opportunities, surely this is better than bush who turned down every single opportunity he had.

Finally, think about this, clinton actually balanced the budget and by the end of his term had actually begun to make progress on the deficit. on the other hand bush has run up the biggest deficits in history. since im guessing none of you conservatives like to pay taxes, you should be outraged that 1/3 of our income taxes go to paying off interest on the debt alone. simple logic proves that we cannot maintain a deficit of this size without damaging our countries economy.

--------------------------------

random fact: my kitty is chasssing the lletteres as I type them./,.,.,.,.,.,,weeeeeeeeeeee eeeee can't catch this, BITCH -SteezePatrol

www.Freeheellife.com
 
haha, yeah, just because you think i couldn't do as good a job as him he gets a free pass to do whatever he wants and i just have to sit and take it. because he's worked soooo hard his whole life to get where he's at.

 
theres no 1 in my name. i love how you like to focus on how bush is on vacation and how clinton lied to the american people outright and blatantly. And if you look at the current figures right now, the economy is on the rise, but iguess you just take the bad shit about a pres and blow it out of proportion.

The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms!

~patrick henry
 
hey how many people here think delphi should suit up and ship out, show em what your made of son, go kill some iraqui freedom haters!

hey graves, if you're really worried about clinton's 'wining and dining' of arafat, you should check out the wining and dining that the US does to Israel, on the tune of a 3 billion dollar allowance per year, thats some serious wining and dining, maybe clinton was trying to make up for that? eh?

and delph1, the fact that 'the economy is on the rise' doesnt really account for the unbelievable tax cuts -in the name of reganomics- that he's given to his top contributors (the weatlthiest 1%). If we took the billions of dollars in tax cuts and invested them in the schooling of the american population, we might not see the countless citizens forced to enter the armed forces as the last resort. And then you wouldnt have to complain about the 'idiots who got themselves into the armed forces'

and me giving heat to delphi's oppinions is because they are ludacris at best. seriously dude, just read the shit the kids writing, its just moronic.

'Has you ever had an abortion? Surely you should try something before you say it is bad. Because I was very anti-Burger King, but then I went there and I had the flame grilled, ain't it, and you know it was like amazing.'-Ali G

 
there is nooo fuckin 1 in my name. and i would gladly suit up and ship out for my country because i love it and i would sacrifice anything i had to help it out. Unlike kids like you who take this for granted.

well I was gonna photoshop her shoulders and head on Ron Jeremy's body, but Im afraid to google images of Ron Jeremy.-tanankaskier

The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms!

~patrick henry
 
and dude, thats called trickle down economics and it has worked for some people. you cant complain about not being benefitted by it either because you are obviously well off. you have a computer and you ski right?

well I was gonna photoshop her shoulders and head on Ron Jeremy's body, but Im afraid to google images of Ron Jeremy.-tanankaskier

The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms!

~patrick henry
 
dude delph1 why dont you then. Im hoping that by tomorrow you can tell us all that you talked to the army recruiter and you're planning on getting shipped out... unless you're only 16 or something and talking out of your asshole...

which is next to your vagina... which has sand in it.

'Has you ever had an abortion? Surely you should try something before you say it is bad. Because I was very anti-Burger King, but then I went there and I had the flame grilled, ain't it, and you know it was like amazing.'-Ali G

 
doghouse he isn't writing stuff that is considered "moronic" maybe you should revisit graves' post...it was quite well written as a matter of fact better written and stated then anything ive seen you write

and the fate of the economy is much more determined by allan greenspan (if you know who he is) so don't be blaming all this shit on bush (once again i am not a suppourter of bush)

and you need to wake up and look around outside of your white populated town

doghouse did you ever stop and think that someone might not be able to have the opportunity to go to school? try to put yourself in someone else's shoes

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No risk, No reward

i am a demublicandepentantomunist

 
ok doghouse, can we stop here and get something straight? THERE IS NO 1 IN MY NAME.

well I was gonna photoshop her shoulders and head on Ron Jeremy's body, but Im afraid to google images of Ron Jeremy.-tanankaskier

The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms!

~patrick henry
 
and i do not see the relivancy of assholes and vaginas in this thread, but those would be a good thing to bring up in the thread about your mom.

well I was gonna photoshop her shoulders and head on Ron Jeremy's body, but Im afraid to google images of Ron Jeremy.-tanankaskier

The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms!

~patrick henry
 
delph1,

trickle down economics (id prefer to call it reganomics) anyway reganomics didnt get me this computer, nice really nice computer hand me down windows 98 crashes all the time computer, but its better than none. No, thankfully my dad went to college after a stint as a hippy in the santa cruz mountains for a year or two, got a masters, and now works for hewlett packard in corvallis oregon as an engineer. and is still a hippy. thats just how it goes here in OREGON, bitch. Anyway trickle down econ only really benifits those in the highest tax brackets, seriously. And honestly im sure my dad, and me, and everyone i know, wouldnt mind paying a few more bucks out of their pockets in taxes so that some kids wont have to bring their own fucking tape to school, or college kids (like myself) will not have to pay so much for tuition. I guess it just boils down to whos more selfish, those willing to give money of their own to help someone else, or those not willing to give any of their money cause they dont want someone else having it... do the math hombre

'Has you ever had an abortion? Surely you should try something before you say it is bad. Because I was very anti-Burger King, but then I went there and I had the flame grilled, ain't it, and you know it was like amazing.'-Ali G

 
he works for hp? that sounds like a sick job and im sure he gets paid a lot, which would put him in the upper echelon of the tax bracket. sorry for the mom thing tho, that was stupid and irrelevant. anyway, im not tryin to diss anyones parents, im just trying to stick up for what i believe in. and im only 17, so 1 more year and ill c about getting into serve my country.

well I was gonna photoshop her shoulders and head on Ron Jeremy's body, but Im afraid to google images of Ron Jeremy.-tanankaskier

The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms!

~patrick henry
 
NO FUCKING SHIT!!, whats your point? i know they go there because its best for them, isnt that what i just said? and i am not blaming the god damn war on them, i am blaming themselves for signing up, if its the best thing for them, good, horray, have fun, but dont try to play the sad card and make everyone feel like they were inocent bystanders and didnt know what they were signing up for cas thats bullshit, everyone knows what war is, and whats going on over there now.

-kulpy-

gangsta raps lyrics are all the same, Someone gets shot, someones frontin, someones a wangsta, someones benchpressin, someones makin fried chicken, and the beans dont burn on the grill. You can see that shit in kentucky. Fuck the bronx, deep south bitches-scientist
 
hey xxxxscreatchhhxxxxxxx

yes, being in college you can take fun classes like macro economics *econ201*, and learn a lot of stuff, fun fun stuff, makes ur brain big.

and XXXXXSCRAAAAAAAATCHXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

you're right, i live in a very WASP town (white anglo saxon prodistant), aka very white. Bend oregon is white and redneck and conservative, graves would LOVE it here.

by the way ive read probably 20 different posts by graves, have researched and shit for like an hour in order to combat him and his right wing views, probably half as much time as he spent reasearching to get back at my posts, anyway dude if youd really like i could write like im writing for the wash post but id rather take er eeeasy. and dude as a matter of fact ive put myself in others shoes all the time, you dont know me do you? id say no. I lived down in southern california after highschool, saw what it was like, put a new perspective of poverty and shit when i went into the ghettos, saw real poverty. Ive never been to another country to view REAL poverty, but trust me id really like to, to attempt to better someone elses life does a lot to a person, thats why i voted for kerry cause i believed he would better more peoples lives than bush, and im gonna stick by my guns on that one. Yes bush 'freed' iraq, he did do some good in that country, by a not so good means, but oh well i guess you cant change the past. this is the rant to end all rants. all im saying is that you dont know me, i dont know you, i dont know delph1, ha, and thus we cant actually talk shit about eachother, all we can do is take what the other says and try to get some image of what the person is like

by the way delph 1, how old are you

'Has you ever had an abortion? Surely you should try something before you say it is bad. Because I was very anti-Burger King, but then I went there and I had the flame grilled, ain't it, and you know it was like amazing.'-Ali G

 
dude berm. i gotta watch some ali g to get my mind off this shit. u with me?

'Has you ever had an abortion? Surely you should try something before you say it is bad. Because I was very anti-Burger King, but then I went there and I had the flame grilled, ain't it, and you know it was like amazing.'-Ali G

 
right on haha, i hate political threads.

-kulpy-

gangsta raps lyrics are all the same, Someone gets shot, someones frontin, someones a wangsta, someones benchpressin, someones makin fried chicken, and the beans dont burn on the grill. You can see that shit in kentucky. Fuck the bronx, deep south bitches-scientist
 
there you go, in the end we're all friends cause none of us snowboard

'Has you ever had an abortion? Surely you should try something before you say it is bad. Because I was very anti-Burger King, but then I went there and I had the flame grilled, ain't it, and you know it was like amazing.'-Ali G

 
but im still spelling delph's name with a 1

'Has you ever had an abortion? Surely you should try something before you say it is bad. Because I was very anti-Burger King, but then I went there and I had the flame grilled, ain't it, and you know it was like amazing.'-Ali G

 
im 17 and i know im not as learned as you are in this shit, thats why im devoting the rest of this week to brush up on my shit. im getting it from different sources and opinions so im gonna form my own.

well I was gonna photoshop her shoulders and head on Ron Jeremy's body, but Im afraid to google images of Ron Jeremy.-tanankaskier

The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms!

~patrick henry
 
anyone who says bush is a better president than clinton is just ignorant, plain and simple

______________________________

" im popping the collar right now, you gotta wear at least 2 polos when you do it though, im rockin 3 burberrys at the moment" ATLSKI
 
^ dude we're trying to end this thread.

'Has you ever had an abortion? Surely you should try something before you say it is bad. Because I was very anti-Burger King, but then I went there and I had the flame grilled, ain't it, and you know it was like amazing.'-Ali G

 
hahah im going to bed, later peoples. ill come back some time with a new perspective on politics, tho my opinion of bush over kerry will most likely stand, so im not gonna post in this thread again till my info is up to par. bermbuster and xxscratchxxx and doghouse, keep shit regulated in here. when i return i shall spar with whoever wants a good debate. ahah, later.

-marsh-

well I was gonna photoshop her shoulders and head on Ron Jeremy's body, but Im afraid to google images of Ron Jeremy.-tanankaskier

The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms!

~patrick henry
 
2 Simple words to sum it all up...

FUCK CLINTON

And overall just fuck democratic liberal bitches that whine

____________________________________

If i somehow peirce into my brain and become retarded, you can have my ski shit--Giray Dadali

REDEMPTION WATERSKIS '05--Newest thing to happen to water since Chlorine

How many Emo kids does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

None let them cry in the dark
 
shutup hahaha, god damn

-kulpy-

gangsta raps lyrics are all the same, Someone gets shot, someones frontin, someones a wangsta, someones benchpressin, someones makin fried chicken, and the beans dont burn on the grill. You can see that shit in kentucky. Fuck the bronx, deep south bitches-scientist
 
KEEP THE PEACE

-kulpy-

gangsta raps lyrics are all the same, Someone gets shot, someones frontin, someones a wangsta, someones benchpressin, someones makin fried chicken, and the beans dont burn on the grill. You can see that shit in kentucky. Fuck the bronx, deep south bitches-scientist
 
its XxXScRAtcHXxX

and yes i have taken macro econ too reganomics and the trickle down theory are good but they really have nothing to do with what i said and im doign something else so i dont wanna type anymore

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No risk, No reward

i am a demublicandepentantomunist

 
you all are just perpetuating the hate

'Has you ever had an abortion? Surely you should try something before you say it is bad. Because I was very anti-Burger King, but then I went there and I had the flame grilled, ain't it, and you know it was like amazing.'-Ali G

 
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