NDC- Obama's Speech

To the free man, the country is the collection of individuals who compose it, not something over and above them. He is proud of a common heritage and loyal to common traditions. But he regards government as a means, an instrumentality, neither a grantor of favors and gifts, nor a master or god to be blindly worshipped and served. He recognizes no national goal except as it is the consensus of the goals that the citizens severally serve. He recognizes no national purpose except as it is the consensus of the purposes for which the citizens severally strive. -Milton Friedman

If you soooo firmly believe that why do you need the government to make you give money!!! You can donate it, give it away, build public buildings, whatever to help the community. Wouldn't you already be giving away a great deal, probably even more than your tax increase, if that is what you firmly believe? Peter Unger argues that we should spend every penny beyond what gives us our sustenance away to organizations. I don't know if that is too far?I don't understand why some people won't do it until everyone else is doing more than them.
 
You see thats where your youth gets the better of you.

I was working when minimum wage was $1.65 and gas was a $1 per gllon. I don't think things are screwed up now in the grand scheme of things. You don't know about the Viet Nam war or 15% house mortgages and how that affected things. How about the unemployment rates? I could go on about how I have de ja vu to the nth degree with environmental rhetoric but I won't.

Basically I am saying that things are not broken and don't need to be fixed. Here again, this is in the big picture grand scheme of things comparitively to other presidential tenures I have experienced. Give me more of the same not some unproven change.

BTW - mark my words. If Obama does become president, he will blame the lack of change on the previous administration.
 
Second, the quote is fundamentally wrong in my opinion. The government

isn't serving us, its granting us freedoms to do what we want, and we

shouldn't serve the government.

We ARE the government "of the people by the people"
 
Papasteeze I have to say I'm pretty disappointed in your ignorance. The people "whining" in this country are far from poor. In terms of yearly income you would think that I do fairly well but I struggle to pay for my own health insurance and my huge collage loan as do most of my friends and family who would also be considered middle class. The fact that most people would expect that they should be able to go to the doctor when they are sick with out worrying about losing their home because of the doctor/hospital bills they will have to pay, is this considered whining? Or low/middle income families shouldn't have the same right to send their children to college just because they weren't born with a silver spoon in their mouth, is this considered whining? What about all of the people who lost everything during Katrina- are they considered whiners because they need some assistance getting back on their feet after the govt. left them completely stranded.
It is a real bummer to see that there is so much ignorance still in this world. I was really hoping that this was starting to die out with the older generation but apparently not. Maybe think about putting yourself in others shoes before you start talking such ignorance!!!
 
I'm not actually going to respond, I just wanted to quote this for later reference so that I can refer to it any time there's any possibility of you seeming credible in a political thread.
 
Oh really JD? Credibility? You don't think I wasn't having these debates when I was your ages?

hahahahahaha.. I was more of dope smoking liberal radical hippy than any of you could even imagine, singing the same song. You know what? I grew up.

What was the mortgage rates during the Jimmy carter era? (obama reminds me of him)

What percentage was a gallon of gas to minimum wage when I was at the age of the majority of the posters? lower now or then?

Do you know what selective service is? How about the draft? wanna talk about the different wars in my life time?

Want my teachers to confess to you the garbage they preached about running out of oil and how we were all going to die if we didn't change our ways.

 
I'll vote for Obama...

...on the condition that all the Canadians on here that love him so much also get the same tax increase that Americans will get hit with.
 
be realistic no party is going to donate money they raise it for a reason. Although i think its waste of money its how our political process works
 
good job refuting everybody but this last statement kinda got to me. taxes is not all "interests." id rather pay a few more dollars in taxes (and thats all it will be is a few more dollars for the most of us on NS here that can actually vote or thus pay taxes than have barrack be president.

there are far more important issues than just taxes that barrack feels he is right on.
 
My current wage is around 50,000 a year, so I would actually benefit from a tax cut under the Obama plan. Moreover, any American government will tax its people significantly less than Canada's. So I'd be more than happy to pay Obama's taxes.
 
TI was going to do a long reply to hopefully combat some of the ignorance in this thread, but JD did a pretty damn good job. Just a few things:

Ax, it is vital to differentiate between "government" and "country" in JFK's quote. I totally agree we shouldn't "serve" the government, that would be a shitty system bordering on utilitarianism. Fuck that. But when you view "country" as all the people living or trying to live in the US, it takes on a whole new meaning. As JD eloquently put, it calls us to be our brother's keeper, to help those struggling to make a living, regardless of politics. This is the "common purpose" he talks about. History has proven that rarely does drastic social change come from the idiots in Washington, it arises out of movements and struggles by the common people.

And skiminnesota and those who say he is too vague, it's called speech making. Obama does it, McCain does it, basically every politician in the history of the world probably did it. You make it sound like you have great solutions to every problem while pissing off as few people as possible. But the quesiton is whether or not there is substance behind the promises. I really think Obama does have some meat on his idealistic bones, contrary to what everyone thinks.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/fiscal/#restore-discipline

There are a few specifics specifically on the issue of eliminating services. It's basically impossible to have a complete plan of how to accomplish all the campaign promises while still on the trail, as contrary to popular belief, the president doesn't have free rein to change policy and bend the whole United States to his will. He has to work with Congress, the Supreme Court, other agencies, his advisors, other nations, the states, a complex job at which I believe Obama would vastly outperform McCain.

 
But the country is just a collection of the Individuals in it. I honestly don't see why the democrats don;t take it upon themselves to help others out. They have excess as well, but instead of putting their words to action, they want tax cuts and other people to pay more so they don't have too.
 
You

don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer.

- Winston Churchil

Show me

a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an

old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.

- Winston Churchill

Socialism

is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of

envy. - Winston Churchill

A

liberal is a man with both feet planted firmly in the air.

- Winston Churchill

i fear this puts me into the heartless category, o well I'll live.... small animals and children on the other hand...;)

 
you are very correct in this statement.

However, The presidency is an elected position so the question isnt who would "hypothetically" outperform who in the white house, the question is who will act and follow up on their promisies during the campain trail. this is all politics is and will ever be.

this is how you (barrack), would change the country. lets say obama wins the presidency, he then appoints new supreme court delicates that lean far left and combined that with a democratically controlled senate (whos approval rating is half of Bushes) can turn our country in a way im not so sure we want to go. remember we will be electing far more people than just a president this time around. i fear Obama is going to take us in the wrong direction, but thats just my opinion and i respect your as well, that is what is great about this country.

this is what it all comes down tom if Obama wins:

A) Obama severly damages our country and economy as did Jimmy Carter did in the late 70s or

B) Obama turns this country around with his new policies.

i take option A (and yes that was a biased option becasue i personally do not like him)

 
Yes, clearly. The evidence of your maturity is shining very brightly through these threads.
 
The NS know-it-all

Dude, just move your ass to Venezuela or Bolivia. Socialist governments are awesome. Viva la Revolucion!
 
No, you'd me more than happy to pay American taxes. If all the socialists running the Democratic party had their way, we'd be paying out the asshole a lot more than we are now.
 
A little perspective never killed anybody, even if it doesn't agree with your political tendencies.
 
BTW- it is likely that WHEN Obama wins he won't be able t make much change for awhile exactly because this administration has Fu.... up this country so badly!!!

and more of the same are you kidding me!!!! record high numbers of people with no health insurance, schools that are over crowded, teachers that are under paid, losing our social security,a president that doesn't believe in global warming- Maybe your right more of the same is exactly what we need. WHAT A FOOL!!!
 
Not everyone on this thread is young I am probably closer to your age than you think. Not everyone once they get old becomes a tight ass conservative. I am sorry that you are teaching these values to your children.. Didn't I see on one of you posts that you were thinking of moving to a resort town in Canada? Maybe it's time for you to move!!
 
This thread really scares me.

The amount of people who would still want a Republican in the White House after the past 8 years kind of astonishes me.

Espcially the kids who can't vote who are saying McCain. If he fucks up big time, it's US who have to pay. (same goes for Obama but I have more faith in him)

If McCain win's, I swear to God I am moving my ass out of this country ASAP. Iceland looks nice, or maybe New Zealand.
 
you know what really scares me? the education level of our youth. kids nowadays dont give a shit about school, their work ethic is shot down the drain, teen pregnancies are at an all time high, and we are a spoiled nation. so what does that say about our younger voters?

all of a sudden, here comes this guy (out of the blue) that speaks with great spirit and promises a perfect country and a perfect world all with no extra effort from you. a government handout to the lazy or ill-informed public.

look, lets address the real issue here that is on peoples minds. i know times are bad, i know the average person cannot afford household items and government handouts seem like a good solution because this normal slight bump in the economy is happening right now. THIS IS NORMAL in a capitalistic economy. the answer is not government intervention in more of our affairs, the answer is fiscal responsibility.

So, you are entitled to your opinion, at least if you move to iceland you will have good skiing!
 
Does that really scare you? You might want to realize that good ol' John McCain is a flaming anti-abortion- anti-birth, control, anti-sex education idiot then.

look into it a little here's one for example:

Voted NO on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education and contraceptives. Vote to adopt an amendment to the Senate's 2006 Fiscal Year Budget that allocates $100 million for the prevention of unintended pregnancies.

APPROPRIATION TO EXPAND ACCESS TO PREVENTIVE HEALTH CARE SERVICES; BILL S.AMDT. 244 TO S CON RES 18 ; VOTE NUMBER 2005-75 ON MAR 17, 2005
 
i am anti-abortion but lets not go into the abortion, anti birth control issue please. i should have not gotten off topic in the first place, sorry.

but thanks for that little piece of information.
 
yeah people stand where they want on abortion but being against birth control is just retarded, I guess this is what you can expect though from the grand ol party of fat, old, rich white men that never get laid. god help us if mccain actually manages to win and stack the court with a bunch of assholes
 
does it bother you that Barack voted against guaranteeing baby's that are born alive after a botched abortion would be assured health care....

champion of the little guy, health insurance for all, unless you are a helpless baby who ended up being born instead of abortion killing you...........

 
why should it matter? y should rich people get fucked by taxes? my family falls under obamas definition of middle class so we wouldnt even get fucked by it. but rich people earned there money and should do with it as they please. really the best thing for the economy is to leave more money in the pocket of the consumer, rich or poor
 
ahhh yes money in the pocket of the consumer. hell even give it back like those stimulus checks this year.....

but wait!!! whats this. were in a recession right now! clearly thats NOT the best thing for the economy. however judging by the fact that you spelled why as "y" im hoping you either cant vote. or wont.
 
the whole point of the stimulous checks was to put money in the hands of the consumer BECAUSE we are in a recession. how is that bad?
 
do i really need to pull up the statistics about what the rich pay in taxes again?

because i am more than happy to....

ill tell you what, this will come as a shocker, but i would support marginally higher taxes FOR ALL as long as the scum bags in Washington couldnt spend ONE RED cent... the money would be used to pay down the national Debt, and after that, TAX CUTS FOR ALL... YAY!

 
Obama speaks about lifting people out of poverty, the way he plans on doing that is taking peoples hard earned money and giving them a hand out.

People dont need the governemnt to "lift" them out of poverty, this is America, its history is people coming here with nothing and making something with themselves, and it is the same today. Everybody can do it with hard work.

heck,,,Obama is living proof.

The problem with the DNC is they think that the people who earn thier money shouldnt be able to decide wha to do with it,(ie, donate to their own charity, re invest in their company or buy a yatch which creates hundreds of jobs within itsef) they think the government will make a better decision for them.

 
yeah im terrible cuz i abbreviate when typing on the internet. o wait i just wrote "cuz" instead of because. just a weak attack. i realise we're in a recession. how do we get out of one? well maybe by people spending money. that is afterall what drives our capitalist economy. how do we get people to spend more money? not taxing them to death. i have no idea how more taxes and putting more money in the governments hands does shit for the economy. and yeah i can vote, and it will be for mccain, even though i disagree with him on a lot of stuff.
 
med, refer to the alaskan VP mccain thread, I oppose Obama there with real shit, I was just pointing out that great speakers aren't always great people. Hitler, Mussolini. Sometimes the most charismatic and charming people can be the biggest monsters in the world. Obama has a lot of cult-leader like charisma. He may not be a terrible person underneath it all, he may be, Im just saying people need to look past the verbiage and flowery rhetoric and see what he really stands for.
 
the hole he continues to dig himself is almost as deep as all of the ones in his "plans"

....even left wingers are jumping this guy's ship.

i'm not going to argue or try to prove it, its not worth my time. plus, papasteeze has already done it for me. well done.
 
but noone spent the checks because of the recession. they put them in the bank and they didnt do jack shit.
 
we arent taxing ANYONE to death. hes gonna raise taxes for people who make more than 250 grand a year, people who definitely wont be taxed to death. at the same time hes going to lower taxes for the middle and lower classes, the people who actually reduce spending during a recession. so its a win win situation
 
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