My personal reason for thinking the reign of the USA is over. From a Canadian.
- Thread starter tronned
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californiagrown
Active member
now youre getting butthurt over a joke? one that wasnt even mean? Damn, get off your high horse.
Proletariat.
Active member
God dammit fujarome I thought we were going to have a discussion
steezbox
Active member
It's not cynical at all. I completley agree with this though. During the past there always has been a goal which helped progression. The whole Cold War era caused many changes with technology advancements, social change etc. At the moment there is absolutley nothing that one strives for to achieve... excpet for money of course. Yay capitalism. I really do think that China may become the world's next superpower be it a good or bad thing.
Proletariat.
Active member
I dont think it's that far off, the USA has no one to compete with anymore, however China has the US to compete with
fujarome
Active member
sorry i had to go out drinking. I'm back now...
I'd actually like to go ahead and turn the op's point around on him. The fact that the government is no longer doing manned launches is a sign of progress. How? Because we've reached the point at which private companies and citizens are able to undertake space endeavours on their own. SpaceX and other companies are filling the void, and since they are companies (IE money is their prime concern) they will do it in a more efficient manner, with more direct goals, and better publicity. What other country in the world has reached the level where the government can say "you know what, our citizens and companies seem to have a pretty solid grasp on space travel by now. I think it's safe to leave the future to them."
NASA isn't dead, nor will it be, and it was never killed by vietnam or nixon or obama. It was killed by it's own lack of PR. We were walking on the goddamn moon, and nasa assumed no one cared after the first time. No tv, no press...ridiculous.
and claiming the russians are ahead of us in space is a bit nonsense. They use the soyuz rockets still. Same type as they used in 1967. We abandoned our (glorious, technologically unbelievable) Saturn V because we wanted to do more than just go into space. We wanted to bring shit up...move it around with an arm to build stuff(thanks canada) and even bring shit BACK to earth which was previously 100% impossible, and is once again.
I'd actually like to go ahead and turn the op's point around on him. The fact that the government is no longer doing manned launches is a sign of progress. How? Because we've reached the point at which private companies and citizens are able to undertake space endeavours on their own. SpaceX and other companies are filling the void, and since they are companies (IE money is their prime concern) they will do it in a more efficient manner, with more direct goals, and better publicity. What other country in the world has reached the level where the government can say "you know what, our citizens and companies seem to have a pretty solid grasp on space travel by now. I think it's safe to leave the future to them."
NASA isn't dead, nor will it be, and it was never killed by vietnam or nixon or obama. It was killed by it's own lack of PR. We were walking on the goddamn moon, and nasa assumed no one cared after the first time. No tv, no press...ridiculous.
and claiming the russians are ahead of us in space is a bit nonsense. They use the soyuz rockets still. Same type as they used in 1967. We abandoned our (glorious, technologically unbelievable) Saturn V because we wanted to do more than just go into space. We wanted to bring shit up...move it around with an arm to build stuff(thanks canada) and even bring shit BACK to earth which was previously 100% impossible, and is once again.
Proletariat.
Active member
I would argue that private sector will not and cannot fill the void. There is not enough demand in the private sector for space exploration so I cant see the bar being raised very far. Private companies are more interested in "space tourism", something which you can essentially do as of now(if you have deep enough pockets).
NASA had plans to put a man on Mars by the early 80's but back in 69' Vietnam sapped almost all of NASA's budget for that mission to help fund the war. Thus the shuttles were created. They "were" supposed to be cheaper and reusable with missions almost once every week. The down side is they could not travel into space (ISS is actually in Earths upper atmosphere). They also lacked the power of the Saturn V but the Shuttles was a technological master piece which was also its downfall.
The Russians still use the same 67 Soyuz because A. Its reliable, B. No billions wasted in R&D over the years on a new experimental design and C. 67 was a good year
While the Russians never actually put a man on the moon they lit the fire under NASA's ass to get their shit together, because prior to 69 the Russki's had been dominating in the space frontier. IE. First satellite, first man, longest voyage in space.
Perhaps its good that NASA is taking a break allowing for the Russians to rebuild their space program and kick start another mini space race, or a race to Mars which you can be damn sure the Russians would want to claim. They lost out on the moon, but they will be gunning for Mars. It would give "The Red Planet" a whole other meaning.
NASA had plans to put a man on Mars by the early 80's but back in 69' Vietnam sapped almost all of NASA's budget for that mission to help fund the war. Thus the shuttles were created. They "were" supposed to be cheaper and reusable with missions almost once every week. The down side is they could not travel into space (ISS is actually in Earths upper atmosphere). They also lacked the power of the Saturn V but the Shuttles was a technological master piece which was also its downfall.
The Russians still use the same 67 Soyuz because A. Its reliable, B. No billions wasted in R&D over the years on a new experimental design and C. 67 was a good year
While the Russians never actually put a man on the moon they lit the fire under NASA's ass to get their shit together, because prior to 69 the Russki's had been dominating in the space frontier. IE. First satellite, first man, longest voyage in space.
Perhaps its good that NASA is taking a break allowing for the Russians to rebuild their space program and kick start another mini space race, or a race to Mars which you can be damn sure the Russians would want to claim. They lost out on the moon, but they will be gunning for Mars. It would give "The Red Planet" a whole other meaning.
fujarome
Active member
space tourism is a step to build finances. Just like suborbital flights are a way to build experience. Charge people a few million to go into orbit...then over time, a few billion to go to the moon.
Vietnam wasn't as big a killer as i think you're making it out to be. You have to keep in mind that the moon missions all occurred between 68 and 72. (moon mission doesn't necessarily mean landing on it.) Right in the thick of the war.
The problem was that people didn't see beyond the present. They were on the moon, and already had been, so why continue doing it when it cost billions per mission? Of course had they continued, the price would have gone down until we decided to make more progress. But nixon did not want kennedy's legacy to outdo his own, so von braun got moved to a desk, all his ideas were killed, and they stopped using his rocket.
And by the way, technically speaking, saturn v is the only rocket to have ever left earth orbit. Even soyuz is still LEO. It makes sense to keep using them, but it also impedes progress. Much as i personally disliked the program and think it was a waste, had we not moved on to shuttle from saturn, odds are we wouldn't have nearly as many satellites, and definitely no ISS.
oh and to those who say space technology is useless...guarantee that if you look in almost any car, there's a GPS in there. Maybe not a huge advancement...but that's just one small one. I could go in depth as to how even just a gps is a huge leap.
Vietnam wasn't as big a killer as i think you're making it out to be. You have to keep in mind that the moon missions all occurred between 68 and 72. (moon mission doesn't necessarily mean landing on it.) Right in the thick of the war.
The problem was that people didn't see beyond the present. They were on the moon, and already had been, so why continue doing it when it cost billions per mission? Of course had they continued, the price would have gone down until we decided to make more progress. But nixon did not want kennedy's legacy to outdo his own, so von braun got moved to a desk, all his ideas were killed, and they stopped using his rocket.
And by the way, technically speaking, saturn v is the only rocket to have ever left earth orbit. Even soyuz is still LEO. It makes sense to keep using them, but it also impedes progress. Much as i personally disliked the program and think it was a waste, had we not moved on to shuttle from saturn, odds are we wouldn't have nearly as many satellites, and definitely no ISS.
oh and to those who say space technology is useless...guarantee that if you look in almost any car, there's a GPS in there. Maybe not a huge advancement...but that's just one small one. I could go in depth as to how even just a gps is a huge leap.
tronned
Active member
I do believe you are correct in the assumption that private sector space exploration is now hitting its own golden age but like stated previously, its not space research as its just mearly a means to generate income from space tourist. While this is a giant leap forward in the progression of cheap space flight, in the long run it will not accomplish a thing for the prolonged survival, frontier and terraform possibility of the human race. These low orbit privateer rockets and shuttles will harbor no data that is not currently collected from iss or land based labs. I think space tourism will be an amazing thing in the future, but it will surely have its growing pains as the mighty shuttle program did have its own share of growing pain.
I do not believe that NASA is dying or will die but in a more dubious sense I believe NASA will fade away in to no substantial spiritual boosts for humanity. I stand 100 percent behind NASA in the current age of landers and rocket based probes but I do not share the same ocular and kin connections with a rocket launched robot/lander/probe as I do with seeing brave men and women board discovery or enterprise.
The space exploration programs after closure have been tallied up to be grossly expensive and over budget ( i dont know the exact number but I believe the shuttle program adjusted for inflation has cost of roughly 200 billion dollars ) but also have done more to connect humanity at a primal level than anything previously in history. The unthinkable was done in a time of strife and worry. The entire world knows of the men of apollo 11 which is not the same shared fate of the 37 year old voyager which has surrendered much more useful knowledge of the solar system than the apollo missions grouped together.
I dont think the point of this thread is to argue the validity of the space exploration/ shuttle program but more over an unbiased personal observation of a subtle indication of a fail from grace for a nation. The United States will be fine in the long run and maybe perhaps one day will bring a new era of manned space flight, nevertheless its still a very sad time to anyone who is interested in the human condition and the exploration of the final frontiers. It turns out as a child you can no longer wish to be an astronaut.
Any space exploration conversation is a good chance to whore out Carl Sagan aswell, so for people who do not like to read... here you go.
a sad picture for a person who shares the same curiosity for our place in the cosmos as i do.
I do not believe that NASA is dying or will die but in a more dubious sense I believe NASA will fade away in to no substantial spiritual boosts for humanity. I stand 100 percent behind NASA in the current age of landers and rocket based probes but I do not share the same ocular and kin connections with a rocket launched robot/lander/probe as I do with seeing brave men and women board discovery or enterprise.
The space exploration programs after closure have been tallied up to be grossly expensive and over budget ( i dont know the exact number but I believe the shuttle program adjusted for inflation has cost of roughly 200 billion dollars ) but also have done more to connect humanity at a primal level than anything previously in history. The unthinkable was done in a time of strife and worry. The entire world knows of the men of apollo 11 which is not the same shared fate of the 37 year old voyager which has surrendered much more useful knowledge of the solar system than the apollo missions grouped together.
I dont think the point of this thread is to argue the validity of the space exploration/ shuttle program but more over an unbiased personal observation of a subtle indication of a fail from grace for a nation. The United States will be fine in the long run and maybe perhaps one day will bring a new era of manned space flight, nevertheless its still a very sad time to anyone who is interested in the human condition and the exploration of the final frontiers. It turns out as a child you can no longer wish to be an astronaut.
Any space exploration conversation is a good chance to whore out Carl Sagan aswell, so for people who do not like to read... here you go.
a sad picture for a person who shares the same curiosity for our place in the cosmos as i do.
HWW
Active member
I've never seen a comparison of the money spent on military and NASA, but that circle graph is pretty crazy, what a waste!
If people don't realise how important space exploration is, and don't stop fighting, then we'll certainly just destroy ourselves. I think the USA, especially as it is a powerful economy, should be the ones who set the example by retreating from the useless wars it is fighting in.
I don't think it is important that the USA is powerful by having a space program, actually I really think the whole world should work together, even more in areas like space exploration, but to me, as a Brit, it doesn't really matter which country is pushing the limits, as long as I can see the result and, if possible, contribute to it.
Science is definitely one of, or the most important things we can do to survive and develop as a civilisation.
If people don't realise how important space exploration is, and don't stop fighting, then we'll certainly just destroy ourselves. I think the USA, especially as it is a powerful economy, should be the ones who set the example by retreating from the useless wars it is fighting in.
I don't think it is important that the USA is powerful by having a space program, actually I really think the whole world should work together, even more in areas like space exploration, but to me, as a Brit, it doesn't really matter which country is pushing the limits, as long as I can see the result and, if possible, contribute to it.
Science is definitely one of, or the most important things we can do to survive and develop as a civilisation.
PagesHouse
Active member
The only thing I have to add here is that the space program was a HUGE driver for scientific research as a whole in our country- not just space-related matter. There's justified concerns over how the end of the space program will negatively impact the future of science in schools and as a topic of interest for future generations.
californiagrown
Active member
youre a fucking idiot. how did anyone get the land they now live on? they fucking took it from another tribe...whether it was 300 years ago or a couple thousand.
Proletariat.
Active member
In the 60's when kids were growing up they dreamed of being an astronaut, now they dream of making millions of dollars working for some business. It's sad.
General_Ripper
Active member
or being on the jersey shore.
Shits stupid. This society has given people the wrong ideas.
Shits stupid. This society has given people the wrong ideas.
Anathema
Active member
who needs to worry about space any way. the earth is what, 75% water and we haven't even conquered that yet.
lets grow us some mother fuckin gills and build underwater kingdoms and shit. intelligent life confined to living in one specific area (can't be too hot, too cold, too wet, too dry, etc) just seems like a fucking waste.
lets grow us some mother fuckin gills and build underwater kingdoms and shit. intelligent life confined to living in one specific area (can't be too hot, too cold, too wet, too dry, etc) just seems like a fucking waste.
californiagrown
Active member
they stole land from other tribes. and those tribes fought wars, and stole land from yet other tribes. So if youre gonna play that game, all of the natives living in N America when white folks arrived had no more right to it than the white folks.
.cam.
Active member
My understanding is its only the shuttle program being stopped. I am pretty sure american astronauts are still going to go to space but not on our shuttles. Also they will spend the money on more probes to explore the deeper parts of the universe. Hopefully they will use it on R&D for a long distance shuttle for mars
e.wait
Member
I'll give you a hint, stop spewing pseudo-intellectual bullshit in an attempt to seem clever. I was talking about technology, not land. Yes, everyone knows that we essentially stole this land from the Native Americans. I did not realize your original statement was a joke. I apologize. However, if you would like to start an all-out shitstorm, step at me bro.
zagfan5
Active member
i was gonna say exactly this
do you realize how many things we use in our everyday lives were developed by nasa or for space travel? waaay more than you would guess or even imagine.
if you ever get the chance to watch the modern marvels "it came from space", do it. it really shows how many things we use everyday were thought up and used for in the first place. before they became consumer products. fascinating really.
do you realize how many things we use in our everyday lives were developed by nasa or for space travel? waaay more than you would guess or even imagine.
if you ever get the chance to watch the modern marvels "it came from space", do it. it really shows how many things we use everyday were thought up and used for in the first place. before they became consumer products. fascinating really.
Obi-Wan-Jenobi
Member
Bro they made it through the 30's give em ten years americans are stubbourn they'll pull through.
Hey 2nd or 3rd isn't so bad. China can deal with the middle east and all of its fucking problems. Plus if we don't have to play international policeman then we don't need such a huge defense budget. Pay off our debt. Redo our 40+ year old infrastructure. And Eventually we can retake that number one spot if we want. Sounds spectacular to me.
Oh dear christ...
All I can say is this...
The USA isn't OVER... nobody's 'reign' is OVER... In fact, I'd say that nobody has such thing as a 'reign' anymore (unless you mean militarily, in which case, the USA still has its foot way more in the door than any other country could hope to achieve right now... unfortunately)
Yeah, so the USA has a shit economy right now, well so does pretty much everyone else in the world.
The UK is rioting
France is too
China has insane pollution and relatively low per-capita economic wealth (people still get cataracts there dude... this whole economic red scare is a load of horseshit)
Japan's economy is just as stagnant as anyone's
Europe is always bickering with itself
Africa's on fire
Russia's beginning to reject free enterprise, and pretty soon is about to turn Red again.. (or just jump on the China train)
India has a severe population crisis
So does Pakistan.
Indonesia is drug infested
Canada's saying "what's going on eh?" "WE GOT THE JETS BACK!''
and Australia is like WTF MATE..?
As I see it, nothing is about to change anytime soon. China's space program is still in the 1970's compared to the USA's... and Russia's is only being spurred along with efforts from the ESA which it keeps rejecting since it's got a diminishing population, and LOTS of other issues its still trying to fix (corruption much?)
Shit's not about to change very much anytime soon that's going to have a dramatic flipflop of the global sphere of influence... dont expect it anytime soon.
No... we dont have to start learning Mandarin lol.
All I can say is this...
The USA isn't OVER... nobody's 'reign' is OVER... In fact, I'd say that nobody has such thing as a 'reign' anymore (unless you mean militarily, in which case, the USA still has its foot way more in the door than any other country could hope to achieve right now... unfortunately)
Yeah, so the USA has a shit economy right now, well so does pretty much everyone else in the world.
The UK is rioting
France is too
China has insane pollution and relatively low per-capita economic wealth (people still get cataracts there dude... this whole economic red scare is a load of horseshit)
Japan's economy is just as stagnant as anyone's
Europe is always bickering with itself
Africa's on fire
Russia's beginning to reject free enterprise, and pretty soon is about to turn Red again.. (or just jump on the China train)
India has a severe population crisis
So does Pakistan.
Indonesia is drug infested
Canada's saying "what's going on eh?" "WE GOT THE JETS BACK!''
and Australia is like WTF MATE..?
As I see it, nothing is about to change anytime soon. China's space program is still in the 1970's compared to the USA's... and Russia's is only being spurred along with efforts from the ESA which it keeps rejecting since it's got a diminishing population, and LOTS of other issues its still trying to fix (corruption much?)
Shit's not about to change very much anytime soon that's going to have a dramatic flipflop of the global sphere of influence... dont expect it anytime soon.
No... we dont have to start learning Mandarin lol.
dispatchQ_main
Active member
US will not go out without a fight. I can see a war between china and u.s soon. Or at least a video game about it.
I dont see that happening at all right now...
Theres nothing to fight over since they need us as much as we need them.
Our companies give them money to make things that we buy at walmart.
unless we outlaw walmart or something, I dont see them getting too pissed at us haha.
Theres nothing to fight over since they need us as much as we need them.
Our companies give them money to make things that we buy at walmart.
unless we outlaw walmart or something, I dont see them getting too pissed at us haha.
I have a feeling that theyre gonna grow too big for their shit, and then companies here are going to start sending their jobs to even poorer countries. just watch lol.