My 333 Skis Design
- Thread starter Octopus
- Start date
charmander
Active member
if i were to call you, how would you feel?
personally I think you either need to beef up the tip and tail dimensions or make it with a narrower waist to gain more sidecut.
ie: 135-105-125 (similar to obsethed)
or
125-95-120 (similar to k2 Kung Fujas)
having more sidecut will make it turn easier.
Personally I would want some camber as well to get more pop.
ie: 135-105-125 (similar to obsethed)
or
125-95-120 (similar to k2 Kung Fujas)
having more sidecut will make it turn easier.
Personally I would want some camber as well to get more pop.
charmander
Active member
so will deeper sidecut
charmander
Active member
youre skis are 125-105-116 yes?thats sidecut, incase you didnt know
now, lets look at some race skis
my race skis have these dimensions
113-64-102
in 165 they have a 13 meter turning radius.now lets say we increase them to a 105 waste
we get
154-105-143
now, you just have fat race skis, which probably wont have a 13 meter turning radius, but will turn sharper than what you had.
heres the problem though, 154 shovels? holy shit thats massive, so you need to come up with something in the middle
how about 135-105-126
that will probably turn better
my bridges have
130-92-112 dimensions, notice the much smaller tail helps a bit too, but thats not that important, you're doing good with the "10mm rule"my 177's have a 19m turn.
do what you want though.
now, lets look at some race skis
my race skis have these dimensions
113-64-102
in 165 they have a 13 meter turning radius.now lets say we increase them to a 105 waste
we get
154-105-143
now, you just have fat race skis, which probably wont have a 13 meter turning radius, but will turn sharper than what you had.
heres the problem though, 154 shovels? holy shit thats massive, so you need to come up with something in the middle
how about 135-105-126
that will probably turn better
my bridges have
130-92-112 dimensions, notice the much smaller tail helps a bit too, but thats not that important, you're doing good with the "10mm rule"my 177's have a 19m turn.
do what you want though.
charmander
Active member
and to add to my above post, this seems relevant
its the concept behind my race skis, which were what won the olympic slalom in slc/claim
The Omeglass 64 is one of the smoothest hard-snow cruisers ever made thanks to Dynastar’s Autodrive concept: a wide shovel makes entering each turn effortless, and a narrow tail releases easily so you won’t get hooked into one monotonous turn shape. When coming out of the turn the vertical sidewalls and oversized tail produce extra energy for linking turns down the longest fall lines
its the concept behind my race skis, which were what won the olympic slalom in slc/claim
The Omeglass 64 is one of the smoothest hard-snow cruisers ever made thanks to Dynastar’s Autodrive concept: a wide shovel makes entering each turn effortless, and a narrow tail releases easily so you won’t get hooked into one monotonous turn shape. When coming out of the turn the vertical sidewalls and oversized tail produce extra energy for linking turns down the longest fall lines
Mt_Baker_Man
Active member
Dude, talk to him about early taper, I gave him the dimensions
180 length 130-102-124 for the sidecut
That would be like a 40m turn radius on 180 length skis, but he is making the "tip taper length" about 50cm, and the tail 45cm. (Length from boot center, to widest point of ski).
This is slightly less then what you have, but yours is 165 in length. This makes my skis turn like yours, yet carry like a 180 ski, it also makes the swing weight a little lighter, as well as helps prevent hooking tip and tail in pow pow, and butters.
PM me if you want a clearer description.
Did Charmander call you?
180 length 130-102-124 for the sidecut
That would be like a 40m turn radius on 180 length skis, but he is making the "tip taper length" about 50cm, and the tail 45cm. (Length from boot center, to widest point of ski).
This is slightly less then what you have, but yours is 165 in length. This makes my skis turn like yours, yet carry like a 180 ski, it also makes the swing weight a little lighter, as well as helps prevent hooking tip and tail in pow pow, and butters.
PM me if you want a clearer description.
Did Charmander call you?
charmander
Active member
nah, i nevr called him.
im tempted to throw it up on 4chan though
jokes jokes
im tempted to throw it up on 4chan though
jokes jokes
those taper lengths are core taper lengths. that is where he starts tapering down the core to provide a softer flex. the early taper you meant to talk about is what is on his sheet as tip length. Normal tip length is about 10cm or so, but you can make it longer moving the fattest part of the tip in, making the skis turn shorter(especailly in pow). Every ski not made for pure park or groomers should have this, it kills crud and ups the pow performance huge. For one idea of a tip with a small bit of taper, look up pics of k2 coombas. jjs have more taper.
neither of those have to do with length from boot center to widest point of ski..
and mostly TALK TO MICHAEL. a bunch of kids on ns are going to give you bad information.
and most of all, the guy that said it needs more sidecut IMO is wrong. Most skis should not be anything close to a slalom ski. I personally did not like using my sl skis anywhere outside of the course when I raced. I liked SG and DH boards best for groomer cruising, just long smooth turns. When I can, I get my skis with minimal sidecut. my 333 ski(talked over with Michael already) is a 194 with dims of either 140 or 138 in the tip, 118 underfoot and 124 in the tail. obviously more than the dims make a ski, though..
neither of those have to do with length from boot center to widest point of ski..
and mostly TALK TO MICHAEL. a bunch of kids on ns are going to give you bad information.
and most of all, the guy that said it needs more sidecut IMO is wrong. Most skis should not be anything close to a slalom ski. I personally did not like using my sl skis anywhere outside of the course when I raced. I liked SG and DH boards best for groomer cruising, just long smooth turns. When I can, I get my skis with minimal sidecut. my 333 ski(talked over with Michael already) is a 194 with dims of either 140 or 138 in the tip, 118 underfoot and 124 in the tail. obviously more than the dims make a ski, though..
JstHuckIt
Member
Have you skied the dynastar contact series...they're awesome, that shovel tip pops you up on soft snow and breaks through crud like a dream...I think the only ski to ski difference is tip size and underfoot...they are really balanced too so spins are pretty easy if you get bored doing turns...
charmander
Active member
those sound pretty sick
my dynastars were only 60 bucks and i needed a groomer ski haha
and to the guy up there, saying im wrong about sidecut, if you read my post more you would notice that i sized up my SL skis to 105 underfoot, and then went down from there.
i dont think he needs, or wants a slalom ski at all.
and i like mine off piste just as much as on the course, theyre fun skis.
my dynastars were only 60 bucks and i needed a groomer ski haha
and to the guy up there, saying im wrong about sidecut, if you read my post more you would notice that i sized up my SL skis to 105 underfoot, and then went down from there.
i dont think he needs, or wants a slalom ski at all.
and i like mine off piste just as much as on the course, theyre fun skis.
Mt_Baker_Man
Active member
Dude, the sidecut dimensions he has are fine, he just needs "early taper" which makes the turning radius way smaller, and still allows those dimensions. It also makes the ski more lively, which is uber nice in the park and pow. Also, I have a pair of 180 length skis with a TWT of 121-100-111. They are straight, and stiff. They munch up crud, and dont chatter at all. I like slow graceful methodical turns, and they ski like tanks. Big sidecut only helps on groomers.
charmander
Active member
well it sounds like he wants all mountain skis... but if turn radius doesnt matter like you guys say, lets just get pencil skis.
Mt_Baker_Man
Active member
EARLY TAPER PRESERVES TURN RADIUS, AND ALLOWS FOR A MORE PLAYFUL SKI.
Look up Line Sir Francis Bacon.
Look up Line Sir Francis Bacon.
SFBs=terrible example. That taper is so small and you can't even see it looking at the skis. IMO they turn short because they are short(for a non park ski) and are also soft.
and did you read my other post? If you put 50cm of early taper like you were saying that's over twice as much as EHPs, about 2X JJ early taper... Before posting, know what you are talking about. With 50cm early tip taper 45cm tail(i think that is what you said earlier) plus a normal tip and tail(lets say 10cm each) that leaves you 50cm of sidecut stupid. Those measurements you gave are core taper lengths that Michael put on your sheet because they fit , and thats not what you meant to talk about.
what you meant to talk about is tip length. Giving a ski a longer tip length is not a good thing on groomers or in park(with exceptions, some people like the taper of Alpha 1s) but it is a great thing in crud and pow. if you make the widest part of the tip of a ski come in 20cm, your skis turn much shorter in pow(and groomers) than the ski length implies, but with more stability than a shorter ski. and it sort of slices through crud better. Do I need to get any more detailed?
And Charmander, I understand your reasoning. I liked the way my slalom skis made short turns, but when not skiing slalom I never want to make turns that short. It's preferance, which is another reason this thread doesn't have much point. If I wanted a ski with a 105 waist(then I would want Shoguns BUT) I would not want it to make tiny little groomer turns.
and did you read my other post? If you put 50cm of early taper like you were saying that's over twice as much as EHPs, about 2X JJ early taper... Before posting, know what you are talking about. With 50cm early tip taper 45cm tail(i think that is what you said earlier) plus a normal tip and tail(lets say 10cm each) that leaves you 50cm of sidecut stupid. Those measurements you gave are core taper lengths that Michael put on your sheet because they fit , and thats not what you meant to talk about.
what you meant to talk about is tip length. Giving a ski a longer tip length is not a good thing on groomers or in park(with exceptions, some people like the taper of Alpha 1s) but it is a great thing in crud and pow. if you make the widest part of the tip of a ski come in 20cm, your skis turn much shorter in pow(and groomers) than the ski length implies, but with more stability than a shorter ski. and it sort of slices through crud better. Do I need to get any more detailed?
And Charmander, I understand your reasoning. I liked the way my slalom skis made short turns, but when not skiing slalom I never want to make turns that short. It's preferance, which is another reason this thread doesn't have much point. If I wanted a ski with a 105 waist(then I would want Shoguns BUT) I would not want it to make tiny little groomer turns.
charmander
Active member
yeah, i was just trying to explain sidecut, so i used slalom skis as an example haha
i mean, no, i wouldnt want a 13m turn radius on every ski i own or anything
i mean, no, i wouldnt want a 13m turn radius on every ski i own or anything
newengland72
Member
These are very similar to my idea of a Prophet 90 copy + early rise tips/tails
Slinger1x1
Active member
someone explain taper to me a little bit? mines at 50, but i dont know what that really means...
Mt_Baker_Man
Active member
Taper is effectively the distance between the mount line of your skis, and the widest point at the tip/tail.
If the taper is "early taper" that means the widest point of the ski is father towards the middle of the ski, so the effective edge is smaller than a normal ski of the same size. There are advantages and disadvantages to doing early taper. The main drawback is less edge hold. But, it also makes the skis lighter towards the end, they turn easier, they don't catch in powder as easily, and they make turns like a shorter ski, but with the stability of their full length.
Hope that helps.
If the taper is "early taper" that means the widest point of the ski is father towards the middle of the ski, so the effective edge is smaller than a normal ski of the same size. There are advantages and disadvantages to doing early taper. The main drawback is less edge hold. But, it also makes the skis lighter towards the end, they turn easier, they don't catch in powder as easily, and they make turns like a shorter ski, but with the stability of their full length.
Hope that helps.