MARY O'NEIL DOESNT SUPPORT GAY MARIAGE

Wow, you know me so well don't you Andy. You're obviously not okay with people having their own personal views to attack me like that. Its one thing to disagree with me, but quite another thing to set out to hurt me and critisize me like that. Congratulations. Your comment got my attention
 
You've succumbed to hatred so much in your religion that it doesn't seem to be the least bit wrong to oppress an entire community of people. It's sickening.

Sidenote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but most churches nowadays only really teach the New Testament, correct? If homosexuality is looked down upon solely in the Old Testament, why do you people have such a problem with same-sex marriage? Why do you people feel the need to keep that rule relevant when there are copious amounts of other ridiculous rules that are not? It makes no fucking sense.
 
It's bizarre that this thread is getting so much attention, which is why it actually did draw my attention.

After reading through here, I'd just like to note that being against the legalization of gay marriage has nothing to do with opinion, it has to do with your beliefs. Opinions are drawn on facts, beliefs are drawn on morals/faith/values. Sadly, some of the posts in here fall into yet a third category.. prejudice. I'm making a decision to not address that third category.

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with having personal beliefs. It is Mary's belief that marriage is a sacred thing. That's a cultural/religious decision to her. However, the term marriage is a very loose term. To literally redefine a word that will only be valid in the United States (technically only in states which it has been redefined) is a bit of an outlandish task.... right up there with removing the title of "Planet" from pluto, but at least the rest of the world accepted that one.

Thing is, marriage has so many meanings across the world. In Africa, there are cultures where you can marry a ghost, or a cow... It's a word. It is not sacred.

Then there is the idea of a holy union which also is called a marriage. This is where the uproar comes from. Stating you do not think gay people should be able to be "married" because it shares a reference with the idea of the "holy union" borders on the edge of prejudice.

There are religious institutions that are not opposed to homosexuality and that would accept gay couples in allowing them and enabling them to be married within their religious facility. No one is forcing these institutions to allow these marriages.

It is perfectly acceptable to have a belief in which you feel it is opposed to your religion for a gay couple to be wed, but it is not against every religious sect's belief system. So by opposing the allowance of same sex marriages, you are opposing the beliefs of others.

Fortunately, the way our government is meant to work is majority rules, but with minority rights. The homosexual community is in the minority, and the state governments are more and more beginning to grant homosexuals the rights to the same benefits as married couples as well as allowing religious institutions to make the decision as to whether or not they approve or disapprove of the union.

Mary is entitled to her beliefs, even if they don't coincide with how our government is meant to respond.
 
Well were you raised Christian? Because I remember as a kid growing up in the church I was told that all abortions were wrong and I was yelled at by grown adults for disagreeing with them in the cases of rape. I'm sure because I grew up in the early 90s being gay wasn't really issue with the church and was never really talked about Or maybe my church just didn't care. But needless to say you have to have some basis for not wanting gay people to get married So where did you get this belief that gay people shouldn't be married.
 
MaryO: Without any bias or judgement in regards to the rest of the thread, what if, hypothetically, one of your children was gay; would you feel the same way about same sex marriages?
 
MaryO is a conservative catholic, her kids go/went to a catholic high school here in Minnesota. Everyone with all the hate, cant people have their own views these days? You all hold your own views to that you think its right, so dont hate on someone for their own views. If someone is strong in their religious views they should not be criticized and especially on an online forum. "Marriage" is the big topic of discussion for alot of people that it should not be called marriage and that marriage is sacred between a man and woman. I for myself have no problem with gay people wanting the same rights that married couples have but should the term be "marriage" idk my religious affiliations are not very strong anymore but "marriage" holds alot of weight for people in the Christian faith.
 
So going your logic: a Christian is incapable of having an opinion influenced by his religious beliefs because there is no factual evidence to support his faith.
 
Opinions can be substantiated with facts.

You can have an opinion that being gay is unnatural because there are still facts that support both sides of the issue.. believing that it is nurture over nature isn't too far fetched since there is yet to be genetic proof.

If you wanted to have an opinion on the matter, it would have to be stated in a manner of, "gay couples should not be allowed to marry because it encourages the acceptance of gay parents which are shown to be detrimental to the development of children raised in such an environment." That's an opinion... one that would be seen as prejudice to many, but still an opinion.

However, the belief that marriage is sacred has no facts to substantiate it, only religion/morals.

Fact: people all over the world get married.

Fact: there are churches which will perform gay marriage ceremonies.

 
I don't think I answered that in quite the right way.

An opinion can either exist in that it has facts to substantiate it, or it can exist as something that is entirely a personal opinion.. Opinions tend to be more flexible.

I think Sam Rockwell is an amazing actor. That is an opinion... can it be proven... not really, only by a lot of people agreeing, but in no way is there any moral or faith based influence there.

A belief can also be a few things, the moment your opinion's basis is from a belief, it is then a belief. Another way of using belief is something you are not likely to budge from. To say you believe in something and to say you have an opinion on something are typically pretty interchangeable, but "believe" is the stronger statement.

But again, in regards to this thread, Mary has used a belief to substantiate her claim, and therefor it is just that, a belief. Same with many other people in this thread, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with having beliefs. But beliefs aren't meant to be what laws are based on.
 
not necessarily. Religion generally promotes good moral values that when applied to ones personal life and choices, IMO, can be very beneficial. The problem i see with religion at this point, it seems unnecessary to keep the belief in a higher creator or power. This to me creates fear. (this isnt to say that someone who believes in a higher intelligence, or even flying spaghetti monster is wrong). Fear of punishment for not following the the guidelines put forth in the teachings of said religion. This is opposed to doing things because you feel they are the right thing to do, and it is the way you would want to be treated. I would love to hear some responses, but fear is the only reason I can think of for people to be so adamantly against a seemingly inconsequential (to the large majority of the population) piece of legislation. Its the fear that if they allow people to go against the word of their religion that they will in some way be punished or that there will be negative consequences in their lives. So while I agree that religion plays a huge role in the arguments against gay marriage, it is not religion in itself that is bad. I would hope that opponents of gay marriage using a religious basis in their argument would try to imagine would instead focus their religious piety on themselves and let others be, just as they would not want others views forced upon them.
 
this is obviously meant mostly for people directly using religion in their argument. But I think either way, fear is mostly to blame for the differences in opinion on this subject
 
Apparently I shouldn't assume the context in which I chose to use indistinctly defined words is enough to illustrate the meaning I intend.
 
I don't mind it at all, I just believe it shouldn't influence anything political or governmental. Or social even. Not everyone is Christian, catholic, Protestant, etc.
 
Someone (a few pages ago) asked in a post what I thought. I love MaryO and I give her tons of credit for first venturing onto NS and paving the way for other non-traditional NS users, for sticking it out through some really rude posts--both early on and recently, for FREAKING HITTING JUMPS AND RAILS AT 50 YEARS OLD, for her passion for her family, faith, friends and freeskiing, for her openness about her own personal struggles and triumphs and for having the courage to publicly express her opinions/beliefs (yup, I read the whole thread--WHEW!) even though she knew many (me included) would disagree. I hope people take the time to read MaryO's post above and give her credit for being open to acceptance. We all can evolve as long as we are open. It took President Obama a long time to come around to acceptance of gay marriage--and he's the most high-profile progressive politician in the country! Name-calling and hateful language are counter-productive and, well...hateful. And, yeah, we can like and love people we disagree with. I like and love MaryO. And my political views are progressive/liberal.
 
Absolutely wrong Evan. You're terribly misinformed on history. Lincoln was a conservative. The lead speaker of the house in 1862 Thaddeus Stevens who was a republican "called for total war against the rebellion to include emancipation of slaves, arguing that emancipation, by forcing the loss of enslaved labor, would ruin the rebel economy." Roger B. Taney, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court at this time period whom it should be noted was a Democrat, was the decisive force in Dred Scott v. Sandford. (look it up if you've never heard of it, court ruled black people are not citizens under the constitution, can never be, and can't be freed because freeing them would be a violation of due process.)

Good try though.
 
This thread is uncomfortable to read. Can we just agree to disagree? Your beliefs on gay marriage are not going to be changed due to an argument - especially not one on an internet forum. While I personally think my home state made a great decision by legalizing gay marriage, I respect Mary-O's opinion to the contrary, and will leave it at that.
 
But it is unfair to say the parties then were the same ones that exist today. Most now red southern states were democrats, and pretty racist and most minorities were republican. Their roles on social issues outside of things like welfare and taxes have flipped.
 
Yes, but at the same time, Its the 21st fucking century. Not the 60's. People need to cut it with the bigotry and intolerance.
 
Except for the poll tax, jim crowe laws, lynching, grandfather clause, and the inability of minorities to et jobs. But besides that yeah totally the same as the 60s

 
in the mean time i would like to point you to the middle east, and the south. just because there are laws doesnt mean everyone is suddenly tolerant.
 
Yes but now the racism is more personal and not as obvious in society. Every race still has equal rights in this country and they are all protected. Sure everyone isn't tolerant but you are stupid if you are comparing racism in the 60s to racism now
 
You are disagreeing with the whole gay community and saying that their personal views are wrong, so why can't Andy disagree with you?
 
who the fuck is that? apparently somebody with an opinion, what an asshole

quick, somebody burn down a chick-fil-a
 
literally all i got from this thread is that someone overreacted to MaryO, -shitstain- got in a fight with the entire NSG, and people hate on other people in love. glad i live in such a world. NOT
 
you idiot, in the 1800's republican = democrat by today's terms. Now, there are obviously some differences, but the repubs back then were liberal and demos 'conservatives'. It was much different and Eheath is mostly correct, I believe.
 
Yes it can i never said it couldn't but it just gives some people some guidelines that people feel that they would not follow without religion. All this can be acheived without religion too but some people feel that they need religion to reinforce this.
 
this thread is still "we need to be tolerant and accepting of other peoples lives, choices, beliefs and opinions, but fuck anyone who's life, choices, beliefs and opinions dont fit exactly within my standards"some of the most ass backwards thinking ive ever heard..

at least a couple people with some ACTUAL open mindedness and tolerance are coming out.

 
Yes but they are frowned upon. I don't think you realize how bad it was for the blacks back in the 60s before the civil rights. They had fire hoses sprayed on them. Dogs sicked on them. They were whipped in the streets. Yes there isn't a perfect tolerance for blacks and there never will be. All I said is that it has vastly improved since the 60s and it has.
 
hahaha funny. i like it.

Also to all in this thread going aginst gay mairrage. What if one of your children turned out gay and wanted to get married?
 
My kids won't turn out gay, I'm a God fearing Christian. I pray for things like that to make sure that if I ever have kids they respect Their lord and savior and follow his commands.

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Long whatever to thread

But seriously perspective is a bitch for people. A lot of people can't put themselves in the other persons shoes. If you want to understand somebody, hell even if you just want to better your own argument, you need to look at it from their perspective and try to understand why they see things the way it is.

You don't have to agree with them in the end but at least you will understand them. Before you can love you must first understand. I'm not saying that you have to accept them, but how can you love as God wants you if you make no efforts to understand your fellow humans.

I'm all about freedom of speech but if you put your opinions especially about a sensitive subject out on the internet, you'd shouldn't be surprised if you find some backlash coming your way. Was this thread necessary? Probably not, but it still is an important issue and for many people a very relevant one.

For some of the people in this thread posting about how terrible it is people are hating on her for her opinions. When I encounter a racist person, I'm not going to say "I don't agree but I respect your opinion."

I know everyone wants to be overly civil but I don't think it's necessary to post about how you admire somebodies strength and courage to stick to and post about their poorly thought out opinions.

Coming from a religious background I understand, but that doesn't mean I have to respect it.

At the same time I've met plenty of people with conflicting beliefs on different issues that could argue a solid case. I may not agree with them but it made me respect them and their beliefs. I could understand why they came to that conclusion even though I felt differently.

/My laundry is done, goodbye

Sparknotes: YOLO SWAG
 
You're the one who's got it backwards. It's more like "we need to be tolerant and accepting of other peoples lives, choices, beliefs and opinions, but fuck anyone who wants to impose their beliefs on others in a way that restricts their basic freedoms". Seems fair enough to me - those advocating gay marriage on here aren't suggesting Christians should have to start marrying people of the same sex, they're just saying that they shouldn't be able to stop others doing so because of their beliefs.
 
yea seriously, I don't condemn anything if it could potentially make my kid happy. Whether it's the joy of marrying the same sex or the endorphin rush of stealing a purse.
 
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