MARY O'NEIL DOESNT SUPPORT GAY MARIAGE

Nah dude I'm not talking about Provincetown in general. I'm talking about flamboyant gay people. But thats what I'm saying I do not like. The whole thing you said about being a girl on the inside and being loud and obnoxious.

I talked to friends today to see what they thought about what I said. They all agreed with me. Maybe its just my friends and age group, but whatever.
 
i see your point but you're defending someone who was stereotyping gay people as flamboyant in gay marriage thread, i agree there should be less restraint but people need to be more careful in the way that they phrase things so as not to offend
 
I can't believe some of the fucking arguments I am reading right now... Okay so you don't like how some gay people make a big deal about their sexual orientation and are overtly flamboyant, okay guess what me too I also think it is kind of annoying because frankly I don't really care about that aspect of anyways personal life... But holy shit I am not going to tell them "hey I think you're an inferior citizen with respect to myself and you don't deserve equal treatment in the eye of our government because of it". Like seriously just because something may annoy you are actually letting that small annoyance turn into actual hate and being against equal rights for that certain group of people?

Some of you kids are super selfish, wtf is wrong you?
 
i dont think he was stereotyping all gay people, as a whole, as flamboyant. he was saying that he doesnt like gay people that are flamboyant, thats very different.
 
I think this is probably one of favourite quotes:

“Our culture has accepted two huge lies. The first is that if you disagree with someone’s lifestyle, you must fear or hate them. The second is that to love someone means you agree with everything they believe or do. Both are nonsense. You don’t have to compromise convictions to be compassionate.”

- Rick Warren
 
There are way bigger issues that governments should be focusing on. Gay people should be allowed to do as they please and marry each other. End of story.
 
who in this thread is saying we should "subjugate an entire class of citizens and deny them basic rights"?

just because you dont believe in gay marriage, or dont support it, doesnt mean you are subjugating an entire class of citizens and denying them basic rights. it just means you dont personally believe that marriage pertains to homosexuals.

i find it funny how you and the "accepting" crowd, claim to be tolerant and accepting yet are the ones shunning people for a simple belief. id call that the complete opposite of accepting and tolerant. maybe someone believes in a certain religion that believes marriage is between a man and a woman, maybe their definition of marriage just happens to be between a man and a woman, i dont see why this is a bad thing.

i personally believe in separation of church and state, so i dont think religion should dictate the definition of marriage. i guess you might be able to argue that marriage IS a religious practice, but ive also heard the opposite argued. if they believe that marriage IS a religious practice, then i could see why people who belong to certain religions would have a problem with it and even try to stop it. if thats what they believe and they want to peacefully act on it, i think they have every right to do so. but then people who believe the opposite should also have every right to act on their beliefs as well.

again, i find it pretty ironic how you claim to be all about acceptance and tolerance yet your entire post is full of hate for anyone who doesnt share the same beliefs as you. you're just as hateful and unaccepting as the pickup driving, confederate flag waving, racist and homophobic rednecks you hate. they hate people for their sexual orientation and race, you hate people for having beliefs and opinions, your not accepting, you really dont believe in it. you've made that completely obvious.
 
Getting legally married grants couples certain legal rights that non- married couples do not receive, so in states where gay marriage isn't allowed homosexual couples cannot gain the same legal standing as straight couples because they can't get married.

MISCONCEPTIONS:

1) Marriage isn't only a religious title, in the US it's also secular and gay marriage bills would address the secular side of marriage and grant gay couples the full legal privileges that straight couples currently enjoy.

2) Gay marriage bills, as I said above, address the secular side of marriage. It would be unconstitutional for the government to force any religious organization to perform gay marriages or accept homosexuality.

3) There is a fair amount of evidence that there is a genetic basis for homosexuality, and it occurs in nature among non- human species, even among some species that mate primarily for reproduction, not pleasure. We haven't identified which genes play a role in homosexuality; but genetics is far more complicated than your high school and introductory college classes make it sound and researchers are focusing far more time on genetic based illnesses so it'll probably be a number of years before specific gene sequences related to homosexuality are discovered. And even of homosexuality turns out to be unnatural (unlikely) WHEN DID REPRODUCTION BECOME REQUIRED FOR MARRIAGE? Should we also ban marriage between infertile couples or people who don't want to have children?

If gay people piss you off for some retarded spoiled middle class white kid reason why should that have any effect whatsoever on their legal rights and standings? If gay marriage becomes legal I'm guessing many gay people will stop acting as flamboyant.

If gay marriage pisses you off because of your religious beliefs remember this is AMERICA, where religion and state are separated by law. IT'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL TO ALLOW RELIGIOUS BELIEFS TO DIRECT GOVERNMENT POLICY, so religion should have no role in the debate over the secular aspects of gay marriage. If you oppose it personally and/ or in your church that's your right, and anyone who argues against that is also trying to deny a group of people their constitutional rights.

 
Sounds like you hate annoying people, as most do. Being an annoying or not has nothing to do with gay marriage.
 
Again, You gotta be loud to get your point across. Your group of friends just sound like rich, intolerant dicks so I'll just leave it at that.
 
I'm totally for gay marriage don't get me wrong. I only got into this argument because eheath insinuated the current republicans were slave owners. Like I said if we gave gays the ability to collect welfare(didn't mention the other legal reasons) it would be the same exact thing.
 
What's just as ridiculous as not supporting homosexuality is the casual "Yes, I support gays, but if they ever flirt with me, I don't like it." This implies that gay people are animals of some sort only sought for sex. Believe it or not, gay people aren't attracted to every person of the same sex. Crazy, right? No. Does every person of the opposite sex try and flirt with you in public? Of course not. It's the same principle with gay people. Fuck, when are you people going to figure out that a person's sexuality does not direct every motive of their life?
 
yup

OIiLlex.gif
 
Provincetown is the shit man! If you have that much of a problem with the gay population to distract from the community as a whole, you have a problem. I as well go there every summer, and I have no problems whatsoever with what you seem to dislike. In fact, I kind of love it. It's awesome to see the different ways people live their lives, and it's cool to be put in a situation where you are almost the minority. I'm not saying it's that extreme, but it gives you a new perspective on homosexuality, and I can see you drew the wrong conclusion from that. Gay people can be hilarious and I personally love hanging out with them. I'm getting kind of tired with the whole "I don't have a problem with gay people, but they can't do it in public" mentality that you and a couple of people I know have adopted. Grow up, and realize you aren't always going to like what you see. Just because you can see gay people interacting in public doesn't mean you are automatically gay as well, so why should you care? Homosexuality and heterosexuality are just words, we are all people, and we all deserve the same rights. Gay people are cool, and you don't see them complaining about straight people showing affection in public.
 
I can respect what your saying. I guess I'm not really old enough to realize that everyone has their own life and I have nothing to do with it. Also lets get this straight...

I FUCKING LOVE PROVINCETOWN

I love the town, its really laid back, and I guess it might just be that I am annoyed by annoying people and not gay people.
 
So you're saying that hating people who hate blacks, gays, non-christians, and women because they are black, or gay, or not a christian, or a woman is just as bad as ACTUALLY hating blacks, gays, non-christians, and women because they are black, or gay, or not a christian, or a woman?

Yeah, that's pretty dumb.
 
guys for fuck sake, homosexuality is not gonna effect the church ceremony at all, hell the church (catholic church) wont even recognize the marriage, and whatever then thats fine. If two men want to marry for whatever reason, economic, love whatever then let them go to the courthouse and get the license and then do a ceremony. it does not hurt you and if you think that they should not it not, a state marriage and a church marriage are totally different.

if you dont support gay marriage then dont attend the wedding.
 
im saying that claiming to be accepting of everyone and their differences while hating anyone with conflicting viewpoints is fucking retarded and the opposite of accepting.

and i wasnt talking so much about hating people "who hate blacks, gays, non-christians and women" im more talking about people who have altering views and beliefs. theres a big difference between hating someone simply for being a different race, sex, or sexual orientation, and hating someone because they have different beliefs than you.

one is outright hate, one is a belief. i want to make a clear distinction between the two so it doesnt look like im defending hate.

just because someone doesnt believe in gay marriage because their religion defines it as between a man and a woman doesnt mean they are homophobic, hate gays, and are against any gay rights. the few religious people i know dont believe in gay marriage, they dont condone it within their family and church, but actually recognize the separation of church and state, and just dont want it to become a part of their religion.

im saying that hating somebody purely because of they believe is just as bad as hating someone purely because of their race, sex, sexual orientation, etc.

and i just find it extremely stupid that one of those groups of haters claims to be "accepting"
 
THIS. no problem whatsoever with gays, its just when theyre in ur face like "HEY FUCKING LOOK AT ME IM GAY AND I KISS BOYS" that it gets annoying. do i march in a parade declaring how straight i am? no.
 
is this directed at me?

because like i said earlier, i believe in the separation of church and state, and regardless of that, im completely ok with gay marriage. i dont necessarily think of marriage and gay marriage as completely equal practices, i associate marriage more with a religious tradition while gay marriage i associate more with just a union between two people who love eachother. shit even if gays want to get married through a religious institution, im all for them trying, just dont cry when it doesnt work out too well..

but in defense of the anti gay marriage people, when you associate marriage as a union between a man and woman, a tradition practiced by your religion for hundreds or thousands of years. i dont see how its hateful to not support gay marriage when its so obviously not a part of your religion, beliefs, tradition, etc.. like i said before, the religious people i know dont support gay marriage within their church, family, and religion, but are completely fine with homosexuality and civil unions. they just believe marriage is between a man and a woman because to them, thats what they were raised on and what their family, religion, etc.. believe. even if they arent religious, some people dont believe in gay marriage because they associate marriage with a man and woman having kids, raising a family, continuing the family name, etc..

again, its not very "accepting" of you to stereotype everyone who doesnt believe in gay marriage as gay hating anti-homosexuality everything, ignorant, etc..

you dont seem to be able to differentiate between people who hate and people who have beliefs. they are not the same thing.

its your belief, and my belief, that gays should be able to get married, have civil unions, whatever you want to call it. and its religious (or some non religious) peoples belief that marriage is between a man and a woman. neither side is ignorant until pointless hate's involved.
 
Dude, get off your fucking high horse. I agree with your stance on gay marriage but the way you are arguing it you are coming off as an arrogant prick with a superiority complex. Really ugly personality. Just because someones view conflicts with yours and what you believe is so obviously right doesn't give you the right to be such a condescending prick.

"People who believe in acceptance cannot just idly sit by and accept your "views and beliefs" of persecution and warrantless hatred, because that goes against ALL THEY STAND FOR."

Oh yeah, so how do you fix this? With mindless insults and hate against them. Because hating the haters for being hateful is so productive. You make good points, but because they are surrounded by all this bigotry they are cancelled out and not even noted. Chill the fuck out and make your points without all the needed hate.
 
In relation to your issues with stereotyping, it's my belief that in general it's fine to dislike the act, not the person. Working towards understanding as to how one's views can oppress the rights of others isn't easy, especially not when you feel as if you're being victimized in the process.
 
The only reason I called you out was because before this I genuinely liked you and thought you were a cool guy. But as I stupidly was reading through this thread I was getting angrier and angrier at yours and others posts. Just because you don't agree with people doesn't give you the right to be a prick to them. No matter how stupid or naive their views are.

Yes, if you are trying to set out your points you should use logic. If you they continue to refute this like they will you walk away. I get why you keep replying, but your posts are getting longer and more insulting instead of just letting it go. As you said logic probably won't get through to them but neither will blatant insults and gifs.

Yeah humans are fucked, these issues really bring out the worst in people too. I understand that and it makes me mad too. It just infuriated me the extremes you were going to purely to insult people because they don't agree with you when you seem like a nice guy the rest of the time.

And I know the definition of bigotry. Most of the people refuting the issue of gay marriage beliefs are based in religion. Such as the catalyst to this arguments MaryO's views are.
 
Monogamous unions pre-date established religion, arising around the dawn of man, and ten's of thousands of years before the three Abrahamic religions - arguably the three most prevalent religions in our society. Marriage is also evident in primitive Amazonian, African and Asian tribes which have no contact with the developed world. In the religious aspect, marriage encompasses all of them, whether they by polytheistic or monotheistic. Marriage transcends belief systems; for it is commonplace in all, yet been exercised independently from religion for thousands of years. So the idea that followers of some religion can complain that allowing marriage - an ancient ritual with an origin unrelated to their faith - of same-sex couples should not be allowed because it contradicts their religious ideology is a truly barbaric.
 
Can we agree that MLK was a pretty accepting guy? Good. Still, i don't think he accepted the views of a racist south (even the "milder" passive racists). They said they didn't support slavery, but didn't want blacks to have the rights whites did. Still he didn't accept them, he stood up to them. And said we should all be equal, and he was willing to stand up to anyone who tried to stop equality. So maybe their opinion is different, but it is wrong. Wrong in that every person was created equal, and yet people still fight to prevent it. So maybe you're fundamentally against gay marraige, or even gays in general, but it is not your place to limit their rights. They are just as much American and just as much human as anyone else, and anyone who opposes true equality is a bigot, regardless of religion.

How about all pre-marital sex is made illegal? Thats in the bible. That violates the sacred christian ritual of marriage. Or what about divorces? Those should be illegal too. If you are willing to argue that gay's shouldn't be able to married based on religion and tradition, you had better be damn well ready to fight for the rest of the bible to.
 
just because someone doesnt believe in, or doesnt agree with gay marriage, doesnt mean they're denying gays their basic rights or treating them as 2nd class citizens. you can have beliefs and not push them on others believe it or not.

and just think about this a little bit..

in OUR culture, we've until recently, defined and known marriage to be between a man and a woman, whether for religious reasons, to make babies and raise a family, carry on their name/genes, etc.. whatever the reason, we've defined and known marriage in that way for a long ass time, and now that definition that we have known forever is being pushed to change to something very different, and naturally, people arent going to be comfortable with changing the definition of a long practiced tradition to something that does not fit with what we have known marriage to be. I dont think its so much that people who dont believe in gay marriage AND dont want it to be legal are trying to deny gays their rights, its more that they dont want the definition of mariage to change to include two people of the same sex, its not that they're saying "you dont have the right to be married" its more that they're saying you cant physically get married because thats not what marriage is. as a gay marriage supporter its even hard for me to call gay marriage a basic right. and while im all for gay marriage, i can completely understand people wanting to stick with tradition and not going against their religious views just because "times are changing"

now, i do think a civil union is definitely a basic right, 2 people who love each other deserve the right to be with each other and have most of if not all the rights of a heterosexual couple. i feel like a huge part of this debate is simply over the word marriage and its definition.

 
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