Marker Kingpin or dyafit beast? First tech binding help

[supersquid]

Whats up ns, I recently bought a pair of on3p BG and want to put a tech binding on them. I like to ski aggressively and hit every jump and pillow I can. I also need a binding that is compatible with a boot that i can use in both the tech and an sth2 16 binding. So if you have any boot suggestions that would be great to. Let me know what i should get please!

 

[OldNJaded]

Personally, I'd stick with the Sth's and get some Day Makers www.daymakertouring.com

Next you could debate Markers recent patent infringement lawsuit with G3 causing Marker to pull the Kingpin from future markets. I can imagine they will be cheaper now but you may or may not have issues should a warranty need arise.

In which case the Dynafit Beast would be the best option I suppose.

If I recall a certain number of K2's boots swings both ways, (alpine-tech)

Happy hunting!

**This post was edited on Jun 29th 2017 at 11:39:55am

 

[supersquid]

I have sth2 on my park and pow bindings, just didnt want to buy two pairs of boots. I know some boots like k2 can handle both and ik some boots have interchangeable soles. Looks like ill be going for dynafit beasts.

 

[profa_212]

I'd go with the kingpin. The heel is more confidence inspiring from what I have heard. And they will be much lighter than day makers. read the blister reviews on both the beast and the kingpin....that might help you a little.

I wouldn't go daymakers unless you are only doing very short tours to really burly lines. They add an extra 3lbs to your feet and you also need quite a bit of room in your bag to put them for the way down. Along with less natural movement and how high you will be off the ski, it won't be the most pleasurable. That being said...they could have a place in your quiver if you are doing short tours to burly lines that require a burly alpine binding.

 

[supersquid]

Do yourself a favor and read some reviews on the beasts.

All the reviews I have read have said they are a pretty solid binding. Links to any bad reviews would be helpful. Also the beasts are half off on backcountry right now and the marker kingpins are going to be discontinued this year pending the lawsuit.

 

[supersquid]

I'd go with the kingpin. The heel is more confidence inspiring from what I have heard. And they will be much lighter than day makers. read the blister reviews on both the beast and the kingpin....that might help you a little.

I wouldn't go daymakers unless you are only doing very short tours to really burly lines. They add an extra 3lbs to your feet and you also need quite a bit of room in your bag to put them for the way down. Along with less natural movement and how high you will be off the ski, it won't be the most pleasurable. That being said...they could have a place in your quiver if you are doing short tours to burly lines that require a burly alpine binding.

Definitely not going daymakers haha, this is gonna be my first and only tech setup in my quiver, so thats why i want a burlier binding for some bigger lines.

 

[OldNJaded]

I just like my Pivot's. I've done plenty a long tour on the Daymakers. They are great if you don't mind the weight, they traverse better than my Salomon Guardians.I have an ABS with a 40L zip-on, so yeah you need room in the pack but I'd rather be locked down in my alpines and carry the extra weight.

Personal preference above all, what ever makes you comfortable is ultimately the best setup.

 

[cydwhit]

All the reviews I have read have said they are a pretty solid binding. Links to any bad reviews would be helpful. Also the beasts are half off on backcountry right now and the marker kingpins are going to be discontinued this year pending the lawsuit.

Don't go Beasts man. They're discontinued for a reason. Heavy, clunky, pain to use, not that durable, no flat walk mode, you have to mod your boots. I'd go ION or Rad 2.0 over Beasts without a shadow of hesitation.

 

[patagonialuke]

All the reviews I have read have said they are a pretty solid binding. Links to any bad reviews would be helpful. Also the beasts are half off on backcountry right now and the marker kingpins are going to be discontinued this year pending the lawsuit.

Here's what Brian said about the Beast 14's downhill performance in Blister's Touring Binding review:

"Jonathan has spent less time than I have on the Fischer Tour Freeride 14, but I was able to add it to my backcountry A/B-testing over the last two weeks. Looking at its big, beefy heelpiece, I went into this test expecting to find its performance to be similar to the Kingpin.

Unfortunately, I was underwhelmed. After several back-to-back test sessions with both the Kingpin 13 and Radical FT 2.0, I don’t feel like the Tour Freeride 14 / Beast 14 offers any downhill performance improvement over the Radical 2.0. While I was surprised, in hindsight, I suppose I shouldn’t have been. The big, beefy heelpiece does not clamp down on the heel of a ski boot like the Kingpin does. The metal prongs appear to simply be there to assist in step-in and release. And it is worth noting that Dynafit makes no claims about any improved skiing performance in the Beast 14 or Beast 16 on their website. They only claim that there are improved elasticity and release characteristics (over the Radical FT 1.0, we presume; there is no mention made about the FT 2.0, which post-dates the Beast 16."

**This post was edited on Jun 29th 2017 at 7:40:39pm

 

[supersquid]

Here's what Brian said about the Beast 14's downhill performance in Blister's Touring Binding review:

"Jonathan has spent less time than I have on the Fischer Tour Freeride 14, but I was able to add it to my backcountry A/B-testing over the last two weeks. Looking at its big, beefy heelpiece, I went into this test expecting to find its performance to be similar to the Kingpin.

Unfortunately, I was underwhelmed. After several back-to-back test sessions with both the Kingpin 13 and Radical FT 2.0, I don’t feel like the Tour Freeride 14 / Beast 14 offers any downhill performance improvement over the Radical 2.0. While I was surprised, in hindsight, I suppose I shouldn’t have been. The big, beefy heelpiece does not clamp down on the heel of a ski boot like the Kingpin does. The metal prongs appear to simply be there to assist in step-in and release. And it is worth noting that Dynafit makes no claims about any improved skiing performance in the Beast 14 or Beast 16 on their website. They only claim that there are improved elasticity and release characteristics (over the Radical FT 1.0, we presume; there is no mention made about the FT 2.0, which post-dates the Beast 16."

**This post was edited on Jun 29th 2017 at 7:40:39pm

Appreciate that, looks like beasts are off of the table then. Besides the kingpin which wont be here for 2018 it looks like another option would be the radical 2.0s and g3 ions. Kinda weird how you cant really go wrong with alpine bindings (fks, sth2, jesters, attack 16s) they are all great, but at/tech bindings seem to have a lot of faults.

 

[supersquid]

Lots of helpful info here guys. Im starting to wonder if I should just slap some frame binders on there and never really have to worry about it. Then again I plan on doing at least a two day tour my first year and dont want to be hating myself...

 

[patagonialuke]

Though they're not currently producing them, I wouldn't count out the possibility of Kingpins being available, especially if they settle the lawsuit somewhat soon. But if you indeed cannot get your hands on a pair, then yeah, Rad 2's, Ions, or Vipecs would probably be your best bet.

It's also worth noting that Fritschi is coming out with their version of a tech binding with an alpine-like heel, called the Tecton, in the fall. However, as a new product, it's definitely not proven yet, but it's at least interesting.

FWIW, I ski Rad 2's and have been decently satisfied. I've had a couple pre-releases while skiing very firm, bumped up conditions at speed (both times were in the resort, if that matters). In soft snow, I've had no issues, and only really notice the lack of power transmission on firm snow at speed. The rotating toe can be quirky to step into (they're coming out with a new version in the fall that supposedly fixes this), but yeah, overall pretty satisfied.

 

[supersquid]

Though they're not currently producing them, I wouldn't count out the possibility of Kingpins being available, especially if they settle the lawsuit somewhat soon. But if you indeed cannot get your hands on a pair, then yeah, Rad 2's, Ions, or Vipecs would probably be your best bet.

It's also worth noting that Fritschi is coming out with their version of a tech binding with an alpine-like heel, called the Tecton, in the fall. However, as a new product, it's definitely not proven yet, but it's at least interesting.

FWIW, I ski Rad 2's and have been decently satisfied. I've had a couple pre-releases while skiing very firm, bumped up conditions at speed (both times were in the resort, if that matters). In soft snow, I've had no issues, and only really notice the lack of power transmission on firm snow at speed. The rotating toe can be quirky to step into (they're coming out with a new version in the fall that supposedly fixes this), but yeah, overall pretty satisfied.

Hmm, well Im primarily gonna try and find some powder lines not reachable any other way, I wont be using them on firmer condition, little to no inbounds skiing

 

[clorox]

I'd def go for the kingpins. Last I checked, blue tomato had them for pretty cheap.

 

[PacificRimJob]

TECTON..

 

[mikemac]

Lots of helpful info here guys. Im starting to wonder if I should just slap some frame binders on there and never really have to worry about it. Then again I plan on doing at least a two day tour my first year and dont want to be hating myself...

If you're definitely looking for a tech toe, I would probably recommend the G3. The uphill performance is incredible compared to a frame binding like the Marker Duke, and the downhill is pretty darn good. I was able to stomp some pretty big drops on them, but I did release off the toe quite a few times (especially when breaking through multiple layers of snow). I'm a pretty big guy (6 ft 215) and I ski aggressively and to be honest I don't think there is a tech toe on the market that can really stand up to a guy my size skiing on them in a more freestyle aggressive manner. Pretty much have to real it in and ski a little differently when in the backcountry. Kingpins are tempting because they do have an awesome heelpiece, but there is so much plastic on that binding when all other tech toes are almost 100% metal. I knew 4-5 people skiing kingpins this year and each person had some plastic break in different places and lots of unfortunate releases. That being said, I did see Collin Collins post a solid windells jump line on IG skiing kingpins so they're definitely a burly binding, but as a consumer and not a sponsored athlete, I'd be concerned about durability/longevity.

I skied Dukes on Dalbello Lupos and they were definitely reliable, but I had mixed feelings about the performance. I accomplished my goal of having an inbounds/out of bounds pow ski but the Dukes are so damn heavy and you're basically 2+ inches away from your bases so "performance" for stuff like carving a spin wasn't awesome. They definitely don't release as much like a tech toe does, but I don't think they necessarily ski that much better than the g3.

Honestly, I'm really thinking of trying out CAST Touring this year because I hate how far off your edges frames put your feet, and I just don't trust pins on bigger stuff. CAST seems like the best of both worlds but I haven't had a chance to get my hands on them so I'm not sure how reliable they are.

As for boots, I'd look at Tecnica Cochise or Dalbello Lupos TI. Both are really solid alpine boots with tech toe inserts. They're basically indistinguishable from an alpine or freeride boot, except they have tech toe inserts and swap-able touring or freeride soles.

As I said above, I skied the Dalbello Lupos for 2 years (no tech toe, but walk mode for frames). Bomber boots, basically a stiffer Krypton/park boot beefed up for big mountain. Didn't know about the tech insert option when I first moved out west, but that's what I would've done. Skied some shitty K2 tech toe bindings with my G3s last year and really didn't like them, but that's probably because they weren't a great fit, got em for free, and never did any work on them. Got a peep at this years Dalbello Lupo AX 125 (this years Lupo TI) at the shop the other day and they look fresh as hell, fit great with a comfy moldable liner and 3 different flex/stiffness options (125 being the highest). Unless the Cochise is a great fit (although I'm usually not a Tecnica fit guy when it comes to boots) I'm definitely gonna spring for the Dalbellos this year and finally have the one boot tech toe inbounds quiver.

Here's a review online of the new boots I found:http://www.onthebelay.com/en/2017/03/16/dalbello-lupo-ax-125c-2017-2018-review/

 

[PacificRimJob]

Personally, I'd stick with the Sth's and get some Day Makers www.daymakertouring.com

Theyre sooo heavy though. And they take up a crapload of space in your pack.

Fine for shorter tours and stuff, but damn would they suck to lug around.

I'd say go with kingpins... or Fritschi Tectons like I said above.

 

[OldNJaded]

Theyre sooo heavy though. And they take up a crapload of space in your pack.

Fine for shorter tours and stuff, but damn would they suck to lug around.

I'd say go with kingpins... or Fritschi Tectons like I said above.

Lug them around all day, WITHOUT question. 880 grams isn't shit. I smoke more than that in the skin track.

 

[PacificRimJob]

Lug them around all day, WITHOUT question. 880 grams isn't shit. I smoke more than that in the skin track.

880? Accoding to the site its It's 670 grams per side.. so 1340 grams.. plus the weight of your alpine bindings, which are all about 2kg-2.2kg

2200 + 1340.

So you're lugging around 3 1/2kg.. fiddling the fuck out of shit, and then storing 1.34 of that in your pack on the way down, along with skins, aqua, food, layers, etc. (this means you better have a pretty big pack)

Kingpins are about 1.5kg for the set, and mean you can carry a smaller pack. I'll be the weight wiener here and take the Kingpins haha.

 

[OldNJaded]

880? Accoding to the site its It's 670 grams per side.. so 1340 grams.. plus the weight of your alpine bindings, which are all about 2kg-2.2kg

2200 + 1340.

So you're lugging around 3 1/2kg.. fiddling the fuck out of shit, and then storing 1.34 of that in your pack on the way down, along with skins, aqua, food, layers, etc. (this means you better have a pretty big pack)

Kingpins are about 1.5kg for the set, and mean you can carry a smaller pack. I'll be the weight wiener here and take the Kingpins haha.

Gen 1 DM's are 880 a side. I don't mind the weight. Usually can manage everything in a 25L pack unless I'm doing a multi day then it's the 40L. If I'm building hits, It's way heavier as I take several tools up with me. The DMOS shovels take up more room than my DM's in the pack.

Heavy? Yes, but really not unmanageable. I prefer having my Look Pivots on my feet. Nothing about my setups is light so weight hasn't ever been an issue for me.

 

[mikemac]

I prefer having my Look Pivots on my feet. Nothing about my setups is light so weight hasn't ever been an issue for me.

This is something I'm really starting to realize. I'm Expecting Pivot or STH performance and I just can't find any touring binding that feels right on the downhill. It's honestly the main reason I don't tour as much as I'd like to. Other than Day makers is there any other options? Anyone ever use the CAST system?

 

[cobra_commander]

I keep wanting lange RS performance in the BC but find the boots don't do that. everything is a compromise. KingPin's ski great.

 

[mikemac]

Though they're not currently producing them, I wouldn't count out the possibility of Kingpins being available, especially if they settle the lawsuit somewhat soon.

I keep wanting lange RS performance in the BC but find the boots don't do that. everything is a compromise. KingPin's ski great.

Just heard from my older bro who's a shop manager that kingpins are officially out this year. Marker is not realeasing a new one for 17/18. Don't know if this has to do with the lawsuit or too many customer service/warranty claims. If you want kingpins better find some of last years online before there all gone because there won't be new ones

 

[cobra_commander]

Your older bro doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about. There will be plenty of KingPins arriving stateside for sale this year.

 

[mikemac]

Your older bro doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about. There will be plenty of KingPins arriving stateside for sale this year.

I didn't really talk to him too much but i asked him if he had the new Kingpins yet bc all the Jackson shops are doing winter inventory this week and he said they weren't getting any bc Marker wasn't making them. That's all I know and its obviously second hand and I didn't have time to get into it any further. Do you have any details? Are you a rep or have any inside info?

 

[Ghini]

I didn't really talk to him too much but i asked him if he had the new Kingpins yet bc all the Jackson shops are doing winter inventory this week and he said they weren't getting any bc Marker wasn't making them. That's all I know and its obviously second hand and I didn't have time to get into it any further. Do you have any details? Are you a rep or have any inside info?

Kingpins will be sold in the US aswell this winter. Buy them, best option for now. Tectons has some problems with the heel gap. Beasts are just stupid. Your brother was correct about the Kingpin, but only for a couple of days. Things are setteled now and they will be available in the US this winter.

 

[ESB]

Kingpins are the shit. They're my first tech binding, so I can't make comparisons to other tech setups, but compared to frame bindings it's a world of difference. They're way lighter, your boot is much closer to the ski for more feeling and power transmission, and having the pivot point right on the toe in touring mode, with no extra weight under your foot while you step... going uphill is actually fun. Once you go pin, you'll never go back.

Stability-wise, I've watched pros stomp 60-foot cornice drops on the Kingpins without blinking an eye.

For my first tech setup, I picked up the Scarpa Freedom SL boots and am extremely satisfied. When buying a boot for tech bindings I'd prefer to go with a trusted company that's been making touring-specific boots for a long time, rather than the companies that are now jumping on the bandwagon and sticking tech inserts into the toes of their alpine ski boots.

 

[PacificRimJob]

I keep wanting lange RS performance in the BC but find the boots don't do that. everything is a compromise. KingPin's ski great.

Cochise 120/130. Absolutely fantastic performer. Polyether shell is heavier, but it's extremely reactive. I feel like it's actually a better performer than the RX series, at least when it's a warmer day.

 

[cobra_commander]

Cochise 120/130. Absolutely fantastic performer. Polyether shell is heavier, but it's extremely reactive. I feel like it's actually a better performer than the RX series, at least when it's a warmer day.

I own and ski an RS, XT FT, and current Cochise.

 

[PacificRimJob]

I own and ski an RS, XT FT, and current Cochise.

Cool. I FEEL like it is given my experience with both. Scientifically I can't say, but nonetheless.

Lange's plastic compounds are generally more thermoreactive. Springtime temps will make an RS or RX mucho soft.