Magnetic ski bindings...?

Malcolmstoddart

Malcolmstoddart

Member
Alright, well I know there are a few issues that come to mind with this:

1. Release. Obviously if the magnet is strong enough, how tf do you get your ski boot off. I would think that an electro magnet would work for this, but that leads into the second main issue.

2. Weight. I know magnet forces are weak (relative to other forces), so it may require a large magnet, which I assume is heavy. How heavy? I have literally no idea.

Does anyone know anything about this and how feasible this would be??
 
i would be dope

i mean it works with snowboards but i guess theres a lot less forces going on there
 
Normal bindings are good, I agree, but if the magnet system is lighter than a regular binding it would be incredible. It would also look so sick.

14269786:DolansLebensraum said:
I dont see mag bindings working as well as a typical spring system. Normal bindings today are pretty fantastic.
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14269787:Malcolmstoddart said:
Normal bindings are good, I agree, but if the magnet system is lighter than a regular binding it would be incredible. It would also look so sick.
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Why would it look sick?
 
I feel like it would look way better to just have a ski boot on top of a ski without a bulky binding.

Sort of like the JSkis velcro bindings lmao

14269789:DolansLebensraum said:
Why would it look sick?
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**This post was edited on Apr 2nd 2021 at 4:13:33am
 
14269792:Malcolmstoddart said:
I feel like it would look way better to just have a ski boot on top of a ski without a bulky binding.

Sort of like the JSkis velcro bindings lmao

**This post was edited on Apr 2nd 2021 at 4:13:33am
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Meh. I would be astonished if a magnetic binding could ever match performance of todays spring bindings. Springs and magnets work in very different ways. Maybe an electromagnet that pulled the plug when the binding detected enough lateral force and released the boot could work but to me its like an airplane turbofan using hollow blades instead of solid titanium. Its kind of pointless to replace something that already works very well.
 
You'd have to redesign not only the bindings but the boot as well. You'd have to create an afd/magnet that had release capabilities. Or create an all in one system since ski bindings when mounted make the ski stiffer you'd have to adjust for that. It'd be an interesting idea to have such a light setup without the toe and heel of a binding. Feel it could carry over into touring as well. Super light and probably less issues like durability and the amount of parts needed.
 
14270358:DolansLebensraum said:
Meh. I would be astonished if a magnetic binding could ever match performance of todays spring bindings. Springs and magnets work in very different ways. Maybe an electromagnet that pulled the plug when the binding detected enough lateral force and released the boot could work but to me its like an airplane turbofan using hollow blades instead of solid titanium. Its kind of pointless to replace something that already works very well.
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When knee injuries are pretty much the main downside to our normal alpine bindings wouldn't it be nice to have tech that could potentially eliminate that risk? Not saying that it would eliminate the risk of injury but why not push for the creativity and ingenuity to make skiing more enjoyable and less of a liability and risk. As a manager of a rental ski shop the potential to have a new ski binding that could make my job even easier and take out the risk to reduce liability from my position is a win win. When everyone wants to sue everyone now it'd be nice to not have that potential risk. If I or one of my technicians don't spin the correct din it comes back to me and I'll get brought into court.......and i hate getting sued. Any developments in binding technology that can reduce that is huge in my book.
 
I don’t know how smart or even if this would work. https://pbcmagnets.com/products/1200lb-double-sided-fishing-magnet?variant=32223647170618¤cy=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1sTb05_j7wIV2-zjBx3zQA6yEAQYASABEgI9-_D_BwE

 But a magnet this strong should account for the force put into skiing. Change the shape and you could adjust mount point easily. But you’d have to have some in your boots as well. Could work but I would never try.

also they are 2,98 lbs. you need two per ski, so weight would be pretty heavy

**This post was edited on Apr 3rd 2021 at 7:49:00pm
 
That's interesting, does anyone know how many lbs of force is in x amount of dins? That would be helpful for figuring out how feasible this actually is.

Also, electromagnets could be less heavy? They're also much more adjustable.

14270553:Coleg55 said:
I don’t know how smart or even if this would work. https://pbcmagnets.com/products/1200lb-double-sided-fishing-magnet?variant=32223647170618¤cy=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1sTb05_j7wIV2-zjBx3zQA6yEAQYASABEgI9-_D_BwE

 But a magnet this strong should account for the force put into skiing. Change the shape and you could adjust mount point easily. But you’d have to have some in your boots as well. Could work but I would never try.

also they are 2,98 lbs. you need two per ski, so weight would be pretty heavy

**This post was edited on Apr 3rd 2021 at 7:49:00pm
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It is far easier, lighter, and more efficient to store potential energy in the form of a spring than it is in the form of a magnet or electromagnet. Electromagnets are HEAVY. Like, dozens of pounds of copper heavy attached to a very heavy battery. And the magnetic force decreases exponentially as distance increases, whereas a spring will be linear and/or tuned to be progressive.

In a more theoretical approach, you can think of a standard binding that uses a spring as a magnetic binding in it of itself, anyways. The atoms arranged in a material rely on the electromotive force of electrons interacting with protons. When a material is stressed, these arrangements shift causing tension in the exact manner that magnets repel. When a material yields, these arrangements 'shift' farther than the magnetic force can hold, creating a new equilibrium structure. You can feel this when you play with a spring and stretch it past where it won't return to normal. In other words, it's all positive and negative depending how you look at it.

Magnets are really good at moving small things, however. Electromagnetic solenoids and motors can move pins to 'lock' a binding into place with relative low effort and weight. You then may be able to control the solenoids such that they will 'unlock' the binding mechanism allowing release dependent on input conditions. I believe this is the future of ski bindings, I am just not sure it will be in the near future.

tl:dr Use magnets to move pins to lock bindings, not as the primary force of which holds the boots to the skis.
 
14270532:DUKES said:
When knee injuries are pretty much the main downside to our normal alpine bindings wouldn't it be nice to have tech that could potentially eliminate that risk? Not saying that it would eliminate the risk of injury but why not push for the creativity and ingenuity to make skiing more enjoyable and less of a liability and risk. As a manager of a rental ski shop the potential to have a new ski binding that could make my job even easier and take out the risk to reduce liability from my position is a win win. When everyone wants to sue everyone now it'd be nice to not have that potential risk. If I or one of my technicians don't spin the correct din it comes back to me and I'll get brought into court.......and i hate getting sued. Any developments in binding technology that can reduce that is huge in my book.
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I dont want to be a naysayer but honestly being like “why not just use magnets for ski bindings?” is almost like saying “why dont we put magnets on the highway and have magnet cars levitate instead of use wheels?”

it sounds romantic on the surface but you gotta consider how many layers of shit you are going to have to break through to make something that barely works as well as a typical spring binding. Spring bindings are so optimized today that there isnt much room for improvement.

developing a magnetic binding is almost like developing a gas powered vacuum cleaner. Electric vacuum cleaners already work great. A gas powered vacuum would be new technology yes, but new does not always mean better.
 
14270597:Malcolmstoddart said:
That's interesting, does anyone know how many lbs of force is in x amount of dins? That would be helpful for figuring out how feasible this actually is.

Also, electromagnets could be less heavy? They're also much more adjustable.
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True, but yo I got a idea . No need for pins. Put a magnet in toe of boot, have another magnet that can easily attach to a binding, and boom touring binding.
 
14270659:DolansLebensraum said:
I dont want to be a naysayer but honestly being like “why not just use magnets for ski bindings?” is almost like saying “why dont we put magnets on the highway and have magnet cars levitate instead of use wheels?”

it sounds romantic on the surface but you gotta consider how many layers of shit you are going to have to break through to make something that barely works as well as a typical spring binding. Spring bindings are so optimized today that there isnt much room for improvement.

developing a magnetic binding is almost like developing a gas powered vacuum cleaner. Electric vacuum cleaners already work great. A gas powered vacuum would be new technology yes, but new does not always mean better.
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Highway safety and moving vehicles that weigh tons does not relate anywhere close to skiing. I'm just saying that innovative tech to potentially minimize the risk of injury. Like the person that posted just above me. It's not going to be in ski tech tomorrow just down the road it could be tech that we'll use daily.

Yes today's ski bindings work great.... but everything could be made better. Innovation and creativity dude. Why the example of a gas powered vacuum? When gas and fossil fuels are already on their way out, your example is poorly executed. Yes I understand the phrase "if it isn't broken, then don't fix it." but that's not how the world works, bubb.

I look at it similar to strong magnets being used as replacements for clip-in bike pedals. If the tech is already being used there in a similar way of attaching your foot to your bike pedal then down the road why can't there be similar progress in ski binding technology.

I am no way smart in the field of science and engineering but when innovation in tech can possibly reduce weight, minimize injury, minimize repairs, possibly minimize cost of production, then why not TRY.
 
Yah I’m never trusting a magnetic ski boot binding.

Now if they started making negatively polarized ski slopes and positively polarized skis I’m in for that one
 
14270762:DUKES said:
Highway safety and moving vehicles that weigh tons does not relate anywhere close to skiing. I'm just saying that innovative tech to potentially minimize the risk of injury. Like the person that posted just above me. It's not going to be in ski tech tomorrow just down the road it could be tech that we'll use daily.

Yes today's ski bindings work great.... but everything could be made better. Innovation and creativity dude. Why the example of a gas powered vacuum? When gas and fossil fuels are already on their way out, your example is poorly executed. Yes I understand the phrase "if it isn't broken, then don't fix it." but that's not how the world works, bubb.

I look at it similar to strong magnets being used as replacements for clip-in bike pedals. If the tech is already being used there in a similar way of attaching your foot to your bike pedal then down the road why can't there be similar progress in ski binding technology.

I am no way smart in the field of science and engineering but when innovation in tech can possibly reduce weight, minimize injury, minimize repairs, possibly minimize cost of production, then why not TRY.
Click to expand...

Not everything can be made better. At some point you maximize the utility of a design and any changes to it are for the worse.

Look at the engine from a 1980s mercedes 190d. Those engines would literally last for millions of miles without breaking down or falling apart. Todays engines would be claimed by mb to be far superior to the 80s diesel engines but the new engines get 200-300k miles and then eat shit. While the old diesels lasted forever. So which one is better?

and it may turn out that magnetic ski bindings are physically limited from being able to perform as well as spring bindings, even theoretically. Thats why i mentioned a gas powered vacuum cleaner.

We will have fossil fuel for thousands of years (i know that isnt forever but its long enough to warrant products that use it to be lucrative) so if a gas powered vacuum cleaner was comprehensively better than an electric vacuum then ppl would adopt it. But we know that a gas engine is simply not a good fit for a vacuum cleaner. it sounds like it could work but it just wouldnt.

so for you to assume the analogy of a gas powered vacuum cannot apply to the idea of magnetic bindings is ridiculous.

there may be unforeseen factors that make magnets not a good candidate for ski bindings, just as unforeseen factors might make a gas engine not a good candidate for vacuum cleaners.

im not saying its impossible to make a working magnetic ski binding. Im just saying it isnt guaranteed to be an improvement over spring bindings. They might end up being superior, but theres no guarantee they will be
 
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