Look Pivot 18 vs Tyrolia Attack 16
- Thread starter ahshit
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Zypher
Active member
What are you using them for? Park, Big mtn? what setup they going on?
Off the bat, id say Attack 16s for me but that personal preference. Also, you're not locked to a single mounted bsl so your buddies with slightly different sized boots could use them if need be. Also, the weight and stack height of the 16s is much less than the metal on the pivot 18s so that another +2 for me.
Off the bat, id say Attack 16s for me but that personal preference. Also, you're not locked to a single mounted bsl so your buddies with slightly different sized boots could use them if need be. Also, the weight and stack height of the 16s is much less than the metal on the pivot 18s so that another +2 for me.
-eREKTion-
Active member
Pivots are a meme. They look swaggier but they're twice the price of other bindings and the leave a lot to be desired in powder. STH16 4 lyfe.
SofaKingSick
Active member
13836058:Zypher said:
they have a significantly lower stack height than pivots??
SofaKingSick
Active member
13836185:Zypher said:
i vaguely recall the pivots being more like 18 or 19?
idk and it doesnt matter. i wasn't doubting what you said as much as expressing my surprise that the attacks are similarly low. i love both bindings and i love low stack heights
Mitch_7495
Member
Yeah this all depends on the use of the ski. For park and spins on and off rails is say pivot but for jumps it's a toss up for either case
highpeak
Member
I've been on both before and like the Pivot 18 better. If you set the dins high enough you will not come out in powder. I have done a full accidental front flip in powder and was shocked when I went to search for my skis only to find that they were still on. Also, the durability in unmatched.
sanctuaryfree
New member
Pivot 18s get my vote - have never had any trouble getting them back on in pow and I have "thoroughly tested" them by ejecting from my skis all over the mountain.
.lencon
Active member
13836057:sickski said:
LOL a binding more playful?? did you see some guy who does butters have pivots on his skis.
Honestly they're both good, id rather have attacks tho. Attacks are nice cause theyre generally cheaper, a solid binding, and super light. Never had any issues with the attacks I've owned.
13838723:.lencon said:
the entire thread has been saying how pivots are so durable but Ive seen way more broken pivots than I have attacks in the past couple years. Pivots are good but tbh they are less durable and a big reason for that is the brake system. I fully back the attack 18s to be more durable. Cant comment on the 16s
sanctuaryfree
New member
13838737:Park. said:
This is a good point actually, even if you go for all metal Pivot 18s, the brakes are still a weak-point in the design!
cobra_commander
Active member
Enjoy your plastic durability in four seasons when your binding has play. I'll take the P18s any day of the week, I have pairs pushing 15 years of hard use and they still function just fine. Plastic bindings don't do that.
RagDoll
Member
wanted to bump the thread as I've recently come into a couple attack clamps and have been a p18 guy for 10+yrs. Anyone a multi-season-owner of the tyrolias? had my first day on them today and stack height felt comparably low to fks/looks, seemed super solid although i didnt jump off anything. for the price seems like a legit binding. my main issues are long-term. trust the p18s more than anything because ive beaten them to hell and the all-metal has taken a beating and the binding still works flawlessly. Also wondering how they compare to the STHs, i stopped using them because of the dreaded "toe adjust/forward pressure creep" a long time ago. had a couple prereleases at high speed with them that were not fun so i never went back. A little nervous to go back to bindings that have vertical adjust on the toes and track-mounted heels. curious to hear about more experiences with them especially with big-mountian. not worried about pow in the heels or anything on fks/p18 literally never been an issue for me.
profa_212
Active member
13877742:RagDoll said:
I stepped away from sth for the exact same reason. Been on pivot 15s/18s ever since. Still my favorite binding after trying out a bunch of kinds. I've never had huge issues with pow in the heels either....never understood that. 3 seconds and one wipe of the heel and it's all gone.
In the end its all preference. I like the full metal and the comfort that gives me....and im curious how the attacjs last to 5+ seasons of use. Attacks are bomb for the price. But I just sale hop for fks and I have gotten all of them for less than 200 or free. There isnt much of a chance that I would pay the full 400 for a pair of 18s. That's pretty crazy.
To each their own.
scratchskier321
Active member
pivot and attack are the 2 best bindings. as stupid as it is, if you hike a ton of rails, its way faster/easier to get in and out of attacks than pivots. so then buy attacks.
jca
Active member
ive been riding p18/fks 185, 155 for the past 11 years with over 300 days on each pivot binding I own and still ride. Ive never had an issue other than breaking brakes. If they're too hard to put on in pow then youre doing something wrong.
Never ridden the Attack series bindings but the Peak 18 did really well for me.
Never ridden the Attack series bindings but the Peak 18 did really well for me.
Greg_K
Member
Both the Attack series and Pivot series of bindings are fantastic bindings but each will have advantages and disadvantages. See a lot of misinformation on here so thought I'd comment.
Both these bindings have similar stack heights and ramp delta(difference between toe and heel height) with Attacks at 17mm toe and Look at 18.5mm. Salomon STH2 WTR13 is also at 18.5mm toe height but Warden are in the 24-26mm range. Marker Griffon and Jester at 22mm toe height. So little difference between Look/Tyrolia but higher in certain Salomon models and Marker models.
Weight of Pivot vs Attack bindings are similar in the 16 and 18 din models but the big advantage is between the Pivot 12 and the Attack 13. The Attack 13 is about 200 grams(almost 1/2 lb) or so lighter than the Pivot 12 and about the same amount lighter than the SPX12 or Salomon competitors of the same DIN. Markers have always been light so similar weight to the Tyrolia but usually more expensive, higher toe height, harder to get in/out of and not as substantial feeling as the Tyrolia.
Biggest advantage by far is the heel of the Pivot binding. It not only does it allow for more elastic travel before any other heel before releasing, the mount area on the heel is the shortest of any binding out there. The shorter mounting area on the heel allows the ski to naturally flex more behind it as more of the ski is not under a rigid binding. This is the major difference in feel of the pivot vs any other binding and why the ski feels softer (more playful was mentioned in this thread) as the ski can flex more behind the heel.
The Pivot heel is also a liability as it has very little adjustment range for different sized boots as it doesn't have a track system like every other binding. Instead of 32mm adjustment range in the Tyrolia (plus/minus a boot size from original mount) you get less than one boot size of total adjustment(under 10mm), so remounts are a must when switching boot sizes. It is also harder to get in and out of(but not THAT hard as some suggest) than an Attack which is the easiest of any binding out there. The Pivot brake can also be a bit of a disadvantage as the brake is easily bent(but can be easily bent back) and a brake replacement is tricky and expensive with a set costing $100.
So in summary, best on snow performance all things considered is the Pivot binding but it will be more expensive and not have much adjustability for future boots sizes and depending on the model may be heavier than Attack models.
If you want future adjustability in a great light weight but substantial binding that's easy to get in and out of at a great price? Then Attack 13 is the binding of choice and the best binding buy out there right now. The larger DIN Attack 16 or 18 offer more metal at the cost of higher weight but still have fantastic performance and are more adjustable and user friendly than the larger DIN Pivots.
Pivots are the ultimate in performance and the Attacks are the closest performer out there but with more future versatility at a lower price.
Cheers
Both these bindings have similar stack heights and ramp delta(difference between toe and heel height) with Attacks at 17mm toe and Look at 18.5mm. Salomon STH2 WTR13 is also at 18.5mm toe height but Warden are in the 24-26mm range. Marker Griffon and Jester at 22mm toe height. So little difference between Look/Tyrolia but higher in certain Salomon models and Marker models.
Weight of Pivot vs Attack bindings are similar in the 16 and 18 din models but the big advantage is between the Pivot 12 and the Attack 13. The Attack 13 is about 200 grams(almost 1/2 lb) or so lighter than the Pivot 12 and about the same amount lighter than the SPX12 or Salomon competitors of the same DIN. Markers have always been light so similar weight to the Tyrolia but usually more expensive, higher toe height, harder to get in/out of and not as substantial feeling as the Tyrolia.
Biggest advantage by far is the heel of the Pivot binding. It not only does it allow for more elastic travel before any other heel before releasing, the mount area on the heel is the shortest of any binding out there. The shorter mounting area on the heel allows the ski to naturally flex more behind it as more of the ski is not under a rigid binding. This is the major difference in feel of the pivot vs any other binding and why the ski feels softer (more playful was mentioned in this thread) as the ski can flex more behind the heel.
The Pivot heel is also a liability as it has very little adjustment range for different sized boots as it doesn't have a track system like every other binding. Instead of 32mm adjustment range in the Tyrolia (plus/minus a boot size from original mount) you get less than one boot size of total adjustment(under 10mm), so remounts are a must when switching boot sizes. It is also harder to get in and out of(but not THAT hard as some suggest) than an Attack which is the easiest of any binding out there. The Pivot brake can also be a bit of a disadvantage as the brake is easily bent(but can be easily bent back) and a brake replacement is tricky and expensive with a set costing $100.
So in summary, best on snow performance all things considered is the Pivot binding but it will be more expensive and not have much adjustability for future boots sizes and depending on the model may be heavier than Attack models.
If you want future adjustability in a great light weight but substantial binding that's easy to get in and out of at a great price? Then Attack 13 is the binding of choice and the best binding buy out there right now. The larger DIN Attack 16 or 18 offer more metal at the cost of higher weight but still have fantastic performance and are more adjustable and user friendly than the larger DIN Pivots.
Pivots are the ultimate in performance and the Attacks are the closest performer out there but with more future versatility at a lower price.
Cheers
chicken
Active member
I think the pivot 18 is still the best binding for retention and elastic travel. Even if you get a binding that claims to have more mm of travel, it still doesn't ski the same. As soon as you are off hardpack I think it is the best binding. Look at any world cup mogul podium and virtually every ski will be mounted with a pivot 18.
cobra_commander
Active member
13878459:KravtZ said:
I didn’t realize their superior elastic travel and minimal footprint allowing the ski to flex naturally ceased to function as advertised in powder.
sanctuaryfree
New member
13879089:Greg_K said:
Killed the summary right there
