Line with chick skis? Lets not make another bad decision.

V

vtrider

Active member
All right, I got no real beef with line, so don’t take this like I’m out to bash leventhal or any of the line team.

Couple of days ago, some new news on the homepage listed that line has some women specific skis that are due out in the market this upcoming season. Now, in my eyes, this is another business breaking decision. I mean, how many women are jibbing it up right now, that feel that they need a women specific board? Not to many. Seems to me that every chick that I know wants either a Troublemaker or a Public Enemy. They like the graphics, they like the flex, and they like how they ride. So why is line coming out with a chick board? It’s limiting who they can sell to, (because no male in the right mind is going to buy a women ski) and on top of that, most women are content with the skis that they have now.

Another thing is how do they plan on selling it? Smaller retail shops that carry line will realize that there is no real market there, and not order the ski in the first place. So sell it over the web right? Getboards.com will be all over it, but that just pisses off the common retailer. I have seen shop owners that hate sites like getboards, selling at what kids think is discount, because web sales are 'always' cheaper, when there really not. Fact of the matter is that most shops are willing to match online pricing, then not charge you shipping and mounting, which can add up to 70 bucks onto an online sale.

So how does line think that they can break even on a project like this? I don’t know figures, but I bet it takes quite a few sales just to get into the positive numbers for the project. I can tell you that I my local resort there are only a handful of sales to women jibbers, most of who are more concerned on sidecuts and what there male counter-parts are riding.

Now, assuming that these women specific boards are consistent with other manufactures across the board, with softer flexes and forward mounting points (women’s hip location is slightly different then men’s, so a common thing to do is mount the binding slightly farther ahead on the ski, to help ease into and out of the turn) line should be of calling these skis 'lighter rider specific' instead of 'women specific' which would open up this ski to many riders out there. Make some unisex graphics (which we know most chicks are into anyway) and boom, you got yourself a ski that’s going to sell.

I am not here to change Line's sales tactics, but seriously, lets think things out before we have another pivogy on our hands.

Sorry if I offended anyone, I just had to rant, and I know that in all seriousness Line should take this as good feedback and not as a threat.

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DYNASTAR.LANGE.LOOK.SMITH
 
Have u heard of the fourm young bloodz series? Look how many people ride the girl youngbloodz man

 
Oh, I agree totally, but lets take in consideration how may female snowboarders there are out there, and compare that to female jibbers. so if forum can sell 1000 of these boards a year, I bet line can sell 50.

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DYNASTAR.LANGE.LOOK.SMITH
 
I dont know how many guys ride the female youngblood, what sales percent goes to guys on a female snowboard? Im guessing not to many.

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DYNASTAR.LANGE.LOOK.SMITH
 
Well presented rant.. props man. But I feel it will sell cus basicly its the only real girl specifit park ski... even if its 5% of the market(just guess) they have it dominated. It might even start a new trend 'hey check that out, Suzy willb e jealouse' SO basicly I think they made a smart move.... if nothing else a fun test.

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Donater

-Airic
 
Line has always had (or at least intended to have) a reputation for staying ahead of the game and being innovative, although perhaps a somewhat risky move how is this any different? I feel like some of the explanations given in the article about Line's two new skis for women made a lot of sense, most ski companies have a token female rider but that's it, other than that they don't really seem to care all that much about the female side of the scene, or if they do they care more about their female rider looking good in a bikini than anything else. I for one applaud Line for making yet another attempt to go out on a limb and stay one step ahead of the rest of the industry. Oh yeah and before anyone brings it up I realize my name may appear quite ironic and biased given everything I've just said but if possible try and ignore that and think about what I've said.

'You think you're too cool for school, but I've got a newsflash for you Walter Kronkite...You aren't' - Zoolander
 
thats a good point, and a can say that I also would like to see this sport get as big, or bigger then snowboarding. But what I am trying to say is if this is a smart business decision, not whether or not Line is trying to stay ahead of the curve.

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DYNASTAR.LANGE.LOOK.SMITH
 
fair enough, and I guess only time will tell whether it was a wise decision or not. I just wanted to throw another perspective of the whole issue out there.

'You think you're too cool for school, but I've got a newsflash for you Walter Kronkite...You aren't' - Zoolander
 
Yeah, I applaud Line for going out on a limb and taking the risk, it could do really well or it could bomb, who knows. But Line knows what they're doing, I'm sure they've done quite a bit of research on this.

Todd! Are you not aware that I get farty and bloated with a foamy latte'?- Mr. Mugatu
 
Another Pivogy?? U watch bud, that shits gonna be a huge breakthough when they perfect it

Skiing isn't an escape from life, its simply a better form of it-Matt Levinthal-AXIS
 
theres gonna be a pretty good amount of sales of that ski....alot of women are into moguling and will get more into newschool with that ski....but i htink you had a good point with the lighter rider label and that they should make some with agraphic that men will also buy cause that could seell good witht he posers and fat girly kids...but they should def have an all womens ski

dont go to new york. all it has to offer is i love ny stickers
 
surprisingly well written vtrider, I enjoyed it. I agree with you on the business venture aspect, but someone said it above: Line has always been trying to lead the pack in innovation in order to keep their name and maintain business. The reactor binding was a huge blow to them, but I still give them props for creating a bindings and sticking with the idea. The prophets are another great example. How big of a market is there really for that wide of a waist? Not much is the answer. But, Line is a company that creates a good market for unnecessary things; they are a rider driven company and people like their image. It is like Redbull almost: the drink tastes like crap but somehow they have created a market for a completely worthless item by making it seem like it enhances your performance in great ways (when in fact, it is minimal). I personally hope the skis sell well and Line makes a profit because I am a big fan of the company even though I haven't enjoyed riding their past skis. Good job line, and thoughtful post, Matt

'can you read what that says?'

'donna simma?'

'yes, that's right. now how would that appear in a phone book?'

'simma, donna?'

'that's right now Simma down na!
 
Who's to say though that isn't one of their skis that they just added a female friendly graphic too? I doubt that they spent more than a week actually researching the ski, if that much at all. But instead just put on a graphic thats more appealing than skulls or chicks in bikinis to female riders.

If you look at their line up of skis for next year, there aren;t many skis that the average female would find appealing. Sure there might be some dykes out there really digging the chick with the boom box or some super hard wannabe chick digging the skulls, but overall, they would be missing out, just based on graphics, selling to girls. Thats why, in my opinion, they had no other choice but to come out with 'a female ski' that would appeal to 13-20 year old girls.

 
there may not be a big market for a female ski, but then again, female ski speaking, they're the first, and only in the industry to offer a female jibber ski, so in that sense, they have no competition for those

www.BottleCapProductions.com

info@bottlecapproductions.com

PROHIBITED to be released summer of 2004

we are about pure riding enjoyment!
 
Ive talked to Lev and Jordan about this, as well as Michelle when I was out in Keystone

Line has got to be given credit for giving these girls a shot, and specifically a ski they HELPED design. R&D took Michelle and Ashleys imput on the project from the ride to the width to the graphic.

Obviously the girls ski isnt going to sell like the PRO models are, thats a given. But you also have to expect their not gonna produce THOUSANDS and end up sitting on an 80% or so unsold stock. Im sure they will do an initial SMALL run of the ski, gauge its effectiveness in the market, and then decide if its worth ramping up production or not

They wont end up broke from this, they came back from the financial losses they took from the binding, and this is going to be lines BEST YEAR EVER. J-Lev deserves definate credit for trying to keep the sport fresh and moving in a progressive direction, and if that future involves a girl specific ski and a female pro team, then im all for it

Hibachi King drops 9/9/04...and it shouldnt suck! hah

 
or perhaps the womens skis are going to be like the prophets, only available to a select few?

i was going to go for a quad daffy but i was like, why huck? -mommy
 
i think part of it is the mid season release...that way they can see how many they sell in that short period. if they sell like two pairs then the skis will become collectibles. hopefully it won't be like that. we'll see

h3o films
 
but how many people buy new skis mid season? would they not have there set-ups already to go already?

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A view on the downfall of the US by 221:

'godzilla man. he's gonna show up and shit will hit the fan.'

ellermann -> i hope you realize you just threw yourselves a birthday party online. just think about that for a little while

Ryan V.G
 
im sure line thought about it before they actually decided to come out with a womens specific ski so i wouldn't worry about it. i dont think line is stupid enough to not consider how they are going to sell it and how they will market it

 
yeah, mid season releases suck, unless you break your skis a hell of alot.

___________________

- Ian

That's Mr. Bangor to you!

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

 
even if they do lose money on the ski this year, it helps to build up the market, and lines reputation in that market in the comming years, its like resturants, they lose money for the first 2 years, then make alot once they establish a reputation. It is an investment, the returns probaly wont come back this year or next, and im sure line has accounted for it.

176cm of freedom on my feet
 
I agree with vtrider. I almost feel obligated to guy the female specific ski to support female specific skiing, and make it so this ski is really distrubuted and stuff.... but i would rather just get chronics.

-Lauren

Lauren and Ella: together changing teenaged boys lives since 2001.

THE FIST OF FURY

Fistin' Mad Bitches!

Skiing's not a sport, it's a lifestyle.
 
Line is the first one to come out with girl specific twins, but I guarantee that in 05' - 06' you will see girl twins from several companies.

I ski backwards.
 
'As a company, we want to be the first to the market to support women’s skiing, because nobody is supporting this side of the sport,' he says. 'Instead of just having one token girl to say that we support it, we sponsor two girls. We have two girls’ skis. And,' he adds, 'we know we’re not going to stop there.'

i think that is cool for line to step up and acknowledge female skiers. I am fairly confident they will make a high quality ski, but Im definitely going to demo these before I purchase one. Usually women specific means bad quality.

Dont forget your snorkle ~ Bridger Bowl
 
I wasnt aware of this before i read your post, but i totally agree with you. I dont think Line will sell many women skis. Girl riders dont want to have a girly ski. I mean, I know I wouldnt. I want a ski that's made for everyone else. It seems to me that they are going to make for lack of better words, a 'girly' ski that is wimpy and all pink and stuff. I am extremely impressed by all the skis already on the market, and I wouldnt want a puny ski that is made specifically for sucky skiers? By this I get the impression they are going to make money off of a ski that isn't good quality just because it's made for girls that wont ride it as hard as guys wear out their skis. It's a stereotypical idea that girls need a girl ski. If i wanted to be girly and wimpy, I wouldnt be skiing in the first place. I dont know if i made ANY sence, but it just seems like they are making a big mistake.

~*Michelle

->'the CD goes right here. the speakers...oh well one of 'em's broken, but THIS speaker is good, and these wires, they are really good!'

'Fighting on the internet is like runnin in the special Olympics......even if u win yer still retarded' *mullet_skum
 
stupid fucking cunt chick skiers. if they want a female ski they can make it themselves. hell they certainly don't ski like they deserve their own model. I'm all for equality but that means equal effort. how many female enginers are producing skis? probably not to many. women should just stick to cooking and slutting themselves out.

'It was probably the most improved park in north america last year. That's mostly due to us getting up at fucking 8 am everyday and raking like monkeys, untill we were to baked to talk. Every now and then some texan would eat shit and it would be funny and we would call ski patrol on our radios. we would steal food from the base and cook it on our grill, then heckle people on the lift with our mega phone while we played frisbee across the run. and took naps behind the shack in the most exclusive hut on the mountain. o christ, best winter ever.'
 
Ummm... just because there aren't a lot of girl jibbers out there doesn't mean there aren't a lot of girl SKIERS in general. Just look at the backcountry females, the racing females, and the female groms that are all skiing, many of them switch to snowboarding because it's the 'cool' thing to do... now they'll actually have a choice of 'cool' sports, where they can decide to ride twin tipped skis which are light, fun, and have cool graphics, or they can ride snowboards with are light, fun, and have cool graphics. When K2 brought out that women's freeride ski, I can imagine they made a good deal of sales on those, and where I live, there are loads of girls riding on Bandits and Pocket Rockets and I've seen a girl or two riding twin tips (1260s, 720s, 1080s). I think it's an excellent idea to make girl specific twin tips.

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'Schmuck...Cruella has garbage can pussy.'

--> Alpentalik

gethyped.net
 
You don't make money buy getting in an industry later, you get in it and create.

The smart man does not know everything, rather the smart man admits when he knows nothing.
 
why do girls need there own skis? well if you haven't been able to tell girls like ash have stepped it up for the entire sport within the lst year starting a huge movement in the direction of female skiers. having there own ski will hopefully bring more girls into the sport. these skis are from my sources, just as good as the mens skis, the chronic mold with a different top sheet. asking why they should be make graphics focused towards females is about the same as asking why snowboard companies have been doing it for years. its a way to express themselves and have something of there own. i tottal support this movement and everyone needs to give this a chance and watch the progression, cause thats what its all about right?

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word
 
gurls jib too and some poeple who dont know much will just buy skis, they odnt care if they have two tips as old poeple say as long as its a good ski woman will buy it

we bet this retarded kid to smoke a blunt on a bus. he got a 30 day suspension and had to go to court... oops.-Skiierman

no, you get a rear wheel drive car, and do a donut, and punt them across the street with the tail of the car. that's how to do it with ghetto bling bling steeze.-Bangor

 
wat IS hte difference between men and woman skis and such

we bet this retarded kid to smoke a blunt on a bus. he got a 30 day suspension and had to go to court... oops.-Skiierman

no, you get a rear wheel drive car, and do a donut, and punt them across the street with the tail of the car. that's how to do it with ghetto bling bling steeze.-Bangor

 
^mostly just top sheet and where the binding is mounted.

'When I go skiing on Thursday, I'm gonna grab my skis! Grabbing didn't even EXIST the last time I skied!' - a snowboarder co-worker who is going skiing on Thursday.
 
yeah i'd go for girl-specific skis even though i'm not super picky about skis, just to support the industry

''Always read stuff that will make you look good if you die in the middle of it.''

P. J. O'Rourke
 
where the binding is mounted? most people get their shit mounted wherever they want, so therefore any ski could be a womens ski. that's a stupid fucking answer. Skiboards are women specific skis.

'It was probably the most improved park in north america last year. That's mostly due to us getting up at fucking 8 am everyday and raking like monkeys, untill we were to baked to talk. Every now and then some texan would eat shit and it would be funny and we would call ski patrol on our radios. we would steal food from the base and cook it on our grill, then heckle people on the lift with our mega phone while we played frisbee across the run. and took naps behind the shack in the most exclusive hut on the mountain. o christ, best winter ever.'
 
allright, allright, settle down now. Im not here to heat LINE as a company, I would say the same thing for any other company out there if they were coming out with a women specific twin board.

But I think that *i

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DYNASTAR.LANGE.LOOK.SMITH
 
Shit, i just wrote the longest post and it had a slash in it and deleated about 3 pages of text. shit.

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DYNASTAR.LANGE.LOOK.SMITH
 
^ exactly

line is the first company to do it allowing them to yet again set the bar quite high.

sure the woman jibber market might not be big compared to the male.

but right now line owns %100 of it which allows them the oppertunity to make quite a nice profit if the interest is there.

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and if you dont know then you dont know.

bitch.
 
As a girl skiier, i think its a sick idea. i mean girls are always kinda sidelined in freeskiing, its cool that lines coming out with somehting justf or us, like we are being recognized for being able to ski. that being said i ski on atomic tweaks and love them

 
Im tryin again.

So, Michelle puts it the best. Hardcore women riders don’t want a ski that’s designed for women. Why? Because it’s designed for women, which most females will think that if it’s designed for women, then its not strong enough for a man. I have spent years in hard good sales in ski shops and time after time women come in and think that the female version of the ski is just not good enough for them, when truly, it really is. There’s just something about it, when an educated (when I say educated, I mean an experienced female who knows to look beyond graphics to the other qualities of the ski) girl comes into a shop, she wants something that can hold up to a mans abuse, and can match a mans style of skiing. One of the first things that jibbers look for in a quality of a ski is how strong it is. Buy labeling a ski 'women’s specific' most women will think that its not going to hold up to there abuse.

Now, I can assume that Line is doing this because of the huge success of women’s skis in other markets, such as recreational or free ride skiing. For instance, the B1W and B2W are great skis and hugely popular, but its easy to get older (and I mean older buy post-teen women, sorry if I offended anyone) women to try out these skis. The one thing that’s going to hold many females back from trying out line’s new female skis is the fact that it has a twin. So many people come into the shop and skip right over the twin section, assuming that “those are half pipe skis� or something of the such. Trust me, I can sell B1W’s and K2 T9’s like there’s no tomorrow, but throw a twin on there and 95% of the market is going to be scared away. Twins are meant for the park, but we all know that they freeride great too, but the common new (no previous ski buying experience) buyer just does not know that.

Chicks are getting good nowadays. Fuck, I can name off numerous girls that are better then me, whether at just general skiing, or in the park. But does that mean that the TroubleMakers, SethPistols, and Fugatives are good enough for me, but too good for them? Hell no. These chicks can rip on these skis, then don’t need a tuned down version or a ski with flowery graphics.

Look most moderate to top athletes in the world in other markets then jibbers. Racers and Freerides for example. Women racers ride the EXACT same skis as there male counterparts, just minimum size requirements are different. I had the chance to meet Asia Migury this year (rossignol sponsored skiercross and freeride champion) and she rips the shit out of B3’s. When asked what she thought about the women’s version of the bandit series, she said that there to wimpy for her powerful style of skiing.

So Im all for these skis being a huge success. Fuck I would love to see female jibbers be in the numbers of female snowboards, but I just don’t think that it’s going to happen any time soon. Props to line if they can make this work.

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DYNASTAR.LANGE.LOOK.SMITH
 
Let's all wait and see the actual dimensions on these sticks. My guess is they will match up exactly with another ski in their line with different graphics being the difference. MAYBE a softer flex, but still, probably the same ski as something else they have.

 
i dont know man, ashley battersby was up at session 1 and she was fucking ripping the shadows, they look like a pretty dope ski and she said they were fucking awesome, if Line is that commited to female skiing then more props to them

HIGH NORTH SESSION 1!

When the officer says: 'Gee son you're eyes look red have you been drinking? respond: Gee officer your eyes looks glazed.

Have you been eating doughnuts?
 
i can't believe that you honestly have a problem with Line making a ski...

hopefully you can worry about something better than that

 
What's up everyone? I just wanted to drop in and maybe clarify a few things from our perspective. I have no problem with people forming their own opinions, and I freely encourage it. However, hopefully you will all appreciate where we're coming from.

When taking on this project, I asked myself one question... why are there so many young girl snowboarders and not skiers?

The answer was actually quite simple. There aren't that many more teenage girl snowboarders than skiers, it's just the girls who snowboard have cooler equipment than the girls who ski. While it's true, there aren't a lot of core jibber girls in skiing, there really aren't that many in snowboarding either. I think it's important to point out that just because a girl snowboards, doesn't mean she does cork 3s off the sixty foot table in the park, and a just because we're making freestyle specific girl's skis doesn't mean that a girl who buys them has to do the same. The difference is that an average girl who snowboards has a lot of great options for product while the average girl skier has either K2 T-9 skis (designed by and for older women, and which are also K2s best selling skis) or cheap package skis that are painted pretty and claim to be girl specific.

As I thought about this I asked myself what I could to do to change this inequality. Since we had two great girls already riding for us, I asked them what they thought. They suggested that they didn't need a toned down version of our current skis, but would rather appreciate a lighter ski with graphics that were more appealing to them. This made a lot of sense, and we proceeded with the project. The whole goal is not to make a wussy pink ski, but to utilize the same performance and construction characteristics found in our other skis and put it in a package that our pros would be stoked on. Consider the following points:

1.) Just because it's girl specifc, doesn't mean it sucks or is wimpy. On the contrary, look at the Burton Feelgood snowboard. I'm pretty sure Victoria Jealouse can rip as hard as nearly any male pro snowboarder, yet she rides and actually encourages women's specific product because men and women are different. It's as simple as that. Women, on average are lighter, and on average, have different tastes in art and color than men. In speaking with several women, (yes I did do more than a week's worth of homework on this project, and yes I did crunch the numbers), I found that women don't want or need a lesser performing ski, but would rather appreciate a lighter ski with graphics that appealed more to their tastes.

2.) Girls are girls and boys are boys and we all have different tastes, no matter what our sex. As some of you have guessed, we are using the same geometries found in some of our current models, but we have modified the construction to make them exactly what the girls wanted. I want to stress that we did not dictate to the girls what their skis would be, instead we made several test skis and let them choose what they thought was best. At the end of the day these are skis designed by women for women. Who knows, in creating these models maybe we'll learn something new that can be applied to all our skis, not just our women's models.

Line is making girl's skis becuase girls ski. It's as simple as that. You don't have to do a cork 9 to need a twin tip, and you certainly don't have to switch 270 to disaster a down kink to be cool. Line is all about skiing and having fun. We want to make skis to support every skier, not just the super crazy pros. Hopefully one dayIf making these skis simply gets one girl who was about to give up on skiing and buy a snowboard to reconsider that decision because our skis look fun and inviting to her, mission accomplished.

Peace,

Jordan Judd

Line Skis Product & Team Manager

 
well shit I think everyone wants a lighter ski, way to go genious.

'It was probably the most improved park in north america last year. That's mostly due to us getting up at fucking 8 am everyday and raking like monkeys, untill we were to baked to talk. Every now and then some texan would eat shit and it would be funny and we would call ski patrol on our radios. we would steal food from the base and cook it on our grill, then heckle people on the lift with our mega phone while we played frisbee across the run. and took naps behind the shack in the most exclusive hut on the mountain. o christ, best winter ever.'
 
yes but girls are on average lighter which means mens skis are generally a lot heavier, wait to think genious

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word
 
'While it's true, there aren't a lot of core jibber girls in skiing, there really aren't that many in snowboarding either. I think it's important to point out that just because a girl snowboards, doesn't mean she does cork 3s off the sixty foot table in the park, and a just because we're making freestyle specific girl's skis doesn't mean that a girl who buys them has to do the same.'

I think that's the core of it. Of course there aren't enough girls in the park to justify a separate line of skis. But there probably are a lot more girl skiers who will buy a pair of Lines regardless (just like barely any snowboarders can do more than straight hit a jump or a box, but they still buy Danny Kass' board or Shawn White's).

And if just a few of those girls then decide to try some jibbing, there'll be 500% more of them out there then there are now!

 
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