TZP
Member
so has anyone tried those ? www.libtechnas.com
Libtech skis, has anyone tried them ?
- Thread starter TZP
- Start date
I have heard great reviews on the mag trac in the snowboard, I don't know if the same opinion would be taken on skis. As they are two different pieces of equipment.
I bought a pair of NAS's off SAC a few weeks ago. They look like legit skis, and the magnetraction looks cool... I cant really say more until I ski them I guess. The tips are noticeably wider than the tails, that will make going switch interesting I'm sure.
ski_powpow
Active member
i saw a pair in a board shop and they had differently shaped edges/sidewall
I took them out on a 2 demo runs last season. First, in January. It was super cold, super icy, and super sketch in Tahoe, but they held edge pretty well and being the fact that you dont have to detune them or anything, I could get right up on a box or a rail, never snag, and just go with it.
Then I tried them about a month later in February, when there was some actual powder for once (although not too much lol)
It was fairly alright in the pow and crud... they felt extremely like the AR6's.
Still, it was totally a legit ski to ride, I reccomend it... and if I worked at freeskier, I'd give it a stoke rating of 8 (mainly because it wasnt absolutely lights out in powder haha)
Then I tried them about a month later in February, when there was some actual powder for once (although not too much lol)
It was fairly alright in the pow and crud... they felt extremely like the AR6's.
Still, it was totally a legit ski to ride, I reccomend it... and if I worked at freeskier, I'd give it a stoke rating of 8 (mainly because it wasnt absolutely lights out in powder haha)
Are you trying to say something?
rockymountainmilitia
Active member
you'd think that magne traction technology would be completely redundant for riding pow. I dont understand why they have it on the big ass pow ski.
dbchili
Active member
from what i understand the magnatraction works very well on the snowboards because of the travel distance from edge to edge but not as well on skis because of how much narrower they are, but thats not to say they dont work. I'd like to try a pair but we dont get shit for demos in ontario
its just different. Like... more playful of an edge... it doesnt feel like your actually on an edge.. feels like your floating, and turning... at least on ice. really bizzare haha.
they hold a good edge, thats for sure... and are really loud...
either that or it was just REALLY icy haha.
either that or it was just REALLY icy haha.
When you ride a normal ski on the ice, you engage one whole edge. So when one part of your edge releases from the hold, your whole edge is no longer in contact with your carve.
When you have the mag trac, you now have multiple points of the edge engaged in the ice/snow. So now if one part of your edge releases, you still have the other points holding you down. Thus, allowing you to hold your edge in the snow longer.
When you have the mag trac, you now have multiple points of the edge engaged in the ice/snow. So now if one part of your edge releases, you still have the other points holding you down. Thus, allowing you to hold your edge in the snow longer.
dave44
Active member
I see now.
I always assumed that it was the waves, which made the contact points smaller, causing more pressure, making the edge carve by cutting into the snow because of the lesser contact and increased pressure. But I guess I was wrong.
And to the guy who says it only works on snowboards, it must work on skis though, otherwise they wouldn't bring it out.
I hate how they sell 'em in singles though.
I always assumed that it was the waves, which made the contact points smaller, causing more pressure, making the edge carve by cutting into the snow because of the lesser contact and increased pressure. But I guess I was wrong.
And to the guy who says it only works on snowboards, it must work on skis though, otherwise they wouldn't bring it out.
I hate how they sell 'em in singles though.
You may not be wrong. I never thought about it that way.
tride
Active member
OK I'm ready for the abuse that this will get me....but,
The wavy edge concept is a GIMMICK. If it truly offered better edge hold than a straight edge, then ski racers would be experimenting with a similar technology.
Think about it, the amount of money that ski companies spend on r&d for race skis is so much more than what freeride r&d budgets are.
Since edge hold is the most important factor in ski racing, if Magnatraction actually worked, you would see race skis using it or something similar.
Maybe it holds good but slows you down, who wants that? Whats the point in being able to hold an edge if ultimately you are going around corners slower than someone riding a straight edge ski?
Apparently it still holds well when detuned for rails, so maybe that is a vote in it's favor, however I can't see a wavy edge feeling as smooth on rails as a straight edge does. For sure it would increase the chance of catching, even when detuned.
When I see a World Cup GS racer ripping down a course using some wavy edges, then I'll believe that it offers "superior edge hold".
The wavy edge concept is a GIMMICK. If it truly offered better edge hold than a straight edge, then ski racers would be experimenting with a similar technology.
Think about it, the amount of money that ski companies spend on r&d for race skis is so much more than what freeride r&d budgets are.
Since edge hold is the most important factor in ski racing, if Magnatraction actually worked, you would see race skis using it or something similar.
Maybe it holds good but slows you down, who wants that? Whats the point in being able to hold an edge if ultimately you are going around corners slower than someone riding a straight edge ski?
Apparently it still holds well when detuned for rails, so maybe that is a vote in it's favor, however I can't see a wavy edge feeling as smooth on rails as a straight edge does. For sure it would increase the chance of catching, even when detuned.
When I see a World Cup GS racer ripping down a course using some wavy edges, then I'll believe that it offers "superior edge hold".
BenJAMIN4aWhil3
Member
You made some good points there especially with the slower part.. I agree that the waves probably generate more friciton because each wave has a leading edge sort of on the snow so slower makes sense.
Baring that however... there is one simple reason why you have never seen this technology in racing. RACERS ARE CLOSE-MINDED BACKWARDS SONS OF BITCHES! they are so scared of new technology or anything thats even the slightest bit different than what the reps and ski techs from the racing programs tell them that it will never ever happen. they would never give something like that a chance. They would brush it off before even understanding how or why it work.
Disclaimer: I realize that what I just said about racers is a generalization and does not apply to all racers.. however it does apply to every racer I have ever met... And I know many of them.
Baring that however... there is one simple reason why you have never seen this technology in racing. RACERS ARE CLOSE-MINDED BACKWARDS SONS OF BITCHES! they are so scared of new technology or anything thats even the slightest bit different than what the reps and ski techs from the racing programs tell them that it will never ever happen. they would never give something like that a chance. They would brush it off before even understanding how or why it work.
Disclaimer: I realize that what I just said about racers is a generalization and does not apply to all racers.. however it does apply to every racer I have ever met... And I know many of them.
It doesnt hold MORE edge, it just holds different edge. Instead of sliding and THEN catching edge, like the usual parabolic ski, it initiates the turn immediately, rather then having a drag. The drag is necessary for ski racing because of how they must go around gates so sharply. If the Magnetraction DOESNT work, then the ski still has exceptional edge grip from my experience... As for rails, out of the few I did, they felt perfectly fine and I never caught onto anything. I dont know whether that was luck, or not, but, it was alright.
As for it going slower than a straight edge ski? Are you talking about straightskis of old or the twintips we have today... because if you havent noticed, any ski you see today does NOT have a straight edge.. it is in fact a big elliptical curve. So your saying the edge will slow it down is based on there just being a bunch of smaller curves? Remember dude.. the edge of a ski is only effective if the ski is ON edge.. if you're just straightlining it, the bases pretty much take over..
I did occur a couple of problems with it though. (Note: I was on the NAS park series with a 85 underfoot) First off, its kinda inconsistant in its flex. Its stiffer in the tail and quite a bit more flexy in the tip. Then, sometimes, especially when I tried it on that icy day, it tended to catch and drag tail pretty bad.. which I reckon could really mess you up if you cant recover from a deviation like that. So, there are definitely some flaws, but with a little R&D taht could be helped.
Either way, you MUST remember... this technology has only been around for like 3 years, and predominately on snowboards. Yes, there are the skis... but only a few people such as myself have experienced them. You look back to the late 90's early 2000's when racers were transitioning from straight skis to parabolic... it was chaos dude. That was like 5 years after the first parabolics by Elan were marketed.. half the skiers didnt believe in the technology, half the skiers were on it. Racing is EXTREMELY traditional, and to deviate from the norm in a sport like that is like amending the U.S. constitution...
Who knows, with a little R&D work and some big bucks, it could be the way of the future.
You'll just have to try them man.
As for it going slower than a straight edge ski? Are you talking about straightskis of old or the twintips we have today... because if you havent noticed, any ski you see today does NOT have a straight edge.. it is in fact a big elliptical curve. So your saying the edge will slow it down is based on there just being a bunch of smaller curves? Remember dude.. the edge of a ski is only effective if the ski is ON edge.. if you're just straightlining it, the bases pretty much take over..
I did occur a couple of problems with it though. (Note: I was on the NAS park series with a 85 underfoot) First off, its kinda inconsistant in its flex. Its stiffer in the tail and quite a bit more flexy in the tip. Then, sometimes, especially when I tried it on that icy day, it tended to catch and drag tail pretty bad.. which I reckon could really mess you up if you cant recover from a deviation like that. So, there are definitely some flaws, but with a little R&D taht could be helped.
Either way, you MUST remember... this technology has only been around for like 3 years, and predominately on snowboards. Yes, there are the skis... but only a few people such as myself have experienced them. You look back to the late 90's early 2000's when racers were transitioning from straight skis to parabolic... it was chaos dude. That was like 5 years after the first parabolics by Elan were marketed.. half the skiers didnt believe in the technology, half the skiers were on it. Racing is EXTREMELY traditional, and to deviate from the norm in a sport like that is like amending the U.S. constitution...
Who knows, with a little R&D work and some big bucks, it could be the way of the future.
You'll just have to try them man.
twintipteles
Active member
Dude, speed isn't everything outside of the race course. Maybe you've noticed that alot of people are wearing xxxl clothes these days? I'll give you a hint, It's not for the aerodynamics.
If people are willing to sacrifice huge amounts of speed for clothing style alone, I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to trade a little bit of speed for superior edge hold carving off the lip of a jump. In fact, most park skiers spend very little time on their edges when speed is important, as most people just straightline into jumps, using turns to check speed, not generate it. Further, in sketchy conditions outside of the park, alot of people venture into terrain where finishing out a line cleanly and safely is far more important than speed. No ones timing you out there on the mountain, and if you are going for real speed again it's usually in the form of a straightline.
I don't ski on a race-course. It stands to reason that I might benefit from technology that, gasp, isn't part of a race-ski.
If people are willing to sacrifice huge amounts of speed for clothing style alone, I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to trade a little bit of speed for superior edge hold carving off the lip of a jump. In fact, most park skiers spend very little time on their edges when speed is important, as most people just straightline into jumps, using turns to check speed, not generate it. Further, in sketchy conditions outside of the park, alot of people venture into terrain where finishing out a line cleanly and safely is far more important than speed. No ones timing you out there on the mountain, and if you are going for real speed again it's usually in the form of a straightline.
I don't ski on a race-course. It stands to reason that I might benefit from technology that, gasp, isn't part of a race-ski.
tride
Active member
Holy shit, some intelligent debate on NS, who woulda thunk it?
You guys all make good points.
However I'm still not sold. They may be great skis, but I just don't buy the fact that they offer "superior edge hold" compared to designs that are proven in World Cup racing.
And edge hold combined with speed retention is very important for some of us, even though we don't race. Any pro pipe skier can tell you that. Just because we don't wear spandex in the pipe doesn't mean we should handicap ourselves with a ski that goes slower when on edge.
I don't want to buy a ski designed like a WC slalom ski, however it's definitely worth keeping an eye on race ski design for certain aspects of ski performance (particularly edge hold), as they have a lot more budget behind r&d over on that side of the industry.
You guys all make good points.
However I'm still not sold. They may be great skis, but I just don't buy the fact that they offer "superior edge hold" compared to designs that are proven in World Cup racing.
And edge hold combined with speed retention is very important for some of us, even though we don't race. Any pro pipe skier can tell you that. Just because we don't wear spandex in the pipe doesn't mean we should handicap ourselves with a ski that goes slower when on edge.
I don't want to buy a ski designed like a WC slalom ski, however it's definitely worth keeping an eye on race ski design for certain aspects of ski performance (particularly edge hold), as they have a lot more budget behind r&d over on that side of the industry.
twintipteles
Active member
Good point on the pipe skiing, certainly a disadvantage there.
You must also remember that race skis are stiff to the max. They are a completely different ski in soo many ways. The bases could be similar, but thats about all.. Twintips are what most people on this site. They go against sooo many features of speed. Mounting in the middle? big mistake if you're looking for max speed. 80+ underfoot? That just creates more ski to have to drag on the snow... not good for racing...
I personally would not look at race technology as a factor in what skis I personally buy, because race technology is so different. The skis might as well be made of titanium with how stiff they are. hell try buttering... you'll come right out of your bindings!
I look at innovative companies making freeride skis.. because thats what I do.. and what most people on this site do. Race skis never really come out with better technology except maybe a more pourous base, stiffer core, or some super tough binding.
with that said, what kind of skiing do you even do? do you ONLY race or something? yikes... if you do I reccomend you take some freeride skis and hit up the park one of these days man.. seriously. I'm still going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have though.. in which case, you may just want to change a bit of your philosophy there.
I personally would not look at race technology as a factor in what skis I personally buy, because race technology is so different. The skis might as well be made of titanium with how stiff they are. hell try buttering... you'll come right out of your bindings!
I look at innovative companies making freeride skis.. because thats what I do.. and what most people on this site do. Race skis never really come out with better technology except maybe a more pourous base, stiffer core, or some super tough binding.
with that said, what kind of skiing do you even do? do you ONLY race or something? yikes... if you do I reccomend you take some freeride skis and hit up the park one of these days man.. seriously. I'm still going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have though.. in which case, you may just want to change a bit of your philosophy there.
tride
Active member
Well, actually....
Yeah GS race skis are stiff, however race slalom skis are EXTREMELY soft (although torsionally stiff, which is different). You can pretty much bend them in half.
And the comment about more ski to drag on the snow?? No, that's not really correct either, actually the more base contacting the snow, the faster the glide is. A snowboard will outglide a ski in a flat-base glide test.
Anyways, i believe you kind of missed the point. All I was getting at is that in the "edge hold" department, ski racing has years and millions devoted to technology aimed specifically at precisely that- edge hold. Which is why I seriously doubt that a wavy edge is superior in THAT department.
I'm sure that they are a way better freeride ski than a World Cup slalom ski will ever be, but they probably are not better at holding an edge, knowhatimean.
And no, I haven't raced in a long time, nor do I ride race skis. I ride twins. However, if I was designing a twin and was concerned about edge hold, I would certainly take race technology into consideration.....
Yeah GS race skis are stiff, however race slalom skis are EXTREMELY soft (although torsionally stiff, which is different). You can pretty much bend them in half.
And the comment about more ski to drag on the snow?? No, that's not really correct either, actually the more base contacting the snow, the faster the glide is. A snowboard will outglide a ski in a flat-base glide test.
Anyways, i believe you kind of missed the point. All I was getting at is that in the "edge hold" department, ski racing has years and millions devoted to technology aimed specifically at precisely that- edge hold. Which is why I seriously doubt that a wavy edge is superior in THAT department.
I'm sure that they are a way better freeride ski than a World Cup slalom ski will ever be, but they probably are not better at holding an edge, knowhatimean.
And no, I haven't raced in a long time, nor do I ride race skis. I ride twins. However, if I was designing a twin and was concerned about edge hold, I would certainly take race technology into consideration.....
jismontheslopes
Member
Ive been riding on them for 2 years now and have skied a couple different models and they ski really nice the edge hold is amazing. As for pipe ski it holds a lot of edge up the wall even after many many rail slides so unless your riding a new pair of edges everytime you hit the pipe to get maximum speed and height they hold up really well compared to most worked over edges. And the reason other companies havent fucked with magnetraction is they have a patent so they cant mess with it but lib is owned by rossingnol and looks parent company so you might see on rossis in the future and there coming out with libtech bindings that have same tech as look and rosi bindings. So be on the lookout NAs bitches
Hey skiers, new to this but been browsing for a while.
I got some shit to say and this is a cool subject.
In fact a serrated edge idea has been tested on race skis years ago but FIS is a tough nut to crack and the ski techs had a hard time getting the perfect edge. Didn't go far but worked well on hard pack.
In general, it's a good concept that has its benefits and it's a great story in the ski shop and lift lines.
I’ve skied the Libs quite a bit and had a great time, it’s skiing. They did feel a bit soft, but good to go and you probably don't need to tune them as much. The negative, I found the base low quality and slow.
Word is Rossi will build them in the Scratch factory along with Lib snowboards in the near future, could be tight.
I got some shit to say and this is a cool subject.
In fact a serrated edge idea has been tested on race skis years ago but FIS is a tough nut to crack and the ski techs had a hard time getting the perfect edge. Didn't go far but worked well on hard pack.
In general, it's a good concept that has its benefits and it's a great story in the ski shop and lift lines.
I’ve skied the Libs quite a bit and had a great time, it’s skiing. They did feel a bit soft, but good to go and you probably don't need to tune them as much. The negative, I found the base low quality and slow.
Word is Rossi will build them in the Scratch factory along with Lib snowboards in the near future, could be tight.
DaysToCome
Active member
no, theres a reason skiers are better on catwalks and its not just cause of the poles and freedom to skate its the fact that there is less surface area which means less drag because even though you are gliding there is still some friction which is melting the snow and making you glide. therefore greater surface area = slower speeds. If what you said was true then when we carve we should lose most of our speed
Mezmerize19
Active member
Am I the only on who cant find the skis on their site?
Microcosm
Active member
tride
Active member
Sorry, wrong...
It's a matter of base to edge ratio. A snowboard rides on more base compared to the amount of edge touching the snow. A ski has a higher edge to base ratio.
A perfectly tuned race base on a snowboard will glide faster than the same tuned ski in a pure flat base situation, ask any world cup tech....
Of course it is way more difficult to ride a snowboard with a perfect flat base, so unless you happen to be beside Seth Wescott on a cat track, you will go faster on skis because you will be able to flat base much easier than the average snowboarder.
And yes, when you carve you lose speed compared to flat basing... Ask any downhill racer the secret to gliding (its all about flat basing as much as possible).
if you want to test it yourself, find a really really good snowboarder and do a glide test beside them on a mellow slope where you don't need to be on edge, you'll be surprised....
It's a matter of base to edge ratio. A snowboard rides on more base compared to the amount of edge touching the snow. A ski has a higher edge to base ratio.
A perfectly tuned race base on a snowboard will glide faster than the same tuned ski in a pure flat base situation, ask any world cup tech....
Of course it is way more difficult to ride a snowboard with a perfect flat base, so unless you happen to be beside Seth Wescott on a cat track, you will go faster on skis because you will be able to flat base much easier than the average snowboarder.
And yes, when you carve you lose speed compared to flat basing... Ask any downhill racer the secret to gliding (its all about flat basing as much as possible).
if you want to test it yourself, find a really really good snowboarder and do a glide test beside them on a mellow slope where you don't need to be on edge, you'll be surprised....