Zimmerman
Active member
Has anyone else seen these in shops? I went to the sitehttp://www.kneebinding.com/KB-Landing.aspx and read up. Does anyone know any info on these? And my #1 question is, are they good for park skiing?
Knee Bindings
- Thread starter Zimmerman
- Start date
jsaya_SagStraps
Active member
I can't answer your question, but I think they're like 500$, and I see no reason to use these when the previously mentioned turntables are a park proven binding, relatively safe for your knees, and are cheaper.
onenerdykid
Active member
Hi - I'm John springer-Miller from KneeBinding.
Most knee injuries on skis occur when you are in the back seat (hips and knees bent) and you catch an inside edge. The snow pulls your ski straight sideways to the outside, but your leg cannot rotate that way. This is a simple explanation of what is known as "phantom foot" injury mechanism - which causes 75% of the knee injuries on skis, including 70,000 ACL injuries each year.
This injury mechanism is often described as a slow, rearward-twisting fall. But twisting doesn't create the injury, nor does falling backwards. All of this puts your body in a position of risk (hips and knees bent) but the injury is actually caused when your foot is pulled directly sideways to the outside. The only proven way to mitigate this injury is with a pure-lateral heel release, and only KneeBinding has such a release mechanism. Ordinary bindings only release sideways at the toe and forward at the heel. KneeBindings feature a THIRD release mechanism - with its own spring, adjustment screw, and DIN setting. This 3rd dimension of release opens directly sideways at the heel when the forces exist that could otherwise injure a knee.
Turntable bindings do not do anything to mitigate knee injuries. In fact, because of the side lugs and bars, these completely prevent the boot from moving sideways - no matter how much force is applied. Turntables pivot under the heel to aid the lateral toe release. KneeBindings are unique in that they can ALSO use the toe as a pivot point - to have a lateral heel release.
John Springer-MillerKneeBinding
Most knee injuries on skis occur when you are in the back seat (hips and knees bent) and you catch an inside edge. The snow pulls your ski straight sideways to the outside, but your leg cannot rotate that way. This is a simple explanation of what is known as "phantom foot" injury mechanism - which causes 75% of the knee injuries on skis, including 70,000 ACL injuries each year.
This injury mechanism is often described as a slow, rearward-twisting fall. But twisting doesn't create the injury, nor does falling backwards. All of this puts your body in a position of risk (hips and knees bent) but the injury is actually caused when your foot is pulled directly sideways to the outside. The only proven way to mitigate this injury is with a pure-lateral heel release, and only KneeBinding has such a release mechanism. Ordinary bindings only release sideways at the toe and forward at the heel. KneeBindings feature a THIRD release mechanism - with its own spring, adjustment screw, and DIN setting. This 3rd dimension of release opens directly sideways at the heel when the forces exist that could otherwise injure a knee.
Turntable bindings do not do anything to mitigate knee injuries. In fact, because of the side lugs and bars, these completely prevent the boot from moving sideways - no matter how much force is applied. Turntables pivot under the heel to aid the lateral toe release. KneeBindings are unique in that they can ALSO use the toe as a pivot point - to have a lateral heel release.
John Springer-MillerKneeBinding
Zimmerman
Active member
After going through the thread, i understand how it works completely and all that stuff. But I also understand you are a salesman. It would really help to get some pro-reviews in your business that we NS'ers can actually believe.
Now on to my question. Have these been park-tested? Could a freeskier go out and throw tricks off 60 foot jumps and hit rails with these? I'm currently recovering from ACL reco.
Now on to my question. Have these been park-tested? Could a freeskier go out and throw tricks off 60 foot jumps and hit rails with these? I'm currently recovering from ACL reco.
ripper_shredder
Member
this is what i do not get. Why cant turntables release your boot sideways? i am pretty sure they can....... I do not know/study the physics of the forces on a skiers knee but you seem to understand it pretty well. So based on your explanation, i am making this assumption.
Turntables can release sideways. In the case of a bail that in consequence, needs your boot to release sideways to prevent or lessen the injury on your knee, the turntalbe allows you to release because it can spin (hence the whole concept). It seems like the exact same movement your kneebinding does only it can do it both ways. In addition to the releasing capabilities that the turntable heel piece has, the "wings" of the tow piece can also spin on a horizontal axis compared to the heel piece spinning on a vertical axis. So in a scene, the tow is also a pivot point here. In fact, if you have your bindings din setting right, you can release your binding if you hit it hard-while on flat ground on the inside edge.
In my opinion, the kneebinding is simply a cheap "revolutionary" binding that does the exact same as the turntables only it is damn expensive.
Turntables can release sideways. In the case of a bail that in consequence, needs your boot to release sideways to prevent or lessen the injury on your knee, the turntalbe allows you to release because it can spin (hence the whole concept). It seems like the exact same movement your kneebinding does only it can do it both ways. In addition to the releasing capabilities that the turntable heel piece has, the "wings" of the tow piece can also spin on a horizontal axis compared to the heel piece spinning on a vertical axis. So in a scene, the tow is also a pivot point here. In fact, if you have your bindings din setting right, you can release your binding if you hit it hard-while on flat ground on the inside edge.
In my opinion, the kneebinding is simply a cheap "revolutionary" binding that does the exact same as the turntables only it is damn expensive.
ripper_shredder
Member
i did and it sill does not change my opinion
e.will
Active member
Back to this again huh? Well, another year, another series of testing.
Basically, this binding, in terms of park performance has come leaps and bounds in the past year. Once again, a couple of my buddies and I took out the knee bindings for some more park testing. This time, it was on slushy snow, the kind where ripping a ski off landing switch is no strange occurance, regardless of binding.
The binding still has an interesting feel, that takes some getting used to; that being said, we ran in to limited instances of skis pre-releasing. The newly resdesigned brake is more condusive to skiing park, because it allows the binding's elastic nature to exhibit a sense of give without the brakes touching the snow(and ripping the ski off).
bottom line, this binding is doing its job. It will save your knees. If you want to ride it at a din of 10 (or higher), thats fine. but maybe after an ACL tear you are dialing it back a bit and not pushing yourself to the limits. Say you are still hitting jumps, learning tricks, just not with the fervor you previously did due to injury. This binding will work for that.
while it may not be ready for the impacts associated with professional level skiing, for 90% of the park skiers on this site, this binding would be effective and satisfactory. The fact remains that we all crank our din; just like any other binding out there, a din of 8 probably won't cut it for park. But put this guy in the 10+ range, and i don't see why it wouldn't work for the average park skier.
and then, your biggest issue is cost.
Basically, this binding, in terms of park performance has come leaps and bounds in the past year. Once again, a couple of my buddies and I took out the knee bindings for some more park testing. This time, it was on slushy snow, the kind where ripping a ski off landing switch is no strange occurance, regardless of binding.
The binding still has an interesting feel, that takes some getting used to; that being said, we ran in to limited instances of skis pre-releasing. The newly resdesigned brake is more condusive to skiing park, because it allows the binding's elastic nature to exhibit a sense of give without the brakes touching the snow(and ripping the ski off).
bottom line, this binding is doing its job. It will save your knees. If you want to ride it at a din of 10 (or higher), thats fine. but maybe after an ACL tear you are dialing it back a bit and not pushing yourself to the limits. Say you are still hitting jumps, learning tricks, just not with the fervor you previously did due to injury. This binding will work for that.
while it may not be ready for the impacts associated with professional level skiing, for 90% of the park skiers on this site, this binding would be effective and satisfactory. The fact remains that we all crank our din; just like any other binding out there, a din of 8 probably won't cut it for park. But put this guy in the 10+ range, and i don't see why it wouldn't work for the average park skier.
and then, your biggest issue is cost.