Kinda scary if its true

crayola

Member
someone posted this in the thinker's cult. I thought it should be in NSG. Please read it all.

This is an important issue.

I think at this point there’s no question about the presence of global warming. I believe in the direct relation between CO2 and temperature in the atmosphere. If this is true, then we are causing global warming. When miners would work, they sometimes would bring a canary into the mine and if there were any toxic gases present underground, then the canary (being delicate and sensitive) would die before any humans, thus the miners would know to get out of the mine. In other words the canary was a detector and also the first to go. In the same way skiing is like one canary to global warming. The last time that New York State received no snow in a single winter was about 200 years ago around the year 1800. If conditions keep up until spring, then this will be the second year on record in New York's history without snowfall. Followed shortly by the rest of the northeast of the United States, and other vast areas. In my opinion at this point in time we cannot stop global warming. If an overnight miracle was to occur (every single person on the planet was to stop driving their gas-fueled cars, burning fossil fuels, etc.), we would still be able to do nothing because of the CO2, which has already been emitted. I believe that skiing in the northeast is the first significant canary.

If this is true, then Humans as a species will discontinue exponential growth and reach a carrying capacity much earlier than expected. A carrying capacity is when the growth of a species' population is limited by a part of its environment. Usually this is a natural resource. Seeing as humans are the first species in Earth's history that can reason and solve complex problems, we were able to correct several possible causes for a carrying capacity on our species.

I don't see a way to solve the problem of the rising temperature in the atmosphere seeing as it is too big for us to control and change to match our intentions (in this case our intention is to continue our lifestyles with unaffected population growth as a relevant issue). It is likely that many species will become extinct because of global warming for the reason that each cannot conform to the abrupt climate change. No individual knows how much the temperature will rise, but it is not insane for an individual to say there could be a time where even humans cannot conform to it.

With an unbearably hot environment, many problems develop, which challenge our survival. Most importantly, the food web that supports our consumption would break down; the lack of food alone would be an insurmountable carrying capacity. Thus, we would have a carrying capacity on our species. We would take a large hit to our population while to the rest of the animal kingdom this would be an extinction of mass proportion.

We are able to build bridges, trains, cars, ships, airplanes, buildings, atomic bombs, even spaceships and computers. This issue is different than others; the influence is entirely environmental (not economic) and most importantly it will not be in support of our luxuries, instead it will be a in threat of our survival. It is nowhere written that humans continue to live forever. We call ourselves an intelligent species but more so we are greedy. We only use our intelligence to attempt to quench our thirst for material objects. Unfortunately and inconveniently, we naturally waste our brilliance on relatively insignificant purposes while space and time passes us by. But we are not a perfect species.

The canary is already dead.
 
ok i saw global warming and CO2 and i didnt even bother reading the rest. if you believe global warming is due to carbon levels in the air explain why the global temperature DECLINED between approx 1930-1970? lots of emissions where used during this time...infact carbon levels were on an extreme rise here, but as theyre rising, how is the global temperature going down? not just over one year but 40?

also did you even consider solar output? the suns energy output isnt constant. what do you think would make a bigger difference: C02 in the air or the output of the suns energy? that should be a no brainer. global warming is a hoax and is natural. how did we have ice ages? how did they melt? climate changes dude.

picture this situation: were living in an ice age many hundreds of thousands of years ago and the ice is starting to melt. we have no emissions whatsoever because we dont have any form of technology. how do you explain the melting ice? its the same thing right now

now carbon does play a small roll though. about 2% of the natural climate temperature is affected by carbon. thats about 0.2 degrees farenheit warmer each year. is that significant? not really. in the next 30 years the sun could drop or rise the global temperature much more vibrantly than carbon. please take this into consideration before talking about global warming and not knowing the facts
 
Hasn't it already snowed in new york state? Interesting though. I am really really interested in global warming stuff
 
If you think about everything as a whole. Human existence is just a blip in time. We arent significant, this global warming thing is just a mere 50yr period. That is nothing in the vast spectrum of even human history. This does nothing to contribute to any argument but I was just thinking you know
 
well then i dont think your thinking enough. because hes saying that ecosystems are going to be interrupted by global warming. ever heard of adaptation? with an increase of 0.2 degrees farenheit per year due to global warming, i think ecosystems will adapt to that. the REAL killer of ecosystems which isnt mentioned is deforrestation and development. we destroy an area of land to build a city and such. THIS is why ecosystems are having problems.

and what he said about the ski hills having no snow...that is NOT because of global warming. the fuckin east coast has an ASTRONOMICAL ammount of snow. if it was GLOBAL warming, wouldnt the effect be GLOBAL and not only the west coast? put some more thought on this dude, and when you say you disagree with me, atleast state your grounds .
 
global warming is a natural event that has happend many times through out earths history. relating newyorks snowfall is inaccurate the last time it happened was 1800 when there was no cars and barly any CO2 output by humans. Its shitty weather patterns that are screwing you guys. just as they did in the 1800's.
 
very true. if we took a picture of every year since the first day the earth was made up till now and played it 30 frames a second (standard NTSC), wed only be in the last couple seconds. human existance (correct my history) was dated back earliest 6 million years ago (i think). human existance of course wasnt significant at this time. but still. the earth is...about 4.5 billion years old? i think im not sure but thats what i remember reading. anyways 6 million isnt too significant to 4.5 billion.
 
The last time that New York State received no snow in a single winter was about 200 years ago around the year 1800. If conditions keep up until spring, then this will be the second year on record in New York's history without snowfall

im not saying i dont believe in global warming but the earth could just be going through a cycle if their was no global warming in 1800 but their was still no snow could earth just be repeating this cycle now
 
you're right, but what could we do if we knew that the climate's going to change so drastically in the near future that it will be a threat to humanity? couldn't we do something to help ourselves? its just a thought, but my point is, ok climate changes, but it could ruin us
 
Ok, I'll disagree with you here, and here are my grounds:

"

This is the latest storm to bring rain, not snow, to the Northeast. There was no measurable snow in New

Jersey

in December, which was the warmest since records started being kept 111

years ago. In addition, 2006 was the second-warmest year ever recorded

in New Jersey. "

-Accuweather.com (http://wwwa.accuweather.com/news-top-headline.asp?partner=accuweather&traveler=0&date=2007-01-04)

And about global warming being 'global'. Global warming will create much more violent and unpredictable weather as more polar ice melts and more water is introduced into our atmosphere. While the East is getting no snow, over west we've been having a unbelievebly cold winter so far, with snow down in the foothills now for over a few weeks (which has happened maybe once or twice in the last 10 years). Overall, global temps will increase, but expect much more variable weather along with those.
 
my cousin lives in albany, NY and has said that they already had two snowfalls...

but yeah, just thinking about global warming makes me emo
 
i duno extinction is natural. maybe the extinction of humans is natural and were just trying to delay the inevitable? now thats a thinker.
 
Yea, there are natural climate changes. We just sped up the process by a couple thousands of years. If you don't think giant holes in the ozone and pollution has an effect on our climate, you're an idiot.
 
i just thought of something. everyone says all this human technology and pollutants isnt natural. like lets define natural for a second. something about nature? or something that happened without prediction. it might be natural for humans to have invented everything we did. maybe we were destined to be the dominant life form and all human impact was completely natural and this is just the natural way the world is rolling? think about it,.
 
sorry about not stating my grounds. the canary is the east coast and the mine is the world. I dont know enough on the subject to disagree with, just that the temperature increase is also exponential, not linear. adaptation takes many years for most species depending on what the adaptation is. He said that humans will be the only species to adapt to the climate change. Whether or not were causing it, it's still our problem to fix.
 
alright even if there is no global warming which im not saying is or isnt so the fact that this new climate change means its getting warmer im pissed cause we wont get to ski anymore.
 
im not big on math terms but the earts temperature is like a sine graph if you follow...waves up and down...fluctuates. but the reason ecosystems are suffering so much is from human habitation and what where doing to natural wildlife. there isnt much natural wildlife barely touched by humans anymore. THATS our problem to fix, emissions shuold be watched because its bad for peoples health.
 
The climate change isn't what will kill us. We can stand to live 20 degrees warmer. It will be all the storms and flooding that come with it, which we can't adapt to.
 
which is also natural. contrary to popular belief, hurricaine katrina wasnt caused by global warming. big storms will happen. nature isnt linear, its a scatterplot with a line of best fit being the average storm. on a scatterplot there are often outliers which are very unfrequent, hurricaine katrina was one of these outliers.
 
There will come a time when the diversity of the earth becomes terribly limited but I still believe that no matter what, humans cannot completely destroy themselves into extinction.

Worse case scenario is that we de-evolve back into a more primitive state where we live like animals scrounging the few species that were able to survive our destruction. But nature does have a small habit of adjusting to the most extreme conditions over time and I believe that the world of the future will be much better.

By future I mean thousands of years ahead.
 
Al Gore doesn't agree with you. Either you're wrong or he is. I've read articles about how there is essentially no argument among the scientific community about the existence of GW. I've never heard from any credited scientist that it does not exist. Not to be mean but what you're saying goes against the most current research and thousands of scientists. I'm open to different ideas. I really am. It would make sense that the sun gives off varying amounts of heat. I understand how that fits in and if its true then thats very significant. But 7 of the hottest years in world history were in the past decade. 2005 was the hottest ever. If that's true, then no matter how you look at it, it's our problem.
 
yes in a sense. but is the water temperature increased by pollution or by the suns natural global warming? as you see here this chart shows that the temperature was at its highest when hurricane katrina rolled in.

783px-GulfMexTemps_2005Hurricanes.gif


and just at this very time, as the temperature was NATURALLY decreasing, hurricane katrina came in. it started out as a very powerful storm, and the gulf of new mexico is notorious for making storms bigger being such a large warm body of water. the gulf of new mexico was warmed naturally from the sun. what do you think effects water more: the sun or the 0.2 degrees farenheit increase from greenhouse gasses? the suns output is not linear, therefore the temperature of the water wont be linear, nor is it an exact sine graph either, it fluctuates. thats why the gulf is warmer.
 
well the research i got from grolier gave me this. grolier definately legit and ive seen it many places elsewhere too. al gore is NOT a credited scientist either so dont use him. i did watch his film an inconvenient truth and after all the extensive research i did on global warming, i found far more information leading towards global warming caused from the sun. its a FACT that the suns output isnt constant, it fluctuates. and to me, the solar theory is far more believable than greenhouse gasses. think of it this way: if there are holes in the ozone, wouldnt that alter the greenhouse effect and allow heat to escape through these holes more easily? take that one into thought
 
no i feel that i have my own opinion after my own extensive research and personal thoughts. the solar theory and the greenhouse gas theory are like left winged politics and right winged politics. they dont get along, nor do they mix. some people favor the greenhouse gas theory, some favor the solar theory. i have read documents on both, and ive decided to side with the solar theory because its more believable to me.

by the way this thread isnt looking for stupid fuckin statements like that you lil bitch
 
An average volcanic eruption emits more co2 than human existance has emitted in its entire existance.

Global warming is natural. You cannot base your canary analogy. Your time frame is too long. This is just a bad winter and I really doubt the winter will go on without any snow for new york.

theres not that much we can do about climate change, and it is slow anyways. Odd are we will die soon from bad diseases rather than soemthing from climate change. With doctors prolonging everyones age with medicine, we dont have much natural selection, so our race is becoming weaker. There are biologically modified smallpox viruses that cannot be stopped9No cure, there is nothing that can stop them, absolutely nothing).
 
shit i completely forgot about volcanos. volcanoes also release aerosols which greatly effect the ammount of heat absorbed in the atmosphere to reflected back out.
 
even if it is a natural process that the temeratures will increase somewhat during certain periods of time, we aren't helpoing the process at all. will all the pollution and harm to the environment we are speeding up the process so much, for people who say global warming isnt happening and isnt from humans, theny need to open their fucking eyes and use their fucking brains a little bit. global warming is here and we need to start doing something about it
 
Goddammit, not again. I already posted all the evidence on another thread about this. Facts are - "The extent of the scientific consensus on global warming—that "most of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been attributable to human activities"[4]—has been investigated: In the journal Science in December 2004, Dr Naomi Oreskes published a study of the abstracts of 928 refereed scientific articles in the ISI citation database

identified with the keywords "global climate change". This study

concluded that 75% of the 928 articles either explicitly or implicitly

accepted the consensus view — the remainder of the articles covered

methods or paleoclimate and did not take any stance on recent climate

change."

-Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming)

Even if you dont accept global warming, humans are changing our environment for the worse. Deforestation and desertification are occurring at phenomenal rates, and we cant expect all of our activity to positively effect the world and other species. In short, live modestly and destroy your H2.
 
The thing that irks me is how little people care, and how little the car companies, and oil companies care.

They have the attitude of "oh it's not that big a deal let the next generation deal with it." While if this shit is as real as it seems to be then the next generation might be FUCKED.

Also the fact that the car companies RECALLED all electirc powered cars, thats right they TOOK THEM BACK from the people who had PAID for them.

If you don't believe me ask anyone who had one.

Also the purposful ugly design of the hybrids to discourage people form buying them. I can't remember where I read that, but one of the designers actually put online a conversation he had with one of the vp's or w/e saying something along the lines of "we don't want these cars to be all that intriguing looks wise, because we are not sure if they will be a success."

THAT SOME BULLSHIT right there. If everyone had a hybrid we'd be making a step in the right direction for sure.

Anyway yeh its an issue that really needs more attention and I wish Gore had won because maybe he would have done something about it. I don't get into politics, but I watched his video and plan to see him give the talk live, he might not be all that "cool" a guy in all your eyes, but at leasthe gives a fuck about the planet we live on.
 
this heating up of of the earth is natural. my uncle has gone to artic many times, and he met up with some oilers or something. they were drilling through the service on day, and they came upon fossils. fossils of palm trees, the great ancestor of thise that are found in WARM AND HUMID CLIMATES. so this obviously this could be a cycle the earth goes through. yet, this argument can be disproved with the fact of Pangea. when the continents were all one large mass. and the artic may have been in warm climates at this time.

another thing i thought of is, with this years absence of winter (as of now, theres still a good chance we may get hit) wouldnt this mess up the other seasons? or even ecosystem, causing alert?

another thing i thought of is, the universe was created by a small mass (smaller then anything u could imagine). its firey core caused it to expand and get bigger, to the point where it burst (which i assume is the big bang) and its parts became the very planents and other masses in the universe. now therre are a hhhuuggeee number of plants. but as time goes on, they are graduually being pulled together to form that one mass that was formed and exploded, and repeat...

(alot of this info i heard in class and i may have messed it up completly. so i apologize for any false shit, i just spit out what i heard)
 
Fuck, all the media's got the majority frazzled over Global Warming. If they had the hindsight to think back even a year ago, they might remember how terribly cold last winter was(East Coast anyways). Remember? Al Gore was giving speaches about global warming, but at that point everybody laughed as it was -20C. Now, conveniently for him(and whatever his agenda might be; that was not an unbiased film), were having an unseasonably warm winter.

I tend to agree with Leckett's view of things. I certainly agree we are fucking ourselves more through deforestation and desertification than anything else. Their was a thread made a while back(maybe Leckett made it?), that noted other "shocking" occurences that ended up just creating panic as it was overblown by the media. Global Cooling in 1970's comes to mind.

I think their have been enough arguments put forward to prove that Global Warming is not a valid theory. Rather it is more important to look at Climate Change as a whole.
 
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