Jon Olsson speak out about Team America
- Thread starter monki
- Start date
The bulk of your argument rest's on a volcano exploding on Iceland, that's hardly a good excuse for acting as disrespectful as Team America did. As for the other thing's, are you serious? So because airfare wasn't paid for, and the food wasn't michelin star quality they should break all the deals with Jon? And alcohol, come on! You really think alcohol should have been supplied from Jon? That would look real good in the media and with the sponsors "Big international freestyle event supports binge drinking!"Name one event that supplies airfare, food and alcohol, and builds 5-6 epic features for the riders to hit and get shots on, and maybe i'll listen to what you have to say. Until then, your argument is as weak as Team America's douchy move!
Twinjibber77
Active member
Wallisch had a Twitter post with a link to the youtube video and he knew the rules so someone explain that?
Sun_Ra
Member
It was clearly stated on the JOSS website before the event that the overall impression is worth twice as much as any other category (Style, urban, tech). Since only the top 3 gets points, every category is worth 3 points except overall which is 6. So it's easy to do the maths.
Team Canada won 6 points for overall and 3 other points for the rest.
Team America had a bunch of points but they had a 4 points or less for the overall. A grand total of 8 which is only 1 point short.
If they didn't like those rules, they shouldn't have participated in the first place since those rules were available on the website before they bought their flight tickets.
Jon worked his ass off on this event and with this low blow, he'll get less money from the sponsors to make this event next year. On the day that the edit will be officially published, it will have been viewed about 50 000 times which is quite a fucking lot for the sponsors. Also, the other videos that scored below them might also get less views because we're less "hungry" for videos and won't watch them as much since we've seen one of the best edits. So in the end, a lot less money for one of the most progressive event for our sport.
Those who were part of this decision on the team are a bunch of little whining bitches and their parents should have taught them to be respectful when someone works for/with them. Also they should remember that their sport is JUDGED and not complain if they lose by one point.
Team Canada won 6 points for overall and 3 other points for the rest.
Team America had a bunch of points but they had a 4 points or less for the overall. A grand total of 8 which is only 1 point short.
If they didn't like those rules, they shouldn't have participated in the first place since those rules were available on the website before they bought their flight tickets.
Jon worked his ass off on this event and with this low blow, he'll get less money from the sponsors to make this event next year. On the day that the edit will be officially published, it will have been viewed about 50 000 times which is quite a fucking lot for the sponsors. Also, the other videos that scored below them might also get less views because we're less "hungry" for videos and won't watch them as much since we've seen one of the best edits. So in the end, a lot less money for one of the most progressive event for our sport.
Those who were part of this decision on the team are a bunch of little whining bitches and their parents should have taught them to be respectful when someone works for/with them. Also they should remember that their sport is JUDGED and not complain if they lose by one point.
so did they, or did they not??
Judging from that facebook screenprint I think maybe the guys were to much focused on themselves to actually realize the actual implication of leaking the video ("why not a leak...") Still they could have acted much smarter. To me its a huge lack of respect. Hope that that these guys learn from it
Judging from that facebook screenprint I think maybe the guys were to much focused on themselves to actually realize the actual implication of leaking the video ("why not a leak...") Still they could have acted much smarter. To me its a huge lack of respect. Hope that that these guys learn from it
Ben.
Active member
to everyone saying they are focused on themselves i really dont think it is that.
something else to think about, wallisch, (and less so dumont) are still all about the sport at its core, not the corporate bs. so maybe they leaked the video because they were sick of all the sponsorship crap that jon has to go through to release them on his schedule. not saying that makes what they did right or wrong, but just another idea.
something else to think about, wallisch, (and less so dumont) are still all about the sport at its core, not the corporate bs. so maybe they leaked the video because they were sick of all the sponsorship crap that jon has to go through to release them on his schedule. not saying that makes what they did right or wrong, but just another idea.
i don't get the judging format, onhttp://www.josupersessions.com/?page_id=4 i found this:
[*]New judging format. We think that
the last year’s judging criteria’s promoted technical tricks a little
too much, so we have adjusted them to optimize the judging. It is not
an easy task, but we believe we have a great formula this year:
[/list]
- Style tricks (16 points max)
- Tech tricks (16 points max)
- Urban (16 points max)
- Filming (16 points max)
- Overall (32 points max)[/list]
[*]New judging format. We think that
the last year’s judging criteria’s promoted technical tricks a little
too much, so we have adjusted them to optimize the judging. It is not
an easy task, but we believe we have a great formula this year:
[/list]
- Style tricks (16 points max)
- Tech tricks (16 points max)
- Urban (16 points max)
- Filming (16 points max)
- Overall (32 points max)[/list]
PBraunstein
Active member
my comment was in no way, shape or form "an argument" supporting team america. Im not sure where you would have gotten that idea. it was simply stating that not everything is paid for. some people seem to think that jon payed for everyone to fly there, etc. a lot of people go out on a limb to get to and compete in this comp, and for that, i feel as though everyone deserves fair judging.
PBraunstein
Active member
exactly.
blindside
Active member
That's just not a valid argument for putting their video online, I'm sorry. Every other team worked just as hard (or harder) on their edits and yet they still managed to respect Jon's release dates.
As for having said goodbye, I don't know what your sources are (I'm sure they may be reliable since you're actually there) but Jon wrote this as recently as today: So to see Team America not speaking to me or saying good bye because of their score to then then leak their video makes me almost wonder why I work my ass of to make this happen.
In the end I've just lost respect for Simon and Tom (and anyone else involved with the leak)
As for having said goodbye, I don't know what your sources are (I'm sure they may be reliable since you're actually there) but Jon wrote this as recently as today: So to see Team America not speaking to me or saying good bye because of their score to then then leak their video makes me almost wonder why I work my ass of to make this happen.
In the end I've just lost respect for Simon and Tom (and anyone else involved with the leak)
T.Spliff
Active member
How about all you kids worried about the views for the sponsors just watch the fucking edit again once it gets posted. Are you thinking that when the videos get posted all the other videos are going to have 50,000 views and TEAMERICA will only have 15 views cause it was leaked? Wrong, it will get just as many views. probably more.
I am glad i got to see it early, and i probably watch it again when they all get posted. THANKS TEAMERICA!!!
I am glad i got to see it early, and i probably watch it again when they all get posted. THANKS TEAMERICA!!!
baaangthat
Active member
lolwut? simon and tom not all about the corperate bs? simon, who works with target (yeah, i guess theyre pretty core) and tom, who just sold out pretty much all of his small sponsses for a big payday with scott...
Ben.
Active member
i said less so simon. and im not saying that is the reason, but when i see twall saying things like "why not leak it, we wanted you guys to see it" etc, thats sort of the feeling i get.
but on a side note, its funny how fast NS's allegiances change. twall went from being god to one of the bottom 5 people in the freeskiing world in the span of one video being leaked.
but on a side note, its funny how fast NS's allegiances change. twall went from being god to one of the bottom 5 people in the freeskiing world in the span of one video being leaked.
)
Coalescent
Active member
Professionalism is key for any business and in this case Jon's contest. C'mon Team America, it's understood that you wanted them to see the video asap, however, it's disrespectful to all of the other teams as well. Play by the rules, or bridges will be burnt.
GuerillaInDaMist
Member
honestly how fucking hard would it be to follow one simple rule. oh im dumont and wallisch and my vagina hurts cause i didnt win. oh i got an idea lets post it up on youtube. dumbass move on their part just straight up stupid
Dustin.
Active member
They probably wouldn't give a fuck. They both make bank, they are two of the biggest draws to the event, and they didn't have that much provided for them anyway.
Who cares? Do you guys really cut wrist over this? This has no effect on my life other than the amazing 5 minutes I had while watching each edit.
Who cares? Do you guys really cut wrist over this? This has no effect on my life other than the amazing 5 minutes I had while watching each edit.
Team America should really consider the pecking order in the freeskiing world. Jon is at the top, by far the most successful person in freeskiing in terms of monetizing his success in the sport through sponsorships, while still skiing a ridiculous amount of time (and being successful on the snow). No one has come close.
Simon would be next, he is probably having some success with Empire and no doubt has good sponsorship support with Red Bull, Oakley, Salomon and Target. Stupid of him to butt heads with Jon over something so stupid, at this stage in his career he should be focusing more on building business relationships and he is unlikely to be competitive on snow and doesn't appear to be moving his skiing into other areas with more longevity (backcountry).
Tom is way further down the list. Yes, he is hugely popular on NS and has great comp results, but at age 22 if he wants to make a successful career out of skiing he needs to pull his head out of his ass and quickly. He should be looking 5 years down the road, when he will not be dominating the park scene.
The comments about being anti-establishment, your attitude will change when you have to move out of your mom's house and start supporting yourself kids.
Simon would be next, he is probably having some success with Empire and no doubt has good sponsorship support with Red Bull, Oakley, Salomon and Target. Stupid of him to butt heads with Jon over something so stupid, at this stage in his career he should be focusing more on building business relationships and he is unlikely to be competitive on snow and doesn't appear to be moving his skiing into other areas with more longevity (backcountry).
Tom is way further down the list. Yes, he is hugely popular on NS and has great comp results, but at age 22 if he wants to make a successful career out of skiing he needs to pull his head out of his ass and quickly. He should be looking 5 years down the road, when he will not be dominating the park scene.
The comments about being anti-establishment, your attitude will change when you have to move out of your mom's house and start supporting yourself kids.
Mr.Huck
Active member
This is pretty eye opening.
Wise up Wallisch! Fans will survive if they have to wait a few days. In no other sporting event is so much time and effort spent so that athletes can get the best possible footage. Think about it. This is unique to skiing. Why would you do something that would make it tougher to put on this event next season?
Enjoyed reading Schlopy's comments. I am even more of a fan now. He gets it.
Wise up Wallisch! Fans will survive if they have to wait a few days. In no other sporting event is so much time and effort spent so that athletes can get the best possible footage. Think about it. This is unique to skiing. Why would you do something that would make it tougher to put on this event next season?
Enjoyed reading Schlopy's comments. I am even more of a fan now. He gets it.
holyDINOSAURS
Active member
I was just thinking that
bfnradford
Member
young man, you have yourself a good attitude. hang on to that
Ben.
Active member
wallisch/dumont response
Just wanted to give you guys a real statement from our side of the story. It sucks that is has come down to this. To have someone of Jon’s status personally call us out for things that are untrue, and spread rumors based on assumptions just isn’t right. Simon called Jon the day our video was released online, and discussed the event and video release itself. To show respect, Simon happily took the edit off of his website. We never went out of our way to say anything bad about this event or Jon himself. We have our own opinions on many things regarding this event, but kept them to ourselves as a matter of personal respect. We feel bad that we now have to set the record straight and back up our own reputations thanks to Jon’s blog post.
Jon is speaking about us and the event as if we're deliberately trying to sabotage his event in some way; which we have not and would never do. He also describes us as "not speaking to him or saying goodbye because of our score" which is completely untrue. We didn't have a chance to talk to him at the awards, and apparently never went out of our way to search out where he was staying to find him and thank him. For him to say we simply blew him off and disrespected him is completed unfounded. It isn't all one sided either; just as athletes are nothing without great events like JOSS... an event is also nothing without the top quality athletes. We all owe a lot to Jon for putting on such a fun event, but he also owes a lot to all the athletes that worked their absolute hardest for two long weeks to create videos with his name on them.
We would never outright attempt to disrespect Jon or put down this event in anyway. It is and has been one of the most fun events we've ever participated in. We respect Jon and all the hard work he has put in to make this event happen! We've spent thousands of dollars traveling to and staying Sweden, and have nothing to show for it after 2 long weeks of work other than our edit. That is why we decided that we would share our video with the world as soon as possible. By no means are we trying to steal the lime light from the other teams, because if anything this has captivated people and brought the stoke level to an all time high for the other videos to be released. We are just as excited as everyone else to watch all of the videos again. And we will watch all of them from Jon's site.
The reason we were upset and confused is simply because the judging criteria was so far-fetched from anything we've seen in the past. We were never informed of such drastic changes in the judging. This year as we found out at the awards ceremony the judging was based almost entirely on film making/theme. A perfect video to describe what the judges were looking for would be the hilarious video Colby and Symms made last year (which by the way received last place last season.) We are not upset in the way the contest was judged, but just upset that we had no idea it was going to be judged as such. The way the judging was done this year, it would be smarter for Jon to invite 2 filmers next year and let them pick their corresponding athletes instead of inviting athletes themselves. The filming/theme was more than 50% of your score this season, making top notch skiing almost unnecessary. But once again we are not upset at how it was judged; just that we had no idea it was going to be judge this way.
One factor that should have been considered and scrutinized more before being an integral part of the judging, was the distribution of points. The judging criteria and points breakdown given on the website is completely different then the format used to score the videos for awards. The judges gave 1 point for the 3rd place team in each judging category then 2 points for 2nd and 3 for 1st, and no points for 4th or below regardless of how close they were to placing in the respective judging category. The way points were awarded, the judges were basically saying that if you weren’t going to be one of the top 3 teams in a category, don’t bother adding it to your edit because you won’t get any points. So teams that tried to make well rounded edits but fell a little short in areas were severely penalized for not placing in the top 3 of the teams. Had this been a Slopestyle comp, it would be like the judges saying that if you aren’t going to do one of the best 3 tricks on a feature, don’t bother hitting it because you won’t get any points awarded for it. This is a major flaw and the cause of the extreme inconsistency in judging that allows teams to simply neglect certain aspects of the contest.
By no means were we ever trying to sabotage the event that Jon has worked so hard to create. We have continued to travel around the world for this event every year in the hopes of helping it grow to become bigger and better. The idea behind this event is absolutely amazing, and we will forever give props to Jon for working so hard to create and put on an event of this nature. In terms of Jon speaking about considering more thoroughly “who he invites next year,” you don’t have to worry about us. As we have already told you and your co-workers at the event, we will not be returning next year.
Just wanted to set the record straight, and make sure Jon doesn’t give all of you the wrong impression on how everything happened!
Thanks again though Jon for all your hard work. Good luck with all of your future endeavors! And thanks again for everyone that has watched and will watch the edit we’ve made. Hope you enjoy! It is the edit we’ve made that we are most proud of, and most stoked to share with all of you!
Sincerely,
Tom and Simon
Cheers!
Just wanted to give you guys a real statement from our side of the story. It sucks that is has come down to this. To have someone of Jon’s status personally call us out for things that are untrue, and spread rumors based on assumptions just isn’t right. Simon called Jon the day our video was released online, and discussed the event and video release itself. To show respect, Simon happily took the edit off of his website. We never went out of our way to say anything bad about this event or Jon himself. We have our own opinions on many things regarding this event, but kept them to ourselves as a matter of personal respect. We feel bad that we now have to set the record straight and back up our own reputations thanks to Jon’s blog post.
Jon is speaking about us and the event as if we're deliberately trying to sabotage his event in some way; which we have not and would never do. He also describes us as "not speaking to him or saying goodbye because of our score" which is completely untrue. We didn't have a chance to talk to him at the awards, and apparently never went out of our way to search out where he was staying to find him and thank him. For him to say we simply blew him off and disrespected him is completed unfounded. It isn't all one sided either; just as athletes are nothing without great events like JOSS... an event is also nothing without the top quality athletes. We all owe a lot to Jon for putting on such a fun event, but he also owes a lot to all the athletes that worked their absolute hardest for two long weeks to create videos with his name on them.
We would never outright attempt to disrespect Jon or put down this event in anyway. It is and has been one of the most fun events we've ever participated in. We respect Jon and all the hard work he has put in to make this event happen! We've spent thousands of dollars traveling to and staying Sweden, and have nothing to show for it after 2 long weeks of work other than our edit. That is why we decided that we would share our video with the world as soon as possible. By no means are we trying to steal the lime light from the other teams, because if anything this has captivated people and brought the stoke level to an all time high for the other videos to be released. We are just as excited as everyone else to watch all of the videos again. And we will watch all of them from Jon's site.
The reason we were upset and confused is simply because the judging criteria was so far-fetched from anything we've seen in the past. We were never informed of such drastic changes in the judging. This year as we found out at the awards ceremony the judging was based almost entirely on film making/theme. A perfect video to describe what the judges were looking for would be the hilarious video Colby and Symms made last year (which by the way received last place last season.) We are not upset in the way the contest was judged, but just upset that we had no idea it was going to be judged as such. The way the judging was done this year, it would be smarter for Jon to invite 2 filmers next year and let them pick their corresponding athletes instead of inviting athletes themselves. The filming/theme was more than 50% of your score this season, making top notch skiing almost unnecessary. But once again we are not upset at how it was judged; just that we had no idea it was going to be judge this way.
One factor that should have been considered and scrutinized more before being an integral part of the judging, was the distribution of points. The judging criteria and points breakdown given on the website is completely different then the format used to score the videos for awards. The judges gave 1 point for the 3rd place team in each judging category then 2 points for 2nd and 3 for 1st, and no points for 4th or below regardless of how close they were to placing in the respective judging category. The way points were awarded, the judges were basically saying that if you weren’t going to be one of the top 3 teams in a category, don’t bother adding it to your edit because you won’t get any points. So teams that tried to make well rounded edits but fell a little short in areas were severely penalized for not placing in the top 3 of the teams. Had this been a Slopestyle comp, it would be like the judges saying that if you aren’t going to do one of the best 3 tricks on a feature, don’t bother hitting it because you won’t get any points awarded for it. This is a major flaw and the cause of the extreme inconsistency in judging that allows teams to simply neglect certain aspects of the contest.
By no means were we ever trying to sabotage the event that Jon has worked so hard to create. We have continued to travel around the world for this event every year in the hopes of helping it grow to become bigger and better. The idea behind this event is absolutely amazing, and we will forever give props to Jon for working so hard to create and put on an event of this nature. In terms of Jon speaking about considering more thoroughly “who he invites next year,” you don’t have to worry about us. As we have already told you and your co-workers at the event, we will not be returning next year.
Just wanted to set the record straight, and make sure Jon doesn’t give all of you the wrong impression on how everything happened!
Thanks again though Jon for all your hard work. Good luck with all of your future endeavors! And thanks again for everyone that has watched and will watch the edit we’ve made. Hope you enjoy! It is the edit we’ve made that we are most proud of, and most stoked to share with all of you!
Sincerely,
Tom and Simon
Cheers!
icon1234
Active member
I am going to hold judgement until I see all the videos. But if Team America video was considerably better then the rest, and they got real screwed with judging then idc what rules they broke. Because the way it sounds from people hyping the event, their video had significantly better skiing then the competition. Then their score makes them 2nd to last? I would be fucking pissed to.
Like if Team Canada video is like chug life, that would be so disappointing...
Like if Team Canada video is like chug life, that would be so disappointing...
skichicky3
Active member
agreed....
Tom wrote a long apology to everyone, especially Jon on facebook
Tom wrote a long apology to everyone, especially Jon on facebook
T-Nutcracker
Active member
Fuck you
Dumont and Fuck you Wallish. Do you really think that being good at a sports allows
you do to anything you want without consequences? Guess what. NO.Time to look
at your own cocky asses and face the reality. Leaking your edit = less money
from sponsors. Who the fuck do you think gave you the opportunity to come to
Europe, Sweden for almost 2 weeks, gave you free accommodation and food, build
the world’s best jumps for you for almost no cost at all. You might say Jon?
Yes it is partly true but Jon is only the organizer. He didn’t pay for all this
stuff from his own money. He has worked his ass off for a long time just to
find people who can actually afford you a free 12 day trip to Sweden for you.
In return for all this hard work you do this. FACE THE REALITY you ungrateful,
cocky faggots.
Whats the
purpose of leaking this edit? To show and brag to people how fucking cool you
are?You think you shoulda won. Your tricks were good, but besides that you edit
was just straight ski porn with no originality or whatsoever. The Teams Canada,
NS and Norway showed much more than straight jumps and “hyphy” railz. The
edited their footage and created one of a kind, extraordinary videos.
Dumont and Fuck you Wallish. Do you really think that being good at a sports allows
you do to anything you want without consequences? Guess what. NO.Time to look
at your own cocky asses and face the reality. Leaking your edit = less money
from sponsors. Who the fuck do you think gave you the opportunity to come to
Europe, Sweden for almost 2 weeks, gave you free accommodation and food, build
the world’s best jumps for you for almost no cost at all. You might say Jon?
Yes it is partly true but Jon is only the organizer. He didn’t pay for all this
stuff from his own money. He has worked his ass off for a long time just to
find people who can actually afford you a free 12 day trip to Sweden for you.
In return for all this hard work you do this. FACE THE REALITY you ungrateful,
cocky faggots.
Whats the
purpose of leaking this edit? To show and brag to people how fucking cool you
are?You think you shoulda won. Your tricks were good, but besides that you edit
was just straight ski porn with no originality or whatsoever. The Teams Canada,
NS and Norway showed much more than straight jumps and “hyphy” railz. The
edited their footage and created one of a kind, extraordinary videos.
Ignorance at it's best. Tom made more money this year than your parents probably did combined. His career is already on its way and isn't gonna stop anytime soon. There are so many other skiers that have been around way longer than tom and they make much less than tom has his first big year.
Note: i am referring to a ski career as making money, not other accomplishments, etc.there is a whole different side of a ski career that has nothing to do with money.
Note: i am referring to a ski career as making money, not other accomplishments, etc.there is a whole different side of a ski career that has nothing to do with money.
WikiWiki
Active member
yea true story- that whole letter was complete bs- the didnt win- they broke the rules- and because they are getting a backlash now have to give their side- which -all things considered- i find it extremely hard to believe that they released it just to stoke kids- i mean come on- wallisch was hyping it up after the outlash-
big loss of respect for team america- which blows because they were my favorite by far
big loss of respect for team america- which blows because they were my favorite by far
T-Nutcracker
Active member
I dont care about his post. What's been done, cannot be undone.
Whatever bullshit they came up with as an explanation, it still doesnt change the fact that after being invited to such a amazing event by Jon, the send a major fuck you to Jon.
Whatever bullshit they came up with as an explanation, it still doesnt change the fact that after being invited to such a amazing event by Jon, the send a major fuck you to Jon.
monki
Member
He also describes us as "not speaking to him or saying goodbye because
of our score" which is completely untrue. We didn't have a chance to
talk to him at the awards, and apparently never went out of our way to
search out where he was staying to find him and thank him.
This is not true, I talked with a friend who was at the official afterparty and Simon and the rest where at the afterparty and Jon was also there as well as the other teams;filmers, they where avoiding Jon the day after. They would never have to "search" for Jon to say goodbye and/or thanks, bullshit.
of our score" which is completely untrue. We didn't have a chance to
talk to him at the awards, and apparently never went out of our way to
search out where he was staying to find him and thank him.
This is not true, I talked with a friend who was at the official afterparty and Simon and the rest where at the afterparty and Jon was also there as well as the other teams;filmers, they where avoiding Jon the day after. They would never have to "search" for Jon to say goodbye and/or thanks, bullshit.
icon1234
Active member
Hey tool fuck chill out. You realize they had to pay for travel and transportation? You realize how their time could have been spent better by doing something else? Do you even know the concept of opportunity cost? You realize how (these are all assumptions btw but idc) their video had the best skiing out of all the other edits, but yet they get like last in a ski film competition. They pretty much just wasted 2 weeks of their lives, with nothing to show for it.
You make it sound as if them being there they couldn't have been doing anything else. If they had lost fair and square it would be one thing, but that judging format is retarded.
You make it sound as if them being there they couldn't have been doing anything else. If they had lost fair and square it would be one thing, but that judging format is retarded.
If you are talking about the letter a few posts up, that wasn't much of an apology. It was more of a lengthy criticism of the event masked with a few empty words of apology. While I don't know the details of this, it seems like Team America agreed to participate in the event and by doing so agreed to a particular set of rules. Therefore, no excuse such as " We've spent thousands of dollars traveling to and staying Sweden, and have nothing to show for it after 2 long weeks of work other than our edit. That is why we decided that we would share our video with the world as soon as possible." is relevant. They need to simply admit fault (which they have not done), apologize to jon, and learn how to lose, as how you accept defeat says a lot more about you than how you win.
It seems like a measly 20 grand wasn't even the point of this thing to me anyway, more just the opportunity to ski on these jumps which would have been at least that expensive to build.
It seems like a measly 20 grand wasn't even the point of this thing to me anyway, more just the opportunity to ski on these jumps which would have been at least that expensive to build.
This is a lol, have you ever been to a rowdy party/bar and then been hung over/laying around in your room the next day? Talking to someone like Jon the day after his contest at the last huge party was probably next to impossible and they dipped the next day. Your friend sounds like a retard.
laurence^
Active member
It's all fun and games until thousands of dollars are put on the line. The issue at hand is no longer pertinent to actual skiing so much as it to business. Ideally, the athletes should have been required to sign contracts, that would have avoided a lot of the conflict being dealt with at the moment. If this entire situation would have been approached more professionally from the beginning all this counterproductive bickering and he say she say could have been avoided.