"jesus" die cut.

When I say that Jesus is love, I mean that what was accomplished by Jesus on the cross was love. We do not live in a world that is perfect, but that is kind of the point the bible makes when it says that the world was made and then responsibility and stewardship is handed over to man. If we are so quick to blame God then we should be equally quick to blame either ourselves or the enemy.

As a christian I don't believe that we should sit back and 'enjoy' suffering, I think that we should trust God through it, many people think that Jesus came to get people out of suffering, or around suffering, or avoid suffering, but he didn't Jesus came to get people through it. Jesus loves us and came to die for us so that we may not let suffering overcome us.

If you ask why does God allow suffering, he could ask you the same thing, since there are probably times in your life that you could have helped someone out but didn't. :-) I am not guilt tripping here, I am just a bit of an advocate for a love revolution! :-)

I make so many mistakes in my life, just tonight I did something pretty bad, but asking God for forgiveness and trusting God through it is not a 'cop out' but an admission of sin, and a path to getting through that.

The choice we have in our lives is a recognition that we are human, since if God was either indisputable or irresistable then we would be robots. :-)

If you think Jesus should look after his own business and leave you alone, then his reply is that you are his business and he will never leave you alone, he loves you!

safe
 
You aren't a very good Christian if you aren't capitalizing 'he' every time you mention God.

And he won't want anything to do with me after this.

badreligionlogo.jpg


If God exists you are an ass Sir. Taking all but one of my grandparents away before I could even know who they were, killing both of my mom's uncles in WWII, allowing my dad to go to Vietnam to only see the three guys he tore through high school with die in a foxhole from a mortar strike. As far as I am concerned you are a major fucking prick and I hope that when I die I go to the gate and am turned away and can go on a rampage and see you face to face so I can slap you.
 
haha we had glossary words and it was something along that lines... Christian liberal- It just doesnt make sense
 
God didnt kill your grandparents, health did. God didnt kill your mom's uncles, the consequences of WWII did. God didnt make your dad goto Vietnam, the US government did.
 
haha true, i probably should capitalise it i heard that is the benchmark :-)

also half the new testament was written by a converted terrorist, you would probably have to do worse than that to be disasociated :-)

I really hope that before you die you experiance his love, what you said about God doing those things I am really sorry that they are on your mind and I will pray for you dude. I do not believe that God did those things.

also I really hate religion and rules, you don't have to follow any rules to become a christian! Heaven isn't full of good people it is full of forgiven people :-)

he still loves you!

safe
 
My family's experience religion won't allow me to ever go to it. My dad's mother got sick with pneumonia when she first immigrated to the States from Romania. She couldn't attend mass (Catholic) for awhile or give that small donation of money. When she got good enough to go back, they put her at the back of the Cathedral instead of where she used to sit towards the front.

I went to a Lutheran pre school. My mom who is from Japan wanted to give me that chance to choose for myself whether I wanted to be like other kids my age and have a religion. I had my jacket, hat, and some shoes stolen from me while I was in the Lutheran church.

Yeah, I will never turn to religion.
 
As far as the beginning. Jesus was probably a ridiculously cool dude, down to earth, ahead of his time. But not anything like what people perceive him today.

"We do not live in a world that is perfect, but that is kind of the point the bible makes when it says that the world was made and then responsibility and stewardship is handed over to man. If we are so quick to blame God then we should be equally quick to blame either ourselves or the enemy. "

Look at all the wars/conflicts in the name of god. Who is the enemy?

" I think that we should trust God through it, many people think that Jesus came to get people out of suffering, or around suffering, or avoid suffering, but he didn't Jesus came to get people through it. " So God is like a security blanket. You pretend it will keep you safe and you feel better. Maybe a journal, you went everything through it and feel better after. It can't talk back but at least you can pretend it's listening.

"Jesus loves us and came to die for us so that we may not let suffering overcome us. " And you know this because.....

", he could ask you the same thing, since there are probably times in your life that you could have helped someone out but didn't. " True but I don't call myself God.

"I make so many mistakes in my life, just tonight I did something pretty bad, but asking God for forgiveness and trusting God through it is not a 'cop out' but an admission of sin, and a path to getting through that. " Hopefully the judge will understand that you settled it with God and you record will stay clean.

"If you think Jesus should look after his own business and leave you alone, then his reply is that you are his business and he will never leave you alone, he loves you! " How do you know what his reply is?

I'm all about the pursuit of happiness. I also believe in karma. I try and help out others when ever I can and live a decent life. this has nothing to do with religion, just a respect for the earth and the people on it, even some who maybe don't deserve it. Maybe I don't have anyone that i can pretend is telling me everything's going to be alright, or pretend giving me guidance. I do have a conscience and a brain. I'd rather let that guide me than a make believe voice.

That's the thing that sucks about religion or some other ideals. You get kid's hooked at a young age by drilling it into them while there still so impressionable. Then it's much harder for them to look at the situation open minded.

I can say that I don't know. You can't. You already "know" the truth.
 
"because the world would be overpopulated" duhhhhhh

Heres a good question. Why is god such a pussy he wont strike me down
 
yeah. i love having discussions with people about religion. its really funny to hear someone try to rationalize their religion, try to prove to me that god exists.

this is a song that i always thought summed up my feelings about organized religion pretty well.



EMPTY PROMISES

You came to me with salvation,

saying I must repent. You offer up your redemption, a guarantee for a

better life in your safe world. Your illusions are comfort for your

conscience. My sacrifices will be made in honor of what is truly

sacred. How can you save me, when you can't save yourself? You can't

save yourself.






 
True man, sorry yeh am not trying to drill it in or 'get people hooked' sorry to give that impression. I became a christian less than two years ago, none of my family are, and I have not got a huge amount of friends who are, for me it was totally a choice I made through discussing, asking and learning.

And if someone came to me with evidence which disproved some of my major doctrinal beliefs then I will for sure listen.

I think your attitude is pretty awesome when it comes to treating others well etc, :-) I mean I obviously believe that your conscience comes from God, but yeh it's true good stuff happens all the time :-)

Also about the enemy - what I believe is what the bible says, that their are powerful demon God's out there, I know that probably sounds a bit whacky, but I became a christian because of God's love, not out of fear or guilt for an enemy! :-)

safe
 
Theres this song that keeps playing on the radio, not really my style. i think its as tall as lions. The one line I always here is "Can't you see, It's better to die on your feet than live down on your knees"

 
"And if someone came to me with evidence which disproved some of my major doctrinal beliefs then I will for sure listen. " So you believe them all first, and then keep believing until somebody disproves them. How about what evidence do you have in the first place to believe any of it?

"

Also about the enemy - what I believe is what the bible says, that their are powerful demon God's out there, I know that probably sounds a bit whacky, but I became a christian because of God's love, not out of fear or guilt for an enemy! " What love? Can you give an example. As far as evil, I can't really argue there being evil in the world. I would consider them demons but there is def evil, and people that are possessed by it.

 
"Know why Catholic girls are so good at giving head?"

"No, why?"

"Cause they have lots of practice kneeling down."
 
2 things from this:

1. Clear up what you mean by not forcing anyone: Operating in the confines of Christian faith, God provides you with two options: a. believe in him and get into heaven b.do not believe in him and go to hell

strictly speaking these are two options one is free to make, however, it's not exactly a fair choice, as exampled by Pascal's reasoning (you should end up choosing to believe in God out of fear or prudence).

the point here is that if you really wanted to say that you're not forced into your beliefs, God would have given you the power to decide your afterlife without qualification (having to believe in him).

2. On the topic of you, personally, not forcing others to believe; This works well with most people you encounter, however, because of point 1, (where God does not let someone choose to not believe in him and get into heaven) you have to admit that you fully believe that if someone doesn't believe in God, then you know they'll end up in hell. Applying this knowledge to someone you love, means you'd be a pretty awful person for not trying your hardest to make the person you love the most to share your belief.
 
So the evidence through which I believe is because I read the evidence of Christ, I read the bible and I was convicted that it was true in my heart.

In terms of actual evidence, like historical, there are a number of external sources to the bible as well as stuff in the bible itself making it credible as a historic source. I must stress that I did not know all the evidence when Jesus came into my life, I learnt it after. This is where faith comes in, but the bible is clear that this faith is not something we contribute - i.e. I cannot boast I have more faith than you, (Galations 6:14)

Sorry, when I say God's love, I mean a relationship with God where I can see that God loves me through both what he did for me through Jesus on the cross and also day to day.

An example in my own life was that I was smoke dope, drinking etc and loving it, but was never really satisfied by it. Then without me searching God put someone in my life who I feel he used to introduce me to the bible. It took a year for me to get what the gospel actually meant, but I feel that God's love is shown because now I have stopped doing those things I can see that God helped me give up those things for my own good. I have never felt God imposing on me, just as I never want to oppose on anyone else. Equally God did so much more than just help me give up, he filled my life with joy and made me excited to help people who really need help, showing people love in everything I do (emphatically NOT speaking bible at people or anything weird - I mean like just serving drunk students by giving them tea and coffee and water etc)

Either way, sorry if it sounds like preaching, I get a bit carried away!

Sparknotes: I feel God's love, not as a weird voice, but as a tangible love through me friends, myself and through the world befoe me. I love people!

safe
 
Where exactly did you look when you said you looked. Being brought up in the church and constantly being bombarded with it form a young age, and the fact that you're going to hell if you don't listen can cloud the judgment a little bit.
 
haha true, I got a bit carried away! :-) :-) think page one has all the answers...(to the sticker, not necessarily life, these can be found on pages 3-4) :-)

safe
 
So you're telling me you didn't believe it because you were brought up in it. You went and looked for the answers and chose your religion. But you looked for your answers in the book of your religion and never outside of it... No wonder you would have no reason to think other wise, You've never actually looked at it from both sides. How can you make a decision seemingly that important without looking at it form all the angles? You're going to be a missionary telling everybody about your faith, which you pretty much only believe because you were brought up on it. Unfortunately that's how it is for a lot of people.
 
My friend has one. He actually is on like a snowboard mission in japan. Cool kid, not religious myself but they do look kinda cool. I want one that says "tanner" in cursive.
 
If you believe that God is omnipotent, you're giving him a whole lot of leniency by saying that he was not able to create a world which provided you with both free choice and freedom from hell.

I like KV's idea: believe in the abstract concept of the human community and to behave decently without expectation of rewards or punishment after you are dead.
 
"But the thing is, when you find truth, you don't go off and say: well yeah its true but I've not considered everything possible out there, so I cannot possibly know" So how do you know it's the truth, exactly you don't. I mean I can understand looking to the scripture, but if your trying to find out the truth you need to examine everything. Not just the book you were raised on.

"So when I say I know, its based on "evidence" you could say, that I cannot get anywhere else" Again what evidence?

"if its simple logic or rhetoric that you want to get you there its not going to happen" So there is no logic in religion?

"The thing is, if someone doesn't want to know or believe, they won't. But if someone seeks it sincerely they'll find it." It's not that I don't want to believe, it's that I do not want to believe anything blindly. If it makes sense, and is the most logical conclusion based on the evidence then it's the most real thing to me. Not looking for any other evidence, or not looking to disprove what you believe in seems crazy. How real can your faith be if you've never examined it and tried to find holes in it.

"Consider this: at some point every person is backed up against a wall, and the choice is to choose faith or not." Being in a foxhole getting shot at and choosing faith because you have nothing to lose and hope is all you have=not a good reason for religion. Desperate people in bad situations will clean to anything they can, that's understandable, that doesn't prove religion though.

" I can try to answer every question you have, but eventually after every question is answered, it comes to the individual to make that stand and decide for themself. So my solution to you is this: Look into my faith, it is true, and if you look sincerely I can tell you the truth is there to be found. If you ask in faith that Jesus is the Christ with a desire to know, it will be shown unto you. If you don't want to know though, you won't." Oh really? You're faith, again which is based on nothing but what you were brought up with should be a shinning example to my awful life.

As for the ending, I actually have prayed that many times in the past. Nothing real was ever exposed. Now I ask the same thing some times but it's more to the universe in general, not to god or any religion or thing in particular.

There is truth to be found everywhere, but in this particular situation I don't believe you've found it. And since your quest ended before it ever began I doubt that will ever change for you

 


"Faith in your partner, your fellow men, your friends, is very important, because without it there's no mutual component to your relationship, and relationships are important. So faith plays an important role, but faith in people you don't know, faith in religious or political leaders or even people on stages, people who are popular in the public eye, you shouldn't have faith in those people. You should listen to what they have to say and use it."

-Greg Graffin

 
For me I would much rather believe in something where the guy can come out and say "hey look, here I am"...

Buddhism has that. All Buddhism really is is says liver your life well and you will have a good life. None of this if you believe you can go to heaven otherwise you don't blahblahblahblah. I went to a Lutheran preschool and went to a Catholic private school for a year until I was kicked out at 6 years old for asking the headmaster if God exists why doesn't He come down and say hi or his He shy/non existent. I wasn't around the next week.
 
i only read the first page, but is anyone else with me when i think
" does that bouncing fucking sheep thing arabian motherfucker even ski? or does he get on newschoolers to fuck around and express his gaymotions
 
no redcorn is upstairs giving nancy a migraine treatment. and i have no ss number.....

my name is rusty...
rusty shakleford...
 
The other problem I have is that for enjoyment I train MMA which means I beat the shit out of people. Kinda opposite of the whole "Love Thy Neighbor" thing.
 
Actually, you only do it so you can roll around holding sweaty half naked men in your arms. Thy neighbor is definitely feeling the love.
 
So it doesn't make enough sense to understand, but god understand it so it makes sense?

" it doesn't always make sense or appeal, but that doesn't change that I know it to be true." You're right it doesn't really make much sense. People thinking they "know" is a problem these days. You said you hadn't looked at anything other than your religion to prove it.

" But I promise if you do as I have instructed, you will have followed the same process as me, and I believe you'll get the same result." Already on a different path. I started in the same area. i decided to look at it from all sides. I figured, if it's real and I come back to it knowing that it's true, my faith would be that much more real too me. The more information I found the farther away I went. Prayers unanswered, i don't mean i didn't get what i wanted, i mean nothing happened. I was talking on the phone with nobody on the other end, no voice, no cryptic message. nothing.

But I still can say I don't know. I'm open to anything. But I go where the facts take me. Religion isn't really doing so well. I'm a big boy, I can live my life on my own, with myself to be accountable. I don't need to run to my imaginary friend throughout the day.

 
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