J Skis ripping off other brands... again

14053213:zero* said:
I'm not saying there are any 'secrets' about 4Frnt. Your business strategy is pretty out in the open with both brands: Don't pay many (/any?) riders, don't support the industry, keep prices down and keep all the profits.

It's a fine strategy if you're into profit maximization. But people should know, rather than treating a $600 dollar J-Ski like a $600 ski from another brand in terms of what that ski does for all the skiers who work in the industry (other than J who I'm sure is doing great, and his very few staff). By the industry I mean, professional skiers, production companies, ski shops etc etc. Obviously, 4Frnt is the strongest (most profitable) it has ever been. But if you fancy it, how about publishing some numbers on how much money goes to riders salaries/travel budgets, producing ski content generally, heck probably even R&D at 4Frnt now vs pre-takeover (let's say early-mid 2010s), I'm sure everyone would love to see those.
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Jason is overly transparent with his business strategies because a) he's tried everything over the years and this is what works and b) they're the only way for a small brand to survive in skiing, so he wants his thoughts and philosophies out there for other brands to understand, utilize and thrive. The way we see it the more small, indie brands doing rogue shit the more opportunity we have as a group to gain market share (ex. craft beer vs. AB InBev). You have super strong opinions on this which is awesome but unfortunately you're missing a lot of realities about the ski industry and business in general that are leading to tons of misinformation in your arguments.

As an example for a brand running via traditional methods (paying sales reps, distributors and shops) to break even they need to sell 25,000 pairs of skis per year. For a brand running direct to consumer they need to sell about 3,500 pairs of skis per year. It's foolish to conduct business like we're the size of Line or Armada, so you have to do things differently in order to get by and continue contributing to skiing as a whole.

If we were interested in maximizing profits we wouldn't be a ski company, straight up, and if anyone outside of skiing actually saw our numbers at the end of the year they'd question our sanity. Jason founded this company on the idea of continuing the revolution he started with Line but by utilizing modern tools and techniques (i.e. e-commerce). As far as athletes/production companies, we do what we can. We run things lean & mean because you need to be scrappy in this industry. We're not going out and signing the next Tom Wallisch because we can't afford him, and we know that. We're working with underground (and yes, sometimes more high-profile people) who fit our vibe and support them well for what they're expected to provide for us.

Truth is even if you are "turning a profit" in the ski industry you're never getting ahead. Whether there's some money in the bank at the end of the year doesn't change the fact that we then have to shell out $1m+ in production costs, money that we don't have and that Jason needs to convince banks to lend us. Sure, we could raise the price of our skis a hundred bucks a piece but we're not going to do that. We want to help the sport of skiing but giving skiers a better performing, longer lasting product at the same or less cost to them than buying from a major brand.

We're also constantly working to test new processes, materials, shapes and innovative features (give it a few months there's something pretty cool in the works), so rest assured the "R&D" budget is maxed out every season.

Basically dude, you need to have the facts before going on a rant about something you actually don't know all that much about. Hopefully this arms you with some more information for the future and that while yeah, we're not Volkl shelling out tens of thousands of dollars towards SLVSH Cup (which is fucking bad ass, props to them for doing it), we're all here because we love skiing and want to make the sport better for the future, even if that's not in the ways you recognize.

Taylor

**This post was edited on Aug 22nd 2019 at 1:18:13pm
 
They are ripping off the department of defense with that camouflage pattern. They should send me one to verify that its not copyright infringement. Also a pair of 186 Vacations in the Brotherhood 2 to verify they are not in violation of copyright laws. I will verify and let everyone know.
 
how has no one brought up the MAGA rip off yet... or the nasa.. lol

it's all in good fun fellas (and marketing of course)

lighten up folks. it's just skiing
 
14053278:J_skis said:
I'm on board. Who's getting the "change.org" campaign up and running?

Pit Viper has also been begging us to change the "Allplay" to "Assplay" for years... might as well get two birds stoned at once and petition for both of them.
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on it bud
 
14053281:J_skis said:
Jason is overly transparent with his business strategies because a) he's tried everything over the years and this is what works and b) they're the only way for a small brand to survive in skiing. The way we see it the more small, indie brands doing rogue shit the more opportunity we have as a group to gain market share (ex. craft beer vs. AB InBev). You have super strong opinions on this which is awesome but unfortunately you're missing a lot of realities about the ski industry and business in general that are leading to tons of misinformation in your arguments.

As an example for a brand running via traditional methods (paying sales reps, distributors and shops) to break even they need to sell 25,000 pairs of skis per year. For a brand running direct to consumer they need to sell about 3,500 pairs of skis per year. It's foolish to conduct business like we're the size of Line or Armada, so you have to do things differently in order to get by and continue contributing to skiing as a whole. If we were interested in maximizing profits we wouldn't be a ski company, straight up, and if anyone outside of skiing actually saw our numbers at the end of the year they'd question our sanity.

Jason founded this company on the idea of continuing the revolution he started with Line but by utilizing modern tools and techniques (i.e. e-commerce). As far as athletes/production companies, we do what we can. We run things lean & mean because you need to be scrappy in this industry. We're not going out and signing the next Tom Wallisch because we can't afford him, and we know that. We're working with underground (and yes, sometimes more high-profile people) who fit our vibe and support them well for what they're expected to provide for us.

Truth is even if you are "turning a profit" in the ski industry you're never getting ahead. Whether there's some money in the bank at the end of the year doesn't change the fact that we then have to shell out $1m+ in production costs, money that we don't have and that Jason needs to convince banks to lend us. Sure, we could raise the price of our skis a hundred bucks a piece but we're not going to do that. We want to help the sport of skiing but giving skiers a better performing, longer lasting product at the same or less cost to them than buying from a major brand.

We're also constantly working to test new processes, materials, shapes and innovative features (give it a few months there's something pretty cool in the works), so rest assured the "R&D" budget is maxed out every season.

Basically dude, you need to have the facts before going on a rant about something you actually don't know all that much about. Hopefully this arms you with some more information for the future and that while yeah, we're not Volkl shelling out tens of thousands of dollars towards SLVSH Cup (which is fucking bad ass, props to them for doing it), we're all here because we love skiing and want to make the sport better for the future, even if that's not in the ways you recognize.

Taylor

**This post was edited on Aug 22nd 2019 at 1:18:13pm
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Oh, it's the old 'in the know' argument when this is a question of business choices, not facts. To state that Jason knows best is doing things the only way possible is more misinformative than anything I could possibly say (and crazy egoistical). He's a pioneer, but that doesn't make him some kind of oracle. It could potentially be that the J Skis/4Frnt model is the only way for a small brand to make what he/you consider an acceptable amount of money (for him to cash in on his success perhaps?). Obviously, nobody is really making the big bucks on ski production but hey, he's doing pretty nicely right? And then if you wanted to cash in, you'd put some already successful slogans on cheap clothing and... oh wait that's where we started.

The inconvenient fact in all this, and this is a fact, is that other small brands exist using very different strategies to J Skis. Brands that have grown, supporting the ski industry more meaningfully, having initially sold fewer skis. At least a couple I can think of sell far fewer to this day. Yet, they've put their skis in shops, grown factories, supported more significant teams, produced ski content etc. I'm not going to mention names, because they can join the debate if they wish, but I can think of at least 5 examples with different financial models that have existed significantly longer than J.

So yes, to his credit, J is pretty transparent with some of his strategy and, to be fair, you have some unbelievable marketing skills. But the reality is that the strategy amounts to cost-cutting, even when those costs are the things that keep much of the ski industry afloat albeit struggling. You've said it here, with some sugar-coating. He's said it in interviews. People can support that or not as they choose.
 
14053450:zero* said:
Oh, it's the old 'in the know' argument when this is a question of business choices, not facts. To state that Jason knows best is doing things the only way possible is more misinformative than anything I could possibly say (and crazy egoistical). He's a pioneer, but that doesn't make him some kind of oracle. It could potentially be that the J Skis/4Frnt model is the only way for a small brand to make what he/you consider an acceptable amount of money (for him to cash in on his success perhaps?). Obviously, nobody is really making the big bucks on ski production but hey, he's doing pretty nicely right? And then if you wanted to cash in, you'd put some already successful slogans on cheap clothing and... oh wait that's where we started.

The inconvenient fact in all this, and this is a fact, is that other small brands exist using very different strategies to J Skis. Brands that have grown, supporting the ski industry more meaningfully, having initially sold fewer skis. At least a couple I can think of sell far fewer to this day. Yet, they've put their skis in shops, grown factories, supported more significant teams, produced ski content etc. I'm not going to mention names, because they can join the debate if they wish, but I can think of at least 5 examples with different financial models that have existed significantly longer than J.

So yes, to his credit, J is pretty transparent with some of his strategy and, to be fair, you have some unbelievable marketing skills. But the reality is that the strategy amounts to cost-cutting, even when those costs are the things that keep much of the ski industry afloat albeit struggling. You've said it here, with some sugar-coating. He's said it in interviews. People can support that or not as they choose.
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jay sold his stake in Line to K2. im sure he's doing juuuuuust fine. and Jskis is his way of returning back to when line was smaller and he had more creative freedom.
 
14053450:zero* said:
Oh, it's the old 'in the know' argument when this is a question of business choices, not facts. To state that Jason knows best is doing things the only way possible is more misinformative than anything I could possibly say (and crazy egoistical). He's a pioneer, but that doesn't make him some kind of oracle. It could potentially be that the J Skis/4Frnt model is the only way for a small brand to make what he/you consider an acceptable amount of money (for him to cash in on his success perhaps?). Obviously, nobody is really making the big bucks on ski production but hey, he's doing pretty nicely right? And then if you wanted to cash in, you'd put some already successful slogans on cheap clothing and... oh wait that's where we started.

The inconvenient fact in all this, and this is a fact, is that other small brands exist using very different strategies to J Skis. Brands that have grown, supporting the ski industry more meaningfully, having initially sold fewer skis. At least a couple I can think of sell far fewer to this day. Yet, they've put their skis in shops, grown factories, supported more significant teams, produced ski content etc. I'm not going to mention names, because they can join the debate if they wish, but I can think of at least 5 examples with different financial models that have existed significantly longer than J.

So yes, to his credit, J is pretty transparent with some of his strategy and, to be fair, you have some unbelievable marketing skills. But the reality is that the strategy amounts to cost-cutting, even when those costs are the things that keep much of the ski industry afloat albeit struggling. You've said it here, with some sugar-coating. He's said it in interviews. People can support that or not as they choose.
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To each their own my dude. We could go back and forth for days and never seen eye to this so I'm just gonna go back to work and keep selling skis.

I appreciate you putting you putting your thoughts down and stirring the pot, if we never challenged the status quo we'd be running around with our heads in our asses still skiing on straight skis.
 
14053454:freeskibum82 said:
jay sold his stake in Line to K2. im sure he's doing juuuuuust fine. and Jskis is his way of returning back to when line was smaller and he had more creative freedom.
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Jason actually lost money selling Line to K2 (they were so in-debt that all K2 did was buy them out of that). If you haven't seen his Ted Talk yet I'd highly recommend giving it a watch, super good perspective into the last 20 years of freeskiing: https://jskis.com/pages/about



But yeah, second part is super true. Our motto here at the office is "speed of thought" so to not be bogged down by traditional timelines allows us to create, test and bring new shit to market years before you would be able to otherwise. Jason's an entrepreneur through and through, he just happens to love skiing and helping the ski industry thrive.
 
[tag=209275]@J_skis[/tag] you guys ever gonna make a metal/masterblaster/allplay in big boy flavors? I'd be all about trying the metal if I can get a 189+
 
This might be the quickest brand callout thread in NS history that the brands/owners said fuck the noise and chimed in.
 
14053281:J_skis said:
Jason is overly transparent with his business strategies because a) he's tried everything over the years and this is what works and b) they're the only way for a small brand to survive in skiing, so he wants his thoughts and philosophies out there for other brands to understand, utilize and thrive. The way we see it the more small, indie brands doing rogue shit the more opportunity we have as a group to gain market share (ex. craft beer vs. AB InBev). You have super strong opinions on this which is awesome but unfortunately you're missing a lot of realities about the ski industry and business in general that are leading to tons of misinformation in your arguments.

As an example for a brand running via traditional methods (paying sales reps, distributors and shops) to break even they need to sell 25,000 pairs of skis per year. For a brand running direct to consumer they need to sell about 3,500 pairs of skis per year. It's foolish to conduct business like we're the size of Line or Armada, so you have to do things differently in order to get by and continue contributing to skiing as a whole.

If we were interested in maximizing profits we wouldn't be a ski company, straight up, and if anyone outside of skiing actually saw our numbers at the end of the year they'd question our sanity. Jason founded this company on the idea of continuing the revolution he started with Line but by utilizing modern tools and techniques (i.e. e-commerce). As far as athletes/production companies, we do what we can. We run things lean & mean because you need to be scrappy in this industry. We're not going out and signing the next Tom Wallisch because we can't afford him, and we know that. We're working with underground (and yes, sometimes more high-profile people) who fit our vibe and support them well for what they're expected to provide for us.

Truth is even if you are "turning a profit" in the ski industry you're never getting ahead. Whether there's some money in the bank at the end of the year doesn't change the fact that we then have to shell out $1m+ in production costs, money that we don't have and that Jason needs to convince banks to lend us. Sure, we could raise the price of our skis a hundred bucks a piece but we're not going to do that. We want to help the sport of skiing but giving skiers a better performing, longer lasting product at the same or less cost to them than buying from a major brand.

We're also constantly working to test new processes, materials, shapes and innovative features (give it a few months there's something pretty cool in the works), so rest assured the "R&D" budget is maxed out every season.

Basically dude, you need to have the facts before going on a rant about something you actually don't know all that much about. Hopefully this arms you with some more information for the future and that while yeah, we're not Volkl shelling out tens of thousands of dollars towards SLVSH Cup (which is fucking bad ass, props to them for doing it), we're all here because we love skiing and want to make the sport better for the future, even if that's not in the ways you recognize.

Taylor

**This post was edited on Aug 22nd 2019 at 1:18:13pm
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I would rather 4FRNT scale down a bit and stabilize than see the brand go out of business. I have ridden 4FRNT and followed the company since 2007 and while they did have a ton of unique pro models back in the day I think it diluted their overall product lineup with ski options crossing over each other etc. which caused some issues. That being said, the company has done a shit ton for our sport in ways a lot of younger guys dont understand including giving skis at cost to organizations like CUFST. They were really the first brand to pick up an athlete and say "Ok, make a ski the way you want and we will sell it with your initials." 4FRNT also gave CR Johnson as second chance after his injury and made the CRJ which is something I am eternally grateful for. I actually talked to CR for a while when I was at CU right when he got picked up and he was so genuinely stoked to be part of the company and work on his own ski. Hopefully 4FRNT can grab some up and coming guys in the future for their Whiteroom but I dont want to see them go under trying to do it.
 
14052994:J_skis said:
I'll pass it along to those dudes, also feel free to hit them up with ideas anytime too: info@4frnt.com
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Thanks man, I sent them an email as well. Here is the font I was thinking of. That style was dope back in the day.

937821.jpeg
 
14053281:J_skis said:
Jason is overly transparent with his business strategies because a) he's tried everything over the years and this is what works and b) they're the only way for a small brand to survive in skiing, so he wants his thoughts and philosophies out there for other brands to understand, utilize and thrive. The way we see it the more small, indie brands doing rogue shit the more opportunity we have as a group to gain market share (ex. craft beer vs. AB InBev). You have super strong opinions on this which is awesome but unfortunately you're missing a lot of realities about the ski industry and business in general that are leading to tons of misinformation in your arguments.

As an example for a brand running via traditional methods (paying sales reps, distributors and shops) to break even they need to sell 25,000 pairs of skis per year. For a brand running direct to consumer they need to sell about 3,500 pairs of skis per year. It's foolish to conduct business like we're the size of Line or Armada, so you have to do things differently in order to get by and continue contributing to skiing as a whole.

If we were interested in maximizing profits we wouldn't be a ski company, straight up, and if anyone outside of skiing actually saw our numbers at the end of the year they'd question our sanity. Jason founded this company on the idea of continuing the revolution he started with Line but by utilizing modern tools and techniques (i.e. e-commerce). As far as athletes/production companies, we do what we can. We run things lean & mean because you need to be scrappy in this industry. We're not going out and signing the next Tom Wallisch because we can't afford him, and we know that. We're working with underground (and yes, sometimes more high-profile people) who fit our vibe and support them well for what they're expected to provide for us.

Truth is even if you are "turning a profit" in the ski industry you're never getting ahead. Whether there's some money in the bank at the end of the year doesn't change the fact that we then have to shell out $1m+ in production costs, money that we don't have and that Jason needs to convince banks to lend us. Sure, we could raise the price of our skis a hundred bucks a piece but we're not going to do that. We want to help the sport of skiing but giving skiers a better performing, longer lasting product at the same or less cost to them than buying from a major brand.

We're also constantly working to test new processes, materials, shapes and innovative features (give it a few months there's something pretty cool in the works), so rest assured the "R&D" budget is maxed out every season.

Basically dude, you need to have the facts before going on a rant about something you actually don't know all that much about. Hopefully this arms you with some more information for the future and that while yeah, we're not Volkl shelling out tens of thousands of dollars towards SLVSH Cup (which is fucking bad ass, props to them for doing it), we're all here because we love skiing and want to make the sport better for the future, even if that's not in the ways you recognize.

Taylor

**This post was edited on Aug 22nd 2019 at 1:18:13pm
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Haha too long and i didnt read, NERD !!!

THIS POST IS SPONSORED BY THE VRMVDA POW BOiii GVNG OF THE WICKED EAST !!!
 
14053492:oldmanski said:
So if Ford makes a blue car and Chevy makes a blue car is Chevy ripping ford off?? Hmmmmm
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If I put a funnel in my rectum...proceed to butt chug a beer and some liquor. You know... to prepare for a big hit. If someone does it after me...am I being ripped off? Every company making twin tips owes J royalties. Pay the man. I’ll always buy his skis because I like having a ski that only a couple hundred people on the planet have.

This isn’t a sarcastic reply to your post. I actually laughed really hard at the comparison. Simple things in life man.
 
14053495:StankDankin said:
If I put a funnel in my rectum...proceed to butt chug a beer and some liquor. You know... to prepare for a big hit. If someone does it after me...am I being ripped off? Every company making twin tips owes J royalties. Pay the man. I’ll always buy his skis because I like having a ski that only a couple hundred people on the planet have.

This isn’t a sarcastic reply to your post. I actually laughed really hard at the comparison. Simple things in life man.
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I couldnt agree with you more, that is why I made the post. It is a stupid comparison but simple. I am saving some cash at the moment and will have a set of J skis in my lineup this season.
 
14053497:oldmanski said:
I couldnt agree with you more, that is why I made the post. It is a stupid comparison but simple. I am saving some cash at the moment and will have a set of J skis in my lineup this season.
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I'm about to own my second pair in a few short weeks or third if [tag=209275]@J_skis[/tag] would send me a pair to verify copyright on. Couldn't be happier with them either. Plus customer service is top notch, they warrantied bindings I got from them and the second they saw i shipped them they sent my refund. Best ski company I've dealt with in my 15 years of skiing.
 
14053464:Biffbarf said:
[tag=209275]@J_skis[/tag] you guys ever gonna make a metal/masterblaster/allplay in big boy flavors? I'd be all about trying the metal if I can get a 189+
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The Metal is up for redesign this year to be released either next year (if we have protos we're stoked on by mag test time) or the following year if it takes longer to refine. I think we're gonna go about it the same way we did the Friend and bump sizes up 2 or 3cm, so it's likely we'd start offering in a 189cm length. Gotta see how things shake out since it's still numbers in a program nothing physical yet but we definitely want to hit that upper end for the hard chargers
 
14053500:CatdickBojangles said:
I'm about to own my second pair in a few short weeks or third if [tag=209275]@J_skis[/tag] would send me a pair to verify copyright on. Couldn't be happier with them either. Plus customer service is top notch, they warrantied bindings I got from them and the second they saw i shipped them they sent my refund. Best ski company I've dealt with in my 15 years of skiing.
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Damn, this means a lot. We put a ton of energy into providing the best customer service experience possible to really make people feel like part of the team, so it's awesome to know that y'all appreciate it.

Haaa! I think we'll take our chances with copyright law but hit me up directly taylor@jskis.com and I'll give you a little discount code for the continued stoke and loyalty. Couldn't be doing this without rad customers like you
 
14053464:Biffbarf said:
[tag=209275]@J_skis[/tag] you guys ever gonna make a metal/masterblaster/allplay in big boy flavors? I'd be all about trying the metal if I can get a 189+
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Small boy hours
 
14053454:freeskibum82 said:
jay sold his stake in Line to K2. im sure he's doing juuuuuust fine. and Jskis is his way of returning back to when line was smaller and he had more creative freedom.
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Heads up, by the time I sold Line to K2, we were so in debt almost bankrupt they bought Line by simply paying off our debt. Not $1 was made by me in the "sale" of the company. I tell the full story with all the details in this TED Talk. I then went on to be an employee for K2 like everyone else running Line and starting Full Tilt for them. I am forever greateful for K2 bailing out one of the most important ski brands in recent history, but I definitely wasn't doing "juuuuuuust fine" haha

The 2nd part you say is true! I started Jskis.com because I wanted to return to the flexibility and creative freedom to be able to do WTF I wanted because what's good for skiing and a companies employees is not always good for the bottom line of a public company.

Thanks for the stoke!
 
14053966:JGalletta123 said:
I’ve stopped liking Jskis these past few years, all their ads don’t seem like they take themselves seriously as a brand
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You got that right!!!

It's just skiing.
 
Heads up (I totally forgot about this last week) we also have these neck tubes in production currently sporting that same design / phrase to accompany our "Hornet" ski. Figured I'd call us out for "ripping off other brands" before someone else does haha

937976.jpeg
 
I’m gonna buy one of these just because of this thread

14054152:J_skis said:
Heads up (I totally forgot about this last week) we also have these neck tubes in production currently sporting that same design / phrase to accompany our "Hornet" ski. Figured I'd call us out for "ripping off other brands" before someone else does haha

View attachment 937976
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14054913:Young_patty said:
But remember that time when armada,Vokl,Vishnu,ON3P, Nordica,Solomon, and K2 copied J by making twin tip skis?
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VERY debatable. IIRC the salomon 1080 came out in 98, and the ostness dragon (line's first twin tip SKI) came out in 99 i think

one could make the argument that skiboards were part of the evolution of twin tip skis, and line first made skiboards in like 95 i believe the story goes. but if we're going that route, kneissl had the bigfoot in like 91 or 92 i think, and that is 100% a skiboard

also the olin mark IV was a full size twin tip and that came out in like the 70s haha
 
14054922:SofaKingSick said:
VERY debatable. IIRC the salomon 1080 came out in 98, and the ostness dragon (line's first twin tip SKI) came out in 99 i think

one could make the argument that skiboards were part of the evolution of twin tip skis, and line first made skiboards in like 95 i believe the story goes. but if we're going that route, kneissl had the bigfoot in like 91 or 92 i think, and that is 100% a skiboard

also the olin mark IV was a full size twin tip and that came out in like the 70s haha
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Bigfoot was like not like twin tip and stuff, but you've got some correct dates for Salomon so thanks for bringing it up!

I didn't invent the twin tip ski, and neither did Salomon. There were wooden twin tip skis photographers used in the early 1900's, and ballet skiing twin tips in the 70's.

I just brought to market a modern day version twin tip ski, in 1995 that were 99cm long called "skiboards". I wasn't the only brand, there were others that simply went out of business shortly after so they didn't get the long term credit. I got credit because Line stayed around long enough to earn the recognition. Then in 1997 Salomon released the "Snowblade". In spring 1998 we at Line were making and skiing longer twin tip skis the 193cm Ostness Dragon at Camp Of Champions Whistler glacier BC at same time Canadian Airforce was skiing 1080 named after a trick unrelated to going backwards.

Remember very few new things are actually new inventions, more so new variations that enable a lot of change to happen that were previously not possible, so it's recognized & remembered as "first". It really isn't about claiming who did what first. What's more important is how are you going to use the most recent new, to create something even newer, which will later fuel the next newer new. It's all about staying one step ahead of the future!
 
14053281:J_skis said:
Jason is overly transparent with his business strategies because a) he's tried everything over the years and this is what works and b) they're the only way for a small brand to survive in skiing, so he wants his thoughts and philosophies out there for other brands to understand, utilize and thrive. The way we see it the more small, indie brands doing rogue shit the more opportunity we have as a group to gain market share (ex. craft beer vs. AB InBev). You have super strong opinions on this which is awesome but unfortunately you're missing a lot of realities about the ski industry and business in general that are leading to tons of misinformation in your arguments.

As an example for a brand running via traditional methods (paying sales reps, distributors and shops) to break even they need to sell 25,000 pairs of skis per year. For a brand running direct to consumer they need to sell about 3,500 pairs of skis per year. It's foolish to conduct business like we're the size of Line or Armada, so you have to do things differently in order to get by and continue contributing to skiing as a whole.

If we were interested in maximizing profits we wouldn't be a ski company, straight up, and if anyone outside of skiing actually saw our numbers at the end of the year they'd question our sanity. Jason founded this company on the idea of continuing the revolution he started with Line but by utilizing modern tools and techniques (i.e. e-commerce). As far as athletes/production companies, we do what we can. We run things lean & mean because you need to be scrappy in this industry. We're not going out and signing the next Tom Wallisch because we can't afford him, and we know that. We're working with underground (and yes, sometimes more high-profile people) who fit our vibe and support them well for what they're expected to provide for us.

Truth is even if you are "turning a profit" in the ski industry you're never getting ahead. Whether there's some money in the bank at the end of the year doesn't change the fact that we then have to shell out $1m+ in production costs, money that we don't have and that Jason needs to convince banks to lend us. Sure, we could raise the price of our skis a hundred bucks a piece but we're not going to do that. We want to help the sport of skiing but giving skiers a better performing, longer lasting product at the same or less cost to them than buying from a major brand.

We're also constantly working to test new processes, materials, shapes and innovative features (give it a few months there's something pretty cool in the works), so rest assured the "R&D" budget is maxed out every season.

Basically dude, you need to have the facts before going on a rant about something you actually don't know all that much about. Hopefully this arms you with some more information for the future and that while yeah, we're not Volkl shelling out tens of thousands of dollars towards SLVSH Cup (which is fucking bad ass, props to them for doing it), we're all here because we love skiing and want to make the sport better for the future, even if that's not in the ways you recognize.

Taylor

**This post was edited on Aug 22nd 2019 at 1:18:13pm
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Been saying this for years boys... pay Zahner
 
14056103:JLev said:
Bigfoot was like not like twin tip and stuff, but you've got some correct dates for Salomon so thanks for bringing it up!

I didn't invent the twin tip ski, and neither did Salomon. There were wooden twin tip skis photographers used in the early 1900's, and ballet skiing twin tips in the 70's.

I just brought to market a modern day version twin tip ski, in 1995 that were 99cm long called "skiboards". I wasn't the only brand, there were others that simply went out of business shortly after so they didn't get the long term credit. I got credit because Line stayed around long enough to earn the recognition. Then in 1997 Salomon released the "Snowblade". In spring 1998 we at Line were making and skiing longer twin tip skis the 193cm Ostness Dragon at Camp Of Champions Whistler glacier BC at same time Canadian Airforce was skiing 1080 named after a trick unrelated to going backwards.

Remember very few new things are actually new inventions, more so new variations that enable a lot of change to happen that were previously not possible, so it's recognized & remembered as "first". It really isn't about claiming who did what first. What's more important is how are you going to use the most recent new, to create something even newer, which will later fuel the next newer new. It's all about staying one step ahead of the future!
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Can we see who downvoted this post and promptly ban them for being ignorant assholes?
 
I'm somewhat neutral on the subject but ran across a article I think New York times/post dated 1996 that may stir the pond a bit.

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Who cares, the “drop cliffs...” slogan is cheezy as fuck. I would exercise my pimp hand if i ran into someone wearing a jacket that said that.
 
14056378:StankDankin said:
Your Bob Ross Allplay is also gorgeous J. Aside from that Sam is a sick skier and his collaborations are dope.
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Thanks for the stoke! So hyped on how the Bob Ross collab turned out, the folks down at Bob Ross, Inc. are incredible people.

Also forgot to mention we collaborated with Jiberish on some gear to accompany Sam's skis that he's also making royalties off, you can check those pieces out here:

Shirt: https://jskis.com/products/street-rat-tee

Coaches Jacket: https://jskis.com/products/street-rat-coaches-jacket
 
14056501:Bruzote said:
LOL! In marketing, there is no such thing as bad press. Are you trying to help them?
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Most hits on jskis.com from NS in ages! Might have to hire this thread op ?
 
14056103:JLev said:
Remember very few new things are actually new inventions, more so new variations that enable a lot of change to happen that were previously not possible, so it's recognized & remembered as "first". It really isn't about claiming who did what first. What's more important is how are you going to use the most recent new, to create something even newer, which will later fuel the next newer new. It's all about staying one step ahead of the future!
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This is a great quote, I feel like it sums up JLev's character in context of what he's achieved in skiing.

Since you're answering questions in this thread Jason, is there anything you're doing with J skis today that you couldn't have done before going to work for K2?

I don't mean to disrespect all that you got done with Line and Full Tilt, just curious how you see this quote playing out in your own ski company.
 
14057852:jakeordie said:
This is a great quote, I feel like it sums up JLev's character in context of what he's achieved in skiing.

Since you're answering questions in this thread Jason, is there anything you're doing with J skis today that you couldn't have done before going to work for K2?

I don't mean to disrespect all that you got done with Line and Full Tilt, just curious how you see this quote playing out in your own ski company.
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Thanks for asking and the stoke Jake! Although the product's performance always needs to progress and we continue to innovate, the highest pace and most extreme ski re-design days are behind us and the new opportunity I wasn't able to achieve in the same capacity at a large public company is sell to and communicate and collaborate directly with the skiers riding our skis while moving at a much faster pace and with far more flexibility to create the products themselves.

Today all of the established large ski companies do not sell direct, nervous they'll "offend", then loose business from their current real customers... "ski shops". Obviously this would not be the case as seen in every other industry, even the largest like Nike and Quicksilver sell product through all distribution channels including direct. In skiing however I needed to create a new ski company Jskis.com to enabled me to sell directly to you, cutting out the middle men, so I can put more expensive, more durable materials, higher quality product, yet still sell it for a very competitive price with far more flexibility.

I'm also able to spend 100% of our time communicating daily directly with hundreds of skiers, literally speaking one on one with tens of thousands of customers over the course of a season... not simply the few stores that sell to you, My crew and I are talking 13 hours a day, 7 days a week to you on live chat, email, text, phone about skiing and our products, not distracted by selling to only a few middle men. This enables us to have a far better direct personal relationship with the skiers riding our skis that simply has not yet been achieved by existing established large ski companies. I've also been able to build smaller batches of Limited Edition skis and release them whenever we want not tied down to a traditional sales cycle like the rest of the industry. Cutting out the middle man also affords us also far more freedom to collab with a larger variety of brands and artists, to create far more unique products for you. Wether it's a collab with Bob Ross or Wu-Tang or Jerry of the Day, we'd rather re-invest back into keeping it fresh, expect the unexpected, not because it makes us more money, but because it contributes to making skiing a little more awesome. Same mission since '95 and couldn't be doing any of this without skiers like you!
 
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