BianKarrett
Member
Looking into getting some new skis and was wondering about the durability/quality of j skis. Also what have you heard or experienced from HG skis.
J skis HG skis
- Thread starter BianKarrett
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-Dan
Active member
I had a set of HG stingers that I rode for 100+ days and all I do is hit rails over and over. I lost some edge by 80 or so days but they were stil rideable. Only reason I stopped riding them was because I got new skis for really cheap. If I didn't need the bindings off them I'd still have them for a secondary pair.
Having had tropic thunders and Stingers I would say that the HG are a tiny bit more durable. The jskis were pretty rough after like 5 days of skiing, had a ton of edge cracks etc. After about 20 days on the HG's the sidewall separated from the base and the edge on both sides of both skis. Also the edges on the tips started to come off and there were a decent amount of edge cracks. Not sure about HG's warranty but if your looking for a ski with solid warranty I'd go Jskis, but if your looking for something that'll last longer I'd say HG. That said, I would say you should look at ON3P for out of this world durability. Ive had a pair of filthy riches for 2 winter seasons and 2 summer seasons of riding and just at the end of this season they got their first bad edge separation. Let me know if you have any questions!
Shoey-Ski
Active member
My friend has the hg stingers and loves them, he's wridden k2s Nordics, and klints, and they trump all of them , My other bud has J ski whip it's, they haven't been ridden a lot and the top sheets already have tons of chips, I also haven't heard much good about the top sheets ( i guess they are very prone to chipping all over) , but I hear Jason has an amazing warentee. If it were me I would go on3p you would have to look really hard for a bad review about the durability of on3ps.
Swandog7
Active member
Imo out of those 2 go HG. I wouldn't limit yourself to 2 brands out of all of em. Id check out Moment, ON3P, HG, or even Icelantic. All have good durability, and depending on well YOU maintain them as far as waxing, detuning your edges, filling chips etc, they will last even longer. If your skis last like 10 days it is most likely because you didnt do something, not the ski brand.
hot.pocket
Active member
13687267:Charles. said:
This is pretty common for basically every ski company out there. Your warranty is void for rail damage, any other warranty issues are still valid.
hot.pocket
Active member
13687293:Charles. said:
I want to say iggyskier wrote up a good explanation of this, which went something along the lines of your car isn't warrantied for you driving it into a wall just like your skis aren't warrantied against you slamming them into metal.
13687300:hot.pocket said:
This is not really a good example. If a company sells a terrain park ski, it should stand behind the product when the ski is used in a terrain park. This makes sense.
The comparison that you meant to make: A company which sells a pickup truck with an off-road package, ought to stand behind the equipment when you take it off a road. The warranty is the main difference between HG Skis and J Skis (and pretty much every other company).
hot.pocket
Active member
13687293:Charles. said:
13687312:caked. said:
Here's iggyskier's response from the thread about Revisions rail damage warranty. It's a very well thought out, although long, explanation as to why more companies don't do a rail damage warranty.
Quoting iggyskier (ON3P employee):
"Since ON3P is obviously getting thrown into the mix here, I figure I would explain the way we deal with edge issues. Obviously I respect what Revision is doing here. Given the context of this thread, I'm sure we'll come off sort of as the bad guy here, but our approach is a bit different. Skis are a tool with a life span, and rail damage is part of the game. Rail damage is not a manufacturing defect. It isn't an issue at the factory. It is a metal edge hitting a metal bar over and over and there is so much that can be built into the skis to prevent that. We spend a ton of extra money and time putting edges and bases in our skis that are the thickest you can get, but the reality is that they are a life extender, not a end-all to prevent skis from getting edge cracks. Not expecting edge cracks is just not realistic. If you are going to hit rails all day, especially if you don't know how to prep and maintain your skis, you're gonna have a bad time, period. Take care of your skis and they will last. We view our warranty like that of a car. Delamming tip & tail? Probably our fault. Replace the ski. Crashed your car repeatedly into a wall? There is nothing we can do to prevent the damage from that.
If you hit a rail without detuning your edges correctly, or even just land on a rail incorrectly, they can crack first day. Again, we are taking about a little piece of metal impacting a big piece of metal with thousands of lbs of force. This year, we've even minorly detuning the FR underfoot at the factory because it seems so few people know how to prep their skis for rails.
Our approach to this, while I suppose we have done a poor job promoting it (which will change when our new website/warranty page drops) basically says we won't warranty for rail damage (because, it is impact damage, nothing to do with the ski construction or materials), but any damage you want to send our way, we will fix at no charge and return the skis to you. We're not the only people who operate this way - I believe Icelantic does this as well. If you edge pulls out, send them here, we will replace the edge, clean up the ski, and send them back to you with a fresh set of edges in there. We are happy to provide that service free of charge, but I personally believe replacing skis outright due to edge damage, especially because the vast majority of severe damage we see is from 1) no detune 2) no swapping skis 3) no sliding both ways and 4) no maintainance of your skis, isn't a fair request of ski manufacturers.
I would say 90+% of the time we see really bad edge pull outs, the ski have several shared characteristics. 1) All the damage is on just one edge, or at worst, one side. The vast majority of the time, all the damage is on one single edge and the other 3 edges often don't even have a crack. 2) The edges still, even after sliding a lot of rails, aren't detuned properly. 3) Crack was noticed, began to get worse, and ski kept being used instead of taking 30 minutes and doing a bit of maintenance to protect your investment.
If you want your edges to last...
1) Swap your left and right skis.
2) Learn to slide both ways.
3) Actually detune your skis. Everyone says they do, but I would say maybe 1/4 do it correctly.
4) If you see cracks, deal with them. Once a crack forms, water is getting in the ski. Water = Satan 666. Once water is getting in your ski, the clock is ticking until it falls apart.
Obviously in our case, it sucks to have to send your skis back to get repaired. It sucks here, too. We're busy building skis, so time is scarce. But we'd rather see the skis in person, ensure they are just normal rail damage, and fix them right with the correct base/edges and our factory tune than have you guys have to pay out the ass at a shop.
Hat's off to Revision if they feel comfortable doing it. Obviously, as everyone discussed here, there is risk involved and that is just business. From that standpoint, pretty simple equation. If profit from sales increase > cost of replacing skis, then obviously a great move. That said, in ON3P's case, I don't think it respects the work/cost/effort that goes into our skis. We're not some factory in China who can pump out skis for a few hundred dollars and make a living. I can promise you that there isn't a lot of money in running your own ski factory, building quality skis with quality materials. A huge amount of effort goes into every pair, so I can tell you there is certainly frustration on our end to see people destroy skis by killing one edge, then bitching us out, sending the skis in where we find that the ski has 3 sharp, completely intact edges and 1 blow out edge. Some of that is a failure on education on our part, most likely. We've talked about doing a how to keep your park skis alive piece for awhile, but just haven't had the time. Definitely something I will try to get out this year.
That vast majority of our team skis on 2 pairs of park skis per season. That is a lot of days on a lot of rails by guys who aren't small and ski hard, so we know our product can last without edge issues if the skis are prepped, maintained, and skied properly. That same stuff would go for all skis out there.
Construction wise, I don't think replacing skis for edge damage is a realistic reflection of where the ski construction is right now. As Logan and Nellyyy talked about a bit below, the impact tech just isn't there yet. We use the thickest edge, stronger base, and strongest sidewalls we can. Eventually, you will still wear your edges down though.
There is a particular design that had the potential to deal with edge issues that we were considering a few years ago, but once we found out it was patented by another brand we bailed. I am not sure when it runs out, but once it does there will be some interesting possibilities to explore. Going to be awhile though...
We're testing a bunch of different materials right now, even from some giant companies like Dupont, but until ski manufacturers can figure out how to maintain a carvable edge that can still take metal-to-metal impacts thousands of times under enormous force, your best bet it to get solid skis, prep them right, ski them right, and maintain them if they need work.
Our production manager (who has been here 4 years) is still skiing park on the pair of 10/11 Jeronimos he got for his internship. If they have an edge crack, he cleans it up, dries it out, drops a bit of epoxy in there to seal it up, clamps it overnight, scraps it off, keeps skiing. They easily have 120+ park days on them and still have all their edge.
The honest truth is that if you can't get edges to last more than a month, on ANY SKI, it is likely you, not the ski.
Here is one other consideration here. You can offer a 1 year, with edge damage covered, or you could offer a 2-3 year, with no edge damage covered. A pair ski with a 3-year warranty that covered edge damage would see a warranty rate of 100%. That just isn't realistic, especially for US-based manufacturers who are spending 2x the cost of building skis in China/Europe, but still charging in the same ballpark as most foreign built skis (Revision being the obviously except on price here, which I can tell you domestically no one actually building their own skis - Moment, Praxis, Folsom, ON3P, etc - could even come close to).
I know we are increasing our warranty this year, but it covers the things that we screw up, not what you screw up. That is the separation that I don't think is really understood by customers. It isn't that we want to screw you over, take your money, and deal with you hating us vocally in the forums in the next decade. It is that your edge cracks are not our fault, just like base damage or topsheet chipping isn't our fault. That is skiing.
Here is the other bit of insight here. ON3P receives warranty claims of less than 1% of the skis we build. Most of that 1% is edge related and in the conditions describe above. So, give the volume, we could afford to warranty the skis that we feel are user-damaged and not a real warranty claim. That said, how do you draw the right line? I want to treat every customer the same, and the other way to do that is with a policy that has a defined line. If I warranty the kid with 3" of edge missing, but not 2.5", that is a pretty tough place to be. Also, it becomes a very slippery slope going forward.
Looking at it as a brand, as much as we would love to stoke out the few customer who have bad rail damage, that just isn't fair to the guys in here who bust their ass for shit pay building the best skis we can. I think our approach respects the hard work all our employees puts in so you guys have an option to buy skis made by people you know, made in the USA, and made right.
So, there is a novel. I hope that offers some insider insight into how we view this issue, because trust us, it is one of the most discussed issues at our factory. We want you to be on your skis, we'll fix them free of charge, and do everything else we can, within reason, to make you happy. But we have to respect our work, our cost, and our brand and this is how we feel we should do it. Different strokes for different folks, and obviously Revision feels differently. We're very different brands in what we do (manufacturer vs marketer) so I think we have a pretty unique prospective given we build the product we sell."
13687267:Charles. said:
That's true with most companies... I was simply stating that if your skis delam jskis will most likely help you out. For instance, my jskis fell apart pretty quick. I emailed jlev because I was upset, so he gave me a 20% discount on a new pair. They fell apart from rails but even then he still helped
hot.pocket
Active member
13687373:Session said:
HG. On the real I went from literally breaking every ski I rode in almost a couple weeks. It was crazy. I got the tallt x hg stinger last feb. and used the same pair until middle of this winter. Skiing park, urban shit and skiing all summer and not even an edge crack. That is pretty insane for me. If your considering HG I'd say send it. That's my 2$.
Pretty sure this thread is comparing skis made in the same factory (Utopie) with the same edges (2.5 x 2.5), sidewalls (UHWM), and bases (4001 1.8mm), so you should see comparable durability between the two. I'd go with the brand & ski you are most stoked on.
Skates_skis
Member
13687548:iggyskier said:
I thought Jason made J skis in his own factory in Vermont or somewhere near that? Could you please enlighten me I am curious.
13687627:fruitsnacker69 said:
The factory is called Utopie and is located in Quebec -http://www.utopiesnow.com/.
It's listed on Jskis's website -https://jskis.com/pages/about
Utopie does a number of different brands. Jskis, HG, Stanton, RMU was getting a lot of skis built there, though I know there was talk of them moving to a joint factory getting set up by Meier in Denver. I believe Worth was there before they stopped selling skis (they started at Praxis). I was told Utopie was building Sims Snowboards, too, but all the latest stuff I've seen from them show them being built by Never Summer in Denver.
You can even see the same machines building both Jskis & HG in the video above.
So, as I said above, both are made with great materials - go with the brand you are more stoked on.
BLACKLIVESMATTER
Member
13687517:KeeganKil said:
Here's your answer kids
13687770:iggyskier said:The factory is called Utopie and is located in Quebec -http://www.utopiesnow.com/.
It's listed on Jskis's website -https://jskis.com/pages/about
Utopie does a number of different brands. Jskis, HG, Stanton, RMU was getting a lot of skis built there, though I know there was talk of them moving to a joint factory getting set up by Meier in Denver. I believe Worth was there before they stopped selling skis (they started at Praxis). I was told Utopie was building Sims Snowboards, too, but all the latest stuff I've seen from them show them being built by Never Summer in Denver.
You can even see the same machines building both Jskis & HG in the video above.
So, as I said above, both are made with great materials - go with the brand you are more stoked on.
Is this ON3P and Moment's way of marketing? Getting into a thread that had literally nothing to do with them? Sounds like someone is bit jealous they're not being considered for purchase here...
Let's get back on topic here (HG Skis vs. J Skis):
If in fact HG Skis and J Skis are made in the same factory, then the reason to choose HG Skis is the warranty.
13687548:iggyskier said:
13687627:fruitsnacker69 said:
13687770:iggyskier said:
13687870:caked. said:
Dear Caked - AKA HG Skis, CGaeta, etc.
First off, if you have an issue with my post, it was not my intention for it to be view as such. I was in no way talking down on your brand or your quality. My only two posts in here state that you use quality materials and should have good durability.
That said, if you guys have a problem with my post, you can come right out and say it, rather than using an alias. Or better yet, give me a call at the ON3P factory to discuss. Our number is easy to get.
1) Did I mention ON3P, Moment, or push for anyone to buy other skis once?
No.
2) Did I take any side in the HG vs Jskis debate?
No.
Even if ON3P hadn't been mentioned in this thread multiple times, including statements I've made in the past, a thread title not containing ON3P doesn't preclude me from posting in a thread about ski durability.
What was the goal of my post? To educate people with knowledge I have and that others don't. I can't see any way being honest and open about the factory that builds your skis would be viewed as negative to your brand.
In the simplest terms, this thread asked:
Is ski A or ski B more durable?
Several posts followed that said ski A is more durable. Others said ski B.
As a member of this community who values transparency and an educated community, it is in no way out of line to post that these skis are, in fact, made in the same factory with the same quality materials. The nature of the post itself is matter-of-fact.
If being honest with other members of Newschoolers is going to be construed as malicious and jealous, particularly when the post was supportive about the materials used by two other indie brands, then I don't know what to say.
As I said above, now the third time in this thread, both ski companies should have comparable durability because they are made in the same factory with the same base, edge, and sidewalls (and if that is incorrect, by all means, please correct me).
That isn't an endorsement of either brand, or a suggestion to look at another brand.
It is a statement of fact. One that, if I had started the thread, I would like to know. If that isn't apparent in the post, then my apologies.
hot.pocket
Active member
13687870:caked. said:
I fail to see how Moment was marketed at all in this thread, seeing as how not a single model is even mentioned in here, and ON3P is only heavily present in this thread because iggyskier wrote up a very well worded novel on why more companies don't have a rail damage warranty.
Neither myself or iggyskier pushed Moment or ON3P in this thread at all, but instead tried to convey why more companies don't adopt the rail damage warranty. We're members of this community just the same as you are, we came into this thread because we like contributing to the community.
Information was provided by people of the industry to help educate the rest of the community as to why companies make certain decisions without either company pushing their products. ON3P even went on to say that both companies (HG AND J SKIS) build skis with great materials and that the customer should choose whichever one they are more stoked on (BETWEEN HG AND J SKIS).
Swandog7
Active member
13687870:caked. said:
Not sure if you are aiming at Iggyskier or not, but I stand behind Moment and Icelantic, both of which I currently own. I think Ive had the perfect showing of durability skiing at Hyland Hills, MN. Me and some friends probably get more rail hits per hour than anywhere else in the world thanks to a tow rope. Ive seen brands get shredded after like 20 days from rails, and others last a lot longer. Here's what Ive seen the last 2 years of 75+ days a year of rails
Moment: first edge crack after about 95 days, edge out after about 110. Moderate chipping, bases are in decent shape
Icelandic: first edge crack at about 55 days, no edge out as of yet. Lots of chipping, bases are fucking tanks
Both of those companies is my personal data, and what i currently own ^
ON3P: Topsheets seem good, bases are tanks, edges are lasted my friend like 50 days, no edge rip yet
K2: Pretty average, last my friend a pair about a season, top sheets are really good, bases are eh, like 4 inches of edge gone and a few cracks every season
Faction: really great skis while they last, I think they use 2x2 edges but not positive. delam halfway through the season, edge cracks too
Thats all my friends skis, things that I've noticed and sorta kept track of for personal knowledge
Personally Ive never liked a company more than Moment, specifically the Vice. Im riding my Icelantics basically until they die, and probably won't buy a new pair because I don't need 2 pairs of park skis (da nollie) but personally they have the best flex. I'm considering investing in a pair of Surface Outsiders for the hell of it, cheap, powder capable while I can still fuck around. I love my Moment Vice and kinda see the Outsider as a more extreme platform of the Vice. Ive never ridden Jskis or HG, but both seem pretty solid, HG interests me in particular. There is zero reason to explore only 2 companies, I thought Id chime in to make sure OP sees everything he should
CGaeta
Member
13687918:iggyskier said:
This comment was not made by me. But to clear the air here our skis and J skis are currently made in the same factory. Thank you for noting they are made with quality material. on3p, moment, revision and many more all make great skis and its dope their is so many smaller rider owned companies coming up all brining something different to the table.