Israel and Why You're Wrong About It

i got through the first 3 paragraphs and wanted to hammer my nose to the back of my skull with my keyboard.

Jesus that was fucking amateur hour.
 
nice to pull the emotion card.

idk, obviously there is a lot of shit going on down there, but if i were american, i would try to see whether or not i am at least partially responsible for all those american flags burned. and try to better this fucking image.

why arent they burning canadian flags, german, UK flags in the same extent?

and you seem a bad fit to talk about isreal because youre biased in every way. in your worldview muslims are inferior, terrorists who do nothing else but threaten isrealis and burn american flags.

there are neo-nazi demonstrations in germany. filmed from the right standpoint and documentend in the right way, people would say that germany is still full of nazis. but when the camera turns, you see a anti-nazi demo right accross the street. i am not saying that in those muslim countries its similar when such riots happen, but we all have to agree that we get our information from relatively biased and isolated sources. some correspondent hiding in the only 5-star hotel of the country and looking of his balcony twice a day after a morning jacuzzi session and his 10-course dinner?

the truth is never so easy. and showing americans that muslims are burning american flags is a very easy way to manipulate public opinions, NO MATTER what else is going on in this country. on your goddamn map is also india and sri lanka and bangladesh, england, netherlands, right? give me a goddamn break. show me where "hundreds of thousands" of people burn an american flag in england or the netherlands.

open your eyes and see that the world isnt so black and white as you want.
 
My taxes don't pay for bombs to just sit in storage!

Just kidding, I didn't read OP's post. But as a medically retired Jewish-American United States Marine, I can pretty much assume it wasn't going to persuade my thoughts.
 
when israel stops allowing new settlements on land the ENTIRE REST OF THE WORLD agrees should be set aside for a future palestinian state, i will believe they are serious about peace. until then??? yeah, not so much
 
please tell me more about how killing and relocating an innocent group of people and reducing their land to 2 small tiny areas is right. the land that was once called palestine is a fucking theme park for the major religions in the world. the jews just have the money to have it right now and call it Israel. the shit they did to the palestinians is a dick move, say whatever you want to try to justify it.

look at it this way. you dont just go into somebody's house with a bunch of guns and tell them they have 15 minutes to grab their things and get the fuck out because thats a dick move and everybody agrees with that. what the fuck makes it any different for israel different?

Regardless, this shit happens all the time and has for may years during the human existence and as horrible as it sounds we shouldn't be surprised that it is still happening today. there are assholes with money all over the world. and to be clear im not calling all jews assholes with money, that would be racist. I'm calling the guys who use their money to depopulate areas for financial gain that happened to be jewish assholes.

 
"Israel was not created in order to disappear - Israel will endure and flourish. It is the child of hope and the home of the brave. It can neither be broken by adversity nor demoralized by success. It carries the shield of democracy and it honors the sword of freedom." - JFK
 
Well the Israelis ancestors were there before the palestinians so you could say that they are just reclaiming it. Also, its not like muslims and palestinians alike are not allowed to live in the country of Israel. In reality, thousands of them do and this in areas outside of the west bank and gaza strip. If you were to ever go there than you'd see that the country is actually very diverse, but of course some people wont recognize this because their assumptions are inaccurate.
 
Racist. Like literally, I'm not being hyperbolic, you are being racist right here. You just said one group of people is better than other groups of people. Racist.
 
do you really give shit about this 2000 year old claim? our world would go down the shitter if we gave back every single land that was "owned" by another tribe 2000 years back. you also havent really touched by native americans argument, right? how about white people withdraw completely from north/south america? if you dont agree with that than youre a hypocritic mofo.

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and on this whole "claim" thing, dude, get your facts straight, there are HUGE discussion about giving back jewish property in austria and germany that was taken away from them during/before WWII.

the point is that the current owners bought it legally during an auction or inherited it from their parents/grandparents.

"normal" judicial systems (non-case law in this case, not really trying to argue which is better) tell me that i have a right to own this thing, when i have it bought legally/have held it legally for a certain period of time (depending on the subject around 30 years). the idea is that if i own something for 30 years, and nobody has claimed that it was stolen from him or that i own it on other illegal grounds, ITS MINE (they usually get some type of money back, or someone negotiates another deal).

i know you have good intentions and shit, but its logically flawed to run around and literally destroy legal security left and right, just because "some" people, who you cannot even proof that they are offspring of the people who lived there 2000 years ago. the only thing that unites them right now is religion, not blood. so if i convert to judaism, i should get a free house down there?

your "they deserve it"-pov is ok and i agree that "they" suffered a lot, not only in WWII, but you do not make it right by doing more wrong.

the people in palestina lived there for hundreds of years (maybe they took it from someone else before, who knows), their fathers, their grandfathers lived there. they had their houses, they had THEIR sacred places. but they are muslim, also known as people of second class.

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i really dont get how you can run around and defend this 2000 year old claim. i am austrian. after WWI, the allies forced "us" (patriotic, huh?) to agree to a contract where "we" lost dozens of areas in hungary and former jugoslavia and south tirol among others. on behalf of the austrian people, i demand that these countries come back home.

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oh wait, i get a call from my hungarian friend. apparently, he demands hungary back because austria occupied it in the late middle ages. so hungarians were there before austrians. pretty legit. so everything is ok? right? maybe we have to do some DNA tests whether or not current hungarians' ancestors were there back then, but not too big of an issue.

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oh... hang on a sec... i just got a call from my ancient roman friend. THEY, after a little back and forth with the dacians owned hungary 2000 years back. obviously the dacians could have a voice in this conversation too. who should we resettle there?

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nevermind, just got a neanderthal smoke signal. pretty tough to read and shit, but apparently THEY were in hungary before all cro-magnons.

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what?....oh comon, not this shit

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i am obviously not 100% serious, but i wanted to show you how dumb it is to go back in time such hilariously long times and find someone "who was there first" and derivate some sort of claim from that. i, as a landowner, have to know that i will own this next year too. that noone will come in and take it away. i bought it legally, so i should be able to keep it as long as i wish.
 
what about if we all just share our land with eachother and live happily together ?

i know this sounds pretty mad but it's so crazy it might just work ....
 
The muslims wont negotiate with that kind of mentality. Well, the actually don't negotiate at all really. Its either there way or the highway (aka through riots and attack US embassies)
 
yeah and the jewish people who lived there were the ones who converted to christianity, and then islam when that came around so they really aren't reclaiming anything and your argument is really invalid. they are the same fucking people they just live their lives by different books. this is a really ridiculous conflict if you really think about how they are essentially fighting over ancient texts that were originally written on fucking animal skins by people who lived 5000 years ago or whenever the text you worship was supposedly written.

fyi my palestinian grandpa and his whole family was kicked out of his house in '48 by your "defense forces" so you and your JFK quote can fuck off.
 
I feel that you may be somewhat biased in the situation considering it was you grandfather who told you the story

u mad though
 
dude i feel you, i really agree, and i can understand where your grandparents side of the family is coming from. except my entire family was not only kicked out of their homes, but slaughtered in between '39-45. slaughtered. not simply told to move, but marginalized, separated, beat, gassed, shot, and dumped into a mass grave by a bulldozer. one grandma and one grandpa from either side. its strange to have a family tree that just stops at a certain point. i'm not trying to compare sob stories, but its easy as a modern jew to feel hatred for yourself as a person in this world. there are plenty of islamic nations, yet there is only one state for jews. with the patterns of history mostly repetitive, do you not think that we as jews deserve a state as well? not that i want it to be at the expense of a palestinian state - in fact i dont understand why two peoples with so much shared history and heritage cant agree on a fucking thing. its pretty absurd. i dont think the argument here is the legitimacy of a jewish state in the land of israel, cause the way the british mandate/ league of nations handled that shit was colonial and fucked up. but look, israel is here now, theres both jews and palestinians, who, like it or not, are going to have to coexist. arguing over biblical history doesnt get anyone anywhere. like felihination's argument, you cant argue morally that the jews should leave israel while white people can remain in north america. this is the modern state of affairs, and needs to rectified proactively rather than argued on a tenuous historical basis. moreover, i believe that jews need a state - while the political climate is not europe in the '30s, it would not be surprising to see international hostility to the jewish religion and people again, like has happened so many times in our collective past. think for a second, a weak and passive (liberal, left-leaning) israel will simply get destroyed by its neighbors. its surrounded by millions of people and state governments who publicly believe it shouldnt exist at all. sad as it is, sometimes offense is the best defense. another thing towards felihinations post is that judaism is not an evangelical religion like christianity or buddhism. jews are jews because they are born jews, so we are in fact a people with shared blood relations. jews dont seek to convert others, we are a select few, united by both blood and religion. anyways i personally dont feel hatred on either side of the spectrum, i think israeli settlement builders are evil along with hamas. its the ideologues on both sides that drag down the whole debate. i mean if the bible is correct, palestinians and jews have coexisted for millenia under intense hardship, ie roman rule, etc, so why cant we just figure shit out and be peaceful in modern times?
 
Homeless and poor people have been historically shit on too. Lets give them social services... O wait I doubt you are down for that
 
first off, the israel situation is completely unrelated to the holocaust and should never be referred to when speaking about this situation. It was one of the most disturbing events in history, but remember the Germans committed this not the Palestinians. I find it disturbing that many jews take the stance of "oh since we were tortured we can get away with torturing others." This is so incredibly fucked up and is what makes many people disagree with the israeli occupation of Palestine. As a religious group of people, being tortured should make you never want to inflict that pain onto other people, not pay it forward. And if you were to torture somebody else it should be the germans who fucked the jews, not the innocent palestinian people that had nothing to do with that conflict.

Lastly, its not that the jews don't deserve a state, its that no single religious organization should deserve a state. Separation of church and state is a beautiful thing and was how the country was run before. That's why Palestine was so sick. Jews, Christians, and Muslims were all coexisting with each other with no problems beforehand.
 
this thread is still alive?

perhaps eventually Israel will realize that ceding the gaza strip and west bank to create a Palestinian state is in their best interest and the Palestinians will agree to stop shooting missiles into Israel in exchange for the land to create their state, and Israel will agree to stop responding to the Palestinian attacks with bombs paid for by the United States and dropped from planes paid for by the United States.

Or not, whatever
 
keep in my mind israel was created because of the holocaust, so yes, this issues are quite related. also i don't think the reality of 19th century palestine was quite as rosy as you seem to picture in your head - it was no moorish sevilla. fact of the matter is, single religious organizations do control states - ie saudia arabia, jordan, lebanon - israel's neighbours. moreover ask any jew and it is more than a religion, it is shared cultural heritage, shared genetic traits - what some would i call a race but i prefer not to use that language. i never advocated pay it forward, the stance that we were tortured and can get away with torturing others is nobody's motivation, israel is not perpetrating a genocide (not saying they don't do fucked up shit... but genocide is different than boundary conflict) but yeah i don't know how you interpreted that israel is torturing palestinians because of the holocaust in my comment.. because that is plainly untrue. all i'm trying to say is really we should stop using the historical argument. my point with the holocaust to show that bad shit has happened to both palestinians and jews, so why not try and work together to overcome. look, it is silly and unproductive to debate the legitimacy of israel, or which nation is more entitled to that land. the fact is, there are many jews and palestinians who were born and raised in the land of israel, and both are right to call it their home.... the sectarian violence and disagreement is frankly disgusting on both sides. both jews and palestinians are equally at fault for outrageous and sick violent actions, and yes both jews and palestinian individuals have been responsible for real goodwill and positive change. i am a jew, i am a supporter of israel but i am not a hater of palestinians. i understand you are of palestinian heritage but please try and understand both sides of the argument before you post with clear bias and vitriol.
 
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