Israel and Why You're Wrong About It

BravoWhiskey5280

Active member
Let me first start off by saying that those who have a less than favorable view on the country of Israel are completely wrong and are in need of a history lesson because if you had one, than you'd have different opinion. Heres some what of a toned down lay out on the history of Israel and the Jewish people. The Jewish people were the first to settle in the region of present day Israel?Jerusalem in what is said to be sometime during the early 2nd millennium BCE. The official, first kingdom of Israel was established around the 10 century BCE and that kingdom resided over the region for the next four hundred years. So in terms of religious significance, Jerusalem has been sacred to Judaism for roughly 3000 years, to Christianity for around 2000 years, and to Islam for approximately 1400 years. So if you want to go off of who was there first, than the Jews have it in the bag by a long shot.
The only reason Jerusalem is significant to the muslims is primarily due to Muhammad's Night of Ascension. He was believed to have been miraculously transported from Mecca to Jerusalem and then ascended into heaven from there. This significant event is marked by the third holiest site in the world for Islam and that would be the Dome of the Rock. The thing is though, the Israeli government acknowledges this site and respects it presences in the city of Jerusalem. Each and every single Muslim in this world should respect the hell out of Israel for allowing this Mosques presences on their soil because they could very well blow it up to shit if they very well wanted to. This just goes to show how Israel has tried on countless occasions to create a peaceful coexistence with the Arabs in the region however the Arabs wont have any of it what so ever. The 2000 Camp David Summit is a classical example of the Arabs shooting down any negotiations to create coexistence. Israeli PM Ehud Barak offered a plan that called for an independent Palestinian State yet lone and behold Yasser Arafat rejected it. See this is the common theme over there. A deal is proposed to create separate independent states and calls for them to peacefully coexist and the Muslims almost never accept. So the biggest mistake of the 20 ce. was when the Arab League and Arab Higher Committee of Palestine didn't accept the terms of the Plan of Partition with Economic Union resolution; called for an independent Jewish state, independent Arab state, and the City of Jerusalem as a mutual state in 1947. And once again, the Israeli authority accepted the resolution and the Arabs did not.
The fact of the matter is that the majority of Islamic states do not want Judaism, or any other religion for that matter, to even exists. If they did than 50% of the 1.3 million Jews that migrated to Israel between 1948-1958 wouldn't of had to move because believe or not, but the eastern european Jews that took refuge there as a result of the holocaust only represented half of the migrants. The other migrants were Jew refugees from Arab lands whom faced persecution and expulsion from the Islamic authorities of these lands simply because of the fact that they were not Arab.
If that is not enough, than know that in 1977 Egyptian president Anwar El Sadat became the first Arab head of state to recognize Israel as a state and eventually lead to the signing of the Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty in 1979. The Israelis, being the peace seeking individuals they are, showed Egypt a huge amount of gratitude for this by withdrawing its control of the Sinai Peninsula. It is impotent to note that the only reason the deemed necessary to control in the first place was because of the numerous threats from Arab officials that the would shut it down, which in turn would completely shut off Israel's source for water. Of course there was a group of muslims, known as the Palestinian Liberation Organization, that did not agree with the Egyptian Presidents peace treaty, so they in turn attacked the Lebanese-Israeli border in an event known as the Coastal Road Massacre where 38 Israeli civilians were killed in a guerilla raid. Of course this unofficially voided the Egyptian-Israeli Peace Treaty because of the fact that there were many Egyptian officials that considered the PLO as one Egypt's allies. This led to conflict for much of the 80's and into the early 90's until the Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace in 1994 was signed as a result of a newly elected Israeli PM who called for a compromise with the Arab neighbors. Commonly, this treaty was only effective for a small amount of time as Israel was struck by dozens of Palestinian suicide bombings.
Nothing much has changed since despite the on going attempts by Israeli diplomats to create coexistence despite the ever increasing attacks by primarily Hamas and Hezbollah terrorist acts, thought to be funded by the PLO and other Arab States like Syria.
Now many of you may think that my post may be way too dramatic in length, but it is necessary to understand this understand this history in order to properly gauge the situation going on over there. Many of you think that all of this is Israel's fault when it is quite the opposite. It is the Arabs lack of commitment and extreme ideology that has fueled this conflict. If the Arab community could make a commitment towards a peaceful coexistence than we would indeed see peace in that region because the Israeli's are 100% committed and have been since day number one. Making this a reality though is seemingly becoming impossible and at some point, Israel and the modernized western countries of the world will have to consider other options when it comes to creating this co-existence. Now I say that the modernized countries of the world must come together on this because we will not only be fighting for co-existence among the Arabs and Israeli's, but the co-existence of the Arabs and the REST OF THE WORLD because that most certainly does not exist as of right now. Our world is inevitably globalizing and as global citizens, it is our duty to get the rest of the world (aka Arab Nations) up to date because if we don't, than we will never be able to reap the substantial benefits that globalized community can offer.
Lastly, I personally value Israel over these Arab Nations from which receive foreign aid from us because of the fact that Israel, is the one of the few select nations in that region that truly follow the rules a nation must abide by in order to receive foreign aid as stated by the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 (signed by JFK). The reason as to why I find it unconstitutional to be giving these Arab states aid is because the act says that no assistance will be provided to a government which "engages in a constant pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights, including torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment, prolonged detention without charges, causing the disappearance of persons by the abduction and clandestine detention of those persons, or other flagrant denial of the right to life, liberty, and the security of person, unless such assistance will directly benefit the needy people in such country." Now correct if Im wrong, but I think that one could logically consider the burning of our embassy's and the murder of our diplomats a direct violation to this act. so the question is, why is the Obama administration not realizing this? Well its because his foreign policy is soft and sympathetic, which is really ironic considering how these protestors hat
 
Where's that ban button... it should be right here...

Is it over there? No?

Well, where the fuck is it?!

Are you saying we can't ban this fucker just because we can't find the damn button?!

GAAAAAAAHJHJJJJJAJAJJAJAdhdsfdfshs
 
so this whole thing about "being here first". i get that. but what about native americans? they called northern and south america their home, treated the environment with respect and had thousands of sacred places.

how about giving them back their land? their claim isnt 2000 years old like the jews claim on what we call isreal today.

 
no matter if isreal is "less sacred" to muslims or not. the people that lived there lived a pretty legit life on THEIR soil for hundreds of years.

its just not fair to send people off while explaining that 2000 years back someone else owned it.
 
Take an anthro. course. Most of them really exploited the environment in an unsustainable way. And I went to a very liberal university to have learned that.

But I agree with you regardless.
 
Here are some more reasons as to why the liberals in this country should have favorable opinions on Israel.
1. The Bank of Israel was ranked first among central banks for its efficient functioning, up from the 8th place in 2009.
2. Israel is the leading country in the development of solar-energy.
3. Israel is the global leader in water conservation and geothermal
4. Israel has one of the lowest external debts in the developed world, and is a net lender in terms of net external debt (the total value of assets vs. liabilities in debt instruments owed abroad), which as of 2011 stood at a surplus of US$58.7 billion.
5. Over 90% of Israeli homes use solar energy for hot water, the highest per capita in the world.
6. Israel has led the world in stem-cell research papers per capita since 2000.
7. Israel has a modern electric car infrastructure involving a countrywide network of recharging stations to facilitate the charging and exchange of car batteries.
Not what you thought it was huh? Its amazing what a little research will do.
 
in relation to what we do now, i think they were pretty eco-friendly. obviously not all of them were bear-hugging, tree-fucking hippies like in the movies.
 
i good friend of mine spent over half a year in isreal. obviously, isreal is like a european country in the cities, but has also a lot of different aspects otherwise.

the hardcore, orthodox jews have a shitton of influence and they do not act peacefully all the time. in fact, most regular isrealis hate the way they influence politics.

isreal is, de facto, not a judaist state, but they fail to present that fact to the world and especially to arabs. but with building walls and buying tanks, you can solve SOOOOO many issues, right?

the real problem is not now, the real issue was the creation of this state alltogether and it fucks the middle east royally in the ass, if i may say this so directly.
 
The reason why America supports Israel is because the religious right, (read, Christian and Evangelicals) believes that for the rapture to be met (second coming of Jesus, believers go to heaven, everyone else gets apocalypse), a specific set of conditions foretold in prophecies must be met. One of those, a big one at that too, is that Israel must be in the hands of the Jews. Shit starts to make much more sense after you realize this tidbit and combine it with the knowledge that 46% of the country prefers creationism over evolution.
 
Anyone who takes the bible that literaly is fing dumb and i would disagree with your statement exept i just remembered that we live in America.
 
Hey, Im just explaining the obvious. And we Americans are better than Arabs because we have obviously have learned to co-exist with people who are different than us for the most part. Of course there are the exceptions, but at least we are not fighting racially fueled wars anymore. We were doing this kind of stupid shit 152 years ago, Id say we've made some progress wouldn't you?
This is all irrelevant though, my main argument as to why Israel should be in the hands of the Jews is because THEY DONT HAVE ANYWHERE ELSE TO FUCKING GO! These poor fucking people have historically been treated like pieces of shit time and time again no matter where they go. If they deserve to have anything after what they've gone through in the past 100 years than a small dry desert should be the very least IMO.
Also, why do the Muslims deserve it more than the Jews. Like I said in my og post, Arabs only want control of Israel because their third most sacred site is there, of which the Israeli government lets an Muslim visit unless he is a known terrorists. I mean come on people, give the Jews a fucking break for crying out loud. But a side you're beliefs wether they be religious or not and show a little reverence to these people. If you could be reverent, something everyone in this world should be, than you'd understand the Israelis desire to live there because the Torah specifically states that the land is rightfully theirs. Now I know that we cant grant them the right to live there soley based off of this scripture, but it at least gives us a legit understanding as to why they want to live there, one of which you can not blame them for.
 
The one thing that bothers me in any patriot is the constant "we this, we that", especially when referring to history and things the person is talking definitely had no hands in on whatsoever.

Just say "the US" did this and that and every single one of your arguments becomes a bit more bearable. We we we is outplayed, outsigned and out there beyond the hills.
 
Seriously can i quote you on that. That is the single most ironic ignorant thing ive ever read. Seriously was that a joke i mean come on.
 
Wooo there man.. I may against creating legislation that favors it (specifically electric vehicles, Im all for stem cell research and see nothing wrong with it) because I don't believe that investing in these technologies will prolong our economic recover. However I do like the idea and am all for the conversion once the economy is recovered and in a stable condition like Israel's is. This is a whole other debate though and is pretty much irrelevant to the point Im trying to make.
Lastly, I wanted to mention that Im some what passion about this stuff (i.e. US relations with Israel) because I have had the fortunate experience of spending two weeks in the country. It is truly a fascinating experience to witness the most sacred sites to the three most dominant monotheistic religions this world has ever seen. You really get a sense at how all three of these religions are tied together in some way shape or form, Im not a religious guy and don't have any particular beliefs despite the fact, but the spiritual vibe you get from the place is almost overwhelming. I really started to question the ultimate question while I was there, is there a god/higher power/what you ever you want to call it. It led me to believe that if there is indeed a god, than his plan went south some where because I honestly think that his original plan was to not have three monotheistic religions that are tied together in someway. But to had have only one, of which every one was suppose to follow, but got disrupted because he underestimated human emotion. I know that Im talking out of my ass here, but thats really how I felt while I was there, even though I DO NOT...... Let me but it again out there for all you irreverent ass holes here on NS. I AM NOT RELIGIOUS. Just wanted to get it out there so no one gives me shit for it.
 
that was at least somewhat readable.

thanks for that. my friend who spend 6 months in isreal (and also a few weeks in palestina/lebanon, idk where exactly, but the next country/area, whatever the UN calls it, that is muslim) always says that he wants to get back and stay there longer, because you dont get all the right infos when youre on the isreali side.

obviously, they are the ones who appeal to us more because its pretty much a western country. but nothing is so easy as you make it seem. goddamnit in your first post isrealis looked like legitly gods and angels and whatever positive symbol you want. they have also done stuff wrong, there is no question about that. they also have made mistakes, like all of us, over the past few years and arent the peaceloving, whale-sucking hippies.

i just think that, yes they probably deserve a country (although who is "they"?), but they are not a race, they are just people who follow the same religion (as of now). to destabilize an entire region by doing that, i am not a big fan of it.

 
Another great thread by rockshead. Threads for the lulz. And godwilling the impending ban.
 
Yes, Im dead fucking serious. In terms of regarding ones civil rights, America is on a completely different level than MOST Arab Nations. This is a fact and there is 100% no fucking doubt about it. Call me a fucking idiot all you want, but when push comes to shove Im as right as right can be and will be until someone proves me otherwise. So do it........ If Im such an idiot than prove me wrong with some legitimate proof rather than posting an imbecilic remark...
 
Cause we are essentially debating, or at least I am, who the US should back with foreign aid right now. Israel or the Arab Nations.
Read this - The Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 (signed by JFK) states "that no assistance will be provided to a government which engages in a constant pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights, including torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment, prolonged detention without charges, causing the disappearance of persons by the abduction and clandestine detention of those persons, or other flagrant denial of the right to life, liberty, and the security of person, unless such assistance will directly benefit the needy people in such country." Now correct if Im wrong, but I think that one could logically consider the burning of our embassy's and the murder of our diplomats a direct violation to this act.
 
lol!!!

caterpillard9bulldozer.jpg
 
well one logical question is, if the US were as good as you think they are, they would give native americans their land back. because it clearly belongs to them and you think that isreal belongs to the jews so the arabs have to follow suit. but with this silent genocide in your backyard, i find it downright hilarious to say something like this. also dont even get me started on how the US essentially violated UN policies after 9/11.

and up until 50 years and its still an issue, blacks were not regarded as people of 1st class.

this has nothing to do with hating the US. guys, i am probably the biggest fan of the US in austria, but i am not blind to see that there are (like everywhere) problems. i wouldnt go around and say that "austrians are BETTER than arabs". saying stuff like that only fuels the fire.

be realistic in what you say. dont say that country X is only full of terrorists, or that religion Y is only followed by complete idiots or that the people of country Z are better than anything else. every country, every person makes mistakes, and to say otherwise is just naive and uselessly patriotic.

 
Im sorry but it is impossible for me to not have anger towards these prospers and what they are protesting when this happened only 4018 days ago. That may have been a long time ago for you, but it damn sure feels like it was yesterday to me.
565794.jpeg

I also can not ignore this map
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With hundreds of thousands of people doing this at each and everyone of those dots
565797.jpeg

 
IF its a were here first attitude then why are we meddling in all other country's business in the first place?

Massive, massive protests (towards Americans) in the muslim world over the last few days, and we decide to send more soldiers and battleships over there? Clearly when we arent wanted somewhere maybe we dont need to have an influence there?

The spread of so called democracy is noble in instilling human rights, etc, but there's a point where you just gotta let peeps figure out their own problems. Teddy Roosevelt was a great pres, but American Imperialism has certainly reached its extent. The UN, NATO, etc is there for a reason; we don't have to be running that shit when tax dollars have lots of places to be spent back here--education, healthcare, infrastructure, energy, are just a few systems that could use some appropriations and serious critical thinking.
 
Of corse he's a troll. there is no logical or reasonable explanation in the upbringing of this person's childhood that could have given him the views that he has today. Also who states in the title you're wrong about it a trooooollllloooolllllllllllll.
 
Hey I never said thats why the Jews deserve Israel, I was just mentioning that because it happens to be a fact and its relevancy is subjected to your own opinion. My argument as to why the Israelis deserve to be there is because they don't have anywhere else to fucking go. Research the five different Aliyah's, each one has to do with an influx of Jewish migrants coming to Israel due to a particular event in which the Jews were victims of extreme discrimination and persecution. The first Aliyah being when the Jews fled Eastern Europe in1880's because of the Russian pogroms.
Anyways, the problem with these "peeps" problems is that they are also inherently our (or to please Mike-Os ego, the United States) problems as demonstrated by the first picture in my last post. I really don't see how people can't understand this? Do you honestly think that if we just leave these people alone than they will in turn leave us alone? I hate to break it to you, but as perfect that may sound, it is sadly not the reality of the situation. The reality of the situation is that these extremist don't hate Americans because we get in their business, it is because they hate the modernized way of life we live here in America and what it represents in retrospect to what they believe (which for some of the most extreme is that if they kill themselves with the intent of killing others who do not share their same views, than they will go to heaven with some 40 virgins at their disposal. But na, thats not a crazy belief at all, huh?
I also find your quote about American Imperialism reaching its extent very ironic. You gotta wonder what caused that extent in the first place? I can only speculate that it probably has to do with the growing liberalism in this country which proposes using diplomacy as a way to solve Americas problem with terrorism. Ha, good luck with that. I don't want to crash the party, but I can already tell you whats going to happen with diplomacy, Jimmy fucking Carter, thats whats going to happen. I lastly wanted to add that the UN and NATO are funded by the United States tax dollars... It has to be funded through tax dollars because they are IGO's..
 
as soon as i saw you copied and pasted i decided i wouldn't waste my time. could be a well written and well thought out argument, but that almost always is a sign that OP's post is a massive steaming pile of horseshit

tl;dr cause i'm too busy going hard in the motherfucking paint BIAAATCH. sig that shit sucka
 
you can not say that Muslims are an accepting society, look at any Muslim country. in Saudi Arabia it is illegal to build a church of any other religion. in Egypt all the Christians killed, it is nearly impossible to live in most Muslim countries as an outsider. now look at many European countries like Denmark who let them in kindly and try and help them with their new life, but instead of being grateful they have 10 kids and live of the system, not only that but they bring in their friends friends and create a shithole.
 
Our focus is on Wahabist Islam and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, excluding other extremist factions and nations such as the interesting and intriguing Shiite movement and many others. The Arabian Peninsula is the original seedbed of Islamic extremism. Wherever one starts searching for the roots of present-day Muslim ultra-fundamentalism, the geographical trail eventually leads to Saudi Arabia and the intellectual/theological trail leads to the Wahabist ultra-fundamentalist interpretation of Islam. It is already a fact that certain sects would dearly love to oust the corrupt Saudi royals and replace them with a Wahabist-inspired regime. May Yamani, a Saudi political analyst with Islam Online says: "They are clamping down not only on the jihadis but also on the reformists. If the [the Saudi royal family doesn't] win the support of the middle class the educated class in the country there will be more and more people who will throw themselves into the arms of the jihadis. The royal family is losing control of the situation... They have no solution for this violence." The Saudi holy land is the seedbed of Islamic extremism. "The rise of Islam is perhaps the most amazing event in human history. Springing from a land and a people alike previously negligible, Islam spread within a century over half the earth, shattering great empires, overthrowing long established religions, remolding the souls of races, and building a whole new world the world of Islam. Arising in a desert land sparsely inhabited by a nomad race previously undistinguished in human annals, Islam sallied forth on its great adventure with the slenderest human backing and against the heaviest material odds. Yet Islam triumphed with seemingly miraculous ease." (T. Lothrop Stoddard, The Rising Tide of Islam.) The arid Arabian Peninsula was home to Muhammad and the first Muslims back in the 7th Century A.D. Geography and climate color the theology of Islam. It was born in a harsh environment, and is an ascetic severe and rigid desert faith. It is based on the Abrahamic heritage of the Old Testament, but old pagan moon gods, Talmudic Judaism, Gnosticism, and Christianity are part of the mix. Muhammad was a clever and functional religious eclectic. He put together a theological system, with its own unique book of holy writ, from many and varied influences. By the beginning of the 8th Century, it ruled the desert lands of Arabia. During the time of Muhammad, Arabia was briefly the center of Islam, but by the end of the 7th century, the area was disunited. While Mecca and Medina retained their importance for pilgrims, Arabia was the cultural center for only a short time. The real flowering of Islamic culture found its expression in other locations ranging from Moorish Spain (Al-Andalus; perhaps the apex of The Renaissance) to Damascus and Baghdad. When Europe was in its dark ages, Islamic mathematicians, astronomers, physicians, and scholars of all types were not only preserving in Arabic the classical Greco-Roman learning, but making new discoveries as well. The oldest continually existing universities are not European, but those of the Islamic world. But while all this was going on, Saudi Arabia, as it had done for eons, continued to cook in the desert sun, and life changed little for the hardy, ascetic desert tribes who lived in a land with virtually no useable natural resources. Back in those days, they knew nothing of the hidden petrol-billions in a land where water was worth more than gold. "Modern Saudi Arabia owes its existence to Ibn Saud, an adherent of the puritanical [Wahabi] Muslim sect. Beginning in 1902, he conquered Nejd, Al-Hasa and Hejaz regions, and in 1932 he proclaimed himself King of a united Saudi Arabia." (Concise Columbia Encyclopedia, 1983, p. 732.) The Saudis and their tribal allies eventually conquered and united most of the peninsula by 1932, when ibn Saud, with British backing, proclaimed himself monarch of a country named after himself and his clan. The new nation was one of the poorest countries in the world. When it officially began in 1932, the new kingdom's treasury had less than £35,000, but oil reserves were located in 1936. Less than two years later, oil began to flow out of the barren peninsula and a non-stop pipeline of money began to flow back to the Saudi royals and their chosen aristocracy. It is the duty of every Muslim to share as he can with others, a duty of alms demanded by the Prophet himself, and the Saudi Arabian people (numbering 27 million, with 60 percent under the age of 21) also received benefits from the oil wealth. Life is good in the paternalistic and outwardly benevolent kingdom - for select groups. Certainly some women and dissidents of various types severely disagree with the regime. But many live a satisfied life, and the thousands of royals and their relatives hope to keep it that way. But not so far beneath the surface, a stew-pot of extremist beliefs cooks on, slowly approaching an eventual boiling point - under the right conditions. The bloated, pompous, hypocritical and morally corrupt Saudi royals and their entourage could be replaced and they know it. The visage of the Shah of Iran, another worldly monarch dethroned by fundamentalists, looms ominously over the not-so-old House of Saud.
 
If you are going to make a shit thread you should back it up with your own shit opinions, not the copy and shitted opinions of other shitheads leading to a further shitstorm.
 
The middle east is a fucking powder keg at the moment, if Israel or the US steps up and makes a military move the world is going to go to shit. We need to cut our loses and bail on the middle east, we don't like them they hate us so we should leave and they can pray to allah and murder their own people not our soldiers.
 
I don't know a lot about foreign policy or politics.. but should I be worried that 11 different middle eastern countries have staged protests, killed a US ambassador, and attempted to storm other US embassy's in the last week?
 
We bail on the middle east and we'll see the Saudi Princes who own the oil get overthrown by Jihadist who will in turn cut the westernized nations oil supply. This would result in economic breakdown that would be 10X greater than the current, especially for the European nations who don't have oil reserves and are completely dependent upon Saudi Arabia for oil. Ultimately, the side who will win this war is the side with the most patients. If America and the allies can wait out the movement than we could limit the spread of the Wahabi faith by knocking out its leaders and promoters, than the western world could eventually watch the Islamic revolution die out. Mind that this must be done while promoting and protecting the leaders who advocate for a more modernized progressive Islamic faith. Obama bin Laden said it himself, that the only way the Americans will win this war is if they never leave, otherwise they will fail.
 
Interesting tidbit...when I was in Thailand I met a girl who was teaching in Bahrain, and all the teachers had to go through the Atlases and cross out Israel and change it to Occupied Palestine.
 
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