Is Eileen Gu Competing for China Problematic?

I think that it is possible to perform your art/skill in a country as a national without lending support to those same notions, but what Eileen Gu is doing isn't it. Take a look at this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Furtw%C3%A4ngler

German conductor who conducted the berlin philharmonic from 1922-45 and opposed Nazism. I mean this is just badass:

"I remember Hitler turning to Furtwängler and telling him that he would now have to allow himself to be used by the party for propaganda purposes, and I remember that Furtwängler refused categorically. Hitler flew into a fury and told Furtwängler that in that case there would be a concentration camp ready for him. Furtwängler quietly replied: "In that case, Herr Reichskanzler, at least I will be in very good company." Hitler couldn't even answer, and vanished from the room."
 
14392953:BigPurpleSkiSuit said:
I think that it is possible to perform your art/skill in a country as a national without lending support to those same notions, but what Eileen Gu is doing isn't it. Take a look at this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Furtw%C3%A4ngler

German conductor who conducted the berlin philharmonic from 1922-45 and opposed Nazism. I mean this is just badass:

"I remember Hitler turning to Furtwängler and telling him that he would now have to allow himself to be used by the party for propaganda purposes, and I remember that Furtwängler refused categorically. Hitler flew into a fury and told Furtwängler that in that case there would be a concentration camp ready for him. Furtwängler quietly replied: "In that case, Herr Reichskanzler, at least I will be in very good company." Hitler couldn't even answer, and vanished from the room."

Dont think Eileen is consenting to being used for CCP propaganda purposes.

Yes rip the CCP all you want and they deserve it and more. But to say the athlete representing that Nation, remember, and not the CCP or the government, must be a bad person, is i think very mean-spirited and cynical.

Like some have mentioned, Ameria has its own problems. And while its true the American government is far superior (to its domestic population at least. we invade and bomb the shit out of people half a world away) than the CCP is to theirs, the same cannot be said about the American Nation vs the Chinese Nation as a whole. Each side has good and bad. Its never as black and white as the propagandists want to sell you. For example China has lower incarceration rates (than the US) even including all of the 1-2 million Uyghurs presumably in camps. Lower rates of violent crimes. Street cops are generally more friendly and less inclined to shoot first and ask questions later, most of them not even carrying guns. Universal healthcare (with low co-pays) for working people and retirees. Strong family value, low divorce rates and fewer neglected kids. Strong work ethics. Extensive rail transportation system that's more environmentally friendly and just as fast as our domestic flights (airport overlays) and truck freight. Better K-12 education. And despite deteleration under madman Xi, China's human rights situation is better than in many countries the US invaded or meddled with - Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, or some US allies - Saudi, Pakistan and Israel. Women's rights situation is vastly better than in another US allie - India (and Saudi, obviously). All of that of course counter balanced by CCP's wrongdoings. But CCP is not and does not represent "China".

I dont get why you lot insists that anyone defending the athlete must defend "China". Had no intention of doing that, but since you insist, here you go. Happy now?

And while we are at it, why dont we say any athlete who chooses to represent the US when they have potentially another option, must also be a bad person because of the established 1 Million civilian we killed (directly and indirectly) in Iraq, and more in other countries; the CIA dark money destabilization regions; starving children in places thanks to US sanctions; NSA spying; our 700 military bases overseas; packed prisons with disproportionally black people in it; our democracy on the verge of collapse; a new mass shooting and a new police brutality case every other day; and so on and so forth. Of course I'm not really saying that and I've no interest in bashing the US, but just you realize nothing is black and white. 150 years ago we had slavery and Native American genocide, and women couldn't vote. Progress takes time. And you should ask, for all of our anti-China propaganda in the media, what purposes does it serve, considering we support Saudi Arabia, and we condone Israeli apartheid? Its geopolitics, that's all.
 
I dont think it makes her a bad person, but come on, but I put it on par with LeBron and the NBA getting tight with China for that sweet money

14392978:luthus001 said:
Dont think Eileen is consenting to being used for CCP propaganda purposes.

Yes rip the CCP all you want and they deserve it and more. But to say the athlete representing that Nation, remember, and not the CCP or the government, must be a bad person, is i think very mean-spirited and cynical.

Like some have mentioned, Ameria has its own problems. And while its true the American government is far superior (to its domestic population at least. we invade and bomb the shit out of people half a world away) than the CCP is to theirs, the same cannot be said about the American Nation vs the Chinese Nation as a whole. Each side has good and bad. Its never as black and white as the propagandists want to sell you. For example China has lower incarceration rates (than the US) even including all of the 1-2 million Uyghurs presumably in camps. Lower rates of violent crimes. Street cops are generally more friendly and less inclined to shoot first and ask questions later, most of them not even carrying guns. Universal healthcare (with low co-pays) for working people and retirees. Strong family value, low divorce rates and fewer neglected kids. Strong work ethics. Extensive rail transportation system that's more environmentally friendly and just as fast as our domestic flights (airport overlays) and truck freight. Better K-12 education. And despite deteleration under madman Xi, China's human rights situation is better than in many countries the US invaded or meddled with - Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, or some US allies - Saudi, Pakistan and Israel. Women's rights situation is vastly better than in another US allie - India (and Saudi, obviously). All of that of course counter balanced by CCP's wrongdoings. But CCP is not and does not represent "China".

I dont get why you lot insists that anyone defending the athlete must defend "China". Had no intention of doing that, but since you insist, here you go. Happy now?

And while we are at it, why dont we say any athlete who chooses to represent the US when they have potentially another option, must also be a bad person because of the established 1 Million civilian we killed (directly and indirectly) in Iraq, and more in other countries; the CIA dark money destabilization regions; starving children in places thanks to US sanctions; NSA spying; our 700 military bases overseas; packed prisons with disproportionally black people in it; our democracy on the verge of collapse; a new mass shooting and a new police brutality case every other day; and so on and so forth. Of course I'm not really saying that and I've no interest in bashing the US, but just you realize nothing is black and white. 150 years ago we had slavery and Native American genocide, and women couldn't vote. Progress takes time. And you should ask, for all of our anti-China propaganda in the media, what purposes does it serve, considering we support Saudi Arabia, and we condone Israeli apartheid? Its geopolitics, that's all.
 
14392964:700billion said:
I'm going to guess it has something to do with skiing for china would make her mom proud

She said in an interview that it is because she "loves her heritage," nevermind she was born and raised in the US and her father is American. Her connection to China is that her mom has Chinese citizenship.
 
14364310:TRVP_ANGEL said:
This thread going to make NS banned in China. I'll save us

[h1]Super Idol的笑容 都没你的甜 八月正午的阳光 都没你耀眼 热爱 105 °C的你 滴滴清纯的蒸馏水[/h1]

Bruh nobody understands but this is fucking epic. Im singing this now lol.
 
She grew up with her Chinese grandma and mother, she speaks Mandarin at home, she goes back to Beijing every summer, she set a goal of completing in Beijing Olympics and say hello to everyone in Mandarin when she was 13.

14393049:skeirman said:
She said in an interview that it is because she "loves her heritage," nevermind she was born and raised in the US and her father is American. Her connection to China is that her mom has Chinese citizenship.
 
14393070:wcheesew said:
She grew up with her Chinese grandma and mother, she speaks Mandarin at home, she goes back to Beijing every summer, she set a goal of completing in Beijing Olympics and say hello to everyone in Mandarin when she was 13.

Her connection to China is that her mom has Chinese citizenship.
 
14393039:BigPurpleSkiSuit said:
I dont think it makes her a bad person, but come on, but I put it on par with LeBron and the NBA getting tight with China for that sweet money

Ignoring human rights violations in favor of economic prospects is as American as it gets, if anything it kinda shows how her growing up in the US shaped her. Like I've said before, its dumb to trivialize her connection to China and not up to us to be the arbitrators of the validity of her words. Her decision to represent China is vested in her heritage and own best interests (who knows the pressure her family/ people around her was).

Haters gonna hate and if athletes standing up to China's human rights abuses are the meat of the discussion here then it would've been nice to see some athletes boycott. Instead we've had athletes being told to not even speak of it because they might be imprisoned which is an abuse in itself. Singling out one 19 year old for not being the only athlete to step up and be a figurehead is asking a ton considering no one else has.
 
Crazy how this thread was resurrected by a bunch of brand new users, right when the Olympics started, and some of them are speaking about China favorably. Not suspicious at all.
 
14393148:hi_vis360 said:
Crazy how this thread was resurrected by a bunch of brand new users, right when the Olympics started, and some of them are speaking about China favorably. Not suspicious at all.

In the past, NS experiences a significant uptick in traffic, users and overall engagement during the olympics, you can take off your tin hat dude.
 
14393149:eheath said:
In the past, NS experiences a significant uptick in traffic, users and overall engagement during the olympics, you can take off your tin hat dude.

oh no the CCP has gotten to eheath too. we're doomed boys
 
14392758:mattm7 said:
Mate their housing market just collapsed because they're biggest property developer was operating like a giant Ponzi scheme

Their entire economy is a house of cards. Most Chinese retirement plans are in real estate. They've completely oversaturated the market in these fake "investment properties" and the subsequent result that is just starting to play out will make the 2008 US mortgage crisis appear very benign in comparison. China is fucked.
 
14392541:luthus001 said:
If i really wanted to defend China, guess i could repeat the government line about how many people they lifted out of poverty and how their standard of living is quite a bit higher than the (East) Indians'. They also killed a lot of people with their crazy ideology and Communist economic experiment.

Im not going there. Xi is a monstrosity. Democracy and freedom has never been so far out of reach for the people, with modern weapons and surveillance technology in the hands of an out-of-control regime. But i digress.

I find it insulting to the collective American intelligence, that unconditional hate for persons caught in this aweful geopolitical crossfire and just trying to do the best they can, is, well, unconditional and enjoyed by a supermajority of Americans including in the skiing community that is normally "chill"

1030914.jpeg
 
14392911:corona said:
100%.

Unfortunately it says nothing good about her as a person that she willingly chooses to represent a country with such an abysmal human rights record (both past and present).

Which American athlete are we talking about here?
 
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No, she has ancestry there and eats Chinese food. It's not like she posts memes about how great the Chinese regime is, just like I don't post memes about my favorite sociopath politicians who haven't made me a ham sandwich.

She can ski for the Chinese and China without sking for China Inc.
 
14393263:*TURBONERD* said:
Which American athlete are we talking about here

US inc never done anything wrong. Bush was the incarnate of Jesus and US skiers ski for the Messianic kingdom which is situated in the District of Columbia. The US is divine providence.
 
anyone else notice how all of the commentators are saying how beautiful the venue looks when theres smog and fucking silos in the landscape. actually no it looks like hell, everyones so scared of china. fuck em, might lose social credit for this but whateverrrr
 
ive been indifferent on this subject for awhile because you see lots of athletes doing it but atleast she can actually throw down and represent our sport. Let’s not forget Liz swaney 4 years ago leaving an abysmal impression on women’s pipe skiing. Regardless of what you think left and right dub 16s is beyond impressive male or female
 
Does it really matter? At the end of the day hopefully she inspired a generation of Chinese kids to pick up skiing. I know the Chinese government is a hot topic these days, but maybe skiing will help there citizens build positive connections to people from other countries and be inspired by them to promote change within China. Most people just want to enjoy their lives and provide for their families, unfortunately there will always be a minority that craves power and that isn't exclusive to China.
 
14393313:TOAST. said:
Does it really matter? At the end of the day hopefully she inspired a generation of Chinese kids to pick up skiing. I know the Chinese government is a hot topic these days, but maybe skiing will help there citizens build positive connections to people from other countries and be inspired by them to promote change within China. Most people just want to enjoy their lives and provide for their families, unfortunately there will always be a minority that craves power and that isn't exclusive to China.

I think you overestimate the opportunity chinese kids have to ski
 
14393315:Biffbarf said:
I think you overestimate the opportunity chinese kids have to ski

I mean your right, it will probably still be isolated to the upper class, but that's kinda how it is everywhere. Is the government going to stop people that can afford it from doing it?
 
14393313:TOAST. said:
Does it really matter? At the end of the day hopefully she inspired a generation of Chinese kids to pick up skiing. I know the Chinese government is a hot topic these days, but maybe skiing will help there citizens build positive connections to people from other countries and be inspired by them to promote change within China. Most people just want to enjoy their lives and provide for their families, unfortunately there will always be a minority that craves power and that isn't exclusive to China.

Maybe she wants to be the next Peng Shuai?
 
14393313:TOAST. said:
Does it really matter? At the end of the day hopefully she inspired a generation of Chinese kids to pick up skiing. I know the Chinese government is a hot topic these days, but maybe skiing will help there citizens build positive connections to people from other countries and be inspired by them to promote change within China. Most people just want to enjoy their lives and provide for their families, unfortunately there will always be a minority that craves power and that isn't exclusive to China.

no this is problematic as well as we already have too many skiers.
 
China Inc has some terrible human rights abuses. We have to one up them and stop supporting apartheid in the Jewish ethnostate of Israel and say sorry for the millions we killed via Iraq war and sanctions.

While China is an economic enemy, most people might not know

this but the UK is our greatest enemy. The wooden teeth race are sneaky and have already taken over Massachusets through secret crown Inc. blood dynasties, this will become clear the more you ski at wawa.
 
14392911:corona said:
100%.

Unfortunately it says nothing good about her as a person that she willingly chooses to represent a country with such an abysmal human rights record (both past and present). She's old enough that either 1- she's totally brainwashed or 2- money is more important to her than any human rights issues. Considering she's spent her whole life in the US I have to think it's #2. Pretty sad.

What do you mean that definitely does say a lot about her as a person whether it’s right or wrong she’s still representing that. As a competitor for that country you represent that ideology right or wrong.
 
topic:@LANTASKI said:
Let me preface this first by saying I think Eileen Gu is an incredible athlete. Clearly she has taken women's skiing to another level and thats cool I guess for the people that are into women's skiing.

While I understand her decision to compete for China given her mother's nationality, her marketability in China as a Gold Winning Skier in a burgeoning snow sports market etc, I still question her judgement and the ethics of skiing for Nation with an Authoritarian Regime that imprisons its religious minorities in concentration camps, censors and restricts the basic human rights of its citizens.

I don't check NS as much as I did 20 years ago, but I find it hard to believe this is only rustlin my jimmies?

I find it disappointing that the switch from the US Ski Team to China is essentially a cash grab/sell out move and it is disappointing seeing these actions taken in a sport that was created by a bunch of dirtbags (I say that with the utmost reverence) who wanted to change skiing from the overbearing regulation and stifling nature of the FIS.

I guess we've officially gone the way of snowboarding

14393344:DummyBears said:
What do you mean that definitely does say a lot about her as a person whether it’s right or wrong she’s still representing that. As a competitor for that country you represent that ideology right or wrong.

If she was born in China, nobody would care. I think she is doing it for her mother and her Chinese ancestry. K-pop is already here, and that's a harbinger for C-pop taking over America. Like it or hate it, in 2050, you're children and children's children will all be half Chinese.
 
Is the US ski team going to keep allowing her to use our official practice facilities now that she won?

Seems a lot like Team USA hockey letting the USSR hockey team practice on our ice rinks during the great rivalry.
 
14393357:Film. said:
Is the US ski team going to keep allowing her to use our official practice facilities now that she won?

Seems a lot like Team USA hockey letting the USSR hockey team practice on our ice rinks during the great rivalry.

She might be a spy
 
14393357:Film. said:
Is the US ski team going to keep allowing her to use our official practice facilities now that she won?

Seems a lot like Team USA hockey letting the USSR hockey team practice on our ice rinks during the great rivalry.

She should be arrested and sent to gitmo for sedition
 
14393353:qazwsxedc34 said:
Damn, 10 million. I thought skiers were still earning prize money in the tens of thousands.

not when you're also a supermodel and have an enormous reach + people want to be a part of that
 
14393380:scratchskier321 said:
she chose to ski for china when she was 15 and still sucked. relax.

and if she still sucked no one would care.

I think the haters are just jealous

… of her both way dub 1620’s
 
14393344:DummyBears said:
What do you mean that definitely does say a lot about her as a person whether it’s right or wrong she’s still representing that. As a competitor for that country you represent that ideology right or wrong.

So what does that say about athletes representing the US? Do they support the genocide the country was founded on, or the largest prison population (both per capita and absolute) in the world? Do they support the concentration camps that are just as prevalent and just as abhorrent under Biden as they were under Trump?

There are things to criticize about China, particularly some of its conservative social policies and the fact that there are still billionaires in a purportedly socialist country, but even if you take the media fervor about the Uyghurs at face value it's nothing the US hasn't done many times over in terms of scale, and nothing the US isn't currently doing in character. With the multiple blatant instances of outright lying in order to agitate for a war, though, it's difficult at best to take it at face value - a list that's by no means comprehensive includes the Spanish-American War/sinking of the Maine in Havana harbor (which led to a stomach-churning genocide in the Philippines by the US), the Gulf of Tonkin "incident" precipitating the Vietnam War (also arguably a genocide), the Nayirah testimony to justify the Gulf War, and the idea that that Saddam Hussein had WMDs. I encourage y'all to look this shit up. It's a clear pattern.
 
14393401:*TURBONERD* said:
So what does that say about athletes representing the US? Do they support the genocide the country was founded on, or the largest prison population (both per capita and absolute) in the world? Do they support the concentration camps that are just as prevalent and just as abhorrent under Biden as they were under Trump?

There are things to criticize about China, particularly some of its conservative social policies and the fact that there are still billionaires in a purportedly socialist country, but even if you take the media fervor about the Uyghurs at face value it's nothing the US hasn't done many times over in terms of scale, and nothing the US isn't currently doing in character. With the multiple blatant instances of outright lying in order to agitate for a war, though, it's difficult at best to take it at face value - a list that's by no means comprehensive includes the Spanish-American War/sinking of the Maine in Havana harbor (which led to a stomach-churning genocide in the Philippines by the US), the Gulf of Tonkin "incident" precipitating the Vietnam War (also arguably a genocide), the Nayirah testimony to justify the Gulf War, and the idea that that Saddam Hussein had WMDs. I encourage y'all to look this shit up. It's a clear pattern.

The difference is you don't go to prison for talking about that here. That's pretty important. And with all due respect, you're a simp bitch if you try to justify the current ccp with the wrongdoings in the US's past.
 
14393417:Biffbarf said:
The difference is you don't go to prison for talking about that here. That's pretty important. And with all due respect, you're a simp bitch if you try to justify the current ccp with the wrongdoings in the US's past.

You're missing my point in two ways. First, US is still engaging in plenty of shady shit, like fomenting a war with Ukraine, the migrant concentration camps I mentioned already, and attempting to foment a war with Ukraine. Second, I just don't trust the US media at all when it comes to foreign affairs, as even outlets that aren't explicitly state-run media like NPR try to gin up hate with ridiculous pieces like this (which is actually very OT for this thread), which just cements the distrust I already have because of the long track record of attempting to foment war that I previously mentioned:

https://slate.com/culture/2022/02/eileen-gu-olympics-citizenship-china-usa.html

Finally, if we want to talk about specific reasons to distrust the US media when it comes to China, let's talk about Tibet. Do you know what it was like prior to Chinese occupation? Here's a quick personal snapshot of a country whose social relations were feudal, comparable (loosely, older European history isn't something I'm too well-informed on) to medieval Europe until 1959:

"Tashi Tsering, now an English professor at Lhasa University is representative of Tibetans that do not see China's occupation as worse tyranny. He was taken from his family near Drepung at 13 and forced into the Dalai Lama's personal dance troupe. Beaten by his teachers, Tsering put up with rape by a well-connected monk in exchange for protection. In his autobiography, The Struggle for Modern Tibet, Tsering writes that China brought long-awaited hope when is laid claim to Tibet in 1950."

Source:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/feb/10/tibet-china-feudalism

The point here isn't about China's actions in Tibet, but rather what you don't hear about China (or any other nation that isn't a staunch US ally). Also, as a final note that doesn't really fit well anywhere else, the wide majority of reports of Uyghur abuse can be traced back to Radio Free Asia, which is quite literally US state media. Would you trust RT to tell you what's going on in the US?

Edit: Changed "literally state media" to "literally US state media".

**This post was edited on Feb 8th 2022 at 2:16:11am
 
14393401:*TURBONERD* said:
So what does that say about athletes representing the US? Do they support the genocide the country was founded on, or the largest prison population (both per capita and absolute) in the world? Do they support the concentration camps that are just as prevalent and just as abhorrent under Biden as they were under Trump?

There are things to criticize about China, particularly some of its conservative social policies and the fact that there are still billionaires in a purportedly socialist country, but even if you take the media fervor about the Uyghurs at face value it's nothing the US hasn't done many times over in terms of scale, and nothing the US isn't currently doing in character. With the multiple blatant instances of outright lying in order to agitate for a war, though, it's difficult at best to take it at face value - a list that's by no means comprehensive includes the Spanish-American War/sinking of the Maine in Havana harbor (which led to a stomach-churning genocide in the Philippines by the US), the Gulf of Tonkin "incident" precipitating the Vietnam War (also arguably a genocide), the Nayirah testimony to justify the Gulf War, and the idea that that Saddam Hussein had WMDs. I encourage y'all to look this shit up. It's a clear pattern.

The US wasn't founded on genocide. Watching YouTube docs does not make you an expert in US History. You also cannot equate the actions of men hundreds of years ago to the actions of a regime in our evolved and conscious present epoch that are actually committing genocide. In addition to that China represents the greatest threat to man's natural rights of freedom of speech, expression, privacy etc.

Despite its flaws, US Foreign Policy has defended subjugated people who are generally the targets of real genocide: Bosnians/Ethnic Albanians in the Balkans, Jews in the Holocaust, Yazidis/Christians in Northern Iraq and Syria, ETC ETC
 
14393423:*TURBONERD* said:
You're missing my point in two ways. First, US is still engaging in plenty of shady shit, like fomenting a war with Ukraine, the migrant concentration camps I mentioned already, and attempting to foment a war with Ukraine. Second, I just don't trust the US media at all when it comes to foreign affairs, as even outlets that aren't explicitly state-run media like NPR try to gin up hate with ridiculous pieces like this (which is actually very OT for this thread), which just cements the distrust I already have because of the long track record of attempting to foment war that I previously mentioned:

https://slate.com/culture/2022/02/eileen-gu-olympics-citizenship-china-usa.html

Finally, if we want to talk about specific reasons to distrust the US media when it comes to China, let's talk about Tibet. Do you know what it was like prior to Chinese occupation? Here's a quick personal snapshot of a country whose social relations were feudal, comparable (loosely, older European history isn't something I'm too well-informed on) to medieval Europe until 1959:

"Tashi Tsering, now an English professor at Lhasa University is representative of Tibetans that do not see China's occupation as worse tyranny. He was taken from his family near Drepung at 13 and forced into the Dalai Lama's personal dance troupe. Beaten by his teachers, Tsering put up with rape by a well-connected monk in exchange for protection. In his autobiography, The Struggle for Modern Tibet, Tsering writes that China brought long-awaited hope when is laid claim to Tibet in 1950."

Source:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/feb/10/tibet-china-feudalism

The point here isn't about China's actions in Tibet, but rather what you don't hear about China (or any other nation that isn't a staunch US ally). Also, as a final note that doesn't really fit well anywhere else, the wide majority of reports of Uyghur abuse can be traced back to Radio Free Asia, which is quite literally US state media. Would you trust RT to tell you what's going on in the US?

Edit: Changed "literally state media" to "literally US state media".

**This post was edited on Feb 8th 2022 at 2:16:11am

The US is not trying to foment a war with Ukraine. You got your nations mixed up , pal. Take a lap and try again.

**This post was edited on Feb 8th 2022 at 6:03:52am
 
14393049:skeirman said:
She said in an interview that it is because she "loves her heritage," nevermind she was born and raised in the US and her father is American. Her connection to China is that her mom has Chinese citizenship.

In which case I don't think its problematic. Its not like she's doing it for the authoritarian regime; Her mom probably left China because of that regime (I don't wanna assume). But people still have a deep connection to their culture- so I think doing it for her Heritage is kinda sweet and also seems like the only reason she would be doing it anyways.
 
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