In Defence of Slopestyle

A

aerobiee

New member
You've probably seen that "oh so" provocative quote headlining the latest interview with Phil Casabon. I did. It's a hard one to miss. Before I read the interview I’d already decided that something should be said about it. But I resisted that immediate urge and decided that I would read the interview first, thinking it would only add fuel to the argumentative fire I had smouldering. Funny thing is, once I had read it, I found that I agreed with almost everything Casabon had to say. Almost...

So where did the sudden, explosive motivation to respond come from? The quote has been well selected. It's a snare that will catch any stray procrastinator in search of some controversy. Clearly it has worked on me at least.

But it's the quote out of context that first angered me and so it is the assumed context that I shall attack. And I don't think I’ve just invented this context either. Amongst certain circles there seems to be a consensus that all the style has been taken out of slopestyle. That idea is a pile of shit. But when I see a picture of an influential skier at the top of the home page, accompanied with the quote, "When thinking about slopestyle, conservative and outdated are two words that come to mind." I find myself taking it personally.

It's completely irrational I know but let me try and explain. I get pretty excited when I find a live competition feed on the internet and I'll usually put down whatever i'm doing to watch it. More than just enjoying it for the ski porn though, when I watch these competitions I feel that I'm watching a pinnacle of skiing that I aim for. So when i'm told that this is not in fact a pinnacle, and that the athletes are only doing certain tricks because they are forced to perform a specific way for the judges like some fucking gymnast, I react as anyone would if they were told that their idea of incredible skiing is robotic and lifeless.

There's a more important issue than my feelings though. Quotes such as these undermine the achievement of so many skiers who have excelled in this format of competition. Once you read the interview it becomes pretty obvious that this isn't Casabon's intention at all. His animosity is targeted at the format and judging and he seems to maintain a great respect for the athletes that participate in the events. But that doesn't negate the point. The growing idea seems to be that all the hard work and training has been specifically targeted at learning a set routine that will win them competitions.

I suppose what Casabon is actually calling for is a little variety, and this is where I completely agree with him. We all love seeing something we haven't seen before; god knows how many times i've wound back his own edits just to double check that I actually saw what I thought I saw.

I'm sure there are a fair few members who have been lucky enough to see a pro level skier throwing down in person. I know I have and I'm pretty sure the words "conservative" and "outdated" didn't come to mind. So at what point does this sudden chasm appear between unbelievable skiing and slopestyle competitions? The difference is that there are now fifty or so of these super humans being set off one after the other. We get to see these same incredible tricks over and over again but it's just too much ski candy all at once and before the last run we've become sick with it. The point I want to stress though is that these tricks are no less incredible because of that.

But you still want to change the format, so how? The seemingly obvious answer is that more points should be awarded for style. But let’s consider this example for a moment. Hypothetical skier A sends the smoothest most tweaked out cork 5 blunt you can imagine. It's simply ridiculous; you didn't know legs could even bend that way. He stomps it and rides away like he never even took off. The judges jot down their scores and then watch as hypothetical skier B drops in and sends the biggest 0 in history, he sails casually over the Gucci plateau without a care in the world. Even big air Dave is impressed. For good measure he holds a poked out safety all the way, letting go just before he takes the impossibly hard landing and rides away. The judges think about it and then jot down his score.

Here is the question; who won? Style, in these terms, is impossible to judge. While we might not all agree completely with the results of current competitions, there is at least a general consensus as to what was a good run and what was not.

I could keep ranting on for ages but I’ll spare you. I admit to agreeing with Casabon in one respect, it would be great to see more diversity in slopestyle. But I can’t make the jump to those two words that sprang to his mind. It’s a cliché but, like all freestyle skiing, slopestyle has always been about making your mark on the mountain. If your mark is conservative and outdated, then how do you expect to win?
 
OP, you should really format this sort of thing into an article for the news section with some pictures and videos. This sort of thing is exactly what the news section is for, and in the end you'll get more exposure and appreciation there.
 
I would also agree with you. I feel like if there were no competitions, people would see the people who throw down with "comp skier" tricks would just be seen as crazy Good instead of disliked as i feel it has started to be associated with the worst part of freeskiing in many respects. The idea of competition is what is mAking people dislike it which is whAt bdog was saying, but the. Competitions are also the way that many skiers use to progressWhich more people should realize. Idk where im going with this anymore...
 
I would support slopestyle, but since you can't spell, I can no longer support your cause. Go defend something else, maybe at one of those SEC schools where they dont know how to spell anyways...
 
13230729:ATLskier said:
I would support slopestyle, but since you can't spell, I can no longer support your cause. Go defend something else, maybe at one of those SEC schools where they dont know how to spell anyways...
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I may have missed some, but I didn't notice any major spelling errors? And I do like your logic, if there are any errors, any statement is irrelevant.

You're a dickhead.
 
13230488:NinetyFour said:
OP, you should really format this sort of thing into an article for the news section with some pictures and videos. This sort of thing is exactly what the news section is for, and in the end you'll get more exposure and appreciation there.
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Firstly, NinetyFour is completely right.

Secondly, I wrote the Phil Casabon interview and I selected that quote to go with the homepage image. I actually went back and forth on picking that quote for the homepage, I didn't and still don't know what Phil would think of it. In the end I went for it because I read and reread his answer and I think it's an accurate representation of his answer to my question. Of course it's designed to draw readers in and I deliberately picked something from the end of the article. It's near impossible these days to persuade a large number of people to actually sit down and read a whole block of text, as you may be finding from the responses in this thread.

But the main reason I'm responding is that I don't think the quote is out of context in the way that you mean it. Of course it is functionally away from the context any selective quote is by definition. But I don't believe that by taking the context away, I've changed the meaning of what Phil said. The quote is the essence of what his answer was, in a few words that fit over a picture. Yes, he clarifies that he doesn't want to take anything away from the skill of the riders and that is left out of the quote, but his point remains that the actual events (the courses, the AFP/FIS and maybe even the judging) in slopestyle are conservative and outdated.

This thread may die on it's feet, I hope not because it's an interesting debate to have and I'd love to see more people weigh in. If it does, or even if it doesn't hit me up via PM and maybe we can work out some kind of debate as a news story?
 
Slopestyle skiing is conservative compared to other forms of our sport. Just look at any major ski comp, the skier finishes his/her run and pops of their skis and holds them up so the camera can see so their sponsors are happy. Then it comes to interviews. Interviews are all the same these days. "ahh yes could of worked on my run abit more" blah blah blah. Same shit different day. The only comp skier I can think of who actually represents his personality through interviews and waiting for his score is Henrik Harlaut.

If you've ever lapped with any pro you'd realise that all of them are no where near as poker faced as they appear in the comps. They have fun, smile, joke, laugh and enjoy all other mediums of skiing.

However NS has created the notion that comp skiing is for "robots" and lack style, which I think in my personal opinion is complete shit. The notion that in order to have style you need to hit the streets has been fabricated by NS who need to justify their inability to throw future spins.

Although, when comparing freeskiing to other forms of skiing *cough* cross country *cough* we just appear to be a bunch of youthful idiots throwing tricks. Wearing stupid shit and being cocky pricks who think we're black. So with that aspect we are hardly conservative at all.

However at the end of the day, the whole style vs comp skiing debate is a dead horse
 
13230814:ChubbyBoy said:
Slopestyle skiing is conservative compared to other forms of our sport. Just look at any major ski comp, the skier finishes his/her run and pops of their skis and holds them up so the camera can see so their sponsors are happy. Then it comes to interviews. Interviews are all the same these days. "ahh yes could of worked on my run abit more" blah blah blah. Same shit different day. The only comp skier I can think of who actually represents his personality through interviews and waiting for his score is Henrik Harlaut.

If you've ever lapped with any pro you'd realise that all of them are no where near as poker faced as they appear in the comps. They have fun, smile, joke, laugh and enjoy all other mediums of skiing.

However NS has created the notion that comp skiing is for "robots" and lack style, which I think in my personal opinion is complete shit. The notion that in order to have style you need to hit the streets has been fabricated by NS who need to justify their inability to throw future spins.

Although, when comparing freeskiing to other forms of skiing *cough* cross country *cough* we just appear to be a bunch of youthful idiots throwing tricks. Wearing stupid shit and being cocky pricks who think we're black. So with that aspect we are hardly conservative at all.

However at the end of the day, the whole style vs comp skiing debate is a dead horse
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This
 
Apologies for the super long post, i didnt realise i had tat much to say when i started writing. I considered re-uploading it but it's probably too late now. Thanks to everyone who took the time to read it.

@ATLskier Please let me know any I have made so i don't make them again in the future.

@Twig I'll PM you later.

@ChubbyBoy I hadn't even thought about post run interviews when I wrote this; interesting point. I'm not sure the debate is a "dead horse" though. How can people hope to change the sport will if they're not willing to talk about how that might happen?
 
topic:aerobiee said:
Here is the question; who won? Style, in these terms, is impossible to judge. While we might not all agree completely with the results of current competitions, there is at least a general consensus as to what was a good run and what was not.
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My main point I always like to remind people on this topic is the fact that the snowboarding video game "Amped 2" managed to actually score style incredibly accurately.

You get a score for the difficulty of the trick, but then how smooth you executed the motion on the controls acts as a multiplier for that trick. Literally the ONLY way to get huge scores in that game is by executing the most perfect corked 5 shifty you have ever imagined.

The problem is that too much weight is giving to degree of difficulty. Smoothness and consistency of motion is easy to judge objectively, but you need the points system to reward it properly.

I quit judging for the most part around my beliefs on this issue. That zero you spoke of - if it was absolutely flawless - could beat a dub 10 no problem in my books. However without all the judges being on the same page you end up just really screwing up the results.
 
13231014:Mr.Bishop said:
My main point I always like to remind people on this topic is the fact that the snowboarding video game "Amped 2" managed to actually score style incredibly accurately.

You get a score for the difficulty of the trick, but then how smooth you executed the motion on the controls acts as a multiplier for that trick. Literally the ONLY way to get huge scores in that game is by executing the most perfect corked 5 shifty you have ever imagined.
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I LOVED Amped 2! Such a great game, although Amped 3 was an abomination. So much fun doing shifties and tweaked grabs to get more points and buttering the entire run to link ever trick together.
 
I'm happy you made this thread, purely on the basis of changing Casabon's quote.

His quote is NOT "When thinking about slopestyle, conservative and outdated are two words that come to mind."

It is "Conservative and outdated are words that come to my mind [when considering traditional 3 rail + 3 jump slopestyle comps]"

These are not the same. Maybe Twig is right, but I don't get the feeling that Casabon discredits all slopestyle skiing. There are plenty (most?) comps that do not fall into the 2004esque 3 rail + 3 jump category. Remember all the pre-Olympics shit where snowboarders were dropping out of the comp because the run was too gnarly? Remember X-Games last year? It had 17 features on the course.

I get it, the image is provocative - it sure got me to read the article. But I left with a bad taste in my mouth since the context seemed so stretched, which is a bummer because it's an otherwise really solid article.
 
I like slopestyle for the courses. That said the 3 or 4 jumpline the same way every contest doesn't really do it for me.

I understand but hope that the jumps get creative again. The rail sections are starting to get pretty wild. I'm hoping there will be jump elements moving in that same direction. I mean what can be built for these things has changed massively over the years.

I'd like some weird jumps throw in. Maybe not even jumps but plaza setups with large tranny options mixed in.
 
topic:aerobiee said:
The judges jot down their scores and then watch as hypothetical skier B drops in and sends the biggest 0 in history, he sails casually over the Gucci plateau without a care in the world. Even big air Dave is impressed. For good measure he holds a poked out safety all the way, letting go just before he takes the impossibly hard landing and rides away
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Hypothetical skier B can only be Jossi...

The only way I see style points making a bigger impact in regular comps is if the judges understand the difficulty of said style-y tricks (not saying I do). But there are tons of single and double rotations/grabs that are super stylish and wayyy harder to execute than your typical ones you see done in comps.
 
what i read in that article was that phil casabon is an open-minded, respectful skier who sees potential in a very artistic and mature way. It's not all black and white, there are shades of every color. each skier is free to ski in whichever way they deem appropriate, and phil has just figured out what works best for him in terms of fun. in the end, his actions speak more affirmatively than anything.
 
I definitely think that the scoring system should be reconsidered and comps should be a little more creative, but I still agree with you.

I love watching Slopestyle, even just the 3 rail, 3 jump variety, and think that it helps progress and expand our sport and athletes in many positive ways.

I think one way that could help set of a change would be with the riders shifting how they throw down also. I know many skiers wouldn't want to, or don't like comps, and that is completely understandable, but I feel that if we had Casabon, Delorme, Keefer, etc, throwing very stylish tricks in comps, we might see a change in the scoring system over time. (We probably wouldn't, but who knows?)

This is not meant to blame the riders at all, as I have the upmost respect for every single skier out there, comp skier or not. The change still has to come from the judges and comp officials.
 
The saddest part about judging is that people who are doing different and unique things seem to be penalised for doing so. Vincent Gagnier has thrown some of the most insane, difficult, stylish and unique tricks I've ever seen in slopestyle competition, yet he is repeatedly scored down for it. I want to see more of his crazy shit because it is that difficult that no one else is doing it.
 
something good that comes out of slopestyle comps is how it pushes the sport and how athletes want to one up the other guy so they learn to stomp massive tricks. even if they don't have tons of style i think they are fun to watch. plus style i think comes with learning a trick better and once they can stomp it they can try variations of it and do it different ways. this is where the skiers individual style comes from in my opinion.
 
The comp scene is outdated and conservative in comparison to film oriented skiing. The progression of style and innovation in urban/ film skiing far exceeds the progression in modern comp skiing. It's all the same, with the rails up top and the jumps at the bottom. Mute grabs with double and triple corks. There just isn't much deviation from this format. I think Phil is just commenting on how this scene of skiing hasn't changed or progressed like other parts of the skiing community has. I agree with OP in saying that comp skiers and what they are doing should be respected, because in the end it is remarkable what they do. I think that Phil most likely didn't mean what he said in an offensive or mean way, it's just his view on the topic.
 
I made a comment on the Casabon story about this, which wasn't even bad, and it got deleted for some reason. Stupid.

Anyways, I think that people should just do what they want to do and enjoy the sport. You don't see Bobby, Goepper, or anyone else hating on Casabon and that crew. Why the need to prove your point through negative remarks toward other styles of skiing? If you really did stand for something that's unique and chill, you wouldn't need to sound off on it every two seconds, which people like T Hall and Casabon tend to do.

Take Garrett Russell for example. The dude does his own thing, focuses on style, and has a huge influence because he keeps to himself and develops his own way of skiing. That's what Inspired needs to do. It's pretty childish how they stir the pot and drop negative comments aimed at certain aspects of skiing all the time.
 
13231757:beantownsmuggler said:
I made a comment on the Casabon story about this, which wasn't even bad, and it got deleted for some reason. Stupid.

Anyways, I think that people should just do what they want to do and enjoy the sport. You don't see Bobby, Goepper, or anyone else hating on Casabon and that crew. Why the need to prove your point through negative remarks toward other styles of skiing? If you really did stand for something that's unique and chill, you wouldn't need to sound off on it every two seconds, which people like T Hall and Casabon tend to do.

Take Garrett Russell for example. The dude does his own thing, focuses on style, and has a huge influence because he keeps to himself and develops his own way of skiing. That's what Inspired needs to do. It's pretty childish how they stir the pot and drop negative comments aimed at certain aspects of skiing all the time.
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I agree and disagree. Casabon and Harlaut both respect comp skiers and generally don't do mauch bashing. T Hall on the other hand. He bashes everything that isn't what he's doing. T Hall is the ultimate hater in skiing. Casabon and Henrik can't really hate on comp though seeing Henrik is at the top of the comp scene right now, and Casabon was in comps not that long ago.
 
13231082:theabortionator said:
I like slopestyle for the courses. That said the 3 or 4 jumpline the same way every contest doesn't really do it for me.

I understand but hope that the jumps get creative again. The rail sections are starting to get pretty wild. I'm hoping there will be jump elements moving in that same direction. I mean what can be built for these things has changed massively over the years.

I'd like some weird jumps throw in. Maybe not even jumps but plaza setups with large tranny options mixed in.
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Its actually a very interesting side argument to put some of this on the park builders....

I mean its super safe to build a slopestyle course that has all the typical elements... everything that you know will make a good contest.

It takes brass balls to build something different. In Europe they seem to give a lot of freedom (and money) to build shit that is just plain wacky.

The B&E, nine nights, etc. are great examples of actually allowing the park builders to get weird - in conjunction with the athletes.

I could easily debate that if you allowed the park builders to go nuts you could single-handedly save slopestyle.
 
i was going to make some other thread about something similar to this but not based on the article you read, mostly just about comp skiing.

i would love more people in slopestyle to do stuff more like jesper and i'm still surprised he doesn't win as often as other guys like his early nose frontflip was insane! but anyways.....

don't any of you think it would be a good idea to change up the judging system, like what i think they should do is get a whole bunch of people like idk 20 people to judge and each little group of people judge a different aspect. like for example tanner, dom, b-dog and whoever else you could think of in that category could all judge style and then wallisch, goepper, kenworthy, bobby and others would judge the technical aspect or the difficulty, then people like jesper, andy, (the whole tc crew pretty much also haha) could like do creativity!

I think that if this was the way it worked then a lot of comp skiers would be pushed to excel in all different types not just what the 5 or whatever judges want to see they would have to do their own thing and bring it in all different aspects like for example someone could do a laid out cork 3 truck then a dub cork 10 or something that would be awesome. Also the reason i would say having more judges is then you get a better honest opinion like one judge likes something and the other likes something else the more judges the more accurate the judging would be not just 1 guys opinion.

and i know that people that are currently still competing couldn't judge because well yeah that would be unfair but you get my idea.

and when i was listing people for the different categories i was not trying to say that goepper doesn't have style and that only the tc crew is creative i was just coming up with some people on the spot, so no intentions of saying some people aren't creative and some are only technical.
 
13232012:steezy_doge said:
i was going to make some other thread about something similar to this but not based on the article you read, mostly just about comp skiing.

i would love more people in slopestyle to do stuff more like jesper and i'm still surprised he doesn't win as often as other guys like his early nose frontflip was insane! but anyways.....

don't any of you think it would be a good idea to change up the judging system, like what i think they should do is get a whole bunch of people like idk 20 people to judge and each little group of people judge a different aspect. like for example tanner, dom, b-dog and whoever else you could think of in that category could all judge style and then wallisch, goepper, kenworthy, bobby and others would judge the technical aspect or the difficulty, then people like jesper, andy, (the whole tc crew pretty much also haha) could like do creativity!

I think that if this was the way it worked then a lot of comp skiers would be pushed to excel in all different types not just what the 5 or whatever judges want to see they would have to do their own thing and bring it in all different aspects like for example someone could do a laid out cork 3 truck then a dub cork 10 or something that would be awesome. Also the reason i would say having more judges is then you get a better honest opinion like one judge likes something and the other likes something else the more judges the more accurate the judging would be not just 1 guys opinion.

and i know that people that are currently still competing couldn't judge because well yeah that would be unfair but you get my idea.

and when i was listing people for the different categories i was not trying to say that goepper doesn't have style and that only the tc crew is creative i was just coming up with some people on the spot, so no intentions of saying some people aren't creative and some are only technical.
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also something that forgot to add was that they could do comps that are called like style comp where you still get marked on technicality and such but instead of being mostly technicality a higher percentage of your score would be style, and so on for other categories.
 
13232019:steezy_doge said:
also something that forgot to add was that they could do comps that are called like style comp where you still get marked on technicality and such but instead of being mostly technicality a higher percentage of your score would be style, and so on for other categories.
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The biggest problem there is, what defines style? To me a incredibly tweaked switch cork5 is suuper stylish. But to someone else a triple 12 tweaked high mute could also be seen as stylish. Or on the complete other side someone else could see both of those as too technical and say that a huuuge floated hand drag 180 stale would win. It's a matter of perception, and perception is a hard thing to judge by.
 
13231014:Mr.Bishop said:
I quit judging for the most part around my beliefs on this issue. That zero you spoke of - if it was absolutely flawless - could beat a dub 10 no problem in my books. However without all the judges being on the same page you end up just really screwing up the results.
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13231877:Mr.Bishop said:
The B&E, nine nights, etc. are great examples of actually allowing the park builders to get weird - in conjunction with the athletes.
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Atj3Y.jpg


I think the traditional slopestyle format is more about introducing new participants, in a way that allows their parents to see it as an acceptable thing for their kid to do and allows the industry to start selling product to them.....I know how that sounds, but without it there wouldn't be any consumers or money for dudes like B&E to get paid doing what they do.

The guys pushing the limits of style & ability in skiing probably aren't the ones appealing to new skiers.....I mean, if we have to replay Phil's clips a few times to work out wtf just happened, chances are kids who aren't skiers yet aren't seeing it or aren't getting it.

But they see the 3 Olympic dudes on a Wheaties box and they see some Olympic clips on the news at 6 and BOOM they're in.....they'll find out about style & urban and all that down the road, but for now they're ON the road.

Screen-Shot-2014-02-13-at-10.53.12-PM.png


Soon as I saw this, I knew that Henrik gets this.
 
Just a thought, B-dog is saying that slopestyle is outdated and looking at the traditional format which most major comps are using (3 rails, 3 jumps etc) that's fair enough. But 2 of the biggest hookups this summer have been McRae to Saga and TWall going to Line- both of which show traditionally non-competition orientated brands looking to shift more into that scene. It may not be the most stylish aspect of skiing but at the end of the day, comps (and tv exposure) bring in the $$$ and its hard to change that
 
A tip for the future: if you want people to read your wall of text at least spell the title correctly.
 
13232200:Julius_Steezer said:
Just a thought, B-dog is saying that slopestyle is outdated and looking at the traditional format which most major comps are using (3 rails, 3 jumps etc) that's fair enough. But 2 of the biggest hookups this summer have been McRae to Saga and TWall going to Line- both of which show traditionally non-competition orientated brands looking to shift more into that scene. It may not be the most stylish aspect of skiing but at the end of the day, comps (and tv exposure) bring in the $$$ and its hard to change that
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Or comp skiers are trying to move to the creativity scene? ever think of that? Maybe wally wants to start doing more creative suff and doing film segments instead of throwing his body around on massive jumps hoping to god he doesn't re tear his ACL. I'm probably wrong though and you'll all probably tell me why I am
 
DISCLAIMER: I'm a Platinum-certified judge, and spent the summer re-writing and organizing the judging certification clinics. I do not, however, speak for all of the AFP. These are merely my opinions -- take them for just that.

I've noticed a lot of people talking about what the judges reward or discredit. This notion that judges (like myself, for example) don't care about style or execution is horseshit.

A lot of times, i see competitors, coaches, and spectators get hung up on one aspect of a whole run. Vinny always comes out blazing, and puts his own twist on just about everything that he peppers into a run. You see those bio 12 genie grabs, and it's bonkers. But what did he do in the rest of the run?

It's the same issue with this whole Dub 7 movement. I think it's an insane trick, and I know Brent Whipple has had some issues with our judging (Sun Valley Rev Tour last year), and his coach approached us and asked if we counted his 7 as a dub 7 thinking he should have won the comp. But there's more to a run than just one trick, and we judge the whole run. Same thing happened with Laker last year at Aspen Open. He crushed the jump portion of the course. I mean crushed it. Hands down the best of the day. But the rails weren't on par with the rest of the competitors. I think he ended up in fourth.

We have a solid crew of younger guys ((Jason, Pete, Jon Susman, etc.) judging alongside a very talented group of skiers that have been around competitive skiing since the beginning and I don't mean to speak for anyone else that judges, but we are focusing now more than ever on execution. Pete and Jason push the aesthetic, toned back aspect within their own skiing, and we want to see shit done proper in competitions.

But to hide behind this, "judges don't recognize style" thing is bullshit. Style is personal, and reflective of your surroundings: who you ski with, where you ski, and how you ski. Competition style is a very real construct. Can you honestly say that Bobby doesn't have style? Everything he does is calm, collected, and dialed. That's his style. If you don't dig it, you don't dig it. That's fine. But to say he doesn't deserve his podiums because someone else did a 9 tindy dripping with style where Bobby did a automatic right dub ten high mute just doesn't make sense to me.

What this all boils down to is there are multiple directions to take your skiing, and we're getting to a point where pursuing a park oriented career will force a skier to make a choice: competition vs. not. Obviously, there will be exceptions to this (Tom/Henrik/ABM), and those exceptions will be the mega-pros.

Our industry is developing, becoming more stratified, and ultimately more viable. This is a good thing. But it also means that you're favorite park skier, with the best carved cork five, double sevens, and switch dub wobbles might not have a chance in the traditional competitive setting.

I think that's good. It's good for the guy with every double both ways, and it's good for the guy dialing back his rotation count in favor of a more aesthetic approach.
 
13232500:e.will said:
DISCLAIMER: I'm a Platinum-certified judge, and spent the summer re-writing and organizing the judging certification clinics. I do not, however, speak for all of the AFP. These are merely my opinions -- take them for just that.

I've noticed a lot of people talking about what the judges reward or discredit. This notion that judges (like myself, for example) don't care about style or execution is horseshit.

A lot of times, i see competitors, coaches, and spectators get hung up on one aspect of a whole run. Vinny always comes out blazing, and puts his own twist on just about everything that he peppers into a run. You see those bio 12 genie grabs, and it's bonkers. But what did he do in the rest of the run?

It's the same issue with this whole Dub 7 movement. I think it's an insane trick, and I know Brent Whipple has had some issues with our judging (Sun Valley Rev Tour last year), and his coach approached us and asked if we counted his 7 as a dub 7 thinking he should have won the comp. But there's more to a run than just one trick, and we judge the whole run. Same thing happened with Laker last year at Aspen Open. He crushed the jump portion of the course. I mean crushed it. Hands down the best of the day. But the rails weren't on par with the rest of the competitors. I think he ended up in fourth.

We have a solid crew of younger guys ((Jason, Pete, Jon Susman, etc.) judging alongside a very talented group of skiers that have been around competitive skiing since the beginning and I don't mean to speak for anyone else that judges, but we are focusing now more than ever on execution. Pete and Jason push the aesthetic, toned back aspect within their own skiing, and we want to see shit done proper in competitions.

But to hide behind this, "judges don't recognize style" thing is bullshit. Style is personal, and reflective of your surroundings: who you ski with, where you ski, and how you ski. Competition style is a very real construct. Can you honestly say that Bobby doesn't have style? Everything he does is calm, collected, and dialed. That's his style. If you don't dig it, you don't dig it. That's fine. But to say he doesn't deserve his podiums because someone else did a 9 tindy dripping with style where Bobby did a automatic right dub ten high mute just doesn't make sense to me.

What this all boils down to is there are multiple directions to take your skiing, and we're getting to a point where pursuing a park oriented career will force a skier to make a choice: competition vs. not. Obviously, there will be exceptions to this (Tom/Henrik/ABM), and those exceptions will be the mega-pros.

Our industry is developing, becoming more stratified, and ultimately more viable. This is a good thing. But it also means that you're favorite park skier, with the best carved cork five, double sevens, and switch dub wobbles might not have a chance in the traditional competitive setting.

I think that's good. It's good for the guy with every double both ways, and it's good for the guy dialing back his rotation count in favor of a more aesthetic approach.
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*drops mic*
 
13232487:3_6media said:
Or comp skiers are trying to move to the creativity scene? ever think of that? Maybe wally wants to start doing more creative suff and doing film segments instead of throwing his body around on massive jumps hoping to god he doesn't re tear his ACL. I'm probably wrong though and you'll all probably tell me why I am
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yeah that could be right but at the end of the day, wally especially was already known for his filming (see the wallisch project for example). Whereas at the end of the day, line and saga will clearly get more exposure on tv whereas the athletes don't need to switch sponsors to film more. Look at jesper on head or keefer on atomic, being on a big brand doesn't stop you from filming
 
13230422:xRAPHAELx said:
usually people don't write stuff the is long. anything more than 5 lines will bring me to tears
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yeah, id start crying as well. must be a tough life as an idiot with comprehension.

I dont care if you have an opinion on skiing, you're allowed to have one, its just funny that hes a freeskier talking about how other realms of skiing aren't cool. Its fucking skiing, let people do whatever they want. no one is writing articles about b-dog saying he needs to rip the BC with poles or some shit. Live and let live. im tired of skiers talking about other skiers, and how they aren't doing it right. shut the fuck up and let them ski.
 
13231877:Mr.Bishop said:
Its actually a very interesting side argument to put some of this on the park builders....

I mean its super safe to build a slopestyle course that has all the typical elements... everything that you know will make a good contest.

It takes brass balls to build something different. In Europe they seem to give a lot of freedom (and money) to build shit that is just plain wacky.

The B&E, nine nights, etc. are great examples of actually allowing the park builders to get weird - in conjunction with the athletes.

I could easily debate that if you allowed the park builders to go nuts you could single-handedly save slopestyle.
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I don't think you'd have to debate. Truth is truth. Would be cool to build a 2 hit(less or more depending on what you hit) plaza with several different weird rail options. The standard shit and some gnar shit. Mic in some tranny that's big enough to dub if you really wanted to but perfect for laid out corks. Give people a whole day to film on it and then put the best tricks or best runs against each other.

Format might not work but I know sometimes the jam formats aren't very long in xgames and other big comps. You get maybe 5 tries. Would be cool if you had plenty of time to throw something, take a break, get your head straight and regroup if you weren't landing a trick. Maybe that would be super boring for people to watch but I hate when I see a slopestyle course with a really cool option that either nobody hits, lands anything sick on, or somebody is trying something insane but just doesn't have enough tries in there 2-3 runs.

If you had it jam format with unlimited tried in a couple hours and the tricks were filmed you could get around having judges sit there and get tired say fuck it and get drunk. People would have their best stuff on film. Have a few cameras on the course mounted or camera men to capture or both, maybe even athlete supplied filmers in addition. Would just be cool to see something sick built, and then have the skiers have the time and the relaxed atmosphere to really learn the ins and outs of the setups, find some ridiculous lines, and land some ridiculous tricks.

Like mtns that have a skatepark style flow in their park with weird options, rails set up at angles, and just a strange flow. When you first take a stab you might get lost, and probably don't have the flow dialed. Then you go back a few weeks later and kids are just flowing the whole thing with style, trying crazy shit you didn't and maybe even the park crew didn't think of.

Maybe that goes again the basis of a contest to not have a very limited amount of runs and a ton of pressure to make it happen. To me that would be sick as fuck though.

Would give the builders and the riders a lot of freedom, and at least in my thoughts deliver some next level riding.

That might be lame to someone else but that's my dream comp right there.
 
13232548:DeebieSkeebies said:
yeah, id start crying as well. must be a tough life as an idiot with comprehension.

I dont care if you have an opinion on skiing, you're allowed to have one, its just funny that hes a freeskier talking about how other realms of skiing aren't cool. Its fucking skiing, let people do whatever they want. no one is writing articles about b-dog saying he needs to rip the BC with poles or some shit. Live and let live. im tired of skiers talking about other skiers, and how they aren't doing it right. shut the fuck up and let them ski.
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*no reading comprehension. oh man, i fucked that one up.

but for real, Bdog should just shut the fuck up and worry about his own skiing.
 
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