If you can ski Moguls, You can ski ANYTHING

I disagree, Ive seen mogul skiers that fly down mogul runs and are even looking towards getting into national teams who cannot ski properly outside the park/bumps. Race training is where its at if you want to improve your big mountain. Especially basic things like foundation and technique training. Sure there are mogul skiers who are unbelievably amazing at everything, but it isnt the moguls that make them good.
 
Really?! I find that hard to beieve... Sking moguls to the point where you are good at them is going to 1.) get your balance on point 2.) get your weight foreward 3.) give you excellent speed control through edging 4.) dramatically increase reaction time. I think that to ski moguls properly you have to be a well rounded skier.
 
bumb, i ski on a freestyle team even tho i consider my self a freeride skier. the coaching just helps with my body awarness, they helop you understand how to throw tricks with alot more style because you have better understanding on how the trick actually works. your not just hucking your self into the air and hoping for the best

tanner rainville also skied bumps, i compeated with him once before he turned to park
 
I think you missed his point bro. He was talking about body awareness and understanding of how rotations and such in the air work... he never said that park and bump skiing have the same style
 
Wow, what a misguided post.

Of course mogul skiing at a competitive level has an inherent risk of knee injury, but that is true of EVERY type of high level skiing. Learning to ski moguls properly (with effective absorption) is no harder on the knees than any other type of skiing (although it can be much more of an anaerobic workout).

A good mogul skier uses absorption and is actually diminishing the pressure on their knees, as opposed to say a gs race turn where the pressure will be intensified throughout the turn.

Yes, hacks who don't know how to ski moguls will pound the shit out of their knees, but that is because they are not doing it properly.
 
Not all mogul skiers do pencil spins with their arms out, watch someone like Mike Henitiuk sometime, who does super sick 7 mutes and cork 10s. Or watch Toby Dawsons run from the last Olympics (cork 7 tail grab).

I would venture a guess that Henitiuks style in his mogul air tricks, is comparable to most of this site when they are in the park.
 
^^ good post, i hate it how everyone thinks that moguls kill your knees, they only do if you don't know how to ski them.

btw, killer icon, thats one of the best movies of all time!
 
no...after 10 or more years of heavy competetive mogul skiing your knees will be alot more damaged then they would be if you had not done moguls. you can be ignorant all you want and you can think that im being ignorant but it does damage your knees.
 
i think matts more saying that its blown out of proportion the effect it has on your knees
anything thats hard consistent impact will have an effect on you body over time. park skiing and cliff jumping is exactly the same. over a long period of time, it WILL start to wear on your body, as will mogul skiing. but being a good mogul skier minimalizes that damage, as does being a good park skier, cliff dropper, or anything else along those lines.
yes it will wear, but not as much as it maybe should because of solid technique.
and no more than many other popular forms of skiing.
 
i agreed with you at first, but thats not true at all, maybe im just sticking up for racing because thats what i grew up with, but c'mon man

bump skiers are good to an extent, but for pow they are both gnarly

ive seen both racers and bump skiers rip pow, but ive also seen my fair share or bad ones from both sides too

but when it comes down too it, id rather come from a racing background, because i can also ski bumps, pow, and groomers

MOST mogul skiers ive seen just come flying down a trail with their knees together wiggling their asses which pisses me off, everyone no matter what, to call yourself a good skier should be able to CARVE a turn, along with many other things

i dont hate bump skiers (much respect) but some just cant, some just ski bumps and thats it,

and some racers only race, but some freestyle ski too (much respect)

and hey, not all kids that race are rich, definitely some are but not all, same exact thing with bump skiers,

but hey, maybe its just my mountain

 
Henitiuk still skis moguls and he slays. Hes on BC team. Im on Ontario team and we trained with them this summer. He pulls 7 mute and cork 10 and his actualy bump skiing is unreal. Hes the man for doing both
 
"10 or more years of heavy competitive" ski racing will also wear and tear your knees, in many cases worse than moguls. Same could be said for 10 or more years of park skiing at a heavy competitive level.

If you learn proper technique, mogul skiing does not damage your knees any more than any other type of skiing.
 
Moguls, racing, etc isn't really the point I'm trying to make but learning to ski properly before throwing yourself off booters and rails is definitely a good idea that a lot of kidds don't seem to want to do. I've been snowboarding a little lately just to try something new and because I have broken skis just now and have tried a few kickers and rails. Totally sketchy, I didn't like it too much.

I never had any training or whatever on skis, just lessons from 5 to 8 then recreational skiing to a pretty high standard until maybe 14 when I got into freestyle. Without a doubt that helped my freestyle a lot. I know some young kids who can throw switch 5s but can barely ski, it's pretty scary. It's going to be weird in the next 5 years to potentially see pros who know nothing but freestyle.
 
All the points you mentioned are far greater enhanced by race training than mogul training. Especially point 3.

Bumps skiers dont use their edges to the full potential which spoils technique in the pow. Its all about legs together, impact, impact, impact.

Look at all the best big mountain skiers, Seth Morisson, Shane McConkey, Hugo Harisson, Manu Gaidet, all ex racers. Also compare Scott Schmidt to Glen Plake (racer to mogul skier) Scott was a way better skier on the ground. Plake just through himself off more stuff and had the image to go with it.

Then again, this argument has reigned for many years, way before the invention of twintips. Mogul skiers thought racers were gay and vice verser.

Honestly, if you want to be a better skier, go in for some race training.

 
Being a good mogul skier obviously helps with some parts of skiing, ie. pressure control, upper - lower body separation and what not. But I think a much more accurate title for this thread would be "If you can rip the shit out of an icy racecourse, you can ski ANYTHING". It's not complicated at all, skiing downhill or super G is remarkably similar to shredding a sick big mountain pow line.

However, I do agree with everyone's comments about how skiing park isn't skiing, but only to some degree. I have seen some really good park skiers that also ski really well everywhere else, but then there's the odd kid who can throw his shit down in the air but can't even carve a decent turn after.
 
Dude, thats retarded. straight up.
If you thing mogul skier cant hold an edge, obviously you cant ski moguls or never have been coached on them. I remember when i was still shredin bumps it was 2-3 hours of flats and edging drills with my coach before we could even ski by the mogul course. the thing about mogul training, is you do some crossover training (racing drills). Racers don't do any crossover training that has to do with moguls becuse most of the coach's are still stuck up old pricks. Im not hate'n on the actual sport of racing, I think its crazy and takes Unreal skill to pull it off. I just have a major problem with F.I.S race program, there all a bunch of stuck up old men stuck in the past. I cant even count the number of times I have been kicked off the mountain by ski patrol, because of Racing coaches.
 
moguls don't fuck your knees up. yes, if you train them for years on end, and go 100 mph it wears them out, but it doesn't hurt them any less than over shooting jumps in the park. he is not saying that you have to kill it in the bumps, just knowing HOW to ski them and using your edges helps skiing. and knowing how consists of absorbing and carving turns on the back side of each bump. so to say that mogul skiers don't use their edges to their full potential is bs. skiing moguls with out a doubt helps with everything else in skiing. back country and powder is very similar to skiing bumps in that you have to be light on your feet yet still be forward and aggressive.

ski racing helps BC skiing with being able to handle speed. when doing speed events in racing, you need to stay in a tuck and go fast and use your edges efficiently, while coping with bumps and ruts around the gates. besides the tuck, exactly the same thing as a run out after a big line or cliff.
 
dude, your retarded. straight up. your hating so hard on racers its not even funny, jokin around is fine but c'mon, dont be such a dick, your probably just mad because hes right and your wrong, both racing and bump skiing are progressive sports and both help towards pow or park etc. a lot of racers do ski bumps actually if you ever talked to one, and ya their are a lot of stuck up old pricks in f.i.s. but not all racing coaches are, so chill your chode

 
i say you learn on regular mountain adn then park...i was with some lil 8 years olds last season, and they couldnt ski a single true run with me to the park...they had to go straight there,....
 
This is a completely biased opinion. Rich ass parents bought them? skiing moguls aint exactly a cheap sport either. I'm pretty sure they both require "rich ass parents".

Anyways, I dont think if I gave a mogul skier that setup they would own anymore than a racer. I think the racer would actually do better. They have better body position, and can move their body across the fall line and around the hill. skiing bumps is pretty much just going straight downhill.

Racers also have to know how to adapt to new kinds of terrain in a sense, i.e., different degrees of steepness, turning, and going fast. You ski fast skiing power, mostly, and have to know how to turn and carve your skis.

I'm not trying to discredit skiing bumps, I have never done it, and people don't do a whole lot of it where I come from. But people do race. I raced for a long time and we would train in pow. skiing powder is useful in training for racing, and its a whole lot more fun than racing.

We also used to train by skiing backwards when I was little, to keep forward boot pressure. We would also ski without poles to learn where to keep our hands, and we would do surface 360s and such to learn other stuff. These things all gave me a real good background to build upon for the kind of skiing I do now.

 
wow are you guys really arguing about if racing or moguls is cooler??? you sound like some 50 year old gapers. who gives a shit if racing or moguls gives you better carving technique, fuck that, carve however you want, im sure some ass hole racer jock would say i have terrible stance and technique, and thats how i want it. ski however you want. there is a reason why we freestyle ski instead of race. racing is for people who want a shit ton of structure, no fun, all about winning, training, and where one way is the only good way, there is no creativity or individuality in racing. its for jocks.
its bad enough that ski racing is even considered similar to newschool skiing.
i didnt race or do moguls and i am soooo glad, id be pissed if i had to live with knowing that my style and love of skiing started with something so structured and limited.

fuck racing and moguls!!!
 
My concern with all these park rats is where do they ski when they're 30? We need to keep these kids interested in the whole mountain for the sake of the sport.
 
Nobody is telling you how to ski, we will just laugh at your gayper ass stuck in the powder as we get to lap around again.

 
I can't believe the people that say fuck moguls and racing. Those people are just ignorant. Lots of pro skiers come from a mogul or racing background. Mike Douglas the guy that invented this shit used to ski moguls. I used to race and after training I would ski mogul runs for fun. Besides powder I thought moguls were the best. I know for a fact that if I hadn't raced or skied moguls I wouldn't be near as good of a skier as I am today.
 
i ski powder all the time, and i do great, hell im sure i could do better than most the racers out there. im not just a huge park rat, ive been skiing since i was 3, i only took lessons till i could get down greens, then i figured everything out on my own after than no lessons or racing or mogul racing. and i like it much better, my skiing matches me, not some racer coaches definition of proper skiing, and thats how freestyle skiing should be, thats why its FREESTYLE. racing is a whole different sport.

yeah i mostly ski park, but out of about 120 days this year, about 40 were full powder days, and like another 20 were spent half in the ok pow, and half in the park. then the rest were park days. and thats how ive always spent my days. if there is powder i ski it, if there is only a little i spend half the day in the park and half in powder.
ive got a friend from jackson at my school, and he grew up racing there, and started freestyle about 3 or 4 years ago, and he kept talking about how he could do crazy shit and how good he was at backcountry, then the first time i skiied with him in powder, me and my other friends were doing much much better, he looked like some 50 year old from the 80's doing slow slalom like turns, and everytime he tried to charge or do big carves and slashes or drop small 15 foot cliffs he either couldnt do it or it was terrble looking.

so im just saying just because all you guys think your the shit for spending 15 years in a spandex with some 50 year old coach telling you exactly how he thinks you should ski, it doesnt make you suddenly better than everyone else.
you all sound just like any other racer jock bitching about form and proper carves and all that bullshit. there is not one good way to ski, everyone has their own style.
half the park rats your talking about cant ski pow cause they started like 4 years ago when they were like 18 or something and didnt want to waste their time learning everything there is to learn about skiing before doing park. and thats fine.
and some of the park rats i know are like me and grew up just skiing all over the place and ended up in the park.
half the "park rats" out there could destroy any racer in the backcountry any day.
 
Not true. Daren Rahlves is a racer...Can't think of any park rat that could school him in the backcountry....

But on topic, I did both raceing and freestyle. Racing definetly will give you a better background for skiing pow, but moguls gives you alot more comfort on your skis. Plus freestyle you really learn how to set yourself in the air and that helps so much for park...
 
XtRemE11 you have no idea. Half of the park rats can destroy any racer in the backcountry??? That is such an ignorant statement. Racing and mogul training give you a solid background that will make you a better skier no matter what kind of skiing you do.

Maybe a skier that raced but has never skied backcountry/powder might not kill it his first day. But if you take someone with 5 years of race training thats never skied backdountry or someone who's skied 5 pears of park with not backcountry I think the racer would pick up backcountry much faster... there's not questison. While you might not agree with the way racer dress or act you have to be ignorant to think 15 years of race training wouldn't make you an excellent skier- no mattter what kind of skiing you do.
 
i mean the park rats that grew up skiing backcountry and the whole mountain before they discovered the park, not the park rats that started like 3 years ago in the park.
 
Those people are not park rats. Those people are people who enjoy park, perhaps more than the mountain, but they will always have a love for it since it's what they grew up doing. After all, NOTHING beats a day of freshies and/or a big powder boote session.
 
Probably a mogul skier. With racing you learn how to stay balanced and in control in many different conditions. Mogul skiers learn how to slide their skis into moguls. 95% of the mogul skiers that i see slide every turn, and really don't know how to ski anyway else. If you were to take an average mogul skier and an average racer and stick them on top of a back country run, the racer would be much more in control resulting in fewer falls. In racing you deal with very challenging terrain that varies throughout a run, plus they have to adjust to different course conditions. A mogul skier faces basically the exact same terrain every run. in the backcountry you need to be able to adjust to different conditions and different terrain just like you do in racing. Skiing the backcountry is very similar to racing except without any gates.
 
I'm sorry. But that is just wrong.

Mogul skiers are trained to move their ass down a uniform hill, over uniform terrain. racers have to learn to find a line, where to use their edges, how to hold their body, and how to go fast in a turn, and be where they want to be on the mountain.

I don't know much about mogul skiing, but I do know it takes a lot of skill, and the people that do it are talented.

Arguing about who does better is pretty pointless, it reminds me of the thread about "whats harder, backcountry or terrain park". It is impossible to answer because it depends on the tenacity of the skier. Some people are going to push it harder, and figure it out faster, and want it more, reguardless of their skiing background.

But if you ask me, and many other people, racing gives you the fundamentals and experience that greatly benefits skiing anywhere, especially powder.

 
Skiing moguls makes your skiing look bomb and helps you ski everything else much better. Ski racing can help your skiing but makes your skiing look kinda bad on other parts of the mountain. I agree, the younger generation can kill it in the park but they have nothing in big mountain or moguls.
 
i agree. i feel like the first generation of park riders were really able to advance quickly because they had loads of skiing experience and were looking for something to test their limits. when you have kids who are maybe 6 or 7 (old enough to know what they want and to be influenced by "the crowd" whereas kids who start younger are more shaped by skiing with their parents etc) who go to a mountain and sit and whine all day that they want to ski the park, and then spend all their time skiing park, they definitely miss out on the full experience. a small percentage of them turn out to be insane all-around skiers and really great park skiers by the time theyre like 15. the rest, who either dont ski as much or arent as naturally gifted, really tend to lag behind.
 
15 is a little young to be a great skier at both all-mountain and park. Hell, I quit racing when I was 13 and didn't ski the park/do park comps until last year (I'm 17 now) and I consider myself to be an above-average park skier, and a pretty good big mountain/all-mountain skier since it's what I did for such a long time. Basically there are VERY few kids that will be "insane" all mountain-skiers and great park skiers at the same time.

So to the arguing again: Racing made me into who I am, I will still have fun ripping down the race course or just a steep groomer and go edge to edge and feel the flow. Yet, seeing your landing come around on a rodeo 5 and feeling the grab just stick is another feeling that's just AS fun as ripping it down a groomer, but powder tops all :)

If I didn't have racing and just moguls I wouldn't be able to ski everywhere on my mountain. It would just be too difficult if you didn't have the right edge-to-edge technique or the speed sense that racers are taught.

Now to play devil's advocate with myself, I don't think you can ski ANYTHING if you're a racer, mogul skier, or just a park skier, or a big mountain junkie. I mean, sure you might be able to hit all the jumps but you wouldn't be able to do anything off of them that was impressive, nor if you were a park skier would you be able to shred a gnarly line that scares the shit (literally at times) out of the big mountain chargers. Mogul skiers will have slight advantage in park, and racers will have the advantage in the BC. That's that.
 
i think you kind of knew what i meant. maybe insane and great were overly potent words to use, but still.

and as a racer myself i agree that being able to carve a real turn has benefits everywhere, including setting up basic form to learn bump skiing.
 


Guess what all these skiers have in common

Candide

Pep Fujas

Tanner Hall

JP Aclair

JF Clusson

Dave Crichton

Josh Bibby

TJ Shiller

Simon Dumont

CR Johnson

Steele Spence

Rory Bushfield

Sarah Burke

Mike Clark

Mike Henitiuk

Kristi Leskinen

Shane Szocs

Anthony Boronowski

Glenn Plake

Mike Douglas

Peter Olenik

Vincent Dorion

All 3 Phils

Mark Abma

Brad Holmes

Travis Redd

Henrik Winstead

Tim Rusell

Shane Mckonkey

That's right they all have competed and trained as MOGUL SKIERS. I don't think this is just a fluke.That's pretty much a who's who of freeskiing. I think some of you mogul haters (which includes some of the skiers on this list) should be a little more appreciative of the people and sport that helped get this thing rolling.
 
i thought sarah burke did aerials.... but i could be wrong. other than that id say that is a very comprehensive list. good job to you. i must admit though, nothing makes me smile more than watching park rats throw shifties and japans and then watch a racer kid in tights throw a 7. always a 7.
 
^^ um, i don't race but i bet if the made the same list of pro skiers that raced it would be just as long as impressive.

and just to add another perspective to this whole debate, i am entirely a park skiier and i havn't had any formal training except maybe a few lessons when i was a kid. But i don't think it would be an overstatement to say that im just as adept at shredding all mountain as my also park skier friends that raced for many years as a kids. I mean im sure i would lose to them at a race with gates but as far as everything else id say we are about equal (but im still the best at park :)
 
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