I will hang for saying this, but....

If we raise the driving age, we should lower the drinking age too.

Though I'm not sure the driving age needs to be changed. But rather that they make driving tests significantly harder. No offense intended to anyone here, but you have to be completely inept to fail one of those things. There are plenty of hazardous and shitty drivers that are well over the age of 18. If you screw up, you should have to take the test over until you get it right. If you really screw up and already have your license, it should be taken away and you should be forced to go to classes and retake the tests.
 
i agree, you make many valid points

but maybe 17 would be better to start off with, i dunno

16 does seem young though

and i hope you read this travis...

 
i was a good driver from the day i got my license.......seriously, driving is not fucking rocket science........

dont got to fast, be curtious to others on the road, blah blah blah

only law i ever broke was driving kids in the 6 months period in mass

other than that ive never had a ticket or anything, never been in an accident

driving isnt about maturity to me, its jsut about fucking commmon sense

i know some 14 year olds i would trust to drive and some 30 years olds i wouldnt
 
Maybe 17, but not 18. Can you imagine going to college and not knowing how to drive? I think this is a basic skill you MUST learn while living with your parents. For those living in rural areas driving is crucial. If kids couldn't get their licenses till they're 18 it would be the death of extra-curricular activities, to some extent.
 
After reading this through it really is just me talking on and on so just go ahead and skip my rant if you want but if you got nothing better to do go ahead and read...

I disagree with your idea...I am still on my permit and I can drive just fine. I'm never speeding more than 5 miles over the limit just because I know what can happen if you abuse your license (I had a friend die somewhat recently from a car crash that was the drivers fault). I won't say I'm a really good driver but I know that I am a better driver than a lot of people that have had there license for a while. I think that there should be stricter limits on licenses and permits because I personally don't think that getting a 70% on your test should give you the right to get behind the wheel even with a parent. There are a ton of people that are really bad drivers that are over 21 and generally crashes involving kids don't happen because the kids are inexperienced (even though I understand that some situations could be avoided with more experience behind the wheel) but that they are showing off. Once kids get their license there is apparently a NEED to show their friends how fast their shitty $500 car can go. I don't understand it and probably never will because I would never risk my life or someone elses life for that. My friend that died was in the passenger seat and the driver walked away so they have to live with the fact that they killed their friend just because he was showing off...I could never be able to live with that and I wouldn't want to endanger myself for something that stupid.

Sorry just my rant...
 
i think part of it depends on where you live, driving in MA and NJ is alot different (and worse) than new hampshire and vermont.
 
can i just say that this is a prime example of people hopping on the bandwagon and pretending to be mature. I guarantee that if the topic of discussion was "damn 18 is way too high of an age to drive" , or "driving bullshit" and someone was complaining about how gay it would be if their state raised the age for driving to 18 (lets pretend) and some mildly respected NS member came on and posted in favor of the thread creator's idea, the majority of responses would support that opinion. It happens all the time on here but i just thought that i would point it out now.

Also, he does raise good points about driving and it made me reconsider my own driving habits, but i still disagree with him. Some kids are in college when their 18 or 19. They're going to need cars. And how would kids get anywhere. Parents can't take them to everything (well they have all our lives but c'mon driving a 17 year old home at 1 in the morning from a party is a stretch), i find that it has made my parents lives much easier as well as made mine more fun.
 
SALIDA, Colo. -- [/b]A 17-year-old Salida girl is dead after a two vehicle crash in Chaffee County.

The Colorado State Patrol said Sheree Miller was killed in a Tuesday

morning crash between a Mazda Protege and a Ford F350 along U.S.

Highway 285 about 2 miles north of the summit of Poncha Pass.

Authorities said Miller was riding in the Mazda when the 17-year-old

driver lost control and went into a spin at about 8:30 a.m. The car

slid into the southbound lanes where the Ford flatbed truck struck it

on the passenger side.

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Miller died at the scene. The 17-year-old driver was taken to a Salida hospital before being airlifted to Denver. His name and condition have not been released. The driver of the truck, James Fesing, 45, of Larkspur, Colo., was not hurt.Colorado State Trooper Sam Trujillo said excessive speed is suspected as a contributing factor in the wreck.
 
SALIDA, Colo. -- [/b]A 17-year-old Salida girl is dead after a two vehicle crash in Chaffee County.

The Colorado State Patrol said Sheree Miller was killed in a Tuesday

morning crash between a Mazda Protege and a Ford F350 along U.S.

Highway 285 about 2 miles north of the summit of Poncha Pass.

Authorities said Miller was riding in the Mazda when the 17-year-old

driver lost control and went into a spin at about 8:30 a.m. The car

slid into the southbound lanes where the Ford flatbed truck struck it

on the passenger side.

Miller died at the scene. The 17-year-old driver was taken to a Salida hospital before being airlifted to Denver. His name and condition have not been released. The driver of the truck, James Fesing, 45, of Larkspur, Colo., was not hurt.Colorado State Trooper Sam Trujillo said excessive speed is suspected as a contributing factor in the wreck.
 
The whole teens need cars for the parents sake is the downfall of the idea. I never thought about college, I'm one of the older ones so its a non issue. I would say all things considered 17 is realistic.
 
WORD, i cant agree with you more. like at 16 i was deffinately ready to start driving, and i'm not just saying that. driving on my permit i was better than half the people out there driving. but then in health we watched a video of people that were driving at 16 and i was like HOLY FUCKING SHIT. it made me scared to be on the road with those dumbshits, blowing stop signs, texting while going like 60 around a corner, ALL WHEN THEY KNEW THEY HAD A CAMERA IN THIER CAR??!? like what the fuck? those people should not have had thier licences. But i am 17 now, i have an SRT-4 so of coarse i get in my fair share of street races, but i wont race in our town, and if its a friend of mine and we are doing it for fun we either go to a track or we go to this one highway where you can go down and scope out the other side for cops, then hit a light and bust a U-turn and then hit up like a 40 mph roll with no traffic, no cops and your straight. could things still go wrong? yes, but i'm pretty experianced, i'm responsible and smart when it comes to driving, but i totally agree there should be like a maturity test or something.

One other point, i think people that have riden quads or dirtbikes or something are way better at driving. just because you develope the motor skills and are used to it. someone from the city that hasnt moved faster than a walk under thier own power will feel completely uncomfortable. you need to see, think, and react to objects, traffic, and signals. but anyway, keep it real niggas.
 
to become a good driver you need to learn how to drive a stick shift. once you learn you will be more in control of the car. i drive a stick and am really aware of my surrounding and its super fun at the same time.
 
Okay, I am 16. almost 17 and I totally agree with you. Kids I drive with are retarded and have no idea what they are doing. shortly after I got my license I got a job in the summer where I was driving all day and became very aware of everything. I learned many things that people will never lear. I can back up a trailer almost perfectly and haul one on the free way with no problem. I can't say that for my friends who can't even back into a parking spot. It is just ridiculous that kids think that they are the greatest drivers and then speed every where and swerve in between cars. I rarely speed...I hate it, and I am sick of drivers on the road who think they know what they are doing because they are older then me..but all they ever do is drive to and from work

16 is an okay driving age but it really should be raised to 18 where you have gained much more responsiblility...but that will not get rid of the dumbass drivers.
 
I like the idea of doing it on an individual basis. You can just have it done on road test day. Make the test twice as hard, if not ten times. It should require that you be confident but no arrogant in your vehicle. It should test your decision making skills, not just you ability to remember a known set of scenarios. Right now anybody can pass the road test, just drive like your 80, thats what I was told and I had no trouble. Also, require more behind the wheel training, I said it already but it needs to happen regardless of the age. I passed with 6 hours ALL TOTAL of driving practice, not counting the 6 hours of training. My parents signed off on having like 36 hours, 6 at night. You need to make sure kids have that experience, cause thats the key.

You will always be accident prone for a year, just because thats how it is. If you make sure that people attain a certain maturity level before they enter that accident prone time they are better prepared to handle it.
 
Here is my story of the little driving experience i have...

I'm currently 17, i got my license June 23, 2006, 5 days after my 16th birthday. I didn't have my own car but getting one was all that was on my mind. Finally about 3 weeks after i got my license my father helped me out with purchasing one. It was and still currently is a 2002 Acura RSX that I bought off of Ebay. I live in Ohio yet the car was in Florida. So my dad flew down a few days later and drove it back. It was about a 3 hour flight and a 18 hour drive. He stopped in a rest area for a 3 hour sleep. He pulled in my driveway around noon on a Saturday. I was so excited yet he didn't allow me to drive it till I cleaned it inside and out. After about 5 hours of continues cleaning and washing I finally took the car out for a drive. My friend also happened to get his first car on the same day so we took off in our "new" cars for a few hours. For the next 30 days or so everything was smooth. I was the first in my grade to get their license let alone have their own car. My car is nothing amazing but its one of the nicer cars at my school. On August 27th, 2006 I was driving on some "S" curves, it was a slightly damp Sunday and I was on my way home from work. I had never driven this road before but I had ridden on it a few times. On the second curve the recommended speed was 25mph, I am unsure of my speed but I would guess it was 55mph. I took the curve my front end began heading towards the inside of the curve while my back end began heading towards the outside, I then over corrected and shot across the other lane into the opposite ditch. I backed my car out and began continuing on my way home. I then made the call to my father to let him know of the mistake I had just made. He was incredibly mad. When I pulled into my driveway and put my car in park the look on his face was the look you would get from a parent who you trusted you with their life and you just let them down. I was furious with myself. I got out the car and we began looking at the damage, my dad guessed that it was about $2500 in damage.

I will continue my story tomorrow because I didnt realize the length of it when I began typing and I have some spanish homework to attend to. Sorry about the length and thanks for reading.

 
^^^the rest of my story includes the resolution to my 1st accident, a few close encounters, my 2nd accident, a few storys from friends, and my current situation which is the resolution to the 2nd crash^^^
 
my parents have been saying for years that the drinking age and the dricing age should be flipped.. that way by the time ur able to drive you wont have to chug liquor to have a good time like most american teens these days.. these facts arent 100% cause i cant remeber but i think the rates of teen deaths in europe and other areas where kids are exposed to alcohol much younger are drastically lower for driving and alcohol related deaths/mishaps. im not sure whether a 21 year old drivers license law would work but surley a 16 alcohol 19 or 20 drivers license would be fine with me.
 
That's a really good example of one of the lessons most people have to learn the hard way. You have to know the road and your vehicle really well if you're going to even consider risky stuff like hauling ass around corners. You got out ok, some people do not. You learned your lesson, some people (kid I know who rolled twice in the same spot) do not.
 
The part I quoted is so true.

I see people do retarded things driving all the time. During the winter, on a slick overpass 2 winters ago, I saw some woman trailbrake heavily on an turning overpass. I was coming towards her, saw he nose dive when she was braking and KNEW what was going to happen. Sure enough, the back end shot out and she swerved across the road and blasted into the overpass guardrail.

I was already completely stopped by the time she impacted the guardrail because I knew she was going to lose it because she did exactly what you never do in limited traction situations, which is brake in a turn.

I have been autocrossing since I was 18 years old, and that benefits me in so many ways. Firt off, it gets aggresive driving out of my system in a safe, legal environment. Secondly, you learn the actual limits of your car, AND your ability. Even small things like a deer running in front of your car, which could cause serious injury and damage, can better be avoided. You learn what you can and cannot do with your car in emergency situations, and I've found it makes me a more defensive driver on the streets.

"What is Solo II?

"Solo II is a precision sport, much like, say, archery, riflery or golf. You must be precise and consistent, all the while driving so fast you can barely concentrate" -- Mark Sirota

Solo II events (also known as autocrosses) are an all forward motion driving skill contest. Each driver is individually timed to the thousandth of a second, over a short, miniature road course clearly defined using traffic cones. Cars compete one at a time, hence the name "Solo", in a class with similar cars. An event can be held on any flat paved surface, usually a parking lot, or airport apron or runway.

Solo II emphasizes driver skill and vehicle handling rather than just speed. The corners are tight, and there are lots of them, so the driving is exciting and challenging. Solo II speeds do not exceed those normally encountered in highway driving. (This is the main difference between Solo II and Solo I; where much higher speeds are attained)

The skills you learn and practice here; smooth transitions, enhanced braking, and skid correction, will have an immediate impact on improving the safety and skill of your street driving. Solo II is an excellent way to teach car control to young drivers in a safe environment."

http://www.tirerack.com/features/solo2/handbook.htm

If you have an local SCCA club in your region, go participate in one no matter what kind of car you own (as long as it's safe to drive, and no SUV's due to the rollover risk). I started in a 1992 Toyota Camry. Noone will laugh at you, and you will have a blast while learning a ton.
 
I think some people are ready for driving more than others. I think maybe the drive test to get your license should be longer and they should be more strict about it. I also think that parents really need to help their kids and make them drive as much as possible when they have their permit because parents in the car is what teaches the kids.

I've been driving 2 years and like 3 months...no accidents no tickets...its really not that hard to avoid shit.
 
This is kinda deep, and its really close to home for me, so fags, please don't quote.

I was driving from school on a side street past an apartment complex. Next to this our community center. I come to the block the CCC (Cannon Comm Center) is on and there are two vehicles stopped in the middle of the road. An officer in an unmarked car is directing/holding off traffic. I make a turn to go around the main drag on the other side. There is a fire rescue vehicle in the parking lot, an ambulance, a white car, and a squad car in the alley. I keep going. Get back to school to chill before the volleyball game and thee kids come down the same side street, park, get out, and tell me all about.

Person A was riding on Person B's hood when person B hit the brakes, throwing Person A off. Person B at some point put the car in drive and hit him. I don't understand the exact circumstance and am not going to comment on how exactly it happened. He was taken by ambulance to the local hospital and airlifted. The news I am just hearing is that he is in ICU with broken ribs, a broken leg and a broken neck. No impressions will be made here regarding a prognosis. At first it looked bad. I talked to a witness who said that there were rumors he was not breathing when he left.

Last I heard Person B was in the back of a cop car. I dont think Person A's parents will press charges.

This is probably the scariest thing I can remember from all of highschool. You hear about accidents all the time, car rolls down bank with 6 kids in it, etc. This is nuts. I'm going to be looking at an empty desk tomorrow, in a class of 7 people. Now 6. District already called an emergency staff meeting for Friday AM. Somebody has to explain why two juniors are missing.

Person B plays the star role in our fall musical. He recently organized a band assembly, and he got a few bands together to play, and it was a canned food drive, admission is just that, canned food. He was the singer in the band behind it all. I guess it was his idea. He's not a bad kid at all, he just went from behind the wheel at the age of 16, into a really shitty spot. Imagine how he feels right now.

Now just think about that for a while. Let it sink in. Trust me, it wont really hit you until its YOU looking at that empty seat in class.

 
im not gonna bother reading the whole thing or any other post's. I think you are joke and your idea is a joke. "i never go more then 8 or 9 over the speed limit" how did you manage to hit a mailbox? I drive double the speed limit on a regular basis and i have no problems stopping what so ever. I have never been in an accident or hit anything. I live in central Saskatchewan (Prince Albert) and our roads suck major balls, especially in the winter. Our roads are never cleared of snow and are even more rarely salted so they are usually very slippery. I believe the reason for the lack of snow removal is the amount of $$$ the city spends on fucking hokey rinks. C'mon city council we don't need anymore. Clear our fucking streets. Last winter it got so bad in my part of town (one of the new developments in town) that my dad bought a big ass mother fucking snow plow and plows the streets off. We (my parents) pay the most taxes in the whole city and we pay to get other streets cleared. I have lived in this new house only one winter and they never did clear the road once. In my last house which was in the same development only about 4 years older, our roads were NEVER once cleared off. at the end of winter the road was so built up with ice it was higher then the curb into my driveway. You go 5 blocks down the hill to the ghetto, were i'm sure no one pays taxes, let alone own a vehicle, and the roads are perfect.

Another thing i would like to say is many of us have jobs. I definitely got sick of constantly saying "bye mom thanks for the ride" or "can you come pick me up now, i'm done" or "were done school now" The main reason i need my vehicle is in the summer to commute to and from the lake, I cant depend on my parents for rides due to conflicting work schedules. I have driving that highway every day for two summers, and i never once went slower then 130kmh and never once came even close to an accident. If you for some strange reason still like depending on you parents for that shit then go ahead and snap your keys off in your ignition and don't drive your car till your 18'th b-day were your parents can give you new keys for your car and the basement sweet they made for you so you can stay and live with theme for the rest of your life.
 
im 18 now so i realyl dont care, but i wasnt a bad driver i got one tiket while i was JOL and took it to court and one but that was over a year ago, and never been in accidnet. it really just depends on the person driving
 
^^wow that really sucks. some people can make mistakes that they will regret but its not just 16 year olds. Just a few weeks ago a 19 year old from town and his 17 year old girl friend were doing 120 in a 40 zone and it ended against a tree killing the female passenger. There is now hundreds of flowers surrounding this erea and she will be deeply missed by many. I personally never knew her but a few classmates of mine did. Its not just 16 year olds.
 
I was looking for mature responses. Don't just tell me that I'm wrong and you are right. I have a lot say to you, come back the right attitude and I'd like to have an intelligent discussion. You are the kind of person I wanted to talk to, somebody who strongly thinks I'm wrong, but you're not worth talking to.

I am not going to grace this with an sort of arguement, except to say this:

One of my classmates was just airlifted out of here because he was involved in a crash going less than 10mph. Things happen fast at 130k, and if you get whats coming to you I wont feel sorry for you.

And please go read my post. My main point is that teens think we are invincible behind the wheel. I'm as guilty as anybody. You are the kind of person who I'm talking about. Now please come back willing to act like a 16 year old at least (I dont give a rats ass how old you really are) so you can add something to my thread.
 
Your right its definitely not just young drivers, but the fact of the matter is when your a junior in HS those hit you harder than the ones on the freeway outside of town killing people you never knew. It really hits home when you see a person every day, and bam, ran over, in ICU someplace.

Update, he'll be fine. He's got a broken collar bone, among other things, and some burns that I guess are gnarly but hes been awake on drugs, back down now I guess.
 
im 17 and now i can drive on my own and its the best thing ever but all the stupid shit my friends do makes me think they should raise it to like 18-20
 
You are the exact type of person that should not be driving.

You may think you have no trouble stopping, and that nothing will happen if barrel down the highway

On dry roads, it takes an average mid-sized car 225 feet to stop from 55mph. Add a simple 10mph and bring that speed up to 65mph, and it's will take 316 feet to stop that similar class car.

Doing some simple math, stopping from 80mph will take somewhere in the range of 400-500+ feet to stop a mid-sized car in dry, perfect road conditions. This is all factoring in reaction time, btw.

You may think you are a good driver, and that you are safe in your little cage, but think about the facts. If you are 16-17, you in all likelihood do not have the skills or experience to make an emergency manuever if something happens in front of you at 80+ MPH.
 
I actually have avoided quit a few accidents at quit high speeds. I have been in cars since i was 5 or 6, driving on dirt roads, a small rally track, some trails and in small towns. My reactions happen instinctively (and no its not to just go rigid and push the brake through the floor and skid out of control). I have always gone fast with absolutely no problems what so ever.
 
#1: Agreed, except some kids have parents who can't drive for shit themselves. My dad is a great driver (my mom, on the other hand...) and when I was on my permit I had damn well better be a good driver too or I wasn't even gonna get to take the road test. Unfortunately that is not always the case.

#2: Kinda touched on that already. I could have passed that test with one eye open. Make people make some decisions, surprise them with the route so you can't memorize like I did.

And now, my very own creation

#3: Kids need to pull their heads out of their asses and realize that they are not invincible. They need to realize that they "are sitting on a time bomb" (drivers ed, haha) and if they aren't careful they're fucked.
 
i got my license when i was 16.5 and, not to cise myself or anything, but i think im a really responsible and safe driver. yeah, i sometimes go fast, but its within reason in safe spots. i respect other drivers, i dont tailgate or cut them off and let them in when they need to get in.

in order to help with the irresponsibility of dumb ass drivers, like girls i know who have totaled 3 cars, there needs to be a more extensive practice and teaching period/course, where they actually get good, before they just get lucky on passing a 30 minute test
 
well your just a regular Collin McCrae now arent you (R.I.P. by the way). thats great how good you think you are, and trust me, i think i'm good too, but there are some kids that have no idea what they are doing, what if one swerves in front of you on the highway or something, sometimes theres just nothing you can do when your going that speed.
 
i swear, people take more time to write shit like this on NS then they do in school essays. Bro, turn this into a teacher if you ever need a good grade.

all kidding aside tohugh, you point out some truths.
 
No you can get a private pilot's liscense at 16.  Commercial liscences take much longer to get and a hell of a lot of training.  Thank god too because I dont want a 16 year old flying me home from college.  But yea anyways I think that there needs to be a lot of consideration within the government about changing legal ages not only for driving, but in other situations too.  Personally I think its a little fucked up that a 16 year old can have the responsibility of driving a car when a lack of experience could lead to killing other people on the road, while still having to wait 5 years before he or she can even drink.
 
i'm real sorry that that happened and all but that has nothing to do with the fact that 16/17 year olds are too young to drive or not. that was just 2 kids being immature and stupid, that could have happened with anyone, regardless of age. i don't see how raising the driving age 1-2 years would prevent shit like this from happening.

i get my lisence in 3 weeks and i couldn't be more ready. i've had my permit for almost 6 months, and have driven for over 50 hours, finished all my drivers ed.. driving hours, and observing hours. i think the way that it is set up now is fine... look at massachusetts for instance..

-have to be 16 years old to get your permit

-have to have your permit for 6 months until you can get your license

-the first 6 months you have your lisence you cant drive other kids besides siblings/parents

-if you are pulled over for speeding and under 18 then you lose your lisence for 3 months, plus a fine
 
I think it really depends on the person, many people are ready to drive at 16 while many others are not. It's very hard to set a line where people think at least the majority of people can handle what they are doing. Also having your own car/license does take a lot of burden of many things teenagers do that their parents would have to drive them to. I don't think the driving age should be raised a year or 2 personally, I mean whats a year or 2 going to do? Your still in high school, or just out of it. It really depends on the person, are you a person that says, I can handle this no problem and speeds a little 10mph over. Or are you the person that says FAST and goes 30-40 over on a windy back road? Also you can be the person who drives the speed limit. Many things go into what makes 16 the driving age, not just the age it self. Maturity, intelligence, confidence and some other things can fit well into this decision. I think it should be kept the same because the only reason teen accidents would drop was because there will be less teen drivers.
 
maybe for the first 16 years of kids lives we could just teach them not to be retards that'd make everyone much better off.
 
Well most new drivers want to test the abilities of the cars they drive. They grew up with their parents driving like pansies and now they want to see what it's like to drive fast for a change. I did that for about the first month of having my liscence. Now that I've been driving for a while, I don't feel the need to do so anymore. Sure I do it once and a while just for fun I will floor it coming out of an intersection. But I try to take care of my car a little bit. I don't slam on the breaks, I come to a steady stop. Last year we had to change the break pads AND disks on our car (just worn out) and we couldn't get the disks off. They were mushed so hard into the axle. Even the brute force of a crowbar with me and my dad pulling on the crowbar couldn't get it to move. So we had to take it into the garage and they took it off. So no more slamming on the breaks for me!...Unless someone runs infront of me.
 
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