I want to move to Europe

L

localonvolkls

Member
Been toying with the idea of living and working for quite sometime. It seems as though most European countries with ski resorts have fairly if not unnecessarily strict visa requirements. I am a PSIA certified instructor but I understand this isn't worth dogshit in Europe. I understand I will need mucho doll hairs to get over there and get started and I'm sure its almost impossible to do but I don't want to give up yet. I was wondering if anyone had some words of advice or personal experiences they could share?
 
herro prease. i am ski instructor japan and we want hire you for rotta money. we arso have asian derivery service. prease carr us on cerrurar terriphone.
 
12949270:Mag said:
Where? Europe is as diverse as it gets.
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Well I would imagine he means somewhere in the EU with good skiing...I would imagine visas are pretty much the same across the board so just hearing about peoples experiences with anywhere would be a good start.

Definitely interested in this thread and is something I'm interested in doing, but visas are pretty tough I think.
 
I'm pretty sure that here in Austria, PSIA certification is plenty to find work as ski instructor. Specially in the west (Tyrol, Arlberg) there are tons of English/Swedish/Norwegian/you name it speaking people who spend the season here.

But let's be warned. It's neither easy nor good paid...

Just a week ago I've been sleeping over at an English friends place who works 6 nights a week till 4am as bartender to make a living.
 
I am no visa expert, but to me it doesn't seem that hard to get at least a seasons work here, seasonal work is plentiful. I would suggest trying to get a seasonal job and just get here to begin with. Once you're here, it should be easier to work out how to stay. What does it actually involve securing a working visa for the EU?
 
topic:localonvolkls said:
I am a PSIA certified instructor but I understand this isn't worth dogshit in Europe.
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I'm pretty sure you'll be able to teach with your PSIA anywhere in Europe except France.
 
For proper advice what's driving you towards Europe? Park, backcountry skiing, overall cultural experience or what? If it's just the first one then better stay where you are.

As others said France and Switzerland are the most restrictive for work permits although that does not mean not to give a shot at it too. But for the others - particulary Austria - you will find plenty of work opportunities as an instructor IF you apply timely enough during late summer/early fall, aren't overly picky with the job offer/destination and can live on a budget. Also expect things to work quite different from what you are used to back home so some flexibility is key.

There are specific pages for seasonal work where you can directly apply for an initial footprint. Once you made the move you can look for long term occupation if you decide to extend your stay beyond a season.
 
topic:localonvolkls said:
It seems as though most European countries with ski resorts have fairly if not unnecessarily strict visa requirements.
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You do realise the US has pretty much the toughest visa requirements in the world right...?

Pretty common for countries not to just hand out visas.
 
i just got back from a three month trip to france, i was trying to do the same thing as you but getting a visa is incredibly difficult and france is very strict with there whole ski instructor thing. So after that fell through i had no choice but to go jah bless, in total i spent around 6000 thats including plane tickets and my season pass. I lived right at the bottom of l'alpe d'huez which had some sick skiing but really tignes blew my mind, even got to see the b and e invitational at les arcs and that resort is fucking huge.

My advice to you is to devote as much time next winter into a euro trip take like a month to three month vacation and live at a ski resort you'll meet a lot of people, i have a list of contacts now and getting a job there seems possible because i remember what it felt like when i was in your position and its hard to even find where to start
 
The only Americans and Canadians I know have EU passports or don't work. Same deal as Europeans getting US visas; it's not going to happen.
 
12949632:DHogg said:
You do realise the US has pretty much the toughest visa requirements in the world right...?

Pretty common for countries not to just hand out visas.
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It really fucking sucks. All talk about immigration reform is all about Mexicans and illegals too, there is never anything mentioned about encouraging young foreigners to travel and work here which would really be ideal because then other countries would let Americans travel and work in their country for short periods. I really wish there was an American Working Holiday Visa we would only give to countries that would do the same for us. I reckon the EU/UK would definitely go for it.
 
Marry someone in the country you move to. Just don't let feds find out that it was a marriage based on convenience, not love, so you don't get in legal trouble.
 
12949835:Matt_D said:
It really fucking sucks. All talk about immigration reform is all about Mexicans and illegals too, there is never anything mentioned about encouraging young foreigners to travel and work here which would really be ideal because then other countries would let Americans travel and work in their country for short periods. I really wish there was an American Working Holiday Visa we would only give to countries that would do the same for us. I reckon the EU/UK would definitely go for it.
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Its too bad the US couldn't have separate visa laws for european and central american countries. If it wasn't for the damn central americans i'm positive the US would have more lenient visa laws.
 
12950372:philipc said:
Its too bad the US couldn't have separate visa laws for european and central american countries. If it wasn't for the damn central americans i'm positive the US would have more lenient visa laws.
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I mean there is no reason the can't have separate visa laws, or have visas that you can only apply to from certain countries.
 
Get a good job set up over here, not just an instructor job. Get something secure and you're set for the EU and Switzerland. You're in America. Why not move out west to Jackson or Montana? Parks here aren't as good and less snow than America really. DON'T believe the ski movies, average here in Switzerland is only 150-300cm base a year. What you see in TGR and that is freak storms, it's awesome terrain and awesome shredding, but what's honestly the point of coming over her when it's similar over there?
 
From what Ive heard thats not necessarily true. For the most part it is but their are regions over there that receive significantly more snowfall. Of course, I've heard these places are much less accessible and more sought after. Skiing is my life and I love everything about it. I just want to see where the culture started, plus I want to experience a broader selection of terrain. Skiing over there is on another level and thats where I want to take my skiing.
 
Canada has reciprocal exchange working holiday visas with a number of European countries - Germany, France, Italy, Norway, Spain, Poland, Sweden, Switzerland and a bunch of others. They're only valid for a year and you have to be under 30 to qualify, but I have a number of friends who have taken advantage of them.

Does the US have anything similar? If not it could be tough, most EU companies can't hire an American unless they demonstrate that nobody in the EU is qualified for the position.
 
12950876:localonvolkls said:
From what Ive heard thats not necessarily true. For the most part it is but their are regions over there that receive significantly more snowfall. Of course, I've heard these places are much less accessible and more sought after. Skiing is my life and I love everything about it. I just want to see where the culture started, plus I want to experience a broader selection of terrain. Skiing over there is on another level and thats where I want to take my skiing.
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Frankly, this doesn't make sense. Having skied on both continents there is nothing in Europe that even remotely compares to places like let's say Colorado's Summit County in terms of versatility and snow falls.

Versatility means you have excellent park, backcountry, mountaineering in or close to one place - you pretty much can't get it better than that. As Turkleton said parks are on an entirely different level in NA compared to Europe. Snow falls during an average season are up to twice as much with the quality often being much better due to lower moisture content. Also season in NA is usually 1-2 month longer since most resorts in the Alps are significantly lower elevated.

Sure, you can experience draughts in either place except maybe British Columbia and Alaska but they are more common in Europe. There's a good reason behind the rule of following the snow in the Alps - which you won't be doing often while stuck with a regular job to make a living.

BTW contrary to common belief skiing within Europe started in Norway, not the Alps. If your mind is still pregnant with the idea of relocating then better go for the overall cultural experience. In terms of skiing better abort.
 
Monday morning mindfuck? Late to the April fools party? Wow, hard to know even where to start.Europe (continent with >40% of the world's ski resorts) versus... Summit County (summit County)?? Are you fucking serious? Summit County? Versatility? I think what you mean is diversity, but in either case, what are you smoking over there? The only thing that Summit County will offer you that you won't get in Europe is legalised dope and overcrowded small flat ski resorts.

Diversity/Variety/Versatility. Let's take the French Alps for example. Let's say you're in Grenoble which would be the EU equivalent of SLC maybe. You can be anywhere from the Southern Alpes skiing within sight of the mediterranean sea all the way up to Chamonix in the shadow of the most dramatic lift accessed mountains in the world, all within 2 hours either way. And in between there would be well over 15 mega-resorts that destroy anything in North America in terms of vert, acreage and variety of terrain. Or there would be over 100 totally authentic under-the-radar mountains where you'd be skiing untracked pow 10 days after a storm, under the lifts. We haven't even got into Italy, Switz, Austria, Eastern Europe or the Pyrenees, summer skiing, MOUNTAINEERING??? That must've been a joke.

Granted, on average, Utah gets more snow, and better snow. Comparative data seems hard to come by, but I'd be very surprised if Summit gets much more than most of the better Alpine resorts. If you're there for a whole winter it doesn't really matter, you'll get loads of pow days anyway, and aside from a handful of resorts you'll be able to get fresh tracks long after a storm.

Yes on average the parks are better in NA, but why you'd want to spend much of an EU season in a park is beyond me. Even so, there are plenty of EU resorts with parks which are up there with the best in the world. Sticking with France I'd point to Vars as the leader. Google it. Half a dozen parks for all levels, and open at night too.

Here's a quote about Les 3 Vallées area, which I'm not personally a fan of, but you'll get the idea:

"the six largest ski areas in the United States could fit inside Les Trois Vallées. That means that Killington, Vail, Heavenly, Steamboat, Squaw Valley and Park City could all fit inside the space covered by Les Trois Vallées with almost 10,000 acres left over. So you can throw in Jackson Hole, Taos, Sun Valley, Keystone, Crested Butte, Alta, Solitude, Cranmore and Stowe and still have room"

In other words, if you ski just park then stay in the states. If you have a wide range of interests whether within skiing, culturally, gastonomically, linguisticually, or are looking to broaden your horizons and experience all kinds of rad shit, come to "Europe". Just do yourself a favour and when you get here, don't run around calling it "Europe" like it's a country. It's a continent with 50 countries. Have fun, feel free to message me if you want extra info.

12951448:Hackster said:
Frankly, this doesn't make sense. Having skied on both continents there is nothing in Europe that even remotely compares to places like let's say Colorado's Summit County in terms of versatility and snow falls.

Versatility means you have excellent park, backcountry, mountaineering in or close to one place - you pretty much can't get it better than that. As Turkleton said parks are on an entirely different level in NA compared to Europe. Snow falls during an average season are up to twice as much with the quality often being much better due to lower moisture content. Also season in NA is usually 1-2 month longer since most resorts in the Alps are significantly lower elevated.

Sure, you can experience draughts in either place except maybe British Columbia and Alaska but they are more common in Europe. There's a good reason behind the rule of following the snow in the Alps - which you won't be doing often while stuck with a regular job to make a living.

BTW contrary to common belief skiing within Europe started in Norway, not the Alps. If your mind is still pregnant with the idea of relocating then better go for the overall cultural experience. In terms of skiing better abort.
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12951472:Rastafarider said:
Monday morning mindfuck? Late to the April fools party? Wow, hard to know even where to start.Europe (continent with >40% of the world's ski resorts) versus... Summit County (summit County)?? Are you fucking serious? Summit County? Versatility? I think what you mean is diversity, but in either case, what are you smoking over there? The only thing that Summit County will offer you that you won't get in Europe is legalised dope and overcrowded small flat ski resorts.

Diversity/Variety/Versatility. Let's take the French Alps for example. Let's say you're in Grenoble which would be the EU equivalent of SLC maybe. You can be anywhere from the Southern Alpes skiing within sight of the mediterranean sea all the way up to Chamonix in the shadow of the most dramatic lift accessed mountains in the world, all within 2 hours either way. And in between there would be well over 15 mega-resorts that destroy anything in North America in terms of vert, acreage and variety of terrain. Or there would be over 100 totally authentic under-the-radar mountains where you'd be skiing untracked pow 10 days after a storm, under the lifts. We haven't even got into Italy, Switz, Austria, Eastern Europe or the Pyrenees, summer skiing, MOUNTAINEERING??? That must've been a joke.

Granted, on average, Utah gets more snow, and better snow. Comparative data seems hard to come by, but I'd be very surprised if Summit gets much more than most of the better Alpine resorts. If you're there for a whole winter it doesn't really matter, you'll get loads of pow days anyway, and aside from a handful of resorts you'll be able to get fresh tracks long after a storm.

Yes on average the parks are better in NA, but why you'd want to spend much of an EU season in a park is beyond me. Even so, there are plenty of EU resorts with parks which are up there with the best in the world. Sticking with France I'd point to Vars as the leader. Google it. Half a dozen parks for all levels, and open at night too.

Here's a quote about Les 3 Vallées area, which I'm not personally a fan of, but you'll get the idea:

"the six largest ski areas in the United States could fit inside Les Trois Vallées. That means that Killington, Vail, Heavenly, Steamboat, Squaw Valley and Park City could all fit inside the space covered by Les Trois Vallées with almost 10,000 acres left over. So you can throw in Jackson Hole, Taos, Sun Valley, Keystone, Crested Butte, Alta, Solitude, Cranmore and Stowe and still have room"

In other words, if you ski just park then stay in the states. If you have a wide range of interests whether within skiing, culturally, gastonomically, linguisticually, or are looking to broaden your horizons and experience all kinds of rad shit, come to "Europe". Just do yourself a favour and when you get here, don't run around calling it "Europe" like it's a country. It's a continent with 50 countries. Have fun, feel free to message me if you want extra info.
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So you put down all that extensive blabla only to finally sum up pretty much the same I did before, just shorter? What are YOU smoking then?

Call it diversity, fine, and I agree with you on Summit being maily flat (not all). But this is NS and park is what most are into. And f.i. the Elk Range offers mountaineering which rivals the best in the Alps. I'll stick to that, snow is more plentiful, better and season is longer due to elevation - except for the alpine glaciers. That said if you aren't hooked with a place like Summit then move on to Utah, the Tetons or elsewhere, still tons of options left.

And to clarify, I AM based in Europe, skied all over France so don't need lessons there. Except for the terrain high up above Val Thorens and Courchevel Trois Vallees is a shithole for me, magnitude doesn't equal quality here.

Personally I'm with you that France has got better resorts. Also that the OP should come mainly for the overall culture and activity. Not merely the skiing alone, he can have plenty back home.
 
^^ You guys both make valid points. The snowpack in Europe is intercontinental which is classified as the same snowpack as Utah. Colorado is continental snowpack and YES Colorado has insane backcountry/mountaineering , in fact Ive been in Summit almost 7 years now and the backcountry is not the quickest access HOWEVER that doesnt mean the skiing is flat and crap, theres so much bc here its wild: Buffalo Mtn Silver Couloir? Backside of Mtn Baldy? Couloirs off Crystal Peak. Couloirs off Quandary. Mt Guyot? .....I am gonna stop before I blow it for others, but Summit County backcountry is by no means a joke and it is not flat skiing. That being said, majority do not ski it. Why? people are lazy and no one sees it. Like I said the access is NOT right in front of you. Our winters in the past 7 seasons have been very consistent compared to the rest of the world. April and May made up for a poor start last year and before that we had one "Drought" which we still ended up with just around 200 inches. If Stratton, Vermont has a 200 inches thats a lot for them.

EU skiing though in my opinion is on a whole nother level compared to the states simply because of policy. Yeah America has great terrain but have you guys ever seen "Blizzard of Ahhhhhs" .....theres a reason why those guys were always skiing EU and they explained it a lot in the movie over and over- Corporate Fatcats, Liability blah blah blah.

With all these being said, I want to move to Verbier personally...where do I start with the research? Anyone know who I should talk to ? Ha thanks
 
^^^^

What plans do you have for Verbier? Just skiing or work along with it?

Start doing a search on TGR, some mags are living there. Many resort to La Tsoumaz , Nendaz or Le Chable at the foot of the hill since staying right at the village is exorbitabtly costly. The park sucks so the backcountry skiing is what brought the fame. Terrain wise it is one of the best resorts on the planet however don't expect frequent dumps. OTOH the area is so vast that if you know where to look you can still find pow days after the last snowfalls.

Problem is as anywhere else upon a dump all the locals from Lake Geneva invade the resort, providing fierce competition for first tracks.
 
Don't think I meant to agree with anything you said, but maybe I just misunderstood your point(s) of view. Either way, it turned into a bit of a rant, which it wasn't meant to either.

I also don't much like L3V, I just wanted to illustrate my point and that was the one quote I remembered.

My point is that the diversity of mountains and resorts in the Alps is second to none. So much character if you want that (e.g. La Grave), all the way through to uber-resorts with all the mod cons. Love it! I really like some spots in Italy but haven't been able to ski over there enough. Mostly tied to France.

12951507:Hackster said:
So you put down all that extensive blabla only to finally sum up pretty much the same I did before, just shorter? What are YOU smoking then?

Call it diversity, fine, and I agree with you on Summit being maily flat (not all). But this is NS and park is what most are into. And f.i. the Elk Range offers mountaineering which rivals the best in the Alps. I'll stick to that, snow is more plentiful, better and season is longer due to elevation - except for the alpine glaciers. That said if you aren't hooked with a place like Summit then move on to Utah, the Tetons or elsewhere, still tons of options left.

And to clarify, I AM based in Europe, skied all over France so don't need lessons there. Except for the terrain high up above Val Thorens and Courchevel Trois Vallees is a shithole for me, magnitude doesn't equal quality here.

Personally I'm with you that France has got better resorts. Also that the OP should come mainly for the overall culture and activity. Not merely the skiing alone, he can have plenty back home.
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Honestly look seriously into it for a season, and holy shit is it almost impossible ( by that I mean you have to have some money coming out of your asshole to get it done). I'm a cat driver with over 6 years under my belt, and it was still almost impossible to get work there. Tryed to talk to a few places, and every place told me you need some sort of snowcat certification to get running. Fuck that...fuck it all. Also getting a season in the states if your canadian is also impossible too. So fucked.
 
12951675:MLB said:
Honestly look seriously into it for a season, and holy shit is it almost impossible ( by that I mean you have to have some money coming out of your asshole to get it done). I'm a cat driver with over 6 years under my belt, and it was still almost impossible to get work there. Tryed to talk to a few places, and every place told me you need some sort of snowcat certification to get running. Fuck that...fuck it all. Also getting a season in the states if your canadian is also impossible too. So fucked.
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Where did you look for work as a cat operator? Here in Austria you need no certification, in fact no such thing exists. I worked with an american cat operator this year, and I know it was the visa that was the hard part. If you wanna come and work here as a cat operator, try checking out companies such as qparks, schneestern and better parks.
 
I have the experience of a lifetime. Im in a boarding school in the Engadina in Switzerland (near St. Moritz). It wasn't hard to get here you just need a visa or a B-permit if you're here longer than 6 months. If I were you, I would move to Europe ASAP. I grew up in Chicago and still live there during the summer but Europe is much more chilled. I can take a 30 min train ride to the nicest mountains around. Corvatsch, Davos, Laxx, Corviglia. The people are so much nicer and the atmosphere is completely different in a good way, as it should be. Switzerland is expensive, but there are places where housing is cheap and finding a job is easy. My advice to you, pack your shit now and move!
 
^yeah that's not really right at all

if you're non-EU coming to CH, your only options are a study visa (which will also get you an L permit for the length of your study), a working holiday visa (if your country has an agreement with switzerland) or you need to be sponsored for a work visa (which will get you typically a 2 year L permit, but the employer has to prove they couldn't find someone else to fill the job)

you only get a B permit either once you've had a work permit and L permit for 2 years, or if you're an EU member moving in they give them randomly but not to everyone.

I just moved to zurich in november and got in on a work permit with my company.

Coming from Canada, moving to europe definitely trades off backcountry for sheer quantity of lift accessed terrain. I can count the number of pow days here on one hand, but I also couldn't count the number of lift serviced resorts within an hour and a half of me on five hands, maybe even ten. And that definitely helps when you're looking for powder two weeks after a storm

Europe is awesome, but don't expect west coast powder. Come expecting tonnes of resorts, great terrain and and an awesome apres scene and it'll deliver.
 
12954451:dbchili said:
you only get a B permit either once you've had a work permit and L permit for 2 years, or if you're an EU member moving in they give them randomly but not to everyone.
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I go to the same school as her and we get B permits right off the bat. I agree though, It's not as easy as packing your shit and leaving. damn it woman.
 
12954457:HungryHypocrite said:
I go to the same school as her and we get B permits right off the bat. I agree though, It's not as easy as packing your shit and leaving. damn it woman.
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okay but with the student permit you're forced to sign a letter saying you'll leave the country after your studies right? All i was saying is a traditional b permit counts towards permanent residency here but only if you live continuously in the country during the qualification period (10 years or whatever)

so yours wouldn't count towards given that you've garunteed you'll move out after, but yeah that's cool you get a b right away
 
12954520:dbchili said:
so yours wouldn't count towards given that you've garunteed you'll move out after, but yeah that's cool you get a b right away
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Got a C permit m8, get on my level
 
12951587:Hackster said:
^^^^

What plans do you have for Verbier? Just skiing or work along with it?

Start doing a search on TGR, some mags are living there. Many resort to La Tsoumaz , Nendaz or Le Chable at the foot of the hill since staying right at the village is exorbitabtly costly. The park sucks so the backcountry skiing is what brought the fame. Terrain wise it is one of the best resorts on the planet however don't expect frequent dumps. OTOH the area is so vast that if you know where to look you can still find pow days after the last snowfalls.

Problem is as anywhere else upon a dump all the locals from Lake Geneva invade the resort, providing fierce competition for first tracks.
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Thanks for the input. No reason to sound like a stuck up, opinionated, weekend warrior that most likely lives in a city. And yes I would be going for the cultural experience overall; as well as to experience some of the terrain if possible. I want to ski everywhere, not just Europe. I'm talking about 3 months, not the rest of my life. I don't really want you at my resort either but you don't see me trying to take the wind out of your sails.
 
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