Hypocrisy in park skiing

G

grant.

Member
I used to be one of the people angrily waiting to drop or yelling from the chair complaining about how sidejumpers ruin take offs and should stay out of the park, but isn't park skiing all about doing what you want to do?

In the last few years many skiers and crews have developed different styles, and many of which seemingly challenge conventional park skiing (sliding under high rails, hitting rails from the side, purposely landing on the knuckle to combo into another flip/spin/revert down jump landings, etc..). Isn't there a level of hypocrisy that comes into play when park skiers bounce off the sides of rails but still get upset with beginners that are just having their own type of fun in the park? Most recently I've been seeing new signs at the entrance to parks with arrows indicating how to hit a take off for a rail, detailing red arrows off the sides where you're "not supposed to go". It's just another feature in the park so how can there really be rules on how to ride it?

I understand the issue of damaging the take off lips in regards to rails but that's got to be expected in park skiing, and there's whole crews employed by resorts in order to keep shit tidy anyway. I guess I just wanted to see if anyone here thinks the same way.

tl;dr hyopcrites, yada yada, i'm going to get roasted for this
 
All of skiing is the same way. Park rats hating on racers. TGR Maggots hating on finding Chads from Alta. It will always be us vs them. Whoever "them" is. I'm cool your not, get over it. Big Mountain vs Backcountry and lets not forget about our bastard step child Tele.

Remember folks.... All we are doing is sliding on snow with shit stuck to our feet.
 
I don’t mind them most of the time but when there cutting you off on your run or standing in bad spots that’s the real problem
 
13895535:DirtYStylE said:
If you get angry while skiing you are not doing it right
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Except when some drunk ass falls getting on the lift and they stop it for 10min while he collects his shit and then proceeds to fall again, and this continues to happen every other person on the lift ride up, effectively increasing my ride time by quadruple. Yeah that'll make me mad, but otherwise how can u get angry skiing :D
 
Pretty much just an American thing. I don't know why people get so pissed off on the mountain. It's recreation, get over it.
 
It does mess up the takeoffs. Saying "theres people employed to fix that so who cares" is like trashing a hotel because theres a housekeeper so fuck em.

Terrain parks are their for people to have fun. Theyre open to creativity but there is still general etiquette. Its not a playground, and even playgrounds have rules sometimes.

If you're having a shit fit and throwing things at noobs screaming "get off my lawn" you might have been going way too far, but there are still general rules.

A large part of people who get hurt "on a rail" actually side jumped it and never touched the rail. Same with jumps. These people are a huge prblem with insurance and the park in general.

Ive seen and been in some gnar collisions with people sweeping in to side jump a takeoff.

The park is there to have fun, but dont be a douche.
 
13895498:snowpocalypse said:
lets not forget about our bastard step child Tele.
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YOU’RE NOT MY REAL DAD!!!!

I don’t want to be ANYTHING like you!

**This post was edited on Feb 21st 2018 at 11:41:10am
 
13895785:Dustin. said:
Pretty much just an American thing. I don't know why people get so pissed off on the mountain. It's recreation, get over it.
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My only issue with gapers/jerrys/tourists/kids under like 8 in the park is that they're going to hurt someone and themselves. I can't even tell you how many times ive seen a gaper snowplow down a landing of a jump and some skier gets a close call with mom as she's just trying to make it to the bottom.

Ultimately in the USA at big resorts, park passes are what we need. I doubt it'll happen, but if park city had a park pass i'd be so happy.
 
13895856:KneeDrop said:
YOU’RE NOT MY REAL DAD!!!!

I don’t want to be ANYTHING like you!

**This post was edited on Feb 21st 2018 at 11:41:10am
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Good thing too. Now here's $10 go to the movies.... I want some privet time with your mom.
 
13895788:theabortionator said:
It does mess up the takeoffs. Saying "theres people employed to fix that so who cares" is like trashing a hotel because theres a housekeeper so fuck em.
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I see what you're getting at here but I also believe if you want to trash a hotel room then by all means fuck that shit up, you're the one whose credit card is on the booking so you pay for it in the end (labor, damages, etc..).

And I totally agree everyone's points about the dangers of inexperienced and unaware riders standing in unsafe areas (I'm a big fan of park passes and instructional sessions as long as there's no fee), growing up in NJ/PA I had to deal with it literally every lap. I just think it's ridiculous to tell someone to not go off what appears to be a small jump when they're really just having fun and trying to progress into riding larger jumps more comfortably.
 
13895902:grant. said:
I see what you're getting at here but I also believe if you want to trash a hotel room then by all means fuck that shit up, you're the one whose credit card is on the booking so you pay for it in the end (labor, damages, etc..).

And I totally agree everyone's points about the dangers of inexperienced and unaware riders standing in unsafe areas (I'm a big fan of park passes and instructional sessions as long as there's no fee), growing up in NJ/PA I had to deal with it literally every lap. I just think it's ridiculous to tell someone to not go off what appears to be a small jump when they're really just having fun and trying to progress into riding larger jumps more comfortably.
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There are some big court cases where people went off those small jumps to have fun, got seriously injured and sued for a bunch of money.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all to tell them not to as long as you aren't a douche and do it in a constructive manner. I don't think there's a need for a "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING GET THE FUCK OFF OFF THAT ITS NOT A FUCKING JUMP YOU FUCKING FUCK!"

But explaining to people basic park etiquette and pointing them in the direction of the smaller parks tiny jumps is totally fine.

As much as it sucks fixing a takeoff just to have the first 5 people sidejump it, maybe even roll the corner which sucks, getting hit while raking by people trying to sidejump, getting hit when trying to hit the feature but people sidejumping etc sucks, I'm not mad at people. People don't know I get it, but like anywhere else there are basic rules that keep the park fun and safe for everyone.

Also some places aren't about having shitty mogul looking takeoffs that are all wonky. When you have everything squared up and dialed, you really see what sidejumpers can do, especially in the spring, but even peak season. And people will skip the smaller parks with small jumps built for them to sidejump features and eventually sidejump or go short on the bigger booters and get hurt. Trying to explain to management that even though 4 people got hurt in a day on a rail or jump, that they didn't actually hit the rail, or that none of them actually hit the jump properly and it's not poorly built.

Same with people rolling knuckles slow or posting up on the knuckle. I'm sure you'd agree that's a no go. So why is a rule okay there but not in other places?

Things like calling your drop, clearing the landing quickly, not snaking people , standing on knuckles, etc are a few rules that keep everything in decent shape, things flowing, and curb accidents.

To me ignorance is fine on their part, so long as they aren't a dick. That's a problem, especially these days. You have the "I or my kids can do whatever the fuck they want in the terrain park" attitude. That shits whack imo. If you've never been to a skatepark and suck. It's cool that you suck, but if people point out basic etiquette, you learn from it and apply it. Same with anything you're new to.

The best thing people can do is be nice and tell people where the smaller parks are, or inform them what they were doing wrong and why it's un safe.
 
I think the obvious difference is the lack of knowledge in park etiquette. Gapers pose a danger to other skiers and features by being oblivious and unaware of the rules of the park. Skiers bouncing off rails or sliding under them may be using the features in a non-traditional way, but they aren't risking the safety of anyone, or destroying features in opposition of the rules.

Using features differently =/= misusing or abusing the park rules in my opinion.
 
13895997:SteveStepp said:
I think the obvious difference is the lack of knowledge in park etiquette. Gapers pose a danger to other skiers and features by being oblivious and unaware of the rules of the park. Skiers bouncing off rails or sliding under them may be using the features in a non-traditional way, but they aren't risking the safety of anyone, or destroying features in opposition of the rules.

Using features differently =/= misusing or abusing the park rules in my opinion.
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only real concern i can think of is when kids/noobs stand or sit in a blind spot like a landing. beyond that, what real danger do these people pose?
 
13895655:dmooney13 said:
I don’t mind them most of the time but when there cutting you off on your run or standing in bad spots that’s the real problem
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Yeah I'd say the biggest problem with gapers and lil joeys in the park would be the fact that many of them don't get the fuck out of the way of features and especially landings for big jumps. I can't tell you how many accidents I've seen with kids chilling on the blind side of jumps
 
13895860:eheath said:
My only issue with gapers/jerrys/tourists/kids under like 8 in the park is that they're going to hurt someone and themselves. I can't even tell you how many times ive seen a gaper snowplow down a landing of a jump and some skier gets a close call with mom as she's just trying to make it to the bottom.

Ultimately in the USA at big resorts, park passes are what we need. I doubt it'll happen, but if park city had a park pass i'd be so happy.
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That I 100% agree with in the US. In Europe they make it clear that if you get hurt or hurt someone else, you are going to pay the piper like you read about. In the US it seems people just assume they are covered or it's the resorts responsibility to make them ski responsibly. Those people never read the signs that say "You can seriously die in Freeway, stay out". Park pass is a good idea at places like Breck, Keystone, Park City, Mammoth. The features can be massive and deadly, and even a small jump can be crazy when mom and the kids are having a picnic on the landing. As long as you can take a test online or something before you show up so that it's a seamless process getting it on your pass if you are visiting a mountain.
 
Park pass isn't the answer imo. It can work some place, but it's not a good fit a lot of places. First you have to have to have somebody working the gate at every park, or every pass required park of it's pointless. If there was a more nationwide right from the start it could work, but individual

stuff just doesn't work. People will legit skip going to a resort and hit another place than deal with a park pass for a one off. People will argue "but it's not that hard to get" It doesn't really matter. People will skip out and that's no good. Also I've seen so many resorts that had park pass not have people checking anyway so it was pointless.

The biggest thing for parks has been people putting a smaller park next to their medium bigger park. If these features are too big, go that way. It isn't like a go through it or ski some blue trail. Then it's easy to grab people and tell them that they shouldn't be in that park, but mention the smaller park.

It's great that parks are attracting more people of all ability levels. You gotta start somewhere. Unfortunately a lot of people these days have that mentality of "i can do whatever the fuck I want" especially with their kids. Idk how to change that, but jesus it sucks. "Don't tell johnny he can't hit the 70 foot jump! Nobody tells my johnny what to do!"
 
Park rangers should be more proactive in approaching people who are gapers. You know it's easy to spot them. Anyone with rentals or carving skis should have no business being in the park.
 
13896706:GRaboneSnow said:
Park rangers should be more proactive in approaching people who are gapers. You know it's easy to spot them. Anyone with rentals or carving skis should have no business being in the park.
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The bigger resorts have a shit to of people riding the parks. It's literally impossible for day staff to approach even most of them. It's sort of a do what you can as you see it situation. If somebody does something unsafe, talk to them and try and educate them a bit. But there's no way they can hold everybody's hand. There's just too much volume.

Also even if they suck and are on rental gear, that doesn't mean they're causing problems. It really depends.

It's sort of a mix of getting everything open, keeping everything maintained, and as you have time, or if you see something fucked, talking to guests.

If you have 15 jumps and 100+ rails peak season, there's only so much you can do if you have 8 people or less and a billion people coming through the park to gape it up.

As much as I don't want to keep people from getting into it, and a lot of guys go too far, sometimes the aggressive nature in some skateparks and a little bit of surfing works. When you fuck up and somebody really calls you out, you're probably going to remember that. Surfers take it a little too hard, but on some level it works.

Obviously we want parks to be inclusive because 25 die hard park riders with passes are not going to keep a big mountain going, but there needs to be a balance.

It kind of sucks with the "don't tell my kid what he can't do! He can be a fucking astronaut if he wants to be!" because people are more oblivious, give less fucks, and are harder to educate.

Hell I had a ski instructor at buttermilk park a lesson of 10 ish kids on the knuckle, centered behind the takeoff on a 72ish foot jump 3 of the pro line. You couldn't fucking see them, and the shittiest thing would be both on a riders perspective of coming off it knowing shit was going to get bad fast, and on the kids perspective getting seriously fucked up.

Dude had been there before they had a park though so obviously he knew everything. When he was a dick I went right into it and told him it's going to look shitty when your kids get seriously injured because you're a ignorant douche.

But the way the rest of the resort views the parks can be as much a problem as anything. The race coaches, the instructors, the lifties that poach on their way down to side jump and leave ruts. If the employees of the fucking mountain don't even understand or respect the parks, it's hard to expect some soccer mom and her kids to give a fuck on their 4 day vacation.
 
Yesterday i was hopping onto this pretty low drop box when this little girl carved into the landing (as i was at the lip of the jump). I didn't really mind and just slid it regularly and popped to switch and carved out of her way (I wouldn't even call it a close call). I get to the singles line and feel a tapping on my shoulder as im getting to the front. This lady was yelling but I had to tell her to wait as i turned off my music. She then was flipping out saying how I was "WAAAY TO CLOSE TO MY DAUGHTER" and how "SHE WAS IN FRONT OF YOU"

and how I didn't know what I was doing yadayada. I gave an ubenthusiastic sorry and joined a group of 3.

The other day I was hitting a big rainbow box where the landing was completely out of sight, and this kid like 3 feet tall was slowly swerving in the landing. If I hit it the box half a second later he would have gone to the hospital. The mom was a complete gaper and just looked at me when I skied by.

It's kinda just bothersome when someone bring your family in the park and blames you for being too dangerous... if anything it's dangerous to bring your clueless family into the park in the first place.
 
Well we all start somewhere, and everybody sucks the first time in the park. I don't have a problem with kids learning, committing and eating shit on every feature as long as they take their turn, don't snake or ruin the lips by rolling over them. It takes a lot of balls for a 12 year old to try their first rail hit in front of a bunch of 17-20 year old park rats who are way better and to be honest, most park skiers look pretty intimidating to a kid in the park for the first time. We aren't gonna be getting any snowboarders to switch over to skiing so we need to make sure more young skiers want to get into freestyle. Getting angry at them is just gonna drive them away
 
13895860:eheath said:
My only issue with gapers/jerrys/tourists/kids under like 8 in the park is that they're going to hurt someone and themselves. I can't even tell you how many times ive seen a gaper snowplow down a landing of a jump and some skier gets a close call with mom as she's just trying to make it to the bottom.

Ultimately in the USA at big resorts, park passes are what we need. I doubt it'll happen, but if park city had a park pass i'd be so happy.
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On the other hand, I love watching a skier snake his way through a jerry-packed park. Just like some NY skate footy, it adds to the gnar factor and the core crowd loves it.
 
13897086:Puzzled said:
On the other hand, I love watching a skier snake his way through a jerry-packed park. Just like some NY skate footy, it adds to the gnar factor and the core crowd loves it.
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hell yeah, that's the cool antithesis to the little tryhards making a big scene about "getting snaked!!" and throwing up their arms if a gaper skis near them on the inrun
 
I disrespect the fuck outta "Park Etiquette" If i'm not literally leaving my trash in the park than there is no harm no foul. Ion care if I snake your shitty line, Ion care if you're filming and i'm in the shot, Ion care if I can only do 2 on, frontside off. Side hitting is not unsafe whatsoever so when the jerries do it, more power to them. Im not going to drive an hour to the mountain to be expected to act a certain way when I get there. Fuck Yo Rules, and To Hell with park crews who complain about having to actually work.
 
13897688:Govygen_gourmet said:
I disrespect the fuck outta "Park Etiquette" If i'm not literally leaving my trash in the park than there is no harm no foul. Ion care if I snake your shitty line, Ion care if you're filming and i'm in the shot, Ion care if I can only do 2 on, frontside off. Side hitting is not unsafe whatsoever so when the jerries do it, more power to them. Im not going to drive an hour to the mountain to be expected to act a certain way when I get there. Fuck Yo Rules, and To Hell with park crews who complain about having to actually work.
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Not sure if you should try harder, or just stop trying.
 
13897086:Puzzled said:
On the other hand, I love watching a skier snake his way through a jerry-packed park. Just like some NY skate footy, it adds to the gnar factor and the core crowd loves it.
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It can be super fun sometimes
 
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