Hybrids VS Diesels

M

morocco_mole

Member
It really pisses me off that theirs alot of european diesel cars that get insane mileage that they dont sell in america. Their much cheaper than hybrids and get better mileage.

Five Diesels from Europe that will out-eco a Prius

Posted Mar 25th 2006 10:01AM by John Neff

Filed under: Economy, Green, Audi, Kia, SMART

Your Prius may be rated at 60 mpg in the city and 51 mpg while

cruising the countryside, but chances are you’re not realizing those numbers the EPA obtained by strapping

Toyota’s Hybrid Synergy Drive to a dynamometer. In Europe, where fuel economy is calculated by actually operating

an engine on the road while it’s under the hood of a vehicle, the Prius returns a more realistic 47 mpg in the city

and 56 mpg on the highway, or 5.0L/100km city and 4.2L/100km highway in the continent’s native metric.

This more realistic fuel economy rating lowers the bar enough for a handful of European small cars to beat the Prius

in a game at which many Americans believe it’s indomitable. And guess what, these cars from the old world all use

highly fuel-efficient diesel engines.

(All mileage numbers represent official European rating converted into

miles/gallon via this conversion site)

AudiA2_TDI.jpg
Audi A2

1.2 TDI

city: 65.33

highway: 87.11

average: 78.4

9133821227.jpg
Smart

fortwo CDI

city: 60.31

highway: 75.87

average: 69.18

p202_propia.jpg


Peugeot

107 Urban 1.4 HDi 54 / Citroën C1 HDi 55 SX

city: 44.38

highway: 69.18

average: 57.37)

peugeot-high-mileage.JPG
Citroën C2 HDi 70 SensoDrive VTR

city: 48

highway: 61.9

average: 56

1086357734-3023.jpg


KIA Picanto 1.1 CRDi EX

city: 48

highway: 31.9

average: 56

If many in this country

are so concerned about eking the most amount of miles from a gallon of fuel, why hasn’t the modern diesel enjoyed

the same success here as the hybrid? The easy answer would be the ghost of diesel’s past, particularly a bad

batch of oil burners designed by Oldsmobile in

the 1980’s.

The more complicated response is that Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel fuel hasn’t been readily

available in the U.S. like it is in Europe. This special blend of diesel contains less sulfur, which reduces emissions,

but also allows for better emissions control systems to be used on a diesel engine. Fortunately ULSD will be the new

standard in the U.S. come this fall. Some companies, like DaimlerChrysler, are waiting in the wings with 50-state

approved diesels that are powerful, clean and get grand gas mileage. Will diesels finally become the eco-peer of

hybrids? Who will be the first to marry the two in an ultra-efficient diesel hybrid production car? Time will tell, but

we can all breathe easier knowing more green options are sprouting up every year.

 
thats so true. my teacher has a vw jetta diesel and she said she gets about 55 mpg highway. and i bet a jetta is a hell of a lot less money brand new than a prius. too bad diesel is like $4.65/gallon
 
Diesel is MAD expensive in canada right now. Unless you make your own biodiesel ( which i know some people who do), then its all relative. I know that the gas station back home has had ultra low sulfur ( SP) diesel for a long long time. But then again everybody back north drives either a Cummins, Duramax, or Powerstroke truck.
 
My TDI Golf is still more economical then its Gas powred brother, despite the high cost of diesel right now
 
gm is in the process of designing a new high efficiency diesel engine to be used in small trucks, and cars, and it is set to be released sometime in the next couple of years. I had to write a paper about it for autos last year.
 
its stupid that we dont just import cars like the audi a2 that get fucking almost 90 miles to the gallon and we have to wait for american garbage
 
i have an audi a3 and its a gas, but i know, that diesel a2 is made off of aluminium (not entirely) which makes it expensive...

and what you might not know:

in europe diesel is cheaper than gas

in europe NOBODY drives hybrids, only new, clean diesels or small gas cars
 
and did you know we actually drive "gas", while benzine is still the most popular fuel.

and hybrids are actually pretty popular in europe.

and your (american) diesel still is twice as cheap as in many european countries, not even mentioning normal fuel.

plus notice the irony of people on an american website blaming foreigners for their emission.

 
you cant buy a diesel car in new york from a dealership. they say its because of emissions. my parents used to have an 1986 mercedes diesel. it had an inline 5 cylinder and got like 40 mpg and it was just as heavy as a full size truck. deisel always used to be cheaper than gas but the tax man got all over that shit once fuel econemy became a major issue with drivers today. the government spends billions of dollars a year on a war basically to steal oil but could be spending this money on alternative fuel research and we could be done with oil all together.
 
that camry will cost twice as much to fuel as this badass diesel a3





















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It's

become something or an article of faith among the mainstream media in

this country that the only environmentally friendly automobile is Toyota's

Prius. True, the Prius and its fiendishly complicated and expensive

hybrid powertrain is an innovative piece - innovative and accomplished

enough, in fact, to be named our 2004 Car of the Year. But I've just

spent the past five days in a car that not only trumps the Toyota for

driver appeal, but arguably does a better job of saving the planet.







The car?

Audi's new A3 1.9 TDIe, developed to meet the proposed 2012 EU CO2

emissions target of 120 grams/kilometer - roughly equivalent to 52mpg

on the highway here in the US - and escape London's $16/day congestion

charge. (Cars that met the target were to have been able to enter

London without paying the congestion charge as of last week, but the

British capital's car-hating mayor, Ken Livingston now seems to be

backing away from the idea.)















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With

its revised engine and gear ratios, and low rolling resistance Michelin

Primacy HP 205/55 R16 tires, Audi claims the A3 1.9 TDIe is good for

53mpg on the highway. In more than 500 miles of fast freeway hustling,

rush-hour grind and regular urban running last week, my tester averaged

44.3mpg without any econo-driving techniques. (All the mileage figures

quoted here are for small-sized US gallons, not the generously

proportioned British ones.)



On

a 48.5mile run to London's Heathrow Airport around the jammed M25, one

of Europe's busiest freeways, I averaged an impressive 50.5mpg in the

sort of bumper-to-bumper stop-start traffic you find on the 405 here in

LA every day. Flicking through the A3's trip computer at the end of my

drive, I found the car had averaged 42.6mpg over the last 1454miles at

an average speed of 51.2mph. By contrast, our long term Prius never managed better than 47mpg between refills, and averaged 41.6mpg over 22,278 miles, most of which were on LA freeways.



With

just 103hp, 1.9 TDIe is the least powerful of the three turbodiesel

fours offered in the A3 (the others, both 2.0-liter versions, have

138hp and 167hp). On paper, the A3 1.9 TDIe's performance is modest,

with a top speed of just 116mph, with the 0-60mph sprint taking about

11.5sec. But on the road, the little Audi is a delight to drive; a much

more entertaining and rewarding econocar than the antiseptic Prius.



The

secret is the little diesel's torque - 184lb-ft at just 1900rpm - plus

a cleverly spaced set of ratios in the slick-shifting five speed

transmission, great steering, and a nimble chassis. On the tight

English backroads this combo means you can maintain a relatively high

average speed by merely surfing the torque and not working the engine

hard. The relatively tall gearing also means the A3 bowls effortlessly

along the freeway at a relaxed 80mph, the engine turning just 2200rpm.

I completed one 103 mile freeway stint at an average speed of 75mph -

and still got 42.4mpg.



There's

been a lot of talk about bringing diesels to America, and a lot of

speculation as to whether American consumers would take to them. Most

pundits suggest diesels in America only make sense for SUVs and pickup

trucks. I think we're missing a trick here. It's a little noisier at

slow speeds than a regular gas engine, and you feel a buzz back through

the clutch pedal at low speeds, but a car like the Audi A3 1.9 TDIe

seems made for the typical American commute, which generally appears to

be a combination of stop-start downtown driving, slow to medium speed

freeway running, and relatively open feeder roads or suburban streets.







What's

more, the little Audi's freeway manners are so good, it would make a

great long distance cruiser, easily capable of eating the miles on the

Interstates across Wyoming, Texas or Montana in giant, loping strides.

Because you can expect to go 650-700 miles between fuel stops you'll

make better time than almost anything else on the road.



The

Prius is a car that does its best work standing still in traffic, when

the gas engine shuts down. It's not quite as efficient as the Audi in

almost any other operating condition, especially freeway cruising, and

it's nowhere near as much fun to drive. So, Toyota hybrid or Audi

diesel? If you like driving, and really want to cut your carbon

footprint, it's a no-brainer.





 
bmw is gonna release a new turbo diesel engine within the next year or two that is 300+ hp and gets 40+ mpg. heard it from one of the sales reps at a local dealership
 
The Smart car is actually on sale in the u.s market. this is from an article from msnbc that was posted today. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24599768&GT1=43001

Smart car gets highest score in crash tests

Size may be less of an issue in potential urban accidents — study

msnus_msnbc_business_040607


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updated 3:37 p.m. ET, Wed., May. 14, 2008

WASHINGTON - Unlike most cars on the road, the pint-sized 2008 Smart fortwo evokes a simple question at first glance: “How safe is it?”

The micro car, the smallest car for sale in the U.S. market, offers a good level of safety, according to new crash tests conducted by the insurance industry.

The 8-foot, 8-inch vehicle received the highest rating of good in front-end and side-impact testing by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, helping address some concerns that consumers may be more vulnerable in the tiny two-seater.

The tests, released Wednesday, show how well vehicles stack up against others of similar size and weight. The institute noted that the front-end test scores can’t be compared across weight classes, meaning a small car that earns a good rating isn’t considered safer than a large car that did not earn the highest rating.

Adrian Lund, the institute’s president, said a small car may be more practical in congested urban areas where serious, high-speed crashes are less likely. The institute conducted the crash test to help guide consumers who want a small car that can give them good protection.

“All things being equal in safety, bigger and heavier is always better. But among the smallest cars, the engineers of the Smart did their homework and designed a high level of safety into a very small package,” Lund said.

The institute’s frontal crash test simulates a 40 mile per hour crash with a similar vehicle. The side crash simulates what would happen if the vehicle was struck in the side by a sport utility vehicle at 31 mph.

In a test that assessed the vehicle’s protection in rear crashes, the fortwo received the second-highest rating of acceptable.

Smart, a division of Daimler AG’s Mercedes-Benz brand, has arrived in U.S. showrooms this year as consumers deal with rising fuel prices. The automaker has received more than 30,000 reservations for the vehicle — which has a base price of more than $12,000 with destination charges included and more than $17,000 for a fully loaded Smart passion convertible. Customers are putting down $99 to reserve a car.

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Smart Car is smart safety choice

May 14: While it's mostly known for its size and gas mileage, the Insurance Institute of America has given the Smart Car good marks for road safety. NBC's Jay Gray reports.

NBC News Channel

The vehicle, which had sold 6,159 units through the end of April, gets 33 miles per gallon in the city and 41 mpg on the highway. The fortwo is more than 3 feet shorter and nearly 700 pounds lighter than a Mini Cooper.

In earlier crash tests conducted by the government, Smart received the top score of five stars in side testing but the driver door unlatched during the test and opened. While it did not affect the vehicle’s test score, government regulators said the incident required them to note a safety concern for the vehicle which will appear on window stickers at dealerships.

The concern was warranted because the unlatching of the door could increase the likelihood of a driver or passenger being ejected from the vehicle, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said.

When the IIHS conducted its side test, the driver door also became unlatched. But the institute said the injury measurements on the test dummy were low and the opening didn’t affect the dummy’s movement.

The 1,800-pound car has a steel safety cage and four standard air bags, including two in front and two on the sides to protect the head and abdomen. It also has standard electronic stability control, which is designed to stop vehicles from swerving off the road.

“America has never seen a car this size before and their first question usually isn’t about (fuel) economy, it’s about safety,” said Dave Schembri, president of Smart USA. “And that’s why we think these results are so very important.”

 
what happens when you have a city of a million or two all plugging in their cars? huge power surge. im no expert and im not trying to be. but wasnt that black out a few years back from too much power being used?
 
its also the issue of batteries too. i mean the ammount of batteries they need to power a reasonably sized car for long trips is rediculous. and since there are still a lot of fossil fuel burning electic plants powering our country we are still using up natural resources for electric cars. if any of these new ideas will be big in teh future its def electric cars no doubt but i think we need to look into things like perfecting wind and solar energy to create electricity before we make a large push to go to electric cars
 
all of these cars are cool and all, but it's only part of the solution.

i don't think it should mainly be the general public's responsibility to cut emissions.

why?

average mpg for consumers is prolly at least 14, and average miles driven per year is prolly no more than 15k.

think of semi trucks. 7 miles per gallon. and they drive at least 50k miles a year.

even if a gain of one mpg in all semi trucks was acheived, gas consumption would be cut way down. i'd like to see some technology and research go into this alongside what is being done with consumer cars.

 
one thing might be the fact that everyone else is driving a f350 and you could get so fucked up in a wreck
 
Car Manufaturers can make cars that get 80 miles to the gallon. These kind of cars were around many years ago but were bought by big manufacturers to hide them. Who do you think holds tons of shares in oil? Why would they make a car that can get 80 mpg when they can make cars that get 18 mpg and reap the benefits and continue to make models each year and improve the gas mileage by one or two miles at a time to make it seem like they really care how far a gallon of gas will take you. It's funny all this Hybrid bull shit. They could make a regualr vehicle that gets better gas mileage than a hybrid. "Hybrid" just sounds cool.

I had an auto shop teacher in high school that would obsess over the newest mpg cars n shit. He went to a car show in Japan and they actually had cars where there emmisions were cleaner than the air that they were taking in. So in urban areas these cars would pretty much clean the air and leave nothing but some water as a bi-product.

Americans have been living the luxury of cheap gas prices and 2 or 3 or even 4 cars in every garage for too long. DONT EXPECT GAS PRICES TO GO DOWN. You know it's always the same pattern. Drop about 20 cents then go up about 25, drop about 20, go up about 25. It will never end because money is the root of all evil.

Yeah, i'm kinda venting.
 
lame as hell. nobody needs a hybrid suv. plus those gm hybrids get like 3 mpg better than the regular models. 99% of people that buy suv's could have their needs met just as easily by a wagon. and dont say its for towing if someone is going to seriously tow, they are going to get a diesel.
 
most suvs have a 3rd row seat that most wagons dont have and nobody wants a minivan. they also generally have more cargo room, but i guess you could argue that if they needed cargo room then they should get a pickup.
 
so if i want to tow my 20ft pontoon to the lake once a week, should i get a diesel?

plus a tahoe is a hell of a lot bigger then any wagon, 3rd seat, more cargo room, everything..
 
7 miles per gallon? thats pretty high for most of the trucks on the road. try like 3mpg. but as long as people are willing to pay shipping costs, and to buy stuff from all over the place, semi's are what is gonna get it there. maybe the consumers should start buying locally...
 
biodeisl is the way to go!

my high school has a biodeisl program that came in second place in a contest among colleges such as MIT and Yale.
 
Im just sick of all the soccer moms driving their big trucks as a status symbol, even though they only use them to pick up their kids from school. Now they can get theirs in a hybrid with the 3289 hybrid badges plastered all over the thing so everyone will know how environmentally conscious they are, and how they're somehow helping. Even though the thing still gets worse gas milaege than anything that's the automotive equivalent bloated whale.

btw im ranting
 
I've heard that amount of energy, space, and emissions that go into growing crops for bio diesel all add up to make cost more and worse for the environment that regular diesel. It is renewable though which is good.
 
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