Humnas are not to blame for global warming... the sun is (nice documentary)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2032575,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,184160,00.html

Martin Durkin, the guy who made this documentary pretty much portrays data that has been disproved by more recent research or portrays questionable data. Also, he skews the intentions of some of those questioned. The MIT professor interviewed wrote a letter to Channel 4 complaining how his words were misinterpreted.

Finally, please look into this guy's history. He has absolutely no background education as a scientist. However as a film-maker, it is much easier spin interviews in a way that can portray his own PERSONAL opinion on issues instead of portraying actual science. This is why when you do research for papers and reports in higher learning, you use academic journals, not these kinds of biased movies.

After looking into this, just like Al Gore's movie, I cannot take any of what these movies say very seriously unless either the person interviewed or the journal of science the data was attained from in put in front of my face.

But then again, he says there is "scientific proof" that breast implants are beneficial to women because they reduce the chances of breast cancer....as long as we ignore the scientific data saying otherwise.
 
sadly, I am sick right now, and I have nothing else better to do so....

I just did a search through my college's library system, which is very extensive considering its number 9 in the country(not a self call). Friis-Christensen, the scientist that published the claim which the documentary was based on, had his last article on the connection between the sun and global climate change published in 2000, thats 7 years ago. With all this debate on climate change, why hasn't he published any more articles? It seems very obvious that with all the debate and research going on, there would be new data that needs to be published.

The only answer is that his research is flawed. He cant get his articles through the peer review process probably because his data doesn't support his claims or there are obvious errors in his hypothesis.

Bottom line. the research this documentary is based on is bullshit. Whoever actually believes what this documentary says without looking up the facts is utterly retarded.
 
careful man. i know i have the same opinion as you but i said that and 99% of ns hates me now thinking im the only person who thinks that
 
if you say that, then please present your proof. Shitty documentaries and websites do not count either. I don't care if its government or non-profit related. Those all places hold biases from their funders.

Link me to an article in a scientific journal article in the past three years that proves humans are not the cause of global climate change. Please, I would love to read about the other side of the argument written by scientists with research checked over by their peers.
 
the problem i have with "An Inconvenient Truth" is that gore mentions how the last time a glacier like Greenland melted, it pretty much plunged the world into another ice age. In this movie he acknowledges it melting, but then says "but we'll get back to that later" then never mentions it again.
 
ok well... hmm....how come the hottest 10 years on record were like in the last uhh 15 years or so?? EVEN if somehow people aren't responsible.... lets stop the fuckin blame game here....if its the earth's fault....the cars fault....OUR fault.... should we still not try to fix it....don't take the "if i didn't break it i don't have to fix it" thinking....

some facts?? sure why not....

the flow from glaciers in greenland has more than doubled in the past decade...

Malaria and other diseases have spread to higher altitudes because the mosquitos are able to reach higher since it is warmer....

AND THINK LOGICALLY...think of the world as a person...the person smokes for a while...they become sick and weaker.... the co2 that is constantly being pumped into r atmosphere...WHERE do u think that is going?? no where....

LOOK OUTSIDE IDIOTS!!! has the weather been normal at all?? i dont' think so...i can recall many times for example in january.....it was about 15 degress celcius....but in april and may.....it goes into the minuses...

has anyone not seen all of the pictures of the artic...where it used to be covered by ice....and now is not ...all water ...on top of our planet that used to be covered by ice...

you guys can play the name game....but if its still not our fault.....does that mean it will stop?? i dont' think so.....

 
as well i was just reading some more of your posts...yes i would LOVE to see the article / link to the article that states that humans are not the cause of global warming...from an actual source....not some random person with a computer telling shit....

soo you saw "an inconvenient truth" ? HOW many articles did all of the scientists say that global warming does not exist?? ZERO!!!!!

how many scientists argue against the fact that humans might have something to do with global warming?? ZERO!!!!

as well.... someone said sumthin about this will help al gore become president.....FIRST of all....he announced he will NOT run for president again...

SECOND of all... creating a controvery among the most powerful industries that run the United States... oil...gas....won't exactly make him the most popular canidate if he indeed ran....
 
from the research i did for a paper for school humans only produce 10 percent of all co2 emmissions and co2 isnt even the most abundant greenhouse gas. water vapor is the most abundant

alot of al gores movie is the word IF and alot of fucked up graphs but hes super serial and is not the president
 
WHAT THE FUCK IS WATER VAPOUR GOING TO DO TO THE ENVIRONMENT!?!?!?!? omgg....al gore movie...the IF's he uses... is only to describe the possible consequences....there are many possibilities...the things he says IS true and ARE fact... are back up with the graphs and the experts...
 
are you retarted??????? humans are to blame for global warming, climate change has very little to do with what is going on right now.......(im not saying that climate change has nothing to do with this, but just very little)
 
and you think that is the major thing that is causing the earth to warm up?? water in the sky?? over hundreds of years....all of the gases that haev been released into the atmospher....where do u think they go hmm?? maybe they disappear....mabye they uhh.....go into space? NO! they either stay up in the sky... or come bak down upon us....poisioning us... if u stuck ur head in a smoke stack? wouldn't that be TASTY?? i bet u wouldn't even feel sick WHAT SO EVER.... that's what is happening to our earth.... cept on a MUCH bigger scale affecting the earth as a whole...
 
why the hell does everyone get so pissed at al gore for trying to do something good for our damned planet!!??! who gives a shit if he did make millions on his documentary, he deserves it for making a good film. people who don't deserve millions of dollars make a lot more in not so good ways.
 
This may be a retarded question by why the hell do people hat al gore? like i actuialy dont know any of your reasons...

is it cuz he's annoyingly persistant about global warming?
 
he is willing to dedicate his ENTIRE life upon the issue he deems worthy of his life... i will do the same as him...

and seriously...there is NO reason NOT to trust him....he's been in politics for how long?? about 20 years or so....and the worst they could find to try to discredit him was that he has a big car and a big house that uses alot of energy....like come on!!! POLITICS.....one of the most corrupted places in the world...and that's all they can find on him>?

pretty damn impressive...
 
nice thread bro, too bad it's fucking stupid...

When we are in a situation where right-wingers all think one thing and left-wingers all think another, there's obviously a huge issue. Climate change has nothing to do with human politics, so how about we all stop pointing fingers at our political opponents and start thinking about actual facts? I'm gonna go ahead and hypothesize that changing the chemistry of the atmosphere in any significant way is going to change the climate. I think that goes without saying... and clearly humans work well with the current climate on planet earth so we should probably try to have as little impact as possible.

Long-term climate forecasting relies on very complicated models that nevertheless are trying to model the very system that brought about the modern study of chaos. So nobody really knows what's going to happen, and there are other factors we just don't have much information about (like the "methane bubble"). But use some fucking common sense. Sure, you could shit in your room and still live in it without suffering many ill effects, but why not keep things clean and shit in the fucking bathroom?
 
Well, he doesnt have much of a personality. I guess thats not enough reason to hate someone though. I dunno, he tells you things that upset your happy little suburban life probably. Oh, that and that people think he's a hypocrite because he takes more plane trips and shit than an average American.

Speaking of which, the average American is fat and walks less than 2000 steps a day. They'll also most die from either heart or lung disease, both of which they could have prevented. The average American is kinda unfortunate.
 
veryy truee

but al gore...is not just trying to talk to americans....in the movie....u see that he has been to HUDREDS of places... doing the same thing over and ovre again....changing people's lives one city at a time...the only way he knows how (from the movie....rough quote there)

that takes SUCH a strong willpower...willing to dedicate your life to something...wouldn't u make sure what u r dedicating urself to ....is actually worth it and for that matter....true?
 
that just made my day.....it sounds SOO stupid.....but if u think of it....that's true.... we r polluting our earth....doesn't matter how or who....shouldn't we just like...clean it up??
 
EXACT records.... 1856...when they started putting it on paper.... if u didn't c the movie...they have a way to measure the temperature with suprisingly good accuracy 100's of thousands of years ago through the ice
 
this reminds me of that movie farenhype 911 which pwned michael moore, but OMG Green Day doesnt like George Bush so neither should I. I don't mind if people have a viewpoint, I just hate it when people are fucking ignorant and agree with global warming cuz its the new trend
 
ok then... taken straight outta wikipedia 'greenhouse gasses'

PART ONE

Water vapor is a naturally occurring greenhouse gas and accounts for the largest percentage of the greenhouse effect, between 36% and 90% [2]. Water vapor concentrations fluctuate regionally, but human activity does not directly affect water vapor concentrations except at local scales (for example, near irrigated fields).

BAMS_climate_assess_boulder_water_vapor_2002.png


hmmm. water vapor increasing?? temperature increasing?? hmmm.

PART TWO

Measurements from Antarctic ice cores show that just before industrial emissions began, atmospheric CO2 levels were about 280 parts per million by volume (ppm; the units

Studies using evidence from stomata of fossilized leaves suggest greater variability, with CO2 levels above 300 ppm during the period 7,000-10,000 years ago

[yes, the amount now is much greater, but the point is that it was higher before.. if you watch the video, this is explained very well]

THERE YOU FUCKING GO! mr facts??? that took me 2 minutes to look up. do your own research you mindless drone!

so please dont say proven science, and common sense where ALL this stuff comes from media outlets portraying 'the war on climate change'. have you talked to a scientist before about this??

its always '100% of scientists agree the world is getting warmer' notice the play on words, there isn't an agreement that humans are playing the major role in making it warmer
 
I havnt read everyones posts but here is a counter video that shows the "Great Global Warming Swindle" is absolute rubbish.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-1656640542976216573&q=great+global+warming+swindle

The document to go with it is here.

http://www.chase-it.com/climate/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle-A_Rebuttal.pdf

REMEMBER DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU SEE ON THE INTERNET. PEOPLE HAVE COTTONED ON TO THE FACT THAT THE TECHNO-SAVVY GENERATION ARE GULLABLE AND SO YOUNG THEY DONT HAVE THE EDUCATION OR EXPERIENCE TO QUESTION THE CLAIMS MADE.

LEARN AT SCHOOL, NOT ON THE NET!!!

(Sorry for shouting, I just wanted people to read it).
 
Well, since you so politely asked...

Water vapor is still up in the air in the scientific community. We arent sure why its increasing. It could be increased evaporation from higher global temperatures thats having a positive feedback effect on climate.

And ppm of carbon is really kinda a relative thing. Ppm can change due to a variety of factors, like local eruptions or impacts, dust storms... you kinda need something else to correlate the data. I dont contend that temps were higher in the past... so I really dont see how this helps your argument against global warming.

I've had a few classes that have touched on this topic. I've also spoken to quite a few biologists and ecologists in my department. So far, I havent found one that is not under the conclusion that we're contributing to global warming. But if you dont believe the faculty of the University of Washington, maybe you'll hold some regaurd for your beloved and publicly neutral Wikipedia:

"The detailed causes of the recent warming remain an active field of research, but the scientific consensus [9] identifies increased levels of greenhouse gases due to human activity as the main influence."

 
Water vapour in artificial clouds from aircraft causes far more global warming than CO2 in the atmosphere as it directly traps the heat not just reflect it back down to earth.

David Bellamy the bearded legend says so. And he's a bearded legend.

Also check out my new signature.
 
You're welcome. :D

Another thing you guys should realize is that just because it was this warm before doesn't mean there's nothing to worry about now. If there is a correlation between human emissions and global warming, then rest assured we are just getting started with what we can and will do before we manage to get our emissions under control, even in a best case scenario. It's important to think about it now because the train's rolling worldwide, and stopping it will take decades. And in those decades, the volume of human emissions will increase as more and more industrialization happens worldwide.

I'm not saying global warming is or is not related to us. We just don't know. I tend to think it is, but that's not important here. Scientists are working on it. But is it worth the risk? Contrary to what you might have read in "popular mechanics", humankind is not very close to being able to load onto spaceships and rocket away to safety if the earth gets fucked. We're here to stay.
 
you know what? if i could present proof i would. i have theories. also for the other side of global warming - there is no proof either, only theories.

what so few understand is that global warming isnt a fact, its a theory. now we all know that carbon dioxide absorbs heat (thats a fact) but is the carbon dioxide content in the atmosphere presented by human emissions enough to cause the warming we have seen? thats the question of global warming
 
eeeerrrr... well, given that since the industrial revolution we've seen these changes, im gonna go out on a limb that yes, us humans do indeed have an effect on the environment, and that yes, we do have that kind of power over the elements, just look at what we've done to help desertification in Africa...

The question is not whether global warming is ocurring, because it is, that's scientific fact, it's whether or not we're doing anything to contribute, and imagonna say that yes, the past decades of extreme amounts of consistent dumping of co2 and other sulphur dioxides and stuff has indeed topped the natural sustaining capacity of the earth, because that is what our data are telling us.
 
just a few facts about past climates

Lake sediment samples suggest the world might of warmed 16 degrees Fahrenheit in 50 years at the end of that last major ice age about 12,000 years ago. A paleoclimatologist suggests that Polar Regions of the earth may have been 36 degrees colder than they are now during the pre Cambrian period. During the Mesozoic the world was 18 degrees warmer than it is now. Back when man was moving out of Africa about 130,000 years ago Europe was 2-5 degrees warmer than it is now. According to our record keepings since 1880 the average world temperature has raised about 1 degree. 1 degree is what everyone is so worried about. In the last 127 years there have been many ups and downs in temperature. The temperature rose from 1880 and peaked in the 50s and the temperatures began to cool. As a matter of fact climate change was an issue in the 70’s, except it wasn’t warming they were worried about it was cooling. Some scientists were expecting the world to go into another ice age. There were articles in TIME and many other popular publications about global cooling. The temperature then started to rise but something strange happened, the warming stopped in 1998 and the temperatures slightly cooled. After the last 127 years of tracking temperatures you would think they would know by now that the averages can change by the decade. A big reason why the world is warmer now than it was in 1880 is because the earth was coming out of a small ice age.
 
I Saw Al Gore live, some of it is bullshit, but alot is true, we are the main cause, even though there are many other factors. Also this scientist from germany is devoloping this thingy where theres this metal thingy thats really tall and looks funny, but swallows enough carbon dioxide for 1000 trees. If there was like 1000 around the world, we wouldent have to worry, now wouldent that be grand.
 
Its much easier to plant 1000 trees round the world.

Its stopping people cutting down 100000 trees a day or whatever the rate is at the moment that is more important.
 
Where are you getting this information from about the lake? Thats news to me...

And yes, global warming is just a theory. So is gravity. Science is really just a bunch of theories, we're always learning something new.
 
well this evidence came from an ice core but same difference

A NEW TECHNIQUE for analyzing gases trapped in Greenland glaciers shows

that an ice age that gripped the Earth for thousands of years ended

abruptly 15,000 years ago when the average air temperatures soared.

"There was a 16-degree abrupt warming at the end of the last ice age,”

said Jeffrey P. Severinghaus of the Scripps Institution of

Oceanography, lead author of a study to be published Friday in the

journal Science. “It happened within just a couple of decades. The old

idea was that the temperature would change over a thousand years. But

we found it was much faster.”

 
Thanks, heres the full text for people interested:

(4) SCIENTISTS SPECULATE ABOUT SUDDEN END OF ICE AGE

From Andrew Yee

Scripps Institution of Oceanography

University of California-San Diego

Media Contacts:

Janet Howard or Cindy Clark, (619) 534-3624

E-mail:jehoward@ucsd.edu;

cclark@ucsd.edu

SCIENTISTS DETERMINE TRIGGER OF END OF ICE AGE

Using a new technique to analyze air trapped in ancient ice

cores,

scientists at Scripps Institution of Oceanography at the

University

of California, San Diego and Washington State University have

determined that the end of the last ice age was triggered by an

abrupt period of warming that began in the North Atlantic rather

than

in the tropics. Scientists have debated for years which region of

the

globe is responsible for triggering periods of rapid warming.

The researchers report in the Oct. 29 issue of Science that

Greenland

temperatures rose by 16 degrees Fahrenheit in less than several

decades, bringing the last ice age to a close about 15,000 years

ago.

They were surprised to learn, however, that the dramatic period

of

warming appears to have been triggered by changes in circulation

in

the North Atlantic rather than in the tropics, commonly believed

to

be the region that drives global climate change because it is

central

to the Earth's heat and water vapor budgets.

"There has been a lot of interest lately in the role the

tropics

might play in climate change -- everything from causing El Ninos

to

speculation that the abrupt warmings during the last ice age were

caused by changes in the tropics," said Jeffrey

Severinghaus, an

assistant professor in the Scripps Geosciences Research Division

who

is the paper's lead author. "These findings sort of go

against that

grain because they suggest that the North Atlantic climate

changed

first."

Using a new technique based on analysis of nitrogen and argon

isotopes in air trapped in Greenland ice, Severinghaus and Edward

Brook of Washington State University determined that the

Greenland

Summit warmed some 16 degrees Fahrenheit over a period of several

decades beginning 14,672 years ago. Analysis of methane

concentrations trapped in the ice -- an indicator of tropical

climate

-- showed, however, that temperatures in the tropics began to

climb

20 to 80 years after the onset of the abrupt Greenland warming.

"Our data clearly shows that tropical climate lags the

Greenland

climate by at least 20 years, so that means the tropics could not

have triggered the event," Severinghaus said. "Our work

doesn't,

however, rule out that the tropics could play a role in

amplifying

warming once it begins."

Determining what may trigger rapid periods of warming is of key

interest to scientists who are trying to predict what effect

adding

carbon dioxide to the atmosphere from the burning of fossil fuels

may

have on future climate.

"We know that over the next 100 years the Earth will

probably warm

because of the greenhouse effect and there is a remote

possibility

that we might trigger one of these abrupt climate events,"

Severinghaus said. "So, it is very important that we

understand the

underlying mechanisms behind them."

In order to trace how Greenland temperatures changed over time,

Severinghaus analyzed tiny air bubbles trapped within the layers

of

snow-turned-to-ice deposited in Greenland over the past hundreds

of

thousands of years. Similar to the way in which sediments are

laid

down at the bottom of the ocean, the ice cores are made up of

compacted snow layers that become older with depth. Severinghaus

focused his efforts on analyzing samples of ice taken from the

Greenland Ice Sheet Project Two (GISP 2) core covering a period

from

15,000 to 10,000 years ago.

Current methods of analyzing ice cores are plagued by the problem

that air trapped in bubbles within the ice is younger than that

of

the surrounding matrix, making the air sample difficult to

accurately

date. The problem stems from the fact that air is only trapped

within

the consolidated snow at a depth of several hundred feet below

the

surface at which point the ice may be thousands of years old.

Because

of this, it has been difficult for scientists to relate the

precise

timing of rapid warming events with concurrent changes in

atmospheric

gases.

To overcome this dilemma, Severinghaus developed a new technique

based on thermal diffusion in which he used changes in the

isotopic

ratios of argon and nitrogen in the GISP 2 core to develop a

gas-based temperature record for Greenland near the end of the

last

ice age. Brook then analyzed methane concentrations within the

same

ice samples in order to track changes in tropical climate over

the

same period.

Because the period of rapid warming was seen first at high

northern

latitudes, the two scientists propose that the end of the last

ice

age was triggered by changes in circulation of the North Atlantic

that caused heat to be transported from the equator towards

Europe

and the poles.
 
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