How to fill the gaping hole in a man's quiver left by the vacant Seth??

M

Matty_C

Active member
Please take the time to read all of this, I'd be very grateful!



Ok people, I've tried to be as thorough as possible in giving information in order to get the most accurate reccomendations from you lot!



So here it is: my brother is looking to buy a new ski for this coming season. He rides 179 Fujatives for the park, but ONLY on pure park days because he doesn't enjoy their performance outside the park... The ski he's looking for is the ski to do everything on non pure-park days.

He's about 6'1" and weighs 170lbs. He had 179 Seths last season which he found ideal for this task but broke them near the end of the season but feels he had outgrown them in any case.

He doesn't want to go to 189 because he feels they would be too big for park and we think the 08's mini rocker will hinder its performance on groomed. Therefore, the question is: "what is the ski that fits in between 179 and 189 Seths?"

Here's a breakdown of what kind of skiing he will be doing on "Ski X"...

35% Freeride/Big Mountain.

This is the Alps, so big means big. Everything from Super-G turns on huge faces, tight couloirs, mini-golf style zones, mellow trees, medium sized ( unpopular?



183 Volkl Gotama- too wide/heavy for park? piste performance?



183 Faction 3.Zero- 112mm waist too much for all-mtn? park? carving? weight?



185 Armada ARV- have they made it stiff enough this year to charge big mtn? chatter at speed on piste?



185 Rossignol Brigade- can't really think of any reservations... boring graphics...??!



186 Line Prophet 100- park performance? switch? far back mounting point?



186 Dynastar Big Trouble- too narrow to float in pow?



186 Fischer Misfit- lack of popularity/reviews?



187 4FRNT MSP- enough float in pow? too long for park?



So there it is people, thank you for taking the time to read all this. Me and my brother have spent a lot of time thinking about this and composing the thread. He would be very grateful if you would be thoughtful in your reccomendations.

Therefore, only views from people who have actually ridden the skis, and please don't just say "Ski X" or "not ski Y". Rather "Ski X, BECAUSE..."

Also, when recommending, please try to address the points I have raised about the ski in question.



THANK YOU!
 
Nice Job compiling a list. I dont think you could really go wrong with many of those skis. It's really up to your brother deciding whether he wants a soft or stiff ski(compliment or contrast the fujatives).

As far as wasit width, Anything up to 100-maybe 110 will do him fine on groomers(I plan or rocking Libtech with a 93 waist everday and my atomic pimps at 99 on pow/soft days. I would cross off the troublemaker sick ski for sure, but something a little wider will be very helpful for that big dump.
 
basically what i'm asking is "what ski is most similar to the seths to ride, but is in between the 179 and 189?"
 
The ARV is pretty soft and has the closest performance, but I think the Brigade would be the best all-around ski that doesn't get pushed around in crud
 
dude brigades and seth are both 98 underfoot, except that 185 is what your bro wants, and brigades kill it everywhere, park, pow, groomers, watever
 
yeah man, i think you're prolly right. we just wanted to hear some different perspectives on the other options...
 
i don't think you need to worry about groomers so much. If he is a good enough skier to hit that big of jumps and cliffs, there shouldn't be an issue. A skier of that ability will should be able to ski any ski on a groomer pretty damn well.

I had some 175 arv's that i really like a lot for all conditions, the only drawback i had was how they were in the heavy duty crud shit thats no fun to ski anyway. But that was the 05/06 model, so this years may perform a little better. Overall i think its a very fun ski that can do a lot. i think is underplayed in a lot of buyers guides. There was no steep piste or speed that ever held me back on the skis and i used to race FIS. Plus i think many would agree that the durability of armadas is better or just as good as any other ski.
 
off course a good skier CAN ski any ski on piste, its just a question of which ski will be the most fun. i'm sure hugo harrison would absolutely rip groomers on invaders, thats not to say he wouldn't rather be on something else.

we're looking for the right balance in a ski that he found with the seths...
 
For the JJ, yes. I have no first hand exp with these, but as JP said himself: If he had to go on a trip with only one ski to bring, those would be it. The kill it in everything.

Or something like that.
 
My guess is the ARV will still be a little soft for the big mountain type stuff. Especially in the straight lining area. I would agree that the Scratch Brigade is a good ski, the 98mm waist being the same as the Seth and all and the size falling in the middle. However, keep in mind the Scratch measures out to about a 184 and the Seth measures out to about a 182, so the difference won't be too great.

I've ridden JPs and they will both be too soft for straight lining and have too big of a turn radius for the groomers.

I would also suggest the misfit. It's the exact same ski as the 07 Atua of which my brother has a pair. Although its a tiny bit narrower in the waist I've got to say it's a hell of a good all mountain ski. Good length, nice medium flex (quite similar to the scratch) rails groomers and nice pop in the park. I'd probably make a decision between the misfit and the scratch brigade. That being said, the scratch steeze has the same dimensions as the brigade, just +12mm in all dimensions. It should still rail the groomers, but it might be a little big for the park. It will slay everything else. I'd seriously consider it. Other than that though, I'd put it between the misfit and the brigade.
 
nice review veteran. more of that please guys!

lots of positives for brigade, to be expected- anyone got any views on the others- being from europe we have little experience of msps, vcts, prophets etc. how would they be?
 
A lot of Moment team riders rock the Moment Ruby in the park.

At 112 waist though, it might be a bit large for groomers.

Big Trouble or Pimp look pretty interesting too.
 
186 fischer misfit is the same as the atua from last year, look at the old reviews and you'll find it was a picked for editors quivers in multiple magazines over the past two years, it;s a very good ski, the only thing is if 96 is fat enough for you.
 
From my experience i would say that your best bet is either the Armada JP vs Juliens. They are super light. not a huge turning radius but its not a carving ski. and 90% of the people who think that they wont like it cuz they cant turn change there mind after 1 day. its so fun and playful. Jp used it in AK and anthony uses it as his park ski. Im sure your not nearly as good as them but thats just saying that this ski can be used all over.

Also i like the Atomic Pimps. I have heard nothing but great things. havent personaly riden them but they have solid beta construction and are very light.

You might also want to look into the Salomon Gun. I have riden them as my main ski for 2 years hard on everything. Rails, bumps, knee deep pow, super light. very durable. many people might disagree becuase its a foam core but i like it more than any other ski i have riden
 
when your in the park, not really, b/c you mount close to center so a few cms really wont affect you. for the type of skiing his bro wants to do, thats when you start to notice the difference.
 
Big Troubles aren't too narrow, if he knows how to ski. Go and talk to Rhys and the boys at EB MK.
 
I would disagree. He liked the playfulness of the Seths, and the p100s are not very soft, they are more charge-oriented than flexy. They are extremely fun on groomers though because of the excellent sidecut. If he was looking for a more stiff ski I would say the Prophet 100 hands down as well, but I think he prefers soft
 
The Ruby would be fine for groomers... but I feel like the ruby is softer than what this kid is looking for... if heard people say they are softer than the lizzies.
 
I bought the Prophets for very similar purposes. Chose them over the other options mainly based on on the one ski quiver versatility.
 
I would deff say go for the prophet 100, or VCT

the 100 is deff stiffer then the seth but deff wil charge like a mother fucker

the VCT would prob be the most similar to the seth in performance, flex, but is a bit wider for extra girth which would make it my first choice for him

perhaps also look into some armada JP vs. Ju, but VCT is still top of the list in my opinion
 
I rode big troubles last season. (the 05/06) any way they were great on the groomers and i did some park on them and they were fair good at that, Maybe a tad heavy for my size. I didnt do much powder but the small patches i found they worked great and they blew through crud and slush.
 
this is great stuff guys, we really appreciate the advice. please keep it coming!

late night bump goodnight...
 
i love jpvs juliens and work just about anywhere. the mini rockjer really does nothing when i rode em. i loved msp's on jumps, really really solid and vct's were alot of fun too, didnt get to test them on jumps.
 
i think its very significant. it is the difference between the kid feeling comfortable and in control on the pair of skis, or feeling like he is being over powered and doesnt have full control
 
also, i have not ridden the 08 scratch brigade, but i have ridden the 07 scratch bc which, from all i have heard is similar. i ride the 178 not the 185 just for reference. also for reference im around 200lbs, but i like my skis a little shorter for control/comfort because i dont have alot of open faces, but mostly treed powder. at 178 the ski definetely powered through crud, but was still soft enough that jibbing and messing around was still fun. Also, it was excellent in the trees, and toward the end of the season i had a day where it started out about 12-18 inches of fresh, but was snowing so hard that the tracks were nearly filled in each run, and this was my opportunity to test them out with big open turns at speed. They were amazing. The run started out open face and i was able to go as fast as i wanted without any problems at high or low speed. then the run went into trees and the ski was responsive and quick enough to just tear it up. in the park it is a very responsive ski with good pop so on the jumps it will be very good and solid on landings. for me was managable even on rails, although it doesnt make a difference for your brother.

so, if the brigade is the 08 BC WRS, i would definetely vote brigade. (in my opinion graphics are the last thing i worry about with a ski. performance first)
 
My vote would be for the MSP's in 187. Those skis kill it. I rode my brother's when I was back home in Alaska and they are so much fun. They can really charge and they did pretty well in the pow. I didn't get to ski any park with them though because Alyeska's idea of "park" is making some 5 foot tables and a few rails at the bottom of the hill. However, they killed it on the cliffs and on BC style booters.

I've never skiied the Seths so I can't compare the two. But the MSP's would be a one ski quiver in my opinion.
 


brigade definately looking like favorite at this point.

no recommendations for gotamas yet -> too burly for piste/park?

does anyone have any more thoughts on msps or vcts? being from europe we rarely see/hear about them.

length: its not so much about being overpowered as he's a pretty strong guy and skier, but more to do with finding the perfect balance- big enough for big mtn but not too big/bulky for park.

and i realise many of the skis on my list such as msps, gotamas are way stiffer than seths. he doesn't really mind how the ski flexes, just as long as it will allow him to perform similarly to when he was riding seths..

oh, and anyone know about the factions? i know it sounds lame but if he can find a ski that works from a core brand rathen than rossignol that would be preferable but not essential...
 
interesting question: is it just not our culture/subculture to ski less than 93 waist in powder? people ski powder with 80mm skis all the time.

I'm not fighting for skiing back country with narrow skis, considering i picked up some BT's, just posing a question
 
interesting question too...

no reason why one CAN'T ski pow with narrow skis, but its just easier and more fun with fatties, and thats just how it's progressed. i think it gets silly above about 120mm though
 
why is nobody mentioning the gottamas? they were on his list, and i just ordered a pair, but they might be sold out by now. they are alot like the prophet 100s except fatter and sweeter. they are in my opinion the best one ski quiver out there (p100s in at #2). Just thought you should not rule them out cus they rip.
 
My opinions:

You want a ski that can charge "big mountain" (hate that term) terrain, ski pow, ski park and groomers.

For powder: assuming a ski of a given length (lets say 185) the softer you go the narrower waist you can have. As the ski gets stiffer you need more surface area to avoid stuffing a tip.

For park: you want a narrower ski with a softer flex and a straighter sidecut

For groomers: you want a narrower ski with a stiffer flex and more sidecut

For big mountain: you want a stiff flex and not too much sidecut.

So for groomer and park performance you are going to want a ski that is not super wide, however that means you are going to have to go softer to maintain pow performance. Softer is going to make the ski suck in crud and on hard groomers. So unless you dont ski big mountain w/o pow or groomers when icy you are going to suffer in those categories

If you are putting more emphasis on big mountain performance (in less than perfect snow) then you are going to want a stiffer ski which means wider to prevent tip dive and related pow issues. Wider and stiff are going to make the park awkward. Long sidecut, wide width and stiff flex are going to make the groomers performance go down.

For groomers you are going to want a narrower stiffer ski with a shorter radius, which will suck in all other categories you mentioned. You can also get a way with a longer radius ski which is softer (which lets it be more easily bent to a shorter radius) how ever this ski is going to still suck on groomers at mach 10 or on ice.

I think you need to pick which categories are more important than others in order to get a better recommendation.

That said my recommendations are.

More "freeskiing" : Armada ANT

More "park/bcfreestyle": Scratch Brigade/bc
 
About the Gotamas. I skiied last year's in a 183 and they were really fun. great in soft snow and not too bad edge to edge. I didn't get to try them out on "big mountain" terrain but I did ski them in the park a little and they were fine. They just take a little getting used to.
 
PhilT, i think you may be overcomplicating the issue a bit, the points you make seem to make sense on their own, but altogether aren't that useful.

^and we can't get moment, bluehouse or high society in the uk.

my and my bro both agree that brigades are looking like the best option at this point, so can anybody make a case as to why another of these ski would be better than them

Thanks :]
 
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