How old were your parents when you were born?

13551988:californiagrown said:
saskskier

At the end of the day, people will or won't have kids on their own timeline and they don't owe anyone an explanation.

Here's a pretty insensitive, but philosophically interesting question IMO: why are folks okay with older women trying to get pregnant, but horrified when an already pregnant 28 year old has a few glasses of wine, or smokes a few cigs? Both are voluntarily increasing the risk for birth defects about the same amount. Does it matter so much that it's the mother vs nature directly causing the increased risk? e

Does it matter that the increased risk in both instances are the mothers choice?
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Troll!
 
13552042:californiagrown said:
As for involuntarily waiting to have kids till later, I assume you think having children is a right, not a privilege?
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A privilege for whom? The privileged?

the privilege shouldn't only be a privilege for a certain age group...ESPECIALLY when there are healthy, active, good candidates for pregnancy who are 40 years old, and there are many unhealthy, horrible candidates for pregnancy who are younger.

It shouldn't be based on age, it should be based on health & responsibility.

There are a LOT of unhealthy, irresponsible 20-somes having babies, without insurance that have increased risks not just during pregnancy but after their child is born. Should they have more of a right to have a child than a 40 year old woman who is in good health, takes care of herself, has a solid, healthy, and stable home, has great health insurance, and is working with a doctor to ensure a healthy pregnancy? Of course not.

It isn't about age. All sorts of people are having babies at all sorts of ages. Many people having babies at the "right" age are doing it the "wrong" way.
 
13552515:Sno. said:
Troll!
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Of course. I'm tryna start a discussion. At the end of the day, both example mothers are knowingly creating children with a very increased risk of problems.

I think it comes down to if you believe having children is a privilege or a right.

I think having good health is a privilege. I think having children is a privilege. I think free will is a righ etc.
 
13552536:californiagrown said:
Of course. I'm tryna start a discussion. At the end of the day, both example mothers are knowingly creating children with a very increased risk of problems.

I think it comes down to if you believe having children is a privilege or a right.

I think having good health is a privilege. I think having children is a privilege. I think free will is a righ etc.
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Yup--and there are many young people who don't deserve to have children...just as there are older couples that do.

If you're older, and you're working through a doctor, they'll tell you your individual risk level. There are healthy women who are older who have a lower risk level than unhealthy younger women.
 
^^my point is-- if you want to place limits on who should have the right to have a child, do so based on health first, not age. On financial/home stability second..not age.

Soooooo many older women are in better health than their younger counterparts.

To assume that a younger woman is at a lower pregnancy risk...especially when that woman is drinking and smoking during pregnancy is silly.

Sure, if all things are equal...then an older pregnancy has a higher risk...that assumes all other things equal...and that just isn't reality.
 
13552530:Sno. said:
A privilege for whom? The privileged?

the privilege shouldn't only be a privilege for a certain age group...ESPECIALLY when there are healthy, active, good candidates for pregnancy who are 40 years old, and there are many unhealthy, horrible candidates for pregnancy who are younger.

It shouldn't be based on age, it should be based on health & responsibility.

There are a LOT of unhealthy, irresponsible 20-somes having babies, without insurance that have increased risks not just during pregnancy but after their child is born. Should they have more of a right to have a child than a 40 year old woman who is in good health, takes care of herself, has a solid, healthy, and stable home, has great health insurance, and is working with a doctor to ensure a healthy pregnancy? Of course not.

It isn't about age. All sorts of people are having babies at all sorts of ages. Many people having babies at the "right" age are doing it the "wrong" way.
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13552545:Sno. said:
Yup--and there are many young people who don't deserve to have children...just as there are older couples that do.

If you're older, and you're working through a doctor, they'll tell you your individual risk level. There are healthy women who are older who have a lower risk level than unhealthy younger women.
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The first and most important part of raising a healthy child is creating a healthy child. I would think a woman putting off childbirth so she can pursue her own agenda (be it career, fun, travel, etc)is as culpable for age related birth defects as a younger woman who drinks or smokes a little during pregnancy.
 
13552569:californiagrown said:
The first and most important part of raising a healthy child is creating a healthy child. I would think a woman putting off childbirth so she can pursue her own agenda (be it career, fun, travel, etc)is as culpable for age related birth defects as a younger woman who drinks or smokes a little during pregnancy.
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Did you not read what I said about working through a doctor? A doctor can determine your risk factor, and many women in their late 30's, and early 40s who are in good health have very low risk for pregnancy complications, as low or lower than their younger counterparts in average health.
 
13552566:Sno. said:
^^my point is-- if you want to place limits on who should have the right to have a child, do so based on health first, not age. On financial/home stability second..not age.

Soooooo many older women are in better health than their younger counterparts.

To assume that a younger woman is at a lower pregnancy risk...especially when that woman is drinking and smoking during pregnancy is silly.

Sure, if all things are equal...then an older pregnancy has a higher risk...that assumes all other things equal...and that just isn't reality.
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I totally agree that most older women would actually make better mothers. But I'm talking about creating a healthy child. Having a few glasses of wine while pregnant would shock and anger people, while having at kud at 40is wonderful... Even though both carry a very similar (actually the older woman probly much higher) risk of complications to the baby.
 
13552574:californiagrown said:
I totally agree that most older women would actually make better mothers. But I'm talking about creating a healthy child. Having a few glasses of wine while pregnant would shock and anger people, while having at kud at 40is wonderful... Even though both carry a very similar (actually the older woman probly much higher) risk of complications to the baby.
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You're ignoring what I said about a lot of 40 year old mom's being in actual better, physical health than many younger mothers--not just their ability to be mothers, but their physical health.

You can't automatically assume that an older woman who is pregnant has a high-risk pregnancy, and that any younger woman you see doesn't.

Watching a pregnant woman drink/smoke, is watching a woman choose unhealthy, unnecessary, and destructive vices over and at the expense of her child.

That isn't subjective...it is objective to state that drinking and smoking while pregnant is unhealthy, unnecessary, and destructive.

You can't make those statements objectively over the various life choices that determine the age of a woman's pregnancy.
 
13552585:Sno. said:
You're ignoring what I said about a lot of 40 year old mom's being in actual better, physical health than many younger mothers--not just their ability to be mothers, but their physical health.

You can't automatically assume that an older woman who is pregnant has a high-risk pregnancy, and that any younger woman you see doesn't.

Watching a pregnant woman drink/smoke, is watching a woman choose unhealthy, unnecessary, and destructive vices over and at the expense of her child.

That isn't subjective...it is objective to state that drinking and smoking while pregnant is unhealthy, unnecessary, and destructive.

You can't make those statements objectively over the various life choices that determine the age of a woman's pregnancy.
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Woman of all ages and kinds can have a high or low risk pregnancy. This is so spot on.
 
13552657:safarisam said:
Woman of all ages and kinds can have a high or low risk pregnancy. This is so spot on.
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Totally. But I think it's something like the risk of birth defects doubles past 40. And correct me if I am wrong, but it isnt common practice to terminate the pregnancy if genetic issues are found- like downs syndrome. That's not something you can catch beforehand, correct?

I guess what I am asking is can doctors tell a healthy 40 year old that she has the same risk as a healthy 28 year old? I thought it was more along the lines of, everything else equal, the pregnancy is at higher risk for older women.

Or do the studies say there is a higher risk because older women generally aren't as healthy as younger ones?

Same issues, same health, is the risk equal between the ages?
 
13552672:californiagrown said:
Totally. But I think it's something like the risk of birth defects doubles past 40. And correct me if I am wrong, but it isnt common practice to terminate the pregnancy if genetic issues are found- like downs syndrome. That's not something you can catch beforehand, correct?

I guess what I am asking is can doctors tell a healthy 40 year old that she has the same risk as a healthy 28 year old? I thought it was more along the lines of, everything else equal, the pregnancy is at higher risk for older women.

Or do the studies say there is a higher risk because older women generally aren't as healthy as younger ones?

Same issues, same health, is the risk equal between the ages?
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No. All things equal, women above 35, and especially above 40 have higher risks...rarely are all things equal, however, and they especially aren't equal if the younger one is smoking and drinking while pregnant.

You can't judge a 40 year old pregnant woman just by looking at her. You CAN judge a 28 year old with a drink in one hand and a cig in the other just by looking at her.
 
13552684:Sno. said:
You can't judge a 40 year old pregnant woman just by looking at her. You CAN judge a 28 year old with a drink in one hand and a cig in the other just by looking at her.
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Why? The younger lady might be in great health and be having her 1or 2 a week cocktail. That would likely pose about as much risk as the healthy 40 yr old doing everything right. Both are choices to roll the dice with their inborn child, right?
 
13552690:californiagrown said:
Why? The younger lady might be in great health and be having her 1or 2 a week cocktail. That would likely pose about as much risk as the healthy 40 yr old doing everything right. Both are choices to roll the dice with their inborn child, right?
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You're bending your stance-- first you started with a woman having a few drinks and a few cigs...and now its her 1 or 2 a week cocktail (assuming you're referring to the 1-2 glasses of wine per week a woman can have in her final trimester?)...that's entirely different, and not how you originally posed the question.

If you're asking about the difference between a 40 year old pregnant woman, and a 28 year old having a glass of wine in her final trimester, in terms of judgement...I'd say there isn't a difference...I wouldn't judge either one.
 
13552585:Sno. said:
You're ignoring what I said about a lot of 40 year old mom's being in actual better, physical health than many younger mothers--not just their ability to be mothers, but their physical health.

You can't automatically assume that an older woman who is pregnant has a high-risk pregnancy, and that any younger woman you see doesn't.

Watching a pregnant woman drink/smoke, is watching a woman choose unhealthy, unnecessary, and destructive vices over and at the expense of her child.

That isn't subjective...it is objective to state that drinking and smoking while pregnant is unhealthy, unnecessary, and destructive.

You can't make those statements objectively over the various life choices that determine the age of a woman's pregnancy.
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In response to this last part: I agree. That's a very good way to differentiate the two. But does that mean the woman should be trying to have a child then? Because life wasn't fair, the increased risk to another human is worth it?

I don't agree with that thinking.

Also I am pro-choice, 1000%. I don't think fetuses are humans till they actually live on their own... AKA out of the womb.
 
13552694:californiagrown said:
Also I am pro-choice, 1000%. I don't think fetuses are humans till they actually live on their own... AKA out of the womb.
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Do you see how that contradicts your side of the argument above?
 
13552693:Sno. said:
You're bending your stance-- first you started with a woman having a few drinks and a few cigs...and now its her 1 or 2 a week cocktail (assuming you're referring to the 1-2 glasses of wine per week a woman can have in her final trimester?)...that's entirely different, and not how you originally posed the question.

If you're asking about the difference between a 40 year old pregnant woman, and a 28 year old having a glass of wine in her final trimester, in terms of judgement...I'd say there isn't a difference...I wouldn't judge either one.
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Not really bending, maybe I wasn't clear in the initial question. I meant at any point in the pregnancy if you saw the woman having a few drinks(the 2 weekly) or a cig... Different reaction to a 40year old even though both would essentially be putting their baby at the the same risk all other things equal.
 
13552699:californiagrown said:
Not really bending, maybe I wasn't clear in the initial question. I meant at any point in the pregnancy if you saw the woman having a few drinks(the 2 weekly) or a cig... Different reaction to a 40year old even though both would essentially be putting their baby at the the same risk all other things equal.
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I do not even remotely equate a woman having a glass of wine in her final trimester to smoking a cigarette. You're lumping them together like they're equivalent, and to me they are so far apart they aren't comparable.
 
13552703:Sno. said:
I do not even remotely equate a woman having a glass of wine in her final trimester to smoking a cigarette. You're lumping them together like they're equivalent, and to me they are so far apart they aren't comparable.
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Okay first and second trimester. I'm on mobile(fucking PSE) so I can't look this up, but do you know the increased risk that comes from different levels of drinking/smoking?
 
There is so much conflicting information around when and how much alcohol is safe to drink during pregnancy, however no amount has proven to be safe. One drink might have adverse affects for one child and a bunch might not have an affect on another.

The fact of the matter is you can 100% guarantee your child will not have FASD is you don't drink and from what I've seen, alcohol has a far more adverse impact on a child and his/her lifelong development than smoking.
 
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