How hard is to be a dealer of a ski brand?

[Revelinyourstoke]

I think a big issue is the shops who think fitting a boot is just trying it on. If most shops instead did full fighting consumers would begin to realize what is possible from a boot and that skiing in discomfort or less then ideal boots is not how it should be. Resort shops do so well fixing up boots purchased elsewhere. If there could be more uniform type of fitting then all shops could move forward but unfortunatly shops get the idea that to make money they have to match online when instead they should be adding value to the products they sell

I agree with this to a point. For example the three boot fitters here are all either master fit or have been fitting for over 30 years. The issue is.. you have to get them in the shop to begin with. If they never walk in your door than there is no way to convince them and conduct an actual fit. I believe it is different working at a resort versus a box store out in town.

I think what Doug is getting at, and correct me here if I am wrong, is that the real issue is getting people into the shop. To do that there has to be a common understanding for even those who are skiing 5-10 days a year and know nothing about the industry, that boots need work and adjustments to fit properly. The question is, how do you do that? He used the Milk campaign which is solid because it led to a common consensus that milk is good for you and a necessity to even those who go don't drink it. How do we convert that same approach to skiers who know absolutely nothing?

Yeah resorts may be killing it, at least Whistler, but the mom and pop ski shops on access roads and in town are slowly dying. If they die, it only opens up more market space for large online retailers to grab the industry. It's going to slice the number of boot fitters in the industry and stagnate productivity and innovation. With increasing drive towards the web, even Whistler would start noticing people coming in for adjustments and not to purchase boots which would drive their revenues down. ill make the assumption that a vast amount of skiers at Whistler don't live near the mountain let alone in the area at all. So where are they purchasing their boots if the mom and pop box stores have shuttered windows?

 

[Revelinyourstoke]

And for the record, I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and think it's an important one to have.

 

[tomPietrowski]

I agree with this to a point. For example the three boot fitters here are all either master fit or have been fitting for over 30 years. The issue is.. you have to get them in the shop to begin with. If they never walk in your door than there is no way to convince them and conduct an actual fit. I believe it is different working at a resort versus a box store out in town.

I think what Doug is getting at, and correct me here if I am wrong, is that the real issue is getting people into the shop. To do that there has to be a common understanding for even those who are skiing 5-10 days a year and know nothing about the industry, that boots need work and adjustments to fit properly. The question is, how do you do that? He used the Milk campaign which is solid because it led to a common consensus that milk is good for you and a necessity to even those who go don't drink it. How do we convert that same approach to skiers who know absolutely nothing?

Yeah resorts may be killing it, at least Whistler, but the mom and pop ski shops on access roads and in town are slowly dying. If they die, it only opens up more market space for large online retailers to grab the industry. It's going to slice the number of boot fitters in the industry and stagnate productivity and innovation. With increasing drive towards the web, even Whistler would start noticing people coming in for adjustments and not to purchase boots which would drive their revenues down. ill make the assumption that a vast amount of skiers at Whistler don't live near the mountain let alone in the area at all. So where are they purchasing their boots if the mom and pop box stores have shuttered windows?

The interesting thing I think is actually doing work on boots is a good money maker. We charge $100 an hour where as staff costs for that same time is $15-18 an hour so we are making 85% margin a lot of the time which is better then selling boots. But we also benifit when they come in for adjustments and the boot is just too big to work on. Those guys end up buying new boots from us so we benifit both ways.

 

[Revelinyourstoke]

Lupo sp is $730 so with footbeds you are looking $905 before tax. The lupo ti and MTN lab have been super popular this season and both those are over $850 so boots over $1000 are pretty common this season

CAD?

 

[tomPietrowski]

CAD?

Yeah

 

[JWillySkeez]

That moment when your shop owner is a G and hooks you up with free boot work.

 

[Lil_fishy]

get fulltilts

 

[haggis_hunter]

Yeah the beacon type stuff is really interesting too. I have a buddy that is messing around with that in other industries, and I feel like some sort of implementation in the shop space in snowsports could be a game changer. There's loads of consumers out there who are using shops to check stuff out and buying online. You can make decent money as an affiliate marketer - and I wonder if there could be a whole model out there that could be applied to the physical world.

I've worked on one app that was beacon based, it was a great idea but the company behind it were a bunch of fools, never mind. The tech behind it and the possibilities are pretty cool.

Facebook have become very aggressive with their location services as well, they are actively pushing people to use them in app to harvest as much data as possible for future product building.

In terms of the ski industry is a very weird market space, I spend years working with high end motorsport product sales / marketing and its a similar space in terms that no end user 'needs' your product, you have to make them want it. 99% of the market for skiing isn't us lot. Its my GF or her dad who own one set of skis and ski a week a year. Neither of them want to pay RRP for ski kit as they use it once a year.

Also given how random the snow is getting esp in Europe I see more and more people just wanting to rent gear, theres going to be a better solution to boots in the long run as well. Personally I think the solution to boots is some way that everyone has a liner and they rent the shell, they come into the shops in resort and have a shell heated up and fitted to their liners when they rent skis. (obviously our current plastic tech isn't there yet)

 

[Mr.Bishop]

I think what Doug is getting at, and correct me here if I am wrong, is that the real issue is getting people into the shop. To do that there has to be a common understanding for even those who are skiing 5-10 days a year and know nothing about the industry, that boots need work and adjustments to fit properly. The question is, how do you do that? He used the Milk campaign which is solid because it led to a common consensus that milk is good for you and a necessity to even those who go don't drink it. How do we convert that same approach to skiers who know absolutely nothing?

Yeah nailed it. That's exactly what I'm saying. The shops need to more collectively decide upon a reason for them to add value (which could be boots) and then work as an entire unit to market themselves outwardly on that reason.

Milk: It does a body good convinced an entire generation that Milk was the best drink ever for you, and if you drank tonnes of it you'd be a superhero. New science argues that is categorically false - but morality aside it sure worked well to get people drinking milk. I read a stat that every major milk company dumped half of their marketing budget into the pool that paid for those campaigns.

 

[Chucktheweasel]

Getting people into the store is a challenge, but marketing truly does go a long way. The biggest thing is that you really do have to have an offer to get people to come in. At the same time, being known as a great boot fitter/ tuner/ service shop is a must as well. You can no longer rely on just ONE of those things. You now need them all. You MUST match prices on the internet, have GOOD inventory of what people want, and be able to service the hell out of the customer. You NEED it all.

The biggest thing that I see as a threat, especially on the east coast (other than the fact that winter hasn't been here since the 14/15 season really) is that resorts need to step up their game and bring an offer to the table. Here's the thing... in 2005 I could sell an entry level set up to a customer at $299 for a system ski, and $169 for a basic boot. Guess what... 12 years later, I can still put someone in an entry level system ski for $299 and a basic boot for $169. On the high end, think Volkl 5 Star/All Stars, $899-$999 and Tecnica Flames/Magma's $399/499. Today, Volkl RTM 81/84 $899/$999, Dalbello Panterra 120 $499. Same thing. Hell, the AR5 was what...$499? ARV 86 is now $399 and ARV96 $499.

The actual cost to go ski at a resort has almost tripled!

For a family of four, Mom, Dad, 10 year old and a 13 year old to go skiing on a Saturday, with no seasons pass/10 pack/etc it will cost that family $250 just for lift tickets for the day. Forget about rentals/fuel/lunch etc.

I get it, we all want cash flow early on. Preseason arena sales, preseason season pass sales give you a good idea of how to budget and where to spend your dollars and have bills paid by the due date. But the customer is changing. Customers are less and less reluctant to drop the coin early on. The season is getting pushed back and we have to adapt. We're all in it together. Local ski areas have to work with local shops and vice versa. More people on snow, more people in the stores. Getting local areas to offer discount passes is a challenge, but more are hoping on board. Shops have to work with them and market it.

And the shit talk about how poor this place is, how lousy that place is has to stop. For fucks sake we all decided this is the industry where we wanted to make our bed in, now we have to promote one another to remind the customers how great skiing truly is.

 

[Revelinyourstoke]

Getting people into the store is a challenge, but marketing truly does go a long way. The biggest thing is that you really do have to have an offer to get people to come in. At the same time, being known as a great boot fitter/ tuner/ service shop is a must as well. You can no longer rely on just ONE of those things. You now need them all. You MUST match prices on the internet, have GOOD inventory of what people want, and be able to service the hell out of the customer. You NEED it all.

The biggest thing that I see as a threat, especially on the east coast (other than the fact that winter hasn't been here since the 14/15 season really) is that resorts need to step up their game and bring an offer to the table. Here's the thing... in 2005 I could sell an entry level set up to a customer at $299 for a system ski, and $169 for a basic boot. Guess what... 12 years later, I can still put someone in an entry level system ski for $299 and a basic boot for $169. On the high end, think Volkl 5 Star/All Stars, $899-$999 and Tecnica Flames/Magma's $399/499. Today, Volkl RTM 81/84 $899/$999, Dalbello Panterra 120 $499. Same thing. Hell, the AR5 was what...$499? ARV 86 is now $399 and ARV96 $499.

The actual cost to go ski at a resort has almost tripled!

For a family of four, Mom, Dad, 10 year old and a 13 year old to go skiing on a Saturday, with no seasons pass/10 pack/etc it will cost that family $250 just for lift tickets for the day. Forget about rentals/fuel/lunch etc.

I get it, we all want cash flow early on. Preseason arena sales, preseason season pass sales give you a good idea of how to budget and where to spend your dollars and have bills paid by the due date. But the customer is changing. Customers are less and less reluctant to drop the coin early on. The season is getting pushed back and we have to adapt. We're all in it together. Local ski areas have to work with local shops and vice versa. More people on snow, more people in the stores. Getting local areas to offer discount passes is a challenge, but more are hoping on board. Shops have to work with them and market it.

And the shit talk about how poor this place is, how lousy that place is has to stop. For fucks sake we all decided this is the industry where we wanted to make our bed in, now we have to promote one another to remind the customers how great skiing truly is.

I'm pretty sure Volkl has done it (don't quote me on if it was them), but what about resorts offering vouchers or discounted season passes to individuals who purchase a ski package or boot from a shop with in the area? Thoughts?

 

[wrichmond]

Jason Levinthal (Line and J Skis founder) had a great idea to have one fully free ski day for never evers, gear and lesson included. As a former ski instructor, I think that's wonderful, because once someone knows how fun the sport is, they'll be willing to put up with the absurd prices to ride.

The barriers to entry a just so high.

CB used to have free skiing til Christmas, and I think that should be brought back as well.

Increasing numbers of bodies to the hill should be the priority for helping shops.