N-I-C-O-L-A-S
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Tell me your experiences, do you get money?
How hard is to be a dealer of a ski brand?
- Thread starter N-I-C-O-L-A-S
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Revelinyourstoke
Member
No.
Revelinyourstoke
Member
13786641:japanada said:
*Note: he's not talking about two pairs here.
Revelinyourstoke
Member
Also.. you are pretty much going to be forced to sell at MAP.
colder152000
Member
are you trying to open a shop or are you trying to become a sales rep? good luck making any money within either track- experience is key and it will take many failures and many, many years with no money until you see any sort of "success"
Revelinyourstoke
Member
13786660:japanada said:
Welcome to the equilibrium. Technically I could sell them for a dollar and technically I could sell them for a billion.
The majority of ski shops are having penny wars selling their shit on Amazon and eBay. To compete, you have to offer free shipping so you are introduced to USPS and FedEx who both just jacked their prices up. Eating that cost.
From there you have to pay your U-Line bill, your Amazon bill, taxes, web platform, etc. That's just for selling online. Want to open a shop? Now you have employees, infrastructure, etc.
It's a losing battle in a struggling industry.
OP, If you want to ski at all, open a golf shop. As an owner you will work the most during your busiest season.. winter.
PARTIMEVERYTHING
Member
I'd say try to get one or two legit company and a few local/smaller brands. consigne the local ski brands.
For example: tell them they can leave the skis at your shop (online or real) and if they sell on their side faster they can come and get the skis back anytime. This way its low risk for both of you and you can have a bigger inventory.
idk if that helps!
For example: tell them they can leave the skis at your shop (online or real) and if they sell on their side faster they can come and get the skis back anytime. This way its low risk for both of you and you can have a bigger inventory.
idk if that helps!
japanada
Active member
13786665:Revelinyourstoke said:
Preaching to the choir bud. Been in the industry for the better part of 10 years. Online sales are easy, its the brick and mortar part that can make or break a place. Have prices that beat the evos by a few cents and offer a great range and be sure youre up on your google results so your shop pops first.
13786665:Revelinyourstoke said:
So what is the solution?
Its a great meta question about the place of the traditional brick and mortar shop in our industry.
At the very least, I'm hard pressed to believe you'll be able to exist without somewhere to try on boots and get them fit properly.
What else?
Revelinyourstoke
Member
13786888:Mr.Bishop said:
While that would hold true for skiers such as you and I, we are simply a small sliver of the overall market. The average skier is purchasing their boots, accepting the fit, and hitting the mountain 5-10 days a season with their family. With boot guides being thrown up on sites such as Evo and Backcountry, consumers are a lot more confident ordering boots online based on their shoe size. They don't know what a true fit should feel like and are accepting a semi-uncomfortable fit.
Additionally, as general knowledge increases and new technology is developed, it is becoming easier for consumers to do their own boot work from the comfort of their couch.
Revelinyourstoke
Member
13786888:Mr.Bishop said:
Also wanted to add that it is increasingly popular for a customer to walk in, get a fit and some free information, then leave and purchase their boots online for a better price.
wrichmond
Member
13786952:Revelinyourstoke said:
2nd this with slightly more detailed stat-
According to Andy the Armada engineer from a Blister interview, the median ski days is 9
Obviously cost and access are major contributors to this, but could you imagine if the average basketball player only laced up less than once a month?
tomPietrowski
Active member
13786888:Mr.Bishop said:
Experienced staff is what makes shop succesfull. The best shops in whistler get by by offering little to no discount on products as we offer the best service and people will pay it. People, in my experience anyway, still want that service which can only be delivered by trained people. They are happy to pay more for a good and easy experience. There are countless times we have people who have got boots and other products "cheap" elsewhere and when they get to resort they find that they are not working for them. After paying how ever much to come on vacation they are more then happy to pay to just have you sort them out and get them back on the hill.
If anything online sales are keeping resort shops going, and if anything increasing our turnover, as we actually end up with more customers thanks to most people having no idea what they actually need.
tomPietrowski
Active member
13786955:Revelinyourstoke said:
if people are doing that then the bootfitter is not doing there job. Having a boot fitted and simply trying them on is a very different thing. We explain how much work goes into fitting a boot and how much it will cost if they purchase online and in nearly every case they buy from us. However we fit boots as do many shops in whistler, a service which you simply cant get online currently.
Revelinyourstoke
Member
13787040:tomPietrowski said:
The quality of the work and fit, whether through masterfit or 30 years of on the job training, doesn't stop customers from getting to the point of purchasing a boot and saying "alright, well I'm going to look around some more."
You work at a resort... in Whistler.
Clearly you can not get an actual fit done online, but what I am stating is that the vast majority of skiers DONT get an actual fit... ever. The family of three that skis 5-10 days a week and loading up on Divine 55's and Mission 60's isn't looking to spend up on boots. We just did a MAP analysis timeline on 17/18 skis and brands overwhelming target the $499-$599 system ski sales. Not a 799 soul 7 or 699 bonafide. Why? Because that doesn't target the market majority. Just as the average customer in the ski industry isn't purchasing a $500 dollar pair of boots and having them worked on. Even if they were, the $499-$599 price tag on a pair of RS 130's would be laughable when compared to the $330 price on Evo. So they need work done to the boot? Que thousands of threads and youtube videos combined with a $15 heat gun and dremel.
Don't get me wrong. As a bootfitter I completely understand where you are coming from but let's be honest here. Maybe your resort in Whistler is thriving with business, but down here in the real world.. brands, reps, shops, etc. are trying to find an angle.
Revelinyourstoke
Member
13787037:tomPietrowski said:
You work at a resort... in Whistler.
When it comes to shops.. the quality of the work and fit, whether through masterfit or 30 years of on the job training, doesn't stop customers from getting to the point of purchasing a boot and saying "alright, well I'm going to look around some more" and taking their new found knowledge to the internet.
Clearly you can not get an actual fit done online, but what I am stating is that the vast majority of skiers DONT get an actual fit... ever. The family of three that skis 5-10 days a week and loading up on Divine 55's and Mission 60's isn't looking to spend up on boots. We just did a MAP analysis timeline on 17/18 skis and brands overwhelming target the $499-$599 system ski sales. Not a 799 soul 7 or 699 bonafide. Why? Because that doesn't target the market majority. Just as the average customer in the ski industry isn't purchasing a $500 dollar pair of boots and having them worked on. Even if they were, the $499-$599 price tag on a pair of RS 130's would be laughable when compared to the $330 price on Evo. So they need work done to the boot? Que thousands of threads and youtube videos combined with a $15 heat gun and dremel.
Don't get me wrong. As a bootfitter I completely understand where you are coming from but let's be honest here. Maybe your resort in Whistler is thriving with business, but down here in the real world.. brands, reps, shops, etc. are trying to find an angle.
japanada
Active member
Our shop sells everything in store at or below what an evo or bc does and includes all the fitting one would expect to find in a good shop. That's what it will come to across the board end of story. In high volume areas it will take longer for this to happen. In the midwest and east coast it is already happening. You gotta stay competitive.
tomPietrowski
Active member
13787053:Revelinyourstoke said:
Yeah it must be different I guess. This season I have noticed the average price people are spending on boots has really jumped up. The average sale for a boot is now $800-1200. But we get plenty of people who come to us for boots. Rightly or wrongly we get people who will happily spend there money in resort as they have the expectation of better service in resort then they will get back home. Most places here will be looking at a boot, custom footbed and shell and liner work as a base fit. That is impossible to get currently online. Once you explain that the boots can't be fit fully unless work is done most people are happy to spend more to get the comfort they expect. We probably are different though. We barely sell any system skis here. Even people who only ski 5 days a year still want good equipment but I guess being in a pricy place like whistler means we get those higher end guests. But certainly so far online sales have done nothing but drive up sales for us in resorts.
Revelinyourstoke
Member
13787062:japanada said:
Yeah if we didn't sell online there would be zero chance of us surviving.
Revelinyourstoke
Member
13787063:tomPietrowski said:
Yeah we can't get away with that. We are forced to match online including all work short of a custom footbed.
Out of curiosity.. have you worked anywhere else? Just wondering how your current place compares to any others you may have worked.
Revelinyourstoke
Member
13787094:japanada said:
For sake of conversation, our RS130 and XT130 are going for $599.99 which would be just over 780 CAD.
tomPietrowski
Active member
13787094:japanada said:
Lupo sp is $730 so with footbeds you are looking $905 before tax. The lupo ti and MTN lab have been super popular this season and both those are over $850 so boots over $1000 are pretty common this season
tomPietrowski
Active member
13787118:Revelinyourstoke said:
Just in the uk in Leeds and London. Same thing there though. I have always worked for high end boot places so the expectation has always been spend more in shops to get a decent fit. I have never worked somewhere selling those 55 or 60 flex boots. We don't sell below a 100 flex for men.
TroyAntipasta
Member
13787062:japanada said:
What shop is this? Because I can't afford retail but definitely wanna hook up local shops.
Revelinyourstoke
Member
13787292:MGK said:
The majority of shops, at least on the east coast, will match online (as long as it includes shipping). The closer you are to a mountain the harder it will be.
TroyAntipasta
Member
13787294:Revelinyourstoke said:
Well my shop is pretty expensive (on East coast) plus they don't really sell a ton of stuff and what they do sell evo rarely has a deal on... Probably for that reason
Revelinyourstoke
Member
13787296:MGK said:
where are you? Just curious as to how much it varies based on location.
TroyAntipasta
Member
13787297:Revelinyourstoke said:
Upstate NY, specifically Albany
Revelinyourstoke
Member
13787298:MGK said:
So do you purchase most of your shit online because of those prices? Do you ever have boot work done?
FYI there is nothing wrong with that if you do and I think you fall into the vast majority.
TroyAntipasta
Member
13787300:Revelinyourstoke said:
Personally I go there to get my boots fitted and buy them there as well as getting my skis mounted there, however, usually anything else gear wise I buy online for the price and convenience. I almost bought a mtn bike from them but they sold it already.
13786955:Revelinyourstoke said:
You know, there's a model online for this which should be applied to ski shops.
Online, you can do "Affiliate Marketing" where as a website you provide all kinds of helpful information to a reader to help them make a purchase decision. They are then given a cookie, which gives you around 10% of the sale if they buy from a shop within the next 90 days.
The online retailers should work out something like this for brick and mortar shops.
tomPietrowski
Active member
13787642:Mr.Bishop said:
What the shops add is somthing online can't, personal fitting. If you just buy a boot online you still need it moulding and chances are you will need some shell work done along with replacing the stock insoles. We basciacally tell people we charge $100 an hour for this work if they purchase the boot else where and all work will be charged. When they learn this and also that all work for 1 whole year is covered in the cost of buying a boot in store next to no one looks at buying online as finically it's just not a good option. Skis can be harder as a ski is a ski and other then mounting needs no work but again offering a free mount if purchased in store helps but ski sales drive less business then boot sales even though you make more margin as it's a much faster sale. Shops that do the best are the ones that fit boots well. Do that well and you will have a constant stream of customers.
13787726:tomPietrowski said:
Boots really seem to be the place where the modern ski shop could make a big difference. There should be a coalition of shops that get together to market the idea of getting boots fitted properly. Make it so that people joining the sport for the first time are really educated on how shitty of an idea it is to not get your boots properly fit.
TroyAntipasta
Member
13787735:SammyDubz said:
Yup you got it, where are you living now?
SammyDubz
Active member
13787843:MGK said:
student at Notre Dame
I like high adventure personally. they've always been great to me in terms of bootfitting. I agree that their selection is a little small, but then again it's a small shop. They do have some good sales in the off season, so I try to keep an eye out for those.
TroyAntipasta
Member
13787849:SammyDubz said:
Yeah I usually go to them although I haven't gone in a few years (I've worn the same boot for the last 3 years),but I'll probably be getting new boots next season. Gold stocks also has one or two pretty good bootfitters
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13787849:SammyDubz said:
13787856:MGK said:
Great bootfitter relatively close to Albany is Marc Stewart up at Windham. Dude is super busy all the time so scheduling a time is a must, but he is super chill about working on boots he can't get for you/purchase elsewhere.
Not sure about preseason or post-season sales, but worth checking out if you need a fit.
SammyDubz
Active member
13787861:.MASSHOLE. said:
I'm in no need of a new bootfitter lol high adventure has fitted me and done great work on my boots time and time again...know the guys well, extremely friendly, and always willing to go the extra mile for me. If something happens to happen though I'll make sure to check him out.
Casey
Active member
13787757:Mr.Bishop said:
I hate to play devil's advocate here, because you are completely right, but a lot of people like myself will not pay MSRP for anything out of principle. So if your average shop could swing last year's stuff at near cost the way the internet seems to do so well, they would be getting a lot more business IMO. Like maybe if the MTN Labs weren't literally 800 dollars I could afford to support EVO like a good steward of the industry. But I can't, and maybe a couple tax brackets from now I will have the privelage of dropping that kind of coin to support other people's lifestyle choices, but not today. Fuck that.
Revelinyourstoke
Member
13787757:Mr.Bishop said:
That is my entire point. The main life line is bootfitting. The issue is, the majority of the mass market DONT get their boot fitted and just accept it for what it is due to lack of knowledge.
That is a good concept, but how does it happen?
haggis_hunter
Member
13787641:Mr.Bishop said:
Its getting that way, (I work in SEO / Content dev), the biggest hurdle to overcome is app / hardware / location info sharing / accuracy. Googles really been pushing its location services and really updating the way its maps API works in the last few months. Once its all able to sync up it will be a case of programmers getting on board and developing methods to make it really work for the end users (customers and business).
13787894:Casey said:
I mean if your business relies on people paying full price because they're nice, you're gonna have a bad fucking year. That just isn't how the world works. The key is to offer some value for that price, or figure out how to make money while matching prices. The internet is great for getting good prices, but online shopping still has a lot of holes which brick and mortar are great at. My main point is that less shops need to be sitting around complaining that the internet ruined their business, and either taking action in a way that they can offer extra value, or just throwing in the towel and giving up.
Sucks - but that is how the market works in business.
13787931:Revelinyourstoke said:
There's loads of examples of industries getting together to market to consumers. Take the Milk Industry's Body by Milk campaign. I grew up with the "Milk: It does a body good" propoganda and fully believed that my massive milk consumption was everything that made me a strong human being.
Ethics of that aside - that is an example of an industry banning together, pooling marketing resources and aggressively going out to convince consumers they need something. This shit works.
You'd have to either start talking to shops, or approach an organization that oversees all shops. (SIA?) Its the scale you can get from all branding together and coming up with some message to push out to mass consumers which would convince them that there is a reason they MUST use brick and mortar shops.
13788037:Lamafama said:
Yeah the beacon type stuff is really interesting too. I have a buddy that is messing around with that in other industries, and I feel like some sort of implementation in the shop space in snowsports could be a game changer. There's loads of consumers out there who are using shops to check stuff out and buying online. You can make decent money as an affiliate marketer - and I wonder if there could be a whole model out there that could be applied to the physical world.
Revelinyourstoke
Member
13788074:Mr.Bishop said:
To the first point; You make a solid statement, although at the same time his view resembles the vast majority of the market. There has to be a reason why individuals would NEED to go to a ski shop for a boot fitting. Until ski boots are being 3D printed on the spot or liners are being created on the spot there is no NEED to go to a shop as they are usable out-of-the-box. It seems as though there has been a solid campaign for getting your boots fit by a boot fitter but that may not apply to a majority unless they go into a shop and speak with someone who knows what they are talking about. For that to happen they have to walk into the shop. So how do we campaign and reach a market that is in the shadows until they hit purchase or walk into a shop?
I'm curious as to what the average prices are for boots online compared to in a shop and I may do some looking into it, but this is the age of the internet and it will be hard to fight that.
tomPietrowski
Active member
13788166:Revelinyourstoke said:
I think a big issue is the shops who think fitting a boot is just trying it on. If most shops instead did full fighting consumers would begin to realize what is possible from a boot and that skiing in discomfort or less then ideal boots is not how it should be. Resort shops do so well fixing up boots purchased elsewhere. If there could be more uniform type of fitting then all shops could move forward but unfortunatly shops get the idea that to make money they have to match online when instead they should be adding value to the products they sell