How enviromentally responsible are the ski companies that we buy from?

chicken

chicken

Active member
No heated global warming debates here. I think pretty much anyone can agree that it will do no harm for the industry to move towards developing more sustainable products. The only way this will happen though is through our decisions at the ski shop.

Look at the surf industry, there has been an absolute revolution which was driven mainly through the voice of the consumers. If you go on to any surf companies website, there will be a link right up there explaining what the companies are doing for the environment.

I don't really know what i'm trying to get at. What I think would be awesome is if we could collaborate and do some unbiased research on the materials, production and transportation of goods from various ski brands. Then make sure to information out to everyone.

I know a lot of companies use bamboo which is much more sustainable than hardwood. I am wondering about base material as well, I know that wetsuits can now be made from plant-based neoprene. Is there anyone using base materials like this. Also what companies are locally producing skis, and what ones are flying half-way around the world to reach you? This is the kind of stuff we keed to know.
 
well obviously we can't be perfect. Our sport is not the greatest for the enviroment. That does not mean we can not work towards being better.
 
Well base materials are made through chemical reactions, not really sure what or if side products that are harmful result. And companies will not "go green" until it will be profitable for them. There most likely are slightly cleaner was to do some of this stuff but it would cost more.
 
think less so about ski production, and more so on energy consumption by ski resorts and what they can do to make it more green. Think the vast amount of energy that a chairlift or a gondola uses a season just to keep in operation. Resorts need to start implementing the use of renewable energy sources. I think some resorts may use HEP from melt water and mountain rivers but is that really enough?
 
I go for the ones that run off coal energy, that feed waste into the rivers because that saves on manufactufacturing costs

The environment is something that gets in the way
 
plus, cant beat that coal fresh scent on your products. Rugged Portrait! Industrial reality! Feed the machine! Harvest the ruins!
 
Bases are made from polyethylene which is derived from ethylene which the major/only supplier is the oil industry either from distillation from crude directly or from hydrocarbon cracking reactions.

the problem with replacing polyethylene is that it's a super resilient and durable plastic that few other materials can match in properties. i'd be interested to hear from anyone that knows about the use of any other polymer in the base.

the other kicker is that most polyethylene blends used for ski bases have graphite doped into the matrix which i'm guessing is in the form of carbon black. you can do a quick google search and find some SERIOUS environmental issues associated with carbon black production and health issues found in communities near the plants. one notable plant in the news is Continental Carbon in Ponca City, OK. (NPR story found here http://www.npr.org/2011/11/07/141990498/powdery-pollution-coats-oklahoma-town)
 
It's really sad, but a lot of consumers shy away from buying eco-friendly sporting good products. Atomic had a super eco-friendly ski boot a couple of years ago called the Renu: Pebax construction, recycled foam material in the liner, renewable materials wherever possible, soy based inks... But so few people bought it, that it was canceled after 2 years.

Hopefully it can come back, perhaps it was a bit ahead of it's time...

1639kib_27.jpeg
 
even if the whole whole ski industry wen green, it wouldn't do that much. You're big contenders are cars and stuff like that. not everyone skis, but tons of people drive.
 
We should be more concerned about that Chinas doing.

20080211-tpdipnsapr976gqq1ywiwtai8i.jpg


but yes it is in the best interest of ski companies to care about the environment.

 
Pebax is more Eco-friendly than polyurethane, but it is a much more expensive material. So there was a slight premium on the Renu but we tried to make it as manageable as possible. I believe it was priced in the USA for $599 (98mm last, 110 flex). But the real problem was convincing dealers and end consumers that they weren't sacrificing anything by switching to a Eco-friendly design, which they weren't. In fact, Jossi loved the boot and skied it for those two years.
 
Killington just started putting out separate trash bins for contaminated food products and then recyclables like plastics, cans, and paper stuff which is pretty cool.
 
That thing is another tourist attraction and not much else. Yeah we see it spinning every now and then but it doesnt produce anywhere near as much power as they thought it was going to. They didnt factor in that Grouse is shorter than its surrounding mountains... i still wanna check out the viewing pod sometime tho.
 
I am currently a voluntary member of the Environmental Working Group for the Ski Club of Great Britain and am really interested in our sports and its relationship to the environment so anything that is interesting on this thread I am probably going to note down.

Given that I have a background in politics and international development I would really appreciate any help I can get from guys like you who work in the industry or others who have knowledge of a more scientific nature as everything I know will make me better at what I do and the projects that I help manage and develop.

Also, if I asked you really super nicely would you see if Atomic had any

kicking around that I could buy? I would totally be keen to rock highly

recycled boots. PM me if you think it would be possible.
 
Ah ok,that makes sense then. I did a fair bit of research into sustainability in the building industry when I was at uni and found that people were willing to invest in new sustainable technology as long as it was cheaper initially or provided a greater return on investment in the long term through reduced maintenance and running costs.

I suppose it would be hard to replicate that model with a ski boot unless you were to come up with a return and rebate scheme that in the long term made the boot cheaper than regular boots.

E.g. You design a boot that can be almost completely recycled and remade into a new boot for less cost than using virgin materials. Then you price the boot a little higher than a regular boot to cover the initial cost of production but offer the customer the option of a cash rebate or discount on their next set of boots if they send them back to you at the end of the boots life.

 
This is sadly true for the most part. Which is why we need the knowledge to help us make informed decisions. If the skiers demand more sustainable products, the industry will be forced to move in that direction.

That being said, there are for sure companies out there that realize they need to be environmentally consciousness whether or not the consumers demand it. I bet most of these companies are smaller brands but there are still some giants who are doing it (example: Patagonia).
 
how did you guys not market the crap out of this boot? i've worked in a shop for 11 years and never even heard of this, granted we didn't carry atomic then. how does pebax flex compared to polyether used in higher end boots? if you guys bring this back out, i'm super interested, if it fits and skis as well as my rx130s lv's.

also, props to ON3P for hopping on the bamboo train. my jeffrey's have been nothing but awesome thus far!
 
rossi plants a tree in the same spanish town their factory is in for every tree they cut down to make wood cores. theyve always done it but are just now putting the renewable something or other logo on their skis
 
shameless plug... but i got to help shoot this video on a pretty major push that tnf has been doing in this exact area. pretty rad stuff they have going on. blue sign is a major factor in this and if you hear of any company involved with them, you should be stoked!

/images/flash_video_placeholder.png

 
Marketing has never been our strong point (unlike our sister Salomon who markets the shit out of everything) but we're getting better at it. Especially for 12/13. We actually made Tracker versions of this too eventually, but they were cancelled before production even started due to so few shops preordering it.

As Atomic continues to grow in the boot world (we have the #1 & #2 boots in the USA right now according to the latest SIA report /claim) and dealers want more boot options from us, perhaps this style of boot can make a comeback in our range. I hope so, it is a super good idea...
 
I don't understand why with the inclusion of reco patches on the majority of high end new ski gear that companies haven't thought that maybe they could do something with ski passes. Every year think how much paper is wasted every year printing tens of thousands of ski passes across the globe. Why could a patch not be installed by manufacturers into jacket sleeves that acts with the magnetic inserts that allow us to use the chairlifts. The patches could then just be charged up by going to the base of the mountain and having a the ticket booth scan your patch to activate it versus giving you some sort of paper based based that works in pretty much the same way.
 
Pebax is the same material used in tele & A/T boots (Scarpa, Garmont, BD, etc) so the performance is there. The problem with injection molding (how ski boots are made) is that molds are designed with a certain plastic in mind. So, if you create a boot mold for Polyurethane it has a certain wall thickness optimized for PU. So if you inject Pebax into that PU mold, the wall thickness isn't ideal for Pebax and this can lead to softer flexes. This is why the stiffest we could make the Renu was a 110, not a 130. We would have needed to make a dedicated Pebax mold for the Renu boot to reach 130, but that would have meant it would only work for Pebax and therefore only available in a high end construction ($600+)

This is why you can't make a Black Diamond Factor for $350- the mold only works for expensive Pebax.
 
Ive found the pebax on my scraps mobes very soft, like they scratch and gouge easily.

Can you comment on that? It seems like a softer material
 
Or you could incorporate these materials into your regular boots and not make such a big deal out of it.

The biggest reason it didnt work is because its trying too hard to promote green hippy renewable ideas and people probably dont want to be singled out on the mtn maybe. Also the boot you used is for high performance skiers, who the majority are very picky. I think youd have more success with a B series or an LF.

If you just used these materials and just branded and coloured them like regular, noone would notice. They would stay "cool" and I doubt the price would even be a factor.

I feel thats what will really move sustainability in boots forward.
 
If they buy carbon coupons or whatever Ill slap them in the face with my dick.

If they use recycled materials and environmentally safe approach to production i'll shake there hands
 
Our primary reason for using 100% bamboo cores is more to do with the flex pattern and life the material gives the ski, but its a nice eco bonus, sure. Take it from me, making skis is a dirty and nasty job, but any small thing you can do (using non toxic epoxy, recycling our bamboo waste, etc) is sweet.
 
Vail Resorts is moving towards something similar. This year most passes purchased directly from Vail Resorts are printed on "durable" plastic cards instead of on paper. Not quite what you suggested but pretty similar.

 
A lot of the bigger french resorts have the electronic passes on card and those are recyclable. They have bins near the ticket desks and lifts for your old ones.

Invariably though I find them many weeks after when I am going through my pockets and cleaning out my skiing gear at the end of the season.

That's another point to think about. A lot of making skiing environmentally responsible is definitely on us, the skiers, we love taking chairlifts and flying to resorts and such like maybe its time we started travelling by train and getting into touring?

Personally, I'm going to try and get more into the touring side of things just seems to me that there is so much stuff to be skied out there it would be sad not to.
 
ski equipment is already expensive enough please dont get enviromentalists and govt reform envolved all that will do if give us shitty quality products and even high prices.
 
The real question is... Are we the consumer ready to pay more for the cost of the externalities associated with making more eco friendly/ organic products?"

After studying sustainability along side with economics and business strategy, the effort of going more green essentially is on the consumer to pay more so the resorts, manufacturers, and shipping companies are able to afford the change to be more sustainable.

It is a very complicated matter because the average consumer (at this point) cannot afford to always buy the eco friendly or green products due to the externality cost which raises the prices substantially.

Go to your local grocery store and look for organic milk or eggs, and compare to non organic you will see a significant difference.

Don't get me wrong companies can definitely work on doing less cost affecting practices to be more sustainable, with packaging, going paperless, some materials, and energy saving techniques and equipment.

 
Really? This is your input? On what basis will it give us shitty products? Several posts above touch on how good quality certain environmentally sustainable products are.

And high prices? Please, prices are going up anyway on everything from food to petrol to public transport. Skiing never was and is never going to be a cheap sport to be part of.
 
first off, im assuming that any chemical compound or fabricated materials would be far superior to enviro products why else would they make them.

lol and your statement about high prices is so passive its embarrassing that people like you just let companies hike prices, just giving them more excuses to raise already astronomical prices
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top