Hilary Clinton: Our New President!

[qazwsxedc34]

Because when you are given a choice between 2 different options (ignore for a second that not voting is an option), then one of those options will be closer to the right answer than the other, however slight it may be. Even if a vote for Hillary is a vote for the military industrial complex, it is highly arguable that she would do less damage with it than Trump would. And in that way she is not as bad as Trump.

I’m sick and tired of this way of thinking. None of the options will be closer to the right answer. These candidates do not support the common person, Hilary, especially has a track record of flip-flopping. She swindled her way to where she is today and should not be trusted, let alone be our next president. It isn’t really highly arguable that she would do less damage than trump because we can only speculate. Nevertheless, Hilary will be just another marionette for the corporations, defense contractors and arm industry, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[ESB]

Californiagrown is getting a lot of hate but what he's saying is correct, even if it's not worded in the nicest way.

Just what I wanted to say. Californiagrown is delivering some political realism for the grown-ups in the room.

Bernie Sanders is fucking rad (as in radical) and should probably be president, but unless you and everyone you know, and everyone they know, mobilize now as unpaid volunteers to convince the majority of Republican voters that Bernie Sanders' interests actually coincide with theirs (which they do), and simultaneously figure out how to outmaneuver the Clinton machine for the Democratic nomination, then the best that Bernie can do is continue to voice his issues, keep his agenda alive, and bow out when the time comes.

Trump has changed the landscape and is apparently capable of redefining who is unelectable and who is not, and as long as he's still in, all bets are off.

 

[MLB]

Just what I wanted to say. Californiagrown is delivering some political realism for the grown-ups in the room.

Bernie Sanders is fucking rad (as in radical) and should probably be president, but unless you and everyone you know, and everyone they know, mobilize now as unpaid volunteers to convince the majority of Republican voters that Bernie Sanders' interests actually coincide with theirs (which they do), and simultaneously figure out how to outmaneuver the Clinton machine for the Democratic nomination, then the best that Bernie can do is continue to voice his issues, keep his agenda alive, and bow out when the time comes.

Trump has changed the landscape and is apparently capable of redefining who is unelectable and who is not, and as long as he's still in, all bets are off.

This scares me and the rest of the free world. Trump just scares the living shit out of me. Literally this dude would FUCK up your country and the rest of the world up so bad.

The fact is literally Bernie is the lesser of all the evils. All of them. Like he is the most reasonable candidate of them all...and how Americans don't see that blows my mind.

 

[skierman]

brah its called unelectable.

think like an actual adult. Right now youre speaking like a head in the clouds, not in reality 18 year old.

Brah its called not thinking like a jackass. Try it sometime.

 

[californiagrown]

Brah its called not thinking like a jackass. Try it sometime.

Brah, youre not my brah. Oh, and also, you must have a lot of hate for this world if you think im thinking like a jackass. Its a shame youre too much of a lazy POS to try and change that.

 

[onenerdykid]

I’m sick and tired of this way of thinking. None of the options will be closer to the right answer. .

I'm not thrilled about it either, but in a shitty 2-party system you have to at some point be a realist about this. If a vote for either is still a vote for the military industrial complex, but Trump is a racist, highly bigoted, divisive leader and Hillary is not these things then how can you reasonably say that Hillary is not a better option than Trump? Trump is clearly more corrosive for this country's unity than Hillary.

In 2000, I didn't vote. I honestly thought that a vote for any one of the candidates was a vote a rigged system and ultimately it wouldn't matter. But it did matter and we got stuck with George Bush for 8 years, whom experts/historians rank as the 38th best president (which puts him in the category of worst presidents). Now we have Obama, and while I do not think he is perfect (far from it but will most likely rank around 17th), he is CLEARLY a better option than Bush.

Info on Presidential Ranking:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/23/contemplating-obamas-place-in-history-statistically/?_r=1

In a 2-party system (let's face it, our system totally is), you will inevitably be faced with a choice between 2 people. If you vote 3rd party or write-in a choice, it is really not helping keep a lesser good option out of office. And when faced with the choice between 2 options, it is completely unreasonable to think that one option is not going to be better than the other.

 

[ImNotARacist]

It has already been decided. We will have our first Jewish Independent president this time next year.

 

[onenerdykid]

But what about Cruz, Carson, rubio, etc?

Trump won't get the nomination because he is unelectable as well. How does Bernie poll against the other frontrunners on the right?

Here is another poll, from the same source that says Bernie wins against GOP front runners:

"Sanders does just as well, or even better, against top Republicans:

Topping Trump 49 - 41 percent;

Getting 44 percent to Rubio's 43 percent;

Beating Cruz 49 - 39 percent;

Leading Carson 47 - 41 percent."

Poll data from 2 December 2015:

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2307

 

[californiagrown]

Here is another poll, from the same source that says Bernie wins against GOP front runners:

"Sanders does just as well, or even better, against top Republicans:

Topping Trump 49 - 41 percent;

Getting 44 percent to Rubio's 43 percent;

Beating Cruz 49 - 39 percent;

Leading Carson 47 - 41 percent."

Poll data from 2 December 2015:

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2307

here are some other polls. that are up-to-date. And not from 1 pollster.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_presidential_race.html
http://www.270towin.com/2016-polls/2016-general-election-matchups/

 

[onenerdykid]

here are some other polls. that are up-to-date. And not from 1 pollster.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_presidential_race.html
http://www.270towin.com/2016-polls/2016-general-election-matchups/

Both polls I posted were both from this month, which is rather up-to-date.

Regardless, the first link you show has Sanders winning (RCP average) against Trump, Cruz, Carson, Bush, and Florina and only losing to Rubio in a general election. Hardly as unelectable as you claim.

The 270 to win polls show a bit more of a different picture, with Sanders still faring quite well. In these he loses more general elections, but usually in a close race.

 

[californiagrown]

Both polls I posted were both from this month, which is rather up-to-date.

Regardless, the first link you show has Sanders winning (RCP average) against Trump, Cruz, Carson, Bush, and Florina and only losing to Rubio in a general election. Hardly as unelectable as you claim.

The 270 to win polls show a bit more of a different picture, with Sanders still faring quite well. In these he loses more general elections, but usually in a close race.

the poll you posted was from before the past two debates, AND from before the san bernadino shooting. That isnt up-to-date. But that should be beside the point.

Bernie has the kind of policies that will mobilize the conservative voting base, similar to how Trump would mobilize the liberal voting base. The negative attack adds against Bernie will easily paint him as a radical liberal- largely because many of his policies are. It will crush him.

He is just too far from center.

 

[ImNotARacist]

We will have our first Jewish president next November.

 

[ImNotARacist]

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-bl...blockbuster-poll-sanders-destroys-trump-by-13

"It is noteworthy that in this Quinnipiac poll, Sanders runs so much stronger than Clinton against Trump. It is also noteworthy and important that both Sanders and Clinton run so far ahead of Trump in general election match-up polling. And it is profoundly important and revealing that Sanders would defeat Trump by such a huge margin — 13 points in this poll — that analysts would be talking about a national political realignment and new progressive era in American history if an enlightened candidate such as Sanders would defeat a retrograde race-baiting candidate such as Trump by a potentially epic and historic margin."

 

[ImNotARacist]

You know, it isn't like he was the mayor of Burlington VT, spoke in classes I attended, and had a rabid following in Vermont. That never happened.

And no, assholes are assholes, regardless of what state they are from.

Good lord you are thick.

The masses dipshit, the masses. Bernie was an unknown.

From my experience people from the East Coast are a special kind of asshole, especially people from the Philly area. You are a stereotypical, pompous east coast yup who's got it all figured out. I bet you have a beard and grew up near Boston...

Also, you critizining Bernie's understanding of politics and economics, as if you are more qualified and intelligent than him or anyone on his campaign staff, proves how insanely pretentious you are.

 

[.MASSHOLE.]

Good lord you are thick.

The masses dipshit, the masses. Bernie was an unknown.

From my experience people from the East Coast are a special kind of asshole, especially people from the Philly area. You are a stereotypical, pompous east coast yup who's got it all figured out. I bet you have a beard and grew up near Boston...

Also, you critizining Bernie's understanding of politics and economics, as if you are more qualified and intelligent than him or anyone on his campaign staff, proves how insanely pretentious you are.

Well you did not state "the masses", you phrased it as if you were saying he came out of left field. He had actually generated quite a bit of buzz for some of his older statements but you wouldn't know that would you?

Beard? No. Near Boston? Well, when you are from MA everything is "near Boston".

I am not criticizing his understanding, merely his plans to fix the supposed problems. And in no place did I claim I was smarter or more qualified, I merely said I do not agree with his solutions, they are very idealistic.

But one thing I am confident on is that his statements on the Fed have shown ME that perhaps he does not understand how the Federal Reserve fully functions, nor does he understand the manner in which other Central Reserve Banks work.

So please, grow the fuck up, stop with the ad-hominem attacks, and have an open mind. I never once have criticized you for supporting Sanders, I merely state my feelings on his ideas and why I do not agree with you or him.

 

[ImNotARacist]

But what about Cruz, Carson, rubio, etc?

Trump won't get the nomination because he is unelectable as well. How does Bernie poll against the other frontrunners on the right?

Look babe, you are out of touch.

Thick thick thick thick think you are.

Troubled you may be.

Antisemitic you are.

we are going from a black Muslim to an old white Jew and there is nothing you can do about it. The decision has been made. Trump is going to help voter turn out but it will not be for him. You see even the most lethargic people are going to have a hard time not voting after all the atrocities Trump has commited. Even the most lethargic people wont allow the gop to win after allowing trump to represent them in the media for an entire year. Bernie will draw the youngest voting population in history, just like Obama. Republicans support Bernie and if you don't see that then you are blind my friend.

Two reasons why Bernie is EXTREMELY electable.

1) He has worked both sides of the Isle and has support across the political spectrum.

The Lifelong Republicans Who Love Bernie Sanders

Bernie Sanders Is a Loud, Stubborn Socialist. Republicans Like Him Anyway.

2) The Millenials vote is larger than any other demographic and Bernie is in sync with almost all Millenials.

'We Will Not Be Tricked': Why Millennials Really Love Bernie Sanders
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/01/16/this-year-millennials-will-overtake-baby-boomers/

 

[.MASSHOLE.]

Good lord you are thick.

The masses dipshit, the masses. Bernie was an unknown.

From my experience people from the East Coast are a special kind of asshole, especially people from the Philly area. You are a stereotypical, pompous east coast yup who's got it all figured out. I bet you have a beard and grew up near Boston...

Also, you critizining Bernie's understanding of politics and economics, as if you are more qualified and intelligent than him or anyone on his campaign staff, proves how insanely pretentious you are.

http://www.thenation.com/article/sanders-president-talk-real-enough-bernies-not-going-there/

http://www.thenation.com/article/how-does-bernie-sanders-do-it/

Would you look at that?

WOW

 

[ImNotARacist]

Well you did not state "the masses", you phrased it as if you were saying he came out of left field. For ALOT of people in Republican states and the west coast in general. he came out of nowhere

But one thing I am confident on is that his statements on the Fed have shown ME that perhaps he does not understand how the Federal Reserve fully functions, nor does he understand the manner in which other Central Reserve Banks work.

This is why I question you. You truly believe that you have a better understanding of the fed and central banking than a lifelong politician and that's troubling to me.

I'm not attacking your character, I'm attacking your judgement, because it is questionable.

 

[ImNotARacist]

Well you did not state "the masses", you phrased it as if you were saying he came out of left field. For ALOT of people in Republican states and the west coast in general. he came out of nowhere

But one thing I am confident on is that his statements on the Fed have shown ME that perhaps he does not understand how the Federal Reserve fully functions, nor does he understand the manner in which other Central Reserve Banks work.

This is why I question you. You truly believe that you have a better understanding of the fed and central banking than a lifelong politician and that's troubling to me.

I'm not attacking your character, I'm attacking your judgement, because it is questionable.

 

[ImNotARacist]

http://www.thenation.com/article/sanders-president-talk-real-enough-bernies-not-going-there/

http://www.thenation.com/article/how-does-bernie-sanders-do-it/

Would you look at that?

WOW

I have no idea what you are trying to prove.

 

[Brule.]

We will have our first Jewish president next November.

Not to mention the oldest president, beating Reagan as the oldest president (Bernie is turning 75 next year).

 

[.MASSHOLE.]

I'm not attacking your character, I'm attacking your judgement, because it is questionable.

A lifelong politician doesn't mean crap when it comes to understanding monetary policy.

Should a doctor be able to tell a molecular biologist how the cells in a human body work? I mean he deals with the human body all the time.

There is a reason the Federal Reserve has zero direct political influence. Politicians aren't economists.

And I can question your judgement too. You're following a man who thinks that having the banks pay to hold reserves is any different than the system in place already. Clear lack of understanding.

Additionally he thinks having "the common man" serve on arguably the single most important institution in the world is a good idea. Call me stupid but I sure as hell don't think having someone without a PhD in economics or finance should serve on a committee that has that power.

I have no idea what you are trying to prove.

That he was not an anomaly. Anyone who even remotely followed the political landscape heard about his stand on the floor in 2011 against the Bush tax cuts. And then in 2012 he had a rather large following as an independent.

 

[ImNotARacist]

I never said he was an anamoly. Go read my initial comment to californiagrownparanoid. I said that I was savvy enough to see that he would become very very popular. my only comment was that to some he came out of nowhere. To some. I thinks it's safe to assume that I wasnt referring to well educated and politically active people when I said that.

You got me wrong bro.

 

[ImNotARacist]

So who is a more viable candidate?

Bernie? whose policies are so radical they have no fucking chance in hell of being put into place, let alone the guy getting more than 20% of the general vote.

Trump? the frontrunner in the Republican party? yeah. thats a great option.

Who is the better option than hilary? seriously, use adult, real world thinking here.

My Adult Real World thinking tells me that there are many many other options that are better than Hillary and even Bernie but thanks to the GOP, the media, greedy billionaires, greedy politicians, and an overall lethargic population, those candidates have zero chance of being elected.

Your logic is that it is more important to preserve the democrats place as head of the state by going with the most electable.

This is a popular Anti Bernie argument that is based on here-say.

What isn't based on here-say is that Hillary is not trusted by a large portion of voters in the Democratic Party and and even larger portion in the GOP

Also, you need to control your micro-aggressions Bro.

 

[californiagrown]

My Adult Real World thinking tells me that there are many many other options that are better than Hillary and even Bernie but thanks to the GOP, the media, greedy billionaires, greedy politicians, and an overall lethargic population, those candidates have zero chance of being elected.

Your logic is that it is more important to preserve the democrats place as head of the state by going with the most electable.

This is a popular Anti Bernie argument that is based on here-say.

What isn't based on here-say is that Hillary is not trusted by a large portion of voters in the Democratic Party and and even larger portion in the GOP

Also, you need to control your micro-aggressions Bro.

Still seeing things as black and white instead of the different shades of gray, which make up issues in the real world.

Oh, and I'm not your bro, buddy.

 

[vailsux.com]

I'm calling it right now.

Marco Rubio

 

[ImNotARacist]

I'm calling it right now.

Marco Rubio

 

[vailsux.com]

^eat shit and die dickweed.

 

[Campeador]

Putting Bernie in a general election scenario is pointless, considering how badly he's losing to harpy Hillary.

 

[TOAST.]

Putting Bernie in a general election scenario is pointless, considering how badly he's losing to harpy Hillary.

Completely disagree. A lot of people do not want to vote for Hillary, so they may not end up voting at all or vote for a GOP candidate depending who it is. If Bernie is the candidate he will get all the Hillary votes and then some, because if you are a Hillary supporter I doubt you would ever consider voting outside the party.