Hard chargeing pin bindings?

IdahoSpud_

IdahoSpud_

Member
so im looking at either kingpin m works or fritchi tecton 12s, just wondering what you guys think about them. id rather get the kingpins and save the weight if i wouldent give up much downhill performance. which would you get if your in the same boat and why?

thanks in advance.
 
Invest in the Duke PT 16 if you care mostly about charging, worth the weight and overall the best binding i ever had
 
14229910:TaposchtBra said:
Invest in the Duke PT 16 if you care mostly about charging, worth the weight and overall the best binding i ever had
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thanks for the advice. I think if I was going that route I would probably end up remounting my pivots with the cast thing. I'm more looking for a sorta lightweight setup for backcountry that can still have some performance going down. when i say hard charging i mean for a pin binding btw.
 
I've got nothing but good things to say about my Dynafit Rotation 12s. You just need to understand that there is no such thing as a tech binding that performs as well as a standard alpine binding. I've skied some sketchy stuff in ski mode and didn't pre-release, that being said I've also locked my toes before dropping into certain lines. If you ski a tech binding you need to understand when you can or cannot come out. For example if I'm skiing something with a lot of exposure (over a cliff) I'll lock my toes because in that case tweaking a knee is a better outcome than pre-releasing and falling off a cliff. There's a big misconception out there where people think they can't ski gnarly lines in a tech binding... not true. If the Dynafit Hoji crew can huck flips off cliffs in tech bindings, I really doubt many average skiers on this website actually need something like a shift, duke pt or cast system. As I said, if you're going to ski tech bindings you just need to understand how they release and when/when not to lock your toes.
 
14230812:skigan said:
I've got nothing but good things to say about my Dynafit Rotation 12s. You just need to understand that there is no such thing as a tech binding that performs as well as a standard alpine binding. I've skied some sketchy stuff in ski mode and didn't pre-release, that being said I've also locked my toes before dropping into certain lines. If you ski a tech binding you need to understand when you can or cannot come out. For example if I'm skiing something with a lot of exposure (over a cliff) I'll lock my toes because in that case tweaking a knee is a better outcome than pre-releasing and falling off a cliff. There's a big misconception out there where people think they can't ski gnarly lines in a tech binding... not true. If the Dynafit Hoji crew can huck flips off cliffs in tech bindings, I really doubt many average skiers on this website actually need something like a shift, duke pt or cast system. As I said, if you're going to ski tech bindings you just need to understand how they release and when/when not to lock your toes.
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thanks for the input. i definently dont claim to ski like hoji or sammy but i probably would huck some flips and do cliff lines and stuff. im 13 and am like mabe 120 pounds. run like a 9 din on my pivots, so I feel like if they can do that kind of stuff on their touring setups i should have no problems breaking them or whatever at my weight and ability. also fair point about locking the toe out if its getting super roudy.
 
14232036:7bmichaelman said:
thanks for the input. i definently dont claim to ski like hoji or sammy but i probably would huck some flips and do cliff lines and stuff. im 13 and am like mabe 120 pounds. run like a 9 din on my pivots, so I feel like if they can do that kind of stuff on their touring setups i should have no problems breaking them or whatever at my weight and ability. also fair point about locking the toe out if its getting super roudy.
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Yeah I just want to say again, locking the toe means you won't come out so you need to understand the pros/cons of that. Don't want to tear a knee up because you're afraid you'll come out when skiing something with no exposure/major fall consequence.
 
14232256:skigan said:
Yeah I just want to say again, locking the toe means you won't come out so you need to understand the pros/cons of that. Don't want to tear a knee up because you're afraid you'll come out when skiing something with no exposure/major fall consequence.
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yea i get ya. absolutely gotta concider that.
 
14232333:7bmichaelman said:
id say i charge pretty hard honestly.
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Do you regularly break shit tho? Like often?

What are your goals for the backcountry? if its mainly to just send big cliffs and throw spins and flips and stomp hard and not get too deep into a zone - maybe a few KM from the car - then daymakers on your current gear might not be a bad call. to just get you on top of whatever minigolf line you intend to send and get footy for the boiz...

But if your intentions are more mountaineering in nature, and you want to go further into the backcountry or summit remote or difficult access peaks, youre going to maybe want to be more realistic and smart and conservative about how you ski, because breaking yourself far away from services is a lot more of a risk to you and your partner than breaking your binding.

- note that someone like Cody Townsend, who absolutely charges harder than you or I, skis a lot more conservatively during his 50 project than he does out of a Heli on some AK spine covered face, and uses pretty minimal bindings and boots when hes touring - his go-to is the Salomon/Atomic/Armada MTN binding, which doesnt really have much to it. He rarely even uses the Shift binding (partially because its a pain in the ass that doesnt always work - cant tell you how many customers come in with complaints from that POS)

Additionally, you have guys like Hojrliefsen - another guy who charges harder than either of us, skiing in quite minimal boots and bindings from Dynafit as his every-day gear... He even gave up on using the Dynafit Beast binding because it was unnecessary, annoying, and heavy as shit and because Dynafit stopped making it because of the above reasons.

Ive dropped some decently large stuff on my Vipecs and my Kingpins without an issue... one of the goals of the backcountry is to ski in good fresh snow anyway, so you end up having great landing zones in deep pow - you dont have to worry about the landing being too firm or bumped out the majority of the time...
 
14232399:DingoSean said:
. He rarely even uses the Shift binding (partially because its a pain in the ass that doesnt always work - cant tell you how many customers come in with complaints from that POS)
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Seems like Salomon has shit QC, cause I either hear people praising or hating the Shift. I just got a pair this year and have had zero issues (granted I've only used them on 3 day tours and 2 resort days so far), however my buddy just broke his brake off on his second tour.

How do you find the durability of the plastic on the Vipecs? Looking at actually investing in a dedicated set up next year and they're what I'm leaning towards.
 
14232439:MicroMix said:
Seems like Salomon has shit QC, cause I either hear people praising or hating the Shift. I just got a pair this year and have had zero issues (granted I've only used them on 3 day tours and 2 resort days so far), however my buddy just broke his brake off on his second tour.

How do you find the durability of the plastic on the Vipecs? Looking at actually investing in a dedicated set up next year and they're what I'm leaning towards.
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Yeah, I dont know man. Ive had so many people come in with problems... usually brake related, but sometimes its also the AFD not adjusting correctly, or the lockout of the toepiece having issues. Overall its been a huge problem for too many people for me to wholly recommend, even though I think the concept is super rad.

My vipecs are hilarious.. I have the OG heelpieces which havent changed a whole bunch other than the wormscrew housing is more solid in modern iterations, but I had the OG toepieces replaced by Fritschi because the pin screw had rattled its way loose and wasnt safe anymore.

So, the toepieces have about 15 days on them, but the heelpieces, damn... I dont know maybe 60 tours? I have given them a solid run... and they still work just fine. I just mounted them on their 4th pair of skis... they do just an amazing job...
 
14232399:DingoSean said:
Do you regularly break shit tho? Like often?

What are your goals for the backcountry? if its mainly to just send big cliffs and throw spins and flips and stomp hard and not get too deep into a zone - maybe a few KM from the car - then daymakers on your current gear might not be a bad call. to just get you on top of whatever minigolf line you intend to send and get footy for the boiz...

But if your intentions are more mountaineering in nature, and you want to go further into the backcountry or summit remote or difficult access peaks, youre going to maybe want to be more realistic and smart and conservative about how you ski, because breaking yourself far away from services is a lot more of a risk to you and your partner than breaking your binding.

- note that someone like Cody Townsend, who absolutely charges harder than you or I, skis a lot more conservatively during his 50 project than he does out of a Heli on some AK spine covered face, and uses pretty minimal bindings and boots when hes touring - his go-to is the Salomon/Atomic/Armada MTN binding, which doesnt really have much to it. He rarely even uses the Shift binding (partially because its a pain in the ass that doesnt always work - cant tell you how many customers come in with complaints from that POS)

Additionally, you have guys like Hojrliefsen - another guy who charges harder than either of us, skiing in quite minimal boots and bindings from Dynafit as his every-day gear... He even gave up on using the Dynafit Beast binding because it was unnecessary, annoying, and heavy as shit and because Dynafit stopped making it because of the above reasons.

Ive dropped some decently large stuff on my Vipecs and my Kingpins without an issue... one of the goals of the backcountry is to ski in good fresh snow anyway, so you end up having great landing zones in deep pow - you dont have to worry about the landing being too firm or bumped out the majority of the time...
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cool good to know abt the issues with the shift. i wouldent say i regularly break bindings (to be fair though i run pivots which have a pretty good reputation durability wise) but ive ripped bindings from the skis before. i think ill probably end up with the kingpins. idk if i trust all the plasticky-ness of the fritschis honestly. im sure that a TON of the people on them ski way better than me honestly, and watching like sammy c edits and stuff you can see sammy is on kingpins primerily and he goes absolutely HAM.
 
14233051:7bmichaelman said:
cool good to know abt the issues with the shift. i wouldent say i regularly break bindings (to be fair though i run pivots which have a pretty good reputation durability wise) but ive ripped bindings from the skis before. i think ill probably end up with the kingpins. idk if i trust all the plasticky-ness of the fritschis honestly. im sure that a TON of the people on them ski way better than me honestly, and watching like sammy c edits and stuff you can see sammy is on kingpins primerily and he goes absolutely HAM.
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I mean, ripping bindings out has nothing to do with the durability of the binding, thats more about how the core and topsheet interface with the binding and the screws and what forces are applied to that interface. I have a feeling you probably wouldnt break any of these.

If you already use Pivots, probably just go with CAST since you already have them anyway...

As for the Kingpins Vs Fritschis, theyre just as plastic as one another. Theres really nothing separating them in that regard whatsoever. In fact, Id say the toepiece of the fritschis is far better engineered than that of the Kingpins *seeing as its been redesigned twice from its original design whereas Marker has barely touched theirs... which is a pain in the dick and difficult to step in a lot of the time. Not the best situation if you come out of them in a sketchy area.

I literally had to change the sole plates on my Cochise and my Striders to accommodate the depth of the kingpin toepiece - whereas every boot I own steps in perfectly into the toepiece of the fritschis - including Scarpa TX telemark boots.
 
You can charge plenty hard on sub 300g pin bindings and they won’t brake.

kingpins and vipecs solve the lateral stiffness issues for wider skis.

the need for a Shift, Duke PT, or CAST binding is largely manufactured for anyone with the capability to have more than a couple pairs of skis. I have one pair with shifts and it’s a travel ski where I won’t have the option to swap skis. They make some sense for folks who live in areas where the skiing is far from the car/locker, and days regularly include lots of resort and touring skiing.

exactly zero people have any need for daymakers or other forms of that complete fucking garbage of a system. Just fucking boot pack it’s probably more efficient than that abortion of an idea.

I bet there is a pretty strong revelry correlation of skill level and ‘need’ for a hard charging touring binding.

between the MTN, Alpinist, and ATK there is no shortage of simple, durable pin bindings which fucking rip.
 
14233527:cobra_commander said:
You can charge plenty hard on sub 300g pin bindings and they won’t brake.

kingpins and vipecs solve the lateral stiffness issues for wider skis.

the need for a Shift, Duke PT, or CAST binding is largely manufactured for anyone with the capability to have more than a couple pairs of skis. I have one pair with shifts and it’s a travel ski where I won’t have the option to swap skis. They make some sense for folks who live in areas where the skiing is far from the car/locker, and days regularly include lots of resort and touring skiing.

exactly zero people have any need for daymakers or other forms of that complete fucking garbage of a system. Just fucking boot pack it’s probably more efficient than that abortion of an idea.

I bet there is a pretty strong revelry correlation of skill level and ‘need’ for a hard charging touring binding.

between the MTN, Alpinist, and ATK there is no shortage of simple, durable pin bindings which fucking rip.
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Additionally: my shifts aren’t great. I have to max out the heel retention. Plenty of folks have an issue with the toe piece staying locked out while touring.

If you’re looking to do flips, spins and hit big cliffs or whatever the definition of hard charging is it may be worth examining your Options for getting out while severely injured? How will you get out with a broken leg? Do you have sleds and an established road to zip out? How far is the ambulance and how will you contact them? What’s you and your buddy’s plan to manage traumatic shock? How fast can your party move with a liter patient? There is some inherent risk in skiing and being in the backcountry but when you add to it by ‘hard charging’ you should be taking steps to mitigate it.

why are you touring to begin with? For all the sick pow? Just ski the resort and side country. Spoiler alert, it’s not just pow out there. Often the conditions are worse than the resort.
 
Just get a g3 ion or the ATK/Moment binding. I just got on the atk raider 12 this season, about 15 tours on them ranging from quick pre-work laps and some 6-9mile days. The ATK raider is top tier, skis great downhill and is way better than the shifts and dukes I have previously tried to be on.

If you go the ATK route though be sure you get the freeride spacer, it's a world of difference. I think the moment voyager 14 comes with it.
 
14232399:DingoSean said:
Do you regularly break shit tho? Like often?

What are your goals for the backcountry? if its mainly to just send big cliffs and throw spins and flips and stomp hard and not get too deep into a zone - maybe a few KM from the car - then daymakers on your current gear might not be a bad call. to just get you on top of whatever minigolf line you intend to send and get footy for the boiz...

But if your intentions are more mountaineering in nature, and you want to go further into the backcountry or summit remote or difficult access peaks, youre going to maybe want to be more realistic and smart and conservative about how you ski, because breaking yourself far away from services is a lot more of a risk to you and your partner than breaking your binding.

- note that someone like Cody Townsend, who absolutely charges harder than you or I, skis a lot more conservatively during his 50 project than he does out of a Heli on some AK spine covered face, and uses pretty minimal bindings and boots when hes touring - his go-to is the Salomon/Atomic/Armada MTN binding, which doesnt really have much to it. He rarely even uses the Shift binding (partially because its a pain in the ass that doesnt always work - cant tell you how many customers come in with complaints from that POS)

Additionally, you have guys like Hojrliefsen - another guy who charges harder than either of us, skiing in quite minimal boots and bindings from Dynafit as his every-day gear... He even gave up on using the Dynafit Beast binding because it was unnecessary, annoying, and heavy as shit and because Dynafit stopped making it because of the above reasons.

Ive dropped some decently large stuff on my Vipecs and my Kingpins without an issue... one of the goals of the backcountry is to ski in good fresh snow anyway, so you end up having great landing zones in deep pow - you dont have to worry about the landing being too firm or bumped out the majority of the time...
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This should be a sticky note at the top of this forum called "Read this before you ask what tech binding to buy".
 
Yeah i think a huge misconception is that only hybrid/frame bindings can charge in the backcountry. That led me to buy barons on my first touring setup. Now I'm on a pair of G3 ZEDs and they work perfectly fine for the backcountry and I look back and realize how little i knew about pin bindings when i bought that pair of barons. There's like this weird culture that makes us all think that we need a "chargier" binding, but thinking that "chargy" bindings are only the kingpin, frame bindings, shifts, etc. But really a lot of pin bindings work super well even though they look not as "chargy". Also there are SO many benefits to pin bindings in terms of going up that i never knew until getting on a pair
 
14249097:stinky_cheese said:
Yeah i think a huge misconception is that only hybrid/frame bindings can charge in the backcountry. That led me to buy barons on my first touring setup. Now I'm on a pair of G3 ZEDs and they work perfectly fine for the backcountry and I look back and realize how little i knew about pin bindings when i bought that pair of barons. There's like this weird culture that makes us all think that we need a "chargier" binding, but thinking that "chargy" bindings are only the kingpin, frame bindings, shifts, etc. But really a lot of pin bindings work super well even though they look not as "chargy". Also there are SO many benefits to pin bindings in terms of going up that i never knew until getting on a pair
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For sure. I never understood what the issue was with frame bindings. Like if you actually want a hard charging binding you can tour with and you aren't interested in a tech binding for the few times you actually tour just get a frame binding. It isn't great going up but does the job and when it's in ski mode you have a full blown alpine binding.
 
UPDATE. i ordered cast touring thing, it just shipped, so im just going to go with that route. yea, it will be overly heavy to tour, but i can have one setup for resort and backcountry, and i will have NO issues breaking them or anything. after weighing my options, i think this might be the best for my situation.
 
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