Guess what made the front page of the National Post today!

leckett1

Active member
Polar bear population rapidly increasing! yes thats right. the population has more than doubled over the last 20 years. yea so climate change will totally kill off millions of animals completely ignoring lord charles darwin who believes in evolution.

and there was another article in the Ottawa Citizen saying that global warming isnt to blame for the crazy weather on the west coast, all the sulfurous sooty air from asia is to blame. title even says "Blame soot, not global warming, for violant weather" all that crap in the air is so incredibly thick there that it is altering weather patterns, but not causing global warming in any way.
 
there was an article i read that talked about global warming. It said that scientists have been studying mars and they have global warming too. So yes, it exists, but it is just a natural cyle of planets.
 
Uh... rapid expansion of a certain population is often the result of a sudden imbalance in local ecosystems. If the polar bear population is going up that quickly, something strange is going on.

Unless it's just the efforts of conservationists.
 
hmm this reminds me of something i was talking about in my nightschool class. except it was about seals.
 
Global warming is BS i think... Or else were jsut worrying about it too much. People want to preserve the world we live in, but the reality is that the world changes. Species go extinct every day all voer the world. Organisms will adapt to the changing environment in their own way. In actuality humans are just another animal, and our dominance will just change other species.
 
well, even if its not as big a problem as theyre saying it is... its not gonna hurt anyone if we start puking less shit into the upper atmosphere
 
Fuck Yeah! This is the break I've been waiting for. Finnally, the governments gonna have open season on those bastards and I'm gonna kill me about 10 before the buggers go extinct. YEEHAW!!!
 
Sweet another global warming debate in the works where only 5% of participants haven't got their knowledge from tv and the media...
 
Global warming exists, and based on the patterns over history, we're in for a hell of an ice age. Stick around, the skiing's gonna be sick
 
More like fox news^

The world has never changed at any rate close to the warming that is occurring today.

If the current Co2 emissions continue at current rates it is certain that there will be no skiing in the U.S, no polar bears outside of zoos, and horrible pest problems in less than 100 years.

As skiers, or even just as people who like life, you should all really smarten up and not believe conservative bullshit.

if you don't believe me, maybe you will believe hundreds of scientists from over 100 countries. It is 99% certain that humans are to fault, so smarten the fuck up.

http://www.ipcc.ch/

 
I had a dream last night where I was in a fishing store and there were Clubs of different sizes for different size seals. It was a funny dream.
 
the national post is a pretty liberal newspaper. You wouldn't know though yank. ANd quit your bitching, all I ever see on this site is bitch bitch bitch. Why must you always bitch. Anyways, I am currently making plans to hunt the great white beast known as the polar bear. And harvest a bunch of baby seals. I'm doing my part to help the ecosystem.
 
do you even know how fast emissions are going up? your over exaggerating. the carbon cycle naturally fluctuates. since we started pumping C02 into the air, it has gone up by less than 1/3. do you know how much C02 is in the air compared to other gasses? about 1-2%. about 76% of that is nitrogen and the rest is oxygen. such an insignificant increase in the air...keep in mind this is a global mean. if you go to somewhere like china or india of course its going to be atronomic. this is a completely different issue. the air is so thick and smoggy there that THAT is the reason we have been experiencing such wacky weather. the thickness of the air there has been altering weather patterns, but is not causing "global" warming.

cities are warmer because yes it is a fact that by changing the ground it will radiate heat differently, but that does not cause global warming. fact.

now by reading that post of yours i can tell that you havent really deeply researched global warming and are quite an optimistic character so i dont think ill be changing your mind, but please read this and think about it rather than just being like NO YOUR WRONG STOP NOT THINKING WHAT EVERYONE ELSE THINKS.

by the way there are also hundreds of science skeptics who believe global warming is bs, and there are hundreds who favor it. they run of computer models, which are guesses. they are guessing the world will become warmer. many believe this, and many believe that the climate has proven over and over again that it is not linear and cannot be predicted.
 
my knowledge of the subject isnt from either of those. all i ever try to do is explain what i have read and everyone flames me...
 
my history teacher says the global warming is caused by cows flatulence and if we were to kill all the cows in the world global warming wouldnt exist anymore.
 
it is true that cows emit a lot of methane, a green house gas that is much more potent than CO2, but since there is so much more CO2 emitted it is a bigger problem. And PCBs have 8,000 more times green house potential than CO2 does, but there are smaller amounts. And to the guy who said animals go extinct every day or whatever, before humans became the dominating species of the world, 1-5 species went extinct per year. Currently, around 50,000 species go extinct every year. Humans don't affect the world my ass.
 
when you talk about the sulfur to blame...global warming is supposed to be the cause of that. global warming is melting the ice caps and warming up the water temperature causing more sulfur to be put up into the air.
 
We changed the world's temperature by 3 degrees globaly in 150 years, wich is like 12 000 years of normal global heating. If we continue this way, in like 100 years, the earth could be from 2 to 6 degrees hotter, and would make north pole and south pole melt, fuck up our streams and just warm the whole earth up.

Just watch An Inconvinient Truth, and you'll be good.
 
Ever heard of solar warming? The ice on mars is melting and the temperature is going up which proves humans are not to blame. So you smarten the fuck up.
 
Why wouldn't the human to blame, we are warming the planet by 3 degrees in 150 years, when, there were not even one human on this planet, increasing the temperature by 3 degrees was taking at least 10 000 years, explain that to me please.
 
dude, I cant take ONE more global warming thread, one more, and ill go find the cutest kitten in town, and put it repeatedly
 
I wish i would have known this when i had to write 3 papers on the topic of global warming and the poar bears for my college comp. class!!
 
you shouldn't have to tell someone to use the searchbar to find a thread that they've already commented in, so i won't bother.
 
No, not end of discussion. I'm tired of stupid kids running their mouths. An educated public is key to not ruining our planet.

FYI: i don't get my information from Fox News, I get it from my professors at the Ivy League college i happen to attend. I'm also an environmental studies major....bitch.

So, in response to all you fuckheads, here's the introductory section to a research paper I just finished (finals almost done, then i go to Colorado, sick!) on global carbon markets.

This should end the argument. If you don't believe i wrote this, google it. then punch yourself in the face.....

The world we inhabit is one today defined by scarcity. Centuries ago, the ends of the earth were unknown, and civilizations existed in complete ignorance of one another. Given this assumption of a seemingly boundless global environment, its ability to provide material and space was thought to be limitless. Time, delineated by history, proved the reality to be otherwise, and the debate rages over how best to utilize and manage that which we cannot get enough of and simultaneously do not have enough of: energy from the earth. The actors central to this debate are, principally, proponents of maximizing the benefits an unrestrained market economy provides and advocates for conservation and alternative energy sources. While the global outlook of an environmentalist may lie opposite that of an economist with regard to humankind’s utilization of natural resources, their perspectives certainly intersect in agreement on one fact: anthropogenic activity is defined by the consumption of fossil fuels.

In a more sophisticated instance of “biting the hand that feeds”, the carbon dioxide produced by our fossil fuel addiction threatens the natural function of the environmental systems we rely on in so many ways. Excess CO2 in the atmosphere intensifies its heat-trapping function known as the greenhouse effect. It is by way of this unnatural mechanism that we experience global warming. Atmospheric CO2 concentrations prior to the Industrial Revolution were principally the result of natural processes and were influenced irrelevantly by human activities. The explosive development of an industrialized world economy in the 19th century changed the planet forever. With the onset of the Industrial Revolution, reliance on fossil fuels skyrocketed, and measures of carbon in our atmosphere responded accordingly. In 1958, a scientist named Charles David Keeling began a study involving the continuous measurement of atmospheric CO2 concentrations. He obtained an initial reading of 315 parts per million (ppm), up from pre-industrial levels of 275 ppm found in polar ice cores – by the year 2000, the Keeling Curve revealed an atmospheric carbon concentration of 367 ppm .

The following year, in 2001, the International Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), a United Nations-backed gathering of representatives from the government, scientific, and NGO communities, established a direct link between ecological symptoms of global warming and human activity, and issued a warning for worsening conditions in the future . While this was of course not the first “official” response to the reality of Keeling’s data, the direction and source of this assertion reflected a collective awareness of responsibility and consequence that while heartening unfortunately came into fruition not until the new millennium. More recently, this month the IPCC’s Working Group I released its contribution to the panel’s “Fourth Assessment Report”; building on its previous relation of climate change to anthropogenic pursuits, it further specifies the reality of a grim present and future, citing “changes in Artic temperatures and ice, widespread changes in precipitation amounts, ocean salinity, wind patterns and aspects of extreme weather including droughts…heat waves and the intensity of tropical cyclones” . As attentiveness in government circles has grown, there has – with the expectedly lag time, however slight - developed a more enthusiastic and more aware public entity. This is the collective result of many things, including highly visible “green” marketing by corporate actors, the ubiquity of climate change issues in the media, and truly first-of-their-kind efforts like Al Gore’s movie An Inconvenient Truth. All of these factors combined have pushed global warming to the front of the popular stage. As will be further explored later in this paper, this involvement – and mobilization – of the informed public individual is fundamentally crucial to the success of programs fighting climate change.

But the IPCC reports did not constitute a groundbreaking call to action, as many attempts at addressing the problem of global warming – often called “fixes” – preceded their release. These efforts, appearing en force first in the late 1980s, were mostly comprised of attempts to stimulate and organize support for the development of fixes, as opposed to concrete action to reduce or offset carbon emissions. In 1989, the Union of Concerned Scientists received 700 signatures – many from Nobel Laureates and National Academy of Sciences members – on their petition “urging recognition of global warming as potentially the greatest danger to mankind” . The UCS petition, while essentially only documenting environmental consciousness, was significant as epitomizing the many prequels to the more formally recognized IPCC reports. Eventually, however, advocacy developed into action, and global actors began work on ways of truly impacting climate change. The most prominent approach in more recent decades has been via international regulations achieved through geopolitical discourse.

The most famous of these is the Kyoto Protocol.

Now, go learn about the Kyoto Protocol, THEN weigh in on the present situation/debate.

Case closed. Class is dismissed.
 
Are you kidding me? You seem to be quite ignorant. Do you not realize how slowly polar bears reproduce? For a species with a very low reproductive rate, that's an extremely rapid population increase. I'm not calling you ignorant for not knowing about polar bear reproduction; I'm calling you ignorant for posting like you know what you're talking about.

Oh, and steezee5, thanks for posting that. It's good to occasionally see intellect in the forums.
 
uh...from 800 lets say 400 were female. each make 2 cubs (because thats how many usually are bown). thats already 1600. now those 400 female cubs will make two cubs, that puts the population up to 2000. polar bears begin mating at around 4 years of age. so that gives alot of time to mate over 21 years, about 4 times. now with the 2000, the initial 800 will probably die, going down to 1200. 600 of these would be female and they make 1200 more cubs, now you have 2400. thats just a rough stab to show you that its not INSANELY RAPID as you think. now i know there are many other factors such as whether they mate or not, but my calculation here only shows two cycles of mating, when 4 should be expected in 21 years, theoretically speaking.

i awate flame.
 
that site is a year old dude...its out of date.

and ok ive decided this is the last post/thread/anything i make on this subject. i admit im an optimistic person, but the majority of you are too and there is no changing anyones opinions. so lets stop all this bs here because no one seems to be able to carry out a debate without flaming eachother for no reason.
 
HAHAHAHA, and where did you get your information from? Some random website? Well here's my credibility: I worked for the US Fish & Wildlife Service in Alaska for the marine mammology department for the better part of a year. You know what the three mammals are that they work with? POLAR BEARS, sea otters, and walruses. The fact that you can't even correctly spell the word "await" discourages me from replying, for it shows how intellectual you truly are, but I'll do so anyway:

Sorry to inform, but one cub is born just as often as two, which lowers your number. Furthermore, polar bears reach sexual maturity at about SIX years old, not four, and successful matings usually don't occur until around the age of ten. Polar bears usually only reproduce until the age of twenty (meaning they only have cubs for ten out of their 25-30 year life spans), and there are typically three males to every female during mating. The MAIN reason why the polar bear species is one of the slowest reproducing in the world is that a cub will stay with her mother for about three years, and a female will not have another litter while she still has a cub with her.

SO, let's recalculate:

One female to every three males means 1/4, so we start with 200 bears. They only reproduce for 1/3 of their life-spans, so that cuts the number to about 70. Let's say ALL of the females that are able to give birth happen to have a litter in the same year, and that half of the litters have one cub while the other half has two. That's another 105 bears which brings the total number to 905. Now, you can't include these cubs into the reproductive cycle for about eight or ten years because of the wait for sexual maturity.

So now you wait three years for the females to get rid of the first batch of cubs and have another. During this period, approximately 100 bears will die off from old age/natural causes, starvation, climate conditions, predators (hunting/poaching), etc. What this means is that the total population only increases by five bears every three years. 21/3 = 7 reproductive cycles

7x5 = 35 additional bears, factoring in birth and death rates

800+35 = 835 total bears over a 21-year period

This isn't factoring in better or worse years because those things happen naturally, but that's an approximate regular population increase. The problem with your thinking is that you're assuming that polar bears have been reproducing at the same rate as humans are. If every species was increasing in numbers as quickly as we are, this world would be retardedly chaotic. In reality, birth and death rates for MOST animals fluctuate between being fairly even and having one of the two higher than the other, keeping the population pretty stable. You're thinking in terms of exponential growth, which isn't what goes on with most species (even though it does for humans); logistical growth is normally the case.

I'm sure you've heard about problems with there being too many white-tailed deer, canada geese, green crabs, etc. These are all fine examples of exponential growth. If polar bears were actually reproducing according to the calculations you gave, we'd be having a huge polar bear over-population problem. Having the population increase two and a half times over the original count in 21 years, especially a species that's had such significant depletions in population counts over the past century or two (for various reasons), is a HUGE deal.

So there you have it. I proved you wrong. If you'd like a second opinion on the matter, I'd be happy to email a few of the scientists (with PhD's who have been doing this work for decades, mind you) to see what they have to say.
 
Wrong. I just made you look like a fool without having to bring pointless name calling and other useless "tactics" into the "debate". In fact, I'd hardly call this a debate; it was just me proving the ignorance of someone who has no idea what he's talking about. Get your facts straight before you start spouting off bull shit and assuming it's infallible, please.
 
Sorry to triple post, but I do realize that I misspelled mammalogy and probably a few other words throughout my large post. That'll happen when I haven't slept in two nights and neglect to proof read.
 
http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Ursus_maritimus.html

you and i are both right. 3.5-6 years. they have 1-3 cubs per time. i used 2 as a median. await was a typo. people make mistakes. 3 females to one male? where did you get that?

well the population increased and thats now a fact. there has to be an explanation for it. ive been working on reducing my optimism and i see where your getting this. im just saying maybe exponential growth occured to produce this outcome? could be possible?
 
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