Good kids need not apply: Massachusetts stimulus money

u gotta know someone anyway to get a dec job around here most of the time. its watever thats pretty wack tho i know how hard it was for me to get a job this summer
 
Mass provides kids who've made some poor choices in their life an opportunity to redeem themselves, and find the value in being a productive member of society...

sounds awful

Seriously though, what benefit would be achieved by providing a leg up to the suburbanites who, as it stands, don't appreciate the advantage they have over their urban counterparts?
 
you should really try and be more understanding... im sure any good fortune you or your family have achieved has come on the backs of people who have less than you. ;)
 
dude your political views are so frustrating. i hope one day you can be in a situation that makes you realize how much of a dick you are. and that article was fucking slanted as hell, give me a break
 
Exactly.

This plan is about finding people who are younger that have made mistakes, and giving them an opportunity to become reasonable, productive members of society. These are individuals who that if not given an opportunity now, will CERTAINLY become even further degenerative and destructive to society. At least this gives an opportunity for some of these youth to escape the cycle if they so desire.
 
Why the fuck do they need 8 dollars an hour though? Minimum wage is less than that in some places.

It wouldn't sound nearly as bad if the kids who committed crimes weren't included. They should be doing some community service for free instead of making 8 bucks an hour. Giving money to troubled children isn't a good idea.

I can agree with helping out the teen parents, immigrants, and other poor kids but the criminals don't need to make more money an hour than I would.

 
But....

What does it say for honest hardworking people who can't find a job this summer. It looks like these people are getting fucked over by playing by the rules. Now what kind of message does that send?

 
It is a precarious situation, but at the same time, these jobs may be in positions where "honest, hard-working people" won't work. There are a lot of such positions around.

Look at home many hospitality companies must outsource for housekeepers at a wage even above minimum wage, simply because "hard-working honest" americans won't do those jobs.

That half-assed commentary that was provided lacks a LOT of information.

And yes, $8 is minimum wage in Massachussetts.
 
exactly. chances are these people will end up doing the same dirty work that immigrants are doing, jobs that middle/upper class americans would rather not do, but are still grateful to have other people do them. chances are most of the people on this website wouldn't go job-searching at a sewage plant, landfill, etc., but the world still needs people to fill those positions.
 
I'm a kid in massachusetts who needs to keep paying for college, but I can't get a job. So rather than help me, someone who is already taking action to assure myself a better future, they'll give it to someone who hasn't done shit their whole life so they can TRY to straighten themselves up? They got themselves into the cycle, let them get themselves out of it without pushing others into it in their place.

You know what i did rather than resort to crime and making mistakes that altered my life? I worked my ass off in school to get into college instead of waiting for the government to reward me sitting on my ass doing nothing.

No, you want a job, you earn it. If you fucked around as a kid, and didn't get the education required for the job, then you blew it for yourself. Why should someone like me who actually paid attention and took advantage of my opportunities have to suffer your consequences?

I know a lot of kids who absolutely need jobs to continue their college educations, and can't get any. The idea of giving jobs to someone who has made no effort to better their future rather than someone who has already taken action is infuriating.
 
the problem i have with your perspective on this is that you act as if you started in the same place as the people youre complaining about. do you really think the fact that youre in college is completely because of what youve done versus what they havent? do you think luck isnt involved in it? do you understand how lucky you are to grow up in a family and location in which going to college is even a plausible thing to aspire to? you'd have a much different opinion on this if you grew up, poor as shit, in the city and had absolutely no options. maybe then you wouldnt look down your nose at these kids and realize that the fact that youre in college is hardly because of the things youve done
 
yes, my environment and situation didn't hurt me, but nonetheless, living in a nicer area and all that didn't get me into college. If i hadn't put any effort into school or anything like that, i wouldn't be going to college. My parents helping to give me a good lifestyle alone did not get me into college. I understand where you are coming from with this, but i think you also view it with an ideal outlook. That all these underprivileged kids are angry about their lives and everything. My father works in the type of area that this whole stimulus money/jobs thing would go into effect, with poorer people and crime etc, and according to him...they simply don't give a shit. They don't WANT to work or try to better their lives, because most of them are on welfare and are given housing. They are poor and live in a crime infested area, but they don't care because they don't have to work or do anything but continue living to earn it.

and skierx-that post makes it more understandable and makes a little bit moresense, my response probably would have changed a bit had i seen that, but i was typing mine out when you posted it.
 
i didnt say it was the sole reason youre in college. but if a kid living in the city put in twice the work and thought you did, chances are he still has zero chance of going to college or getting a good job
and second of all how can you make such a sweeping generalization? that is not true about most of the people we are talking about at all. and if they "dont give a shit" its because they know theyre probably gonna be living that kind of life the rest of their lives no matter how hard they try. and if you think being on welfare and shit is equivalent to living well without working... youre really sheltered. you need to see that welfare and other shit isnt just something for people who "dont want to work" or "are lazy." there are so many people out there trying to live and raise a family working their asses off and shit happens and theyre left out in the cold. im not trying to be condescending at all when i say this, i hope sometime you are put in a situation that will make you empathize with less fortunate people and see how unrealistic your attitude towards them is
 
I'm an over privileged white kid from a good solid family and am in college right now. I'm not in Massachusetts so this doesn't directly effect me, but I am having a hard time getting a job. I've applied at over 50 places and will go back in and follow up on each application and I haven't even had a single call back. I have a good resume and references but it doesn't seem to help. So why is some kid who has divorced parents or is a high school drop out (I got expelled from HS and still finished no problem) entitled to a government job which every taxpayer is paying for, isn't that class discrimination. I may be having just as difficult a time finding a job as the HS dropout down the street, so how does his lazyness (most likely) entitle him to a taxpayer funded job and not me. The best part is (if I lived in MA) is that when I finally find a job at a business or wherever my state income taxes will be going to pay the HS dropout or single mom's wage or what have you.
 
i see what you mean about the generalization, and my bad, i shouldnt have just broadly stated it.

but about being sheltered...

trust me, in my short life thus far, i have been far more revealed to people on welfare and living poor than most people are in their entire lives. And the things i haven't seen firsthand, i hear from my father who spends nearly everyday in areas with people living like this. And from what i've seen/heard, few of them care. He once told me that the people have their own way of life sorted out that for the most part does not involve working for their living. The people he deals with are the laziest people in the city. They've even told him that thanks to the government, "everyday is saturday." I've dealt with them firsthand, and they think i'm the sucker for working.

it's true that there are some who really are trying to get out, but the image that you put across is more like one of those "please donate to inner city families" infomercials where they show them picking through trash and such. Those people do exist, and like i said, some are trying to get out for sure, but the majority of the ones i've met, spoken to, and the others that my father deals with every day, have no ambition to get out of where they are. They haven't had to work a day in their life, and don't ever plan on it.

the fact that it's what they've probably always known is definitely a factor, but many of them seem alright with the way things are for them/
 
have you heard of learned helplessness? It provides a good explanation for the apparent lack of ambition.

This aside have you really considered what you're implying? Throughout your posts you've almost made it sound like you're jealous of the underprivileged. When it's said flat out you'd deny it (if you're honest and not an idiot), but that just furthers the point; people in general do not enjoy poverty, the day to day struggle, and being at the bottom of the chain. Almost anyone would happily upgrade their social-class -- the qualification goes out to those who are not touched by materialism, and have a strong community backing them, but this obviously is extremely rare, especially here in our society.

What it boils down to is that it's not a matter of motivation, it's a matter of power. These individuals, alone, lack the power to make a change in their life. This program is designed to provide them this power.

Since it's summer time, and you really don't have much of an excuses to not do some reading, check out Savage Inequalities by Richard Kozol. At this point it's relatively dated, but the situation hasn't changed significantly. It'll really open your eyes to the problems that some Americans face with every day. Shit you, nor I could imagine because of our backgrounds.

 
If they're really too lazy to work, they won't take these jobs. Somehow I think thats not going to be the case.

And for the rest of you fuckers, ever heard of the CCC, this isn't a new idea, it works and its not as if we will be paying for them to watch movies and eat popcorn, they will be real jobs doing needed tasks.
 
i for one would like to know what my money is being spent on..... i actually have come up with my own plan to save America... you ready? just as we are saving jobs in the auto industry i say we just correct the mistake that was made when we didnt prop up the horse and buggy industry when cars started to take over... lets go back to the days of the horse and buggy! who gives a rats ass about Detroit, i say we just revive the horse and buggy.

i would really like to know what these jobs are..... just because its a job doesnt mean its worth the time and money invested to create this job. and im sure we can agree that the government sucks ass when it comes to the allotment of capital. let just pay these kids who made a bad choice somewhere in life to dige ditches along the sides of the road.. then we pay other people to fill the ditches in. POOF! economy FIXED! 100% employement! fuck yes!

ive gotta say ive always been mystified how some people are so concerned about "jobs" for people but when a company is doing a kick butt job of being in business and makes a shit ton of money. o well thats just bad.

/rant :)
 
first line.... go for it, work your way higher.

some if not a majority of these people do have opportunity if they would take it. just because a job doesnt pay you $15 an hour isnt a good reason for not taking the job that pays you $10... then improve your skills, learn more. and guess what one day you can try and upgrade your job! woo!

i love how you told him he has nothing better to do than read your book :) some of us work our asses off all summer so we can pay for our college education. while recieving no financial aid.

like the guy said, i know, and have famiily members who are on the doll from the government. and its not because they have been taken advantage of. its because they are lazy. they chose their life.
 
First, What job are you working that requires you to be doing projects out side your normal 9-5? During the school year it's completely understandable that you've got papers to write, things to research which can take up all your time. Are you really admitting your schedule is as packed if not more so than the rest of your year, or are you just a dick?

second, I know it might be hard to imagine, but advancing through a job isn't as easy as you make it sound. Especially if you're partway responsible for your family bills. I know i've never had to help my pops put food on the table, but plenty of people do, or worse they have to take the roll of a non existent pops. There are so many things out there that just compound the problems faced by the target of this program, the last thing they need is a white boy from Minnesota telling them how easy it is to succeed in life and get a job promotion.

finally, as we've probably gone over nearly every post, your anecdotal evidence has no statistical significance to support the conclusion that the majority, or even a large minority of individuals on welfare are there by a combination of choice and sloth.
 
first off it was a joke.....(notice the smiley face?) i loved the part where you TOLD him he had time. my point, you know nothing about how much time he might or might not have. i work currently a minimum of 40 hours a week. (more often than not more than 40)

if i were responsible for my families well being i would personally be MORE motivated to move up in my job. but thankfully my parents instilled good judgment and a whole host of other positive characteristics in me and i dont plan to start a family any time soon. i have no business being the head of a family right now.. ill get back to you in 8-10 years :)

i love how my being a white boy from Mn is brought up so often in these type of threads. what are you a white boy from somwhere else? the difference is your telling people how shitty they have it? and being o so caring?

i dont think ive ever said success was easy. so im not sure where thats coming from...

i will give you there is a HUGE problem with men in this country being low life non exsistant fathers. if you can figure out how to teach men to man up and take responsibility for their families. kudos to you.

i never saw a study and source to your claims on the work ethic of welfare recipiants in any of your posts....
 
i forgot. im glad you brought up me being white... see i didnt want to brag or anything but i was thinking that....

hopefully a white boy like myself in the richness of my life experiences would more often than not, be able to come to a better conclusion than a black woman. who hasnt lived my life......

pretty good no? :) hehehe
 
See i don't follow that, mentioning your color and location was only meant to exhibit the radical difference between the life of an inner city minority and a mid-western skier. In terms of you advising the less advantaged; what sort of relevant insights might you be able to share, things you might have picked up on the farm, or on the lake... You haven't walked in their shoes, you haven't even walked down the same road.

i dont even want to figure out what you're trying to say.
 
People are poor because they are lazy or dumb. Let them turn to crime so we can lock them up, and get them off the streets away from the non-violent, productive members of society. I'd gladly pay for a criminals lunch in jail than for his food stamps he can flip for crack rocks. Pface please bring on the smart faunt.
 
ya i have a father with bias opinions like that too. to be honest hes a peice of shit. you cant judge everyone by where they live and what they do. its not like everyone from the burbs is a snobby person where they have the opinion that THEY come first over everyone else, but i guess that applys in your situation.... anyways, are you living in the hood, and trying to find a job there? if not that article has nothing to do with you, they said it wont reach the suburbs at all. and if you want more money to continue to go to college, stop skiing its a costly hobbie
 
why would anyone want to hire workers with no skills? Why is the goverment paying for privite comapnies summer employement?

If i had a company and was hireing for the summer id hire the people who wanted the most hours and are the best workers, it wouldnt make a differnce if they had a kid.
 
it was a smart ass, dare i say borderline racist remark... (on my part)

actually good point on working on a farm... get these lazy slob inner city kids (the ones that are lazy and dead beats) out on a hay wagon bailing hay. o yeah make sure its atleast 85f so they break a sweat. :)

"I would hope that a wise Latina woman, with the richness of her

experiences, would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a

white male who hasn't lived that life,"

thats the quote i was referring too. if youve been following the news you know who uttered these words.
 
Reverse racism...I thought Obama was trying to rise above race politics. Sotomayor is a moron.

Also, did I, a Massachusetts taxpayer, force these people to commit crimes, get pregnant, or run away from home? No, absolutely, 100 percent NO! None of my actions led to the terrible decisions these people made by their own volition, and the taxpayer is in no way, shape, or form responsible for their actions, and above all, providing for their employment. I am not ok with my hard earned money going to providing jobs to people who weren't able to exercise some basic self control.
 
the 2000 census had the median household income as $40,000.

ask how much your parents earn and you'll figure out just how well you fit into the phrase "the average american life".
 
I see it from both ways

If you messed up and want to start over this is good, and if your still like that you wont keep the job

But also, with the economy, hardworking people will have less opportunities.

You still have to advantage if your good though
 
from the US Census Bureau regarding median household income (2006)

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i think that most of massachusetts is doing just fine compared to the rest of the country.
 
valedictorian of her high school, went to princeton on a full ride and won the pyne prize (top award for undergrads), and followed this by going to yale and becoming an editor of the Yale law journal; If this is what it takes to be a moron, in your book, where do you stand? Sorry you're just full of shit.
 
Again, if there needs to be an explanation for any apparent lack of motivation, learned helplessness goes a long way. All their life these kids haven't had the power to do anything to change their lives, eventually you give up. Please quit saying they are all lazy deadbeats as if it's a matter of choice, there are too many factors that play a part in determining a good work ethic. I don't need empirical proof to show you that people don't like living in poverty, and that if they could easily advance they would. The point is that the system has been built on a foundation where the richer you are, the easier it is to make money. If you're at the bottom you're fucked.

Now I don't want to stick my head out for Sotomayor and say she's not a racist, (i havent' met her). But lets look at the full context of that quote.

The larger context of the sentence is Sotomayor addressing former

Justice Sandra Day O'Connor's famous quote that "a wise old man and

wise old woman will reach the same conclusion in deciding cases."


"I am also not so sure that I agree with the statement," Sotomayor

says. "First, as Professor Martha Minnow has noted, there can never be

a universal definition of wise. Second, I would hope that a wise Latina

woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not

reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life."


"Let us not forget that wise men like Oliver Wendell Holmes and

Justice Cardozo voted on cases which upheld both sex and race

discrimination in our society," she said. "Until 1972, no Supreme Court

case ever upheld the claim of a woman in a gender discrimination case.

I, like Professor Carter, believe that we should not be so myopic as to

believe that others of different experiences or backgrounds are

incapable of understanding the values and needs of people from a

different group. Many are so capable. As Judge Cedarbaum pointed out to

me, nine white men on the Supreme Court in the past have done so on

many occasions and on many issues including Brown."


"However, to understand takes time and effort, something that not

all people are willing to give," she continued. "For others, their

experiences limit their ability to understand the experiences of

others. Other simply do not care. Hence, one must accept the

proposition that a difference there will be by the presence of women

and people of color on the bench. Personal experiences affect the facts

that judges choose to see. My hope is that I will take the good from my

experiences and extrapolate them further into areas with which I am

unfamiliar. I simply do not know exactly what that difference will be

in my judging. But I accept there will be some based on my gender and

my Latina heritage.


That does not sound racist to me. Unfortuate that this ended up as a major digression from the topic at hand, but atleast i hope people actually take time to read her full quote above and keep it in thier head

 
my father does have a biased opinion because he's a cop in the roughest part of boston. He interacts with these people daily, be it by crime, or neighborhood organization meetings and shit that he has to go to. According to him and his 20+ years of experience in the area with these people, they are quite content with how they live. You can argue bullshit all you want, but i know firsthand that they simply don't give a shit. Those who want to take advantage of this will, and those who don't...well...they won't. simple as that.

And i'm not a suburb snob as you put it, but i do agree with the 2nd part you wrote about how it won't affect me. I found another article that wasn't as slanted and biased, and was more neutral, and it didn't seem as bad.

and for you last recommendation...i have basically stopped skiing. Skied only 2 days this year.
 
if youre an honest hardworking person, you can find a job, a good job, probably a much better job than the at guy with the criminal record is getting.
 
o you would be surprised. i dont come from money. i have family members who had the same chances as other family members and they chose wrong / didnt give a fuck. and well their life is very different from mine...

but i forgot, lifes to hard... and i really should feel quilty that i have a good life.

i would say a good place to start is dont knock your GF up when you are both 17. IMO that goes back to men being fathers and setting a good example of what a man is. being a good father figure. i agree with you on that. hopefully some day a remidy will be found.
 
cmon justin you know better than that. read the whole quote. it wasnt racist in the least till it was taken out of context by everyone. i havent seen a single news network, (besides msnbc, but i use the term "news" loosely there) that actually ran the FULL in context quote. just this bullshit half assed version
 
I like how Montana is one of the poorest states according to that and we have close to zero social programs.
 
This is just my opinion so dont take it for any more than that.

I like the idea of the government giving welfare money to people TRYING to get better and work and make their life better. I dont mind giving a few tax dollars to somebody who had a bad stroke of luck or even made bad choices, as long as they are willing and trying to fix it or make it better.

I am extremely against giving welfare to people who sit around on the asses every day and think "everyday is saturday" or even just think "this sucks" but then dont go out and do anyhing to try and make it better. Those people who do not want to get better should not be given my hard earned tax dollars to sit the fuck around all goddamn day.

P.S. - this is not directly related to the thread but it is related to the arguments within it.
 
look i feel for you when you say you don't come from much money, but lets be honest, you participate in one of the more expensive sports, Take whatever 'class' you fit in for your relative community, the kid in the, relatively, same position as you who grew up in the inner city has had a radically different, and probably tougher (not to pretend like i know your story), upbringing.

When you attempted to give a counter example there, that you should feel guilty about having a good life, let's just be clear, you don't necessarily have a "good" life just because you haven't seen the worst of it. Someone being worse off than you doesn't entail you being the opposite.

The finally thing i'll say, your advice is really incomplete. You can't just tell people not to fuck, abstinence programs don't work (I'll admit not sure where you stand on sex ed, or whether you were ever suggesting the advice of abstinence programs, maybe you agree with me). The message your advice is trying to carry (to be responsible, smart adults) needs to be given a chance to succeed in reality.

Because particular words of wisdom aren't able to be mass produced, you can't just include life lessons in the curriculum at school, I like this idea from Mass to provide the opportunity for these kids, who need a lot of life lessons, to receive them from good teachers (i suppose assuming the business community in town is fairly decent). In the long run this sort of program helps supplement other programs that have been put in place as a reaction to maladaptive behaviors by reducing the flow of new delinquents. As far as an investment, we're not only putting money into something that'll save us money (essentially giving us our money back), we're also improving the lives of citizens.
 
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