Glenn Beck takes on skiing
- Thread starter KarmaInitiative
- Start date
Wis_Skier_23
Active member
I'm sorry you clearly have no idea whats going on, someone has to pay
for all of this, where do you magically think all this money is going
to come from??? I dont know where you live or how heavily you are
taxed, but here in Wisco we are constantly taxed here and there for
everything, we work over 4, almost 5 months out of the year just to pay
off all of our taxes before we get to put any of it into our pocket,
thats Jan all the way through April and partially into May that we
write off all our hard earned money to the government who wastefully
spends it....All we get is tax this tax that, oh now lets tax people's
guns, and lets tax people's beverages, let me ask you something where
does it all stop, how much is enough for Democrat's? One a tax is
imposed its never lifted, here we had a tax to build Miller Park which
is our baseball stadium....Now that its been built for quite some time
now you would think they would lift the tax, hmmmm nope still is in
effect, Shocker right there, Im not against taxes I just dont think we
should be nickel'd and dime'd for all our hard earned money
You see if the government was a private business it would have failed a
thousand times over, but because its constantly being bailed out by the
taxpayers they have nothing to worry about...Ronald Reagan said it best
with his quote of Government's view of the economy could be summed up
in a few short phrases: if it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving,
regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." The government is
in control of enough things they dont need to run health care, if you
want Socialized health care then move to Canada....My mother was
recently in Canada on a business trip and she ran into a guy in one of
her meetings who is in need for medical care. A week before he was
outside and slipped on some ice down his walkway, he tore a bunch of
stuff in his knee and after trying to be seen by a doctor he was put on
hold for almost 6 months before any surgery of any sorts could be
performed. You hear countless stories of people coming down from Canada
for transplants because of the immediate quality care they receive. If
you dont like America the way it is move to someplace else where life
is better, to allow the corrupt government to run our health care is
going to do nothing but bring the quality of it down.......OBAMA is the
worst thing to happen to our country
O ne
B ig
A ss
M istake
A merica
for all of this, where do you magically think all this money is going
to come from??? I dont know where you live or how heavily you are
taxed, but here in Wisco we are constantly taxed here and there for
everything, we work over 4, almost 5 months out of the year just to pay
off all of our taxes before we get to put any of it into our pocket,
thats Jan all the way through April and partially into May that we
write off all our hard earned money to the government who wastefully
spends it....All we get is tax this tax that, oh now lets tax people's
guns, and lets tax people's beverages, let me ask you something where
does it all stop, how much is enough for Democrat's? One a tax is
imposed its never lifted, here we had a tax to build Miller Park which
is our baseball stadium....Now that its been built for quite some time
now you would think they would lift the tax, hmmmm nope still is in
effect, Shocker right there, Im not against taxes I just dont think we
should be nickel'd and dime'd for all our hard earned money
You see if the government was a private business it would have failed a
thousand times over, but because its constantly being bailed out by the
taxpayers they have nothing to worry about...Ronald Reagan said it best
with his quote of Government's view of the economy could be summed up
in a few short phrases: if it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving,
regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." The government is
in control of enough things they dont need to run health care, if you
want Socialized health care then move to Canada....My mother was
recently in Canada on a business trip and she ran into a guy in one of
her meetings who is in need for medical care. A week before he was
outside and slipped on some ice down his walkway, he tore a bunch of
stuff in his knee and after trying to be seen by a doctor he was put on
hold for almost 6 months before any surgery of any sorts could be
performed. You hear countless stories of people coming down from Canada
for transplants because of the immediate quality care they receive. If
you dont like America the way it is move to someplace else where life
is better, to allow the corrupt government to run our health care is
going to do nothing but bring the quality of it down.......OBAMA is the
worst thing to happen to our country
O ne
B ig
A ss
M istake
A merica
Ben.
Active member
oh man. so much to respond to so little time. ill go point by point.
so you dont like taxes. i get that. but whining about things like baseball stadium taxes has nothing to do with obama, thats your wonderful local legislators. complain to them.
taxes actually are lifted. ever heard of the bush tax cuts? how about the tax cuts obama passed as part of the stimulus package. tax cuts that pretty much every average american received, unless you were making an very large sum of money. in fact, your beloved ronald reagan who you quoted actually had higher marginal tax rates for the top brackets than obama does.
and regardless of how much you make, you arent being "nickel'd and dime'd out of your money". period.
then you go on to talk about the taxpayer bailing out the government. im sorry? are you referring to the bank bailouts? because last time i checked, banks were banks, not the government, and they got us into this mess thanks to a lack of oversight or regulation (there i can cover part of your Reagan quote).
ahhh yes. then the infamous "you have to wait for months for healthcare" argument. first of all, for every anecdotal piece of evidence about "someone your mother met", or you know, etc. i or someone else will just pull out an equally anecdotal counter example, so really they are rather pointless.
but regardless, you wait for healtcare in the states as well. lots of people wait months for knee surgery. swelling has to go down, a certain level of stability has to be achieved, doctors are busy (here in the states too, believe it or not) etc etc. theres a whole host of reasons why he is most likely waiting before the "EVIL CANADIAN HEALTCARE" system comes into effect. in fact, depending on the survey, around 85% of canadians are quite pleased with what they have. and you dont see canadians keeling over every 10 minutes either, id say they are doing just fine.
then you go on to talk about the corrupt government running our healthcare. IF the public option passes (a big if at this point) it is just that. an OPTION. its not a takeover, its a choice for the millions upon millions who dont have insurance, and the millions more that will join them if nothing is done. companies are dumping coverage every day due to absurd premium hikes. for example in california, rates for BCBS policyholders just went up as much as 39%, regardless of the profits the insurance company had made the previous quarter. as this continues to happen, more and more people will lose their healtcare, because businesses simply cannot afford to provide it.
from there you go into "obama is the worst thing to happen to our country" and some fantastic acronym, all sounding rather like Fox news talking points, and achieving nothing whatsoever, so save it.
finally
in your previous post you stated that "they are trying to pass the single greatest spending bill in the history of our country". clearly you do not have a grasp of the fact that this healtcare bill is entirely unrelated to the stimulus bill that passed quite a while ago. obama says that the healtchare bill will be deficit neutral, which i dont believe either, but regardless, it is not "the greatest spending bill in the history of the country". so you fail there as well. that was where my, "you have no idea what you are talking about" comment came from. because you dont.
you also said that "we the taxpayer dont know whats in there". well then you should probably try reading, because in various places you can find the bill, and what it entails online. unless you mean the fact that it is written in legal language, which seems to be another conservative complaint. this makes no sense. it is a bill, it involves laws. those laws need to be written carefully, because if they were written in 4th grade english, the loopholes would be endless.
i realize this is a lot of writing, and even contains some facts and numbers, and very few media talking points, but id appreciate it if you would actually read it and think before you respond.
so you dont like taxes. i get that. but whining about things like baseball stadium taxes has nothing to do with obama, thats your wonderful local legislators. complain to them.
taxes actually are lifted. ever heard of the bush tax cuts? how about the tax cuts obama passed as part of the stimulus package. tax cuts that pretty much every average american received, unless you were making an very large sum of money. in fact, your beloved ronald reagan who you quoted actually had higher marginal tax rates for the top brackets than obama does.
and regardless of how much you make, you arent being "nickel'd and dime'd out of your money". period.
then you go on to talk about the taxpayer bailing out the government. im sorry? are you referring to the bank bailouts? because last time i checked, banks were banks, not the government, and they got us into this mess thanks to a lack of oversight or regulation (there i can cover part of your Reagan quote).
ahhh yes. then the infamous "you have to wait for months for healthcare" argument. first of all, for every anecdotal piece of evidence about "someone your mother met", or you know, etc. i or someone else will just pull out an equally anecdotal counter example, so really they are rather pointless.
but regardless, you wait for healtcare in the states as well. lots of people wait months for knee surgery. swelling has to go down, a certain level of stability has to be achieved, doctors are busy (here in the states too, believe it or not) etc etc. theres a whole host of reasons why he is most likely waiting before the "EVIL CANADIAN HEALTCARE" system comes into effect. in fact, depending on the survey, around 85% of canadians are quite pleased with what they have. and you dont see canadians keeling over every 10 minutes either, id say they are doing just fine.
then you go on to talk about the corrupt government running our healthcare. IF the public option passes (a big if at this point) it is just that. an OPTION. its not a takeover, its a choice for the millions upon millions who dont have insurance, and the millions more that will join them if nothing is done. companies are dumping coverage every day due to absurd premium hikes. for example in california, rates for BCBS policyholders just went up as much as 39%, regardless of the profits the insurance company had made the previous quarter. as this continues to happen, more and more people will lose their healtcare, because businesses simply cannot afford to provide it.
from there you go into "obama is the worst thing to happen to our country" and some fantastic acronym, all sounding rather like Fox news talking points, and achieving nothing whatsoever, so save it.
finally
in your previous post you stated that "they are trying to pass the single greatest spending bill in the history of our country". clearly you do not have a grasp of the fact that this healtcare bill is entirely unrelated to the stimulus bill that passed quite a while ago. obama says that the healtchare bill will be deficit neutral, which i dont believe either, but regardless, it is not "the greatest spending bill in the history of the country". so you fail there as well. that was where my, "you have no idea what you are talking about" comment came from. because you dont.
you also said that "we the taxpayer dont know whats in there". well then you should probably try reading, because in various places you can find the bill, and what it entails online. unless you mean the fact that it is written in legal language, which seems to be another conservative complaint. this makes no sense. it is a bill, it involves laws. those laws need to be written carefully, because if they were written in 4th grade english, the loopholes would be endless.
i realize this is a lot of writing, and even contains some facts and numbers, and very few media talking points, but id appreciate it if you would actually read it and think before you respond.
KarmaInitiative
Active member
^^ full of win
NW_Rider
Active member
This is where I do disagree, the public option, I believe is just a round about way to complete government run health insurance. This is Obama's genius though. Clinton tried to do it upfront and got shot down. This way however, you can set it up as just "friendly competition" and when the insurance companies get upset, you can make them look like the bad guys. A government run insurance program has one huge advantage over the private sector though, it can and will operate at a net loss. The private sector cannot do this. As the public option offers rates lower than the private sector can afford to make a profit at, they will begin to capitulate until the government run insurance program is the only thing left. As is the insurance companies profit margins range from 2-4 percent. If we could eliminate coverage mandates, allow insurance companies to sell policies across state lines, introduce TORT reform, set up HSA's and have higher deductibles, I think that it could do a lot to drastically decrease the cost of health insurance.
Ben.
Active member
granted this is no doubt because of my considerably more liberal views, but i just dont have faith that opening up state lines will force companies to lower costs. i think everyone will still continue to work together and raise prices, just like they do within a state now.
TORT reform i for the most part agree with, i think its a pretty good idea. i do worry a bit about the TRUE instances of malpractice though.
coverage mandates i think we DO need. right now anyone who goes into the ER gets care period, funded by you and i, the taxpayers. the ER is damn expensive (just look at the bill from when i dislocated my collarbone lol) yet thats the only line of care the uninsured have. by insuring them, you allow them access to preventative care that i have little doubt would be much cheaper in the long run.
i honestly think that it this point, its too late. that bill has been so hacked to pieces its underpowered, and 10 years down the line will be in the same, if not a worse situation. at that point the only option left will be a Canadian style single payer system.
TORT reform i for the most part agree with, i think its a pretty good idea. i do worry a bit about the TRUE instances of malpractice though.
coverage mandates i think we DO need. right now anyone who goes into the ER gets care period, funded by you and i, the taxpayers. the ER is damn expensive (just look at the bill from when i dislocated my collarbone lol) yet thats the only line of care the uninsured have. by insuring them, you allow them access to preventative care that i have little doubt would be much cheaper in the long run.
i honestly think that it this point, its too late. that bill has been so hacked to pieces its underpowered, and 10 years down the line will be in the same, if not a worse situation. at that point the only option left will be a Canadian style single payer system.
Wis_Skier_23
Active member
I understand that our baseball stadium tax has nothing to do with obama but its the liberal mindset that frustrates me. We work hard for our money and you pay so much of it off to wasteful spending. If the govt wanted to cut its debt then it should focus on stop spending taxpayer dollars wastefully. For example, The government cannot account for Billions of dollars they "lost or spent". How do you just not account for Billions of dollars, this is where i get so pissed off, and what was done because of it, nothing. And its okay for Pelosi to fly out all her family members luxuriously across the globe on our tab? Its gotta stop somewhere and why was Obama vacationing in Hawaii while another terrorist tries to bring one of our planes down again. And why is our president on a worldwide tour apologizing for America? He should be taking action not apologizing.
And yes I have heard of tax cuts, however for every tax he cuts he raises another, how do you think we are going to pay back this stimulus package. 3 trillion dollars is a hell of a lot of money to just write off, but at the end of the day where is it going to come from, you and me as the taxpayer. A simple finance concept which the government doesn't understand is "dont spend money you dont have." The democrats solution to our economic state is to just print more money off, oh that will solve our problem. Yea well ask Germany how that went. Printing money for the sake of printing money will do nothing but get us into more problems.
Regarding to the statement of our health care, here are the problems i see with it
1. You as the patient lose flexibility under Socialized health care
2. The government is in control of who gets what, I don't want to be denied care when I get old because my value of life is less than someone younger.
3. The government can mandate procedures which I might not agree with, but unfortunately thats too bad.
4. Decline in private practice options
5. The US is not built for one health care that covers everyone, the US is the 3rd largest country in terms of population as compared to Canada at 36th largest. The US is 9x larger than Canada the shear size will be a problem in trying to cover everyone
6. Lack of competition
7. The deficit will not be neutral either, we will end up paying more instead of less
And yes I have heard of tax cuts, however for every tax he cuts he raises another, how do you think we are going to pay back this stimulus package. 3 trillion dollars is a hell of a lot of money to just write off, but at the end of the day where is it going to come from, you and me as the taxpayer. A simple finance concept which the government doesn't understand is "dont spend money you dont have." The democrats solution to our economic state is to just print more money off, oh that will solve our problem. Yea well ask Germany how that went. Printing money for the sake of printing money will do nothing but get us into more problems.
Regarding to the statement of our health care, here are the problems i see with it
1. You as the patient lose flexibility under Socialized health care
2. The government is in control of who gets what, I don't want to be denied care when I get old because my value of life is less than someone younger.
3. The government can mandate procedures which I might not agree with, but unfortunately thats too bad.
4. Decline in private practice options
5. The US is not built for one health care that covers everyone, the US is the 3rd largest country in terms of population as compared to Canada at 36th largest. The US is 9x larger than Canada the shear size will be a problem in trying to cover everyone
6. Lack of competition
7. The deficit will not be neutral either, we will end up paying more instead of less
twin-tip-hero
Active member
yeah same here i can't see shit. its just blank and there is no video playing. not even the video player is coming up.
http://www.cnnbcvideo.com/taf.shtml?hp=1
you guys realize this isnt real right?
you guys realize this isnt real right?
NW_Rider
Active member
I didn't mean that, anyone who needs care and goes into the ER should get care. By coverage mandates I was referring to the mandates that insurance companies have to cover. Like covering a female for prostate cancer and a male for breast cancer. I think people should be able to tailor their policies to fit them and weed out policies that are incredibly unlikely to affect them. I just think it is stupid how politicians go out and say "Hey look! I made it so insurance companies have to cover everyone for (______) illness." when that illness is only associated with a specific group of people. Few people actually benefit from it, but everyone bears the cost.
For the rest of it though, I can see the perspective in which reform would be good, it's just not my preference. I'm not going to move to Costa Rica or anything like that if it passes though.
For the rest of it though, I can see the perspective in which reform would be good, it's just not my preference. I'm not going to move to Costa Rica or anything like that if it passes though.
Ben.
Active member
ugh, i just typed out a whole response for it not to post. here we go again.
wasteful spending. first of all, this is not exclusive to democrats, in fact most republicans also participate in this "wasteful spending" the problem is "wasteful" is all in the eye of the beholder.
to put things in perspective, in order for obama to balance the budget, he would have had to cut all discretionary spending (this includes things like education, HHS, veteran care, etc), and reduce defense spending from $663.7B to $197B.
this "cannot account for billions" crap. i need sources. multiple differing ones would be nice, but ill take what i can get.
the pelosi jet? really? this myth was debunked years ago, and a 5 second google search would have shown that, but here, ill do the work for you. http://www.snopes.com/politics/pelosi/jet.asp
you can also check out factcheck.org or any other nonpartisan fact checking spot for proof.
ah the obama vacation thing. first of all. it was one vacation over christmas with HIS FAMILY. he is still a human being (contrary to the belief of most Republicans) and still does human things. also, he is the President. i guarantee that all work does not stop the second he sets foot off the white house grounds. he can still work, still respond to things, etc. so please dont pretend that his location somehow effected his response.
in addition, as much as i hate the "well bush did it too" case, this is an argument where i think it is especially pertinent. you never heard a single conservative complain about the over 900 days that bush spent either at camp david or at his ranch. this is not to say that obama should do the same, merely pointing out the hypocrisy. it was one vacation, for what was it? a week? every president does that.
source http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-4728085-503544.html
apologizing. first of all, where are you going with all this? youve gone completely off track from our discussion, to other typical conservative talking points that have little actual substance. but ill respond anyway. he is not ON a tour, that was over long ago. and again, the president does not cease work the second he leaves the white house. if anything hes better off on AF1, because theres less people around to bother him. and not taking action? i dont know where you have been, but it seems to me that he has been taking action all over the place. its just hard to get things done when the opposing party's main goal is to deadlock congress, regardless of whats being passed. not to mention you need to make up your mind. is obama destroying america? or not getting anything done? its one or the other here.
tax cuts. where is he raising taxes instead of cutting them. again, sources please. im not going to post links to every tax he has cut, im not google.
3 trillion dollars? you seem to be confusing numbers here. the stimulus was 700 billion, not 3 trillion. please be consistent.
you cannot break down the US economy into "simple finance concepts" its far more complex than that. ever heard of the great depression? take a look at how FDR got us out of that, and what obamas doing. there are some blatant similarities. oh and please dont bring up the UCLA guys who say that FDR prolonged the depression. they are a fringe group, the vast majority of economists and historians agree that what he did stopped the depression. our recovery was simply accelerated by WWII
now on to the actual topic, healtcare. thanks for numbers, it will make response easier to follow.
1) Irrelevant, as this isnt socialized medicine, its a public OPTION (i really think you need to dig out the Merriam Webster and look up what this word means)
2)Really? Denied care when your older? stop with the death panel junk, and stop listening to Sarah Palin. this is simply absurd. its unfounded irrational fear, and nothing more.
3) What? are you implying the government is going to force you to have heart surgery? elaborate
4) Again, i am confused, elaborate.
5) Great, now im repeating myself. OPTION OPTION OPTION. canada is on a single payer system. the public option, if it passes, is just that, an option. it would not be covering everyone, not even close. not to mention that yes there are more people in america, that means more people paying in, and more doctors, not just more people drawing from healtcare.
6) Really? AGAIN. OPTION. this is simply ANOTHER competitor, its not eliminating them, if anything its actually increasing competition, rather than the monopolized hikes that go on today.
7) It absolutely will not be deficit neutral in the short run. Obama is not entirely telling the truth there. However in the long run it will save us money, see my above post on preventative vs emergency care to see my point.
wasteful spending. first of all, this is not exclusive to democrats, in fact most republicans also participate in this "wasteful spending" the problem is "wasteful" is all in the eye of the beholder.
to put things in perspective, in order for obama to balance the budget, he would have had to cut all discretionary spending (this includes things like education, HHS, veteran care, etc), and reduce defense spending from $663.7B to $197B.
this "cannot account for billions" crap. i need sources. multiple differing ones would be nice, but ill take what i can get.
the pelosi jet? really? this myth was debunked years ago, and a 5 second google search would have shown that, but here, ill do the work for you. http://www.snopes.com/politics/pelosi/jet.asp
you can also check out factcheck.org or any other nonpartisan fact checking spot for proof.
ah the obama vacation thing. first of all. it was one vacation over christmas with HIS FAMILY. he is still a human being (contrary to the belief of most Republicans) and still does human things. also, he is the President. i guarantee that all work does not stop the second he sets foot off the white house grounds. he can still work, still respond to things, etc. so please dont pretend that his location somehow effected his response.
in addition, as much as i hate the "well bush did it too" case, this is an argument where i think it is especially pertinent. you never heard a single conservative complain about the over 900 days that bush spent either at camp david or at his ranch. this is not to say that obama should do the same, merely pointing out the hypocrisy. it was one vacation, for what was it? a week? every president does that.
source http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-4728085-503544.html
apologizing. first of all, where are you going with all this? youve gone completely off track from our discussion, to other typical conservative talking points that have little actual substance. but ill respond anyway. he is not ON a tour, that was over long ago. and again, the president does not cease work the second he leaves the white house. if anything hes better off on AF1, because theres less people around to bother him. and not taking action? i dont know where you have been, but it seems to me that he has been taking action all over the place. its just hard to get things done when the opposing party's main goal is to deadlock congress, regardless of whats being passed. not to mention you need to make up your mind. is obama destroying america? or not getting anything done? its one or the other here.
tax cuts. where is he raising taxes instead of cutting them. again, sources please. im not going to post links to every tax he has cut, im not google.
3 trillion dollars? you seem to be confusing numbers here. the stimulus was 700 billion, not 3 trillion. please be consistent.
you cannot break down the US economy into "simple finance concepts" its far more complex than that. ever heard of the great depression? take a look at how FDR got us out of that, and what obamas doing. there are some blatant similarities. oh and please dont bring up the UCLA guys who say that FDR prolonged the depression. they are a fringe group, the vast majority of economists and historians agree that what he did stopped the depression. our recovery was simply accelerated by WWII
now on to the actual topic, healtcare. thanks for numbers, it will make response easier to follow.
1) Irrelevant, as this isnt socialized medicine, its a public OPTION (i really think you need to dig out the Merriam Webster and look up what this word means)
2)Really? Denied care when your older? stop with the death panel junk, and stop listening to Sarah Palin. this is simply absurd. its unfounded irrational fear, and nothing more.
3) What? are you implying the government is going to force you to have heart surgery? elaborate
4) Again, i am confused, elaborate.
5) Great, now im repeating myself. OPTION OPTION OPTION. canada is on a single payer system. the public option, if it passes, is just that, an option. it would not be covering everyone, not even close. not to mention that yes there are more people in america, that means more people paying in, and more doctors, not just more people drawing from healtcare.
6) Really? AGAIN. OPTION. this is simply ANOTHER competitor, its not eliminating them, if anything its actually increasing competition, rather than the monopolized hikes that go on today.
7) It absolutely will not be deficit neutral in the short run. Obama is not entirely telling the truth there. However in the long run it will save us money, see my above post on preventative vs emergency care to see my point.
Ben.
Active member
but cost comes from insurance companies actually covering it, not theoretically. so it doesnt matter if im covered for breast cancer, because theres a 99% chance that i will never get it, and thus the insurance company will never have to pay for it. maybe im missing something here, but i hope you get my point.
haha and an irony to mr Limbaugh and his costa rica remark. Costa Rica has government healthcare...
haha and an irony to mr Limbaugh and his costa rica remark. Costa Rica has government healthcare...
Wis_Skier_23
Active member
Here is where i got 3 trillion from
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/02/12/true-cost-of-stimulus-327-trillion/
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/02/12/true-cost-of-stimulus-327-trillion/
Ben.
Active member
news please. not a conservative blog. not to mention reading the actual text would help. thats what will happen if its permanently extended. its a recovery bill, not something forever.
not to mention any site that calls it the "Generational Theft Act" clearly cannot be taken as anything close to unbiased.
for a more concise answer. NO.
not to mention any site that calls it the "Generational Theft Act" clearly cannot be taken as anything close to unbiased.
for a more concise answer. NO.
vailsux.com
Active member
no, please tell me of the dangers of capitalism. While your at it tell me the inherent risks of being FREE.
_____________________________________
If you are taking Glenn Beck as more than entertainment you are retarded.
_____________________________________
If you are taking Glenn Beck as more than entertainment you are retarded.
Ben.
Active member
again, its a blog, not a real news source by any means. on top of that, not how much they have crossed out, due to the fact that they reported without doing all the research they needed to and then realizing they were entirely incorrect. clearly there was an ulterior motive here to smear pelosi, but rather than wait till the facts were in, they reported and then changed their info later when they realized they were wrong.
you really need to gain a better understanding of what constitutes a good, reliable source.
you really need to gain a better understanding of what constitutes a good, reliable source.
vailsux.com
Active member
On another note, Romney is going to take the presidency in 2012, bust some union ass, and get industrial on this bitch.
Ski_The_East10
Member
no one wants a mormon for president
KarmaInitiative
Active member
no one wants a moron for president
wait, same thing
wait, same thing
freestyler540
Active member
is this a joke?