GH4 vs A7s

*pbartram*

Member
I currently have the 5d mark iii which I bought when I wanted to stay 50/50 between photos and video but now I want to concentrate on video. I will be filming action sports and promotional video to begin with but I don't want to be tied down to a specific area of film making. I have researched both the cameras in question and I have a few issues with both.

Do you think the rolling shutter issues of the A7s will rule it out for filming action sports? (philip bloom seemed to think so)

Do you think the weaker low light performance of the GH4 is a major draw back?

Will I have to sell up all my glass and move to nikon if I were to go with the GH4?

These are just a few questions but I would love general opinions as well. Also are there any other cameras that you would suggest on a similar price point.

K+ for answers
 
If you're seriously considering video am fs100 or fs700 could be a great camera too.

Also Philip bloom is an idiot ignore anything he says especially anything related to action sports. He is the epitome of the pixel peeper.
 
The fs100 is a possibility actually but I think the fs700 would be a little too expensive, although it would be amazing to have it
 
Not really sure why you would buy an AS7 over a GH4 for action sports. I mean while both have extremely good video quality, there are so many advantages to the GH4 over the AS7 for action. The whole draw to the AS7 is the low light performance and if your shooting skiing thats kind of irrelevant.
 
13083767:Bhroscoe said:
Not really sure why you would buy an AS7 over a GH4 for action sports. I mean while both have extremely good video quality, there are so many advantages to the GH4 over the AS7 for action. The whole draw to the AS7 is the low light performance and if your shooting skiing thats kind of irrelevant.

Could you provide some more detail as to what kind of promotional shooting you will be doing?
 
13083771:Bhroscoe said:
Could you provide some more detail as to what kind of promotional shooting you will be doing?

Product videos, demonstrations of products, mainly simple stuff for small businesses. Also hopefully doing a few short films this year.
 
13083870:*pbartram* said:
Product videos, demonstrations of products, mainly simple stuff for small businesses. Also hopefully doing a few short films this year.

If you are in need of professional audio, I'd get an fs100.

Shooting with a gh4 or a7s you'll need expensive add ons. A brand new fs100 body is $3000, only like 500 more than an a7s, definitely worth it IMO. You already have canon glass as well so buy a metabones adapter and you're set.
 
For the next year I should be fine with the 5d, so do you think it's worth holding out for a new fs100? Or do you think the chances of this are slim?
 
13084124:lIllI said:
Why does everybody have such a boner for the A7s? For video it seems like a terrible camera.

They saw this one video and decided that the A7s ended apartheid for one, slowed down the nuclear arms race, stoped terrorism and world hunger. Provided food and shelter for the homeless, opposed racial discrimination and promoted civil rights, while also promoting equal rights for women.

 
13084162:omnidata said:
They saw this one video and decided that the A7s ended apartheid for one, slowed down the nuclear arms race, stoped terrorism and world hunger. Provided food and shelter for the homeless, opposed racial discrimination and promoted civil rights, while also promoting equal rights for women.


Aside from something as useless as night vision, what does it actually do? I keep seeing people praise its lowlight as if that's that's the deciding factor when choosing a camera.
 
13083964:pussyfooter said:
I mean, no? People only record audio outside of their camera when they have a dslr or shoot with film.

Well that's just not true. If we're talking narrative work people will most often have their sound recorded to an external recorder, and wirelessly project a copy of the signal into the camera from the mixer as a scratch track to sync. You don't need a built in XLR input to make that happen. I just shot a film on the Scarlet doing that and it worked just fine.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...Ew0-7sTEvkQnPMaAtFD8P8HAQ&is=REG&Q=&A=details

13084124:lIllI said:
Why does everybody have such a boner for the A7s? For video it seems like a terrible camera.

I guess you're right. ~14 stops of DR with Slog2, clean images at almost any ISO and 4k in a full frame body which has the option to crop to super 35 sounds terrible for video.

The heightened sensitivity isn't essential, you can shoot an entire film at 200, but it opens up creative possibilities. Being able to light a large interior with a couple tweenies and a set of 2x4 Kinos is a pretty exciting concept. I think in the right hands this could open up a new mentality towards lighting and cinematography.
 
13084254:.Max. said:
Well that's just not true. If we're talking narrative work people will most often have their sound recorded to an external recorder, and wirelessly project a copy of the signal into the camera from the mixer as a scratch track to sync. You don't need a built in XLR input to make that happen. I just shot a film on the Scarlet doing that and it worked just fine.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...Ew0-7sTEvkQnPMaAtFD8P8HAQ&is=REG&Q=&A=details

Well yeah of course, I'm speaking more generally hear and since were on a skiing website, more towards skiing as well.

My tv station owns 3 cameras 4x the price of a dslr with servo zooms/xlr inputs and then 1 7d. It all depends on what you do and for what I do and what I used to do, having xlr input is key.

But when it comes to video, there really isn't a "right" way to do anything, its all based on personal preference. Syncing audio in post isn't hard at all, but id still prefer xlr inputs on my camera.
 
13083723:pussyfooter said:
If you're seriously considering video am fs100 or fs700 could be a great camera too.

Also Philip bloom is an idiot ignore anything he says especially anything related to action sports. He is the epitome of the pixel peeper.

I am not sure this statement is accurate. Philip Bloom is very knowledgeable and creates great content. If you are reviewing a camera should you not be a pixel peeper? I mean i think his reviews are some of the most detailed honest and accurate reviews out there. Now granite he is in no way an action sports filmer and not everything he says aplies to that... but he is certainly not an idiot, he does a lot of good for the community.

OP i have a gh4 and i like it alot. The internal 4k over the a7s external 4k is a huge deal for me. I love the ability to use the gh4 as 4k in a small setting. If you want a camera that has all the bells and whistles its not the camera. First off the screen is horrible. I find it extremely hard to pull focus in any sort of somewhat bright light. So your going to need an external evf or monitor. Also the interface audio solution is garbage.. Truly garbage. It needs an external battery solution to run creating the need for a rod system ultimately bulking up the camera defeating the nice small compact body. Also the camera is awkward to hold for any sort of handheld work. So your also going to need a cage or support system of some sort.

Over all a good camera. But if you really want a good A cam i would look at an fs100 or fs700 like evan said. The will give you the complete package that ultimately will flow better on set
 
13084810:j-cal said:
I am not sure this statement is accurate. Philip Bloom is very knowledgeable and creates great content. If you are reviewing a camera should you not be a pixel peeper? I mean i think his reviews are some of the most detailed honest and accurate reviews out there. Now granite he is in no way an action sports filmer and not everything he says aplies to that... but he is certainly not an idiot, he does a lot of good for the community.

Hi Jake

Here's my two cents:

Philip Bloom's reputation as a camera reviewer and industry figure precede him. The guy is utilizing the internet in the very way that it should be: providing free empirical content to lubricate the channels of commerce and art. Talk about a sweet deal. Has there ever been a better time to be a self-taught artist?

The problem is that he is perhaps unfairly judged by the superficiality of his followers. Pixel peeping is inherent in his task. The entire point of his reviews is to do just that - to put to test the validity of the reported specs of a camera (many companies, namely Canon, are known to essentially lie about their specs). In my opinion he does this fairly gracefully. Not long after his site started gaining momentum, he noticed his followers' inability to step back and see the context of pixel peeping. Now in every review he emphasizes (in bold letters) that cameras are only tools, and that their specs are only a measure of internal economy in enabling the operator to perform unimpeded. If anyone doesn't know what I mean by that, let me know and I'd be happy to explain.

Camera reviews are all well and good, but the inexperienced consumer is not able to contextualize the information appropriately. Many of his viewers have this ludicrous notion in their heads that better specs => better images. Anybody who done this long enough knows that this is a damn foolish thing to believe (within reason, of course).

The unseen variable in all this is, of course, how a camera performs in a working environment (notice how I didn't say "professional"). This of any other art form and their respective tools: A paint brush extends the movements of the hand almost flawlessly with no interruption of dexterity. Make a mistake? Good luck convincing someone it was the brush's fault. A guitar's ability to resolve a chord depends on the player's ability to apply consistent pressure across the strings, and to strum each of the six strings with varying amounts of force so that each string's harmonic frequencies do not overbear the others' with transients. Again, this is entirely in the hands of the user. That is why it is called an instrument. It is nothing more than the projection of one's muscles, neurons, and creativity. This is where Leica gets its prestige - not because of some exclusive feature that only the Germans have invented - but because of how the instrument performs unfalteringly in its environment. Almost nobody emphasizes the importance of this variable. Bloom touches down on it, but in my opinion he grossly skims over it. We have 4K slog handheld cameras using non-locking connectors and impractical baseplates that rotate no matter how much you tighten them, and nobody is asking questions because hey - 4K absolves everything, right? Put the camera on the ground, tell it to make art, and go get some lunch.

What irks me about camera culture is that with its democratization, you have a massive population of new people who fail to see the gear for what they are: instruments. These people do not yet have the hours of blood, sweat, and tears poured into the craft to understand its nuance and subtleties, and instead rely on a cheap metric (specs) to quantify that which they cannot possibly understand yet (can you blame them? We've all been there at some point.) The market is catering to this rapidly growing demographic, and in the past 10 years I've seen a huge change in the overall attitude of its cohorts.

Make of this what you will. The best digital video footage I've ever seen was from a DVX100b on a CRT TV, or a GH2, Voigtlander prime, and natural lighting. All this octocopter RED EPIC night vision garbage isn't impressing me, and with each new gimmick that arises every NAB, I spend a disproportionate amount of time hiding Facebook statuses from people raving about some new feature that is both revolutionary and useless.
 
13084825:lIllI said:
Hi Jake

Here's my two cents:

Philip Bloom's reputation as a camera reviewer and industry figure precede him. The guy is utilizing the internet in the very way that it should be: providing free empirical content to lubricate the channels of commerce and art. Talk about a sweet deal. Has there ever been a better time to be a self-taught artist?

The problem is that he is perhaps unfairly judged by the superficiality of his followers. Pixel peeping is inherent in his task. The entire point of his reviews is to do just that - to put to test the validity of the reported specs of a camera (many companies, namely Canon, are known to essentially lie about their specs). In my opinion he does this fairly gracefully. Not long after his site started gaining momentum, he noticed his followers' inability to step back and see the context of pixel peeping. Now in every review he emphasizes (in bold letters) that cameras are only tools, and that their specs are only a measure of internal economy in enabling the operator to perform unimpeded. If anyone doesn't know what I mean by that, let me know and I'd be happy to explain.

Camera reviews are all well and good, but the inexperienced consumer is not able to contextualize the information appropriately. Many of his viewers have this ludicrous notion in their heads that better specs => better images. Anybody who done this long enough knows that this is a damn foolish thing to believe (within reason, of course).

The unseen variable in all this is, of course, how a camera performs in a working environment (notice how I didn't say "professional"). This of any other art form and their respective tools: A paint brush extends the movements of the hand almost flawlessly with no interruption of dexterity. Make a mistake? Good luck convincing someone it was the brush's fault. A guitar's ability to resolve a chord depends on the player's ability to apply consistent pressure across the strings, and to strum each of the six strings with varying amounts of force so that each string's harmonic frequencies do not overbear the others' with transients. Again, this is entirely in the hands of the user. That is why it is called an instrument. It is nothing more than the projection of one's muscles, neurons, and creativity. This is where Leica gets its prestige - not because of some exclusive feature that only the Germans have invented - but because of how the instrument performs unfalteringly in its environment. Almost nobody emphasizes the importance of this variable. Bloom touches down on it, but in my opinion he grossly skims over it. We have 4K slog handheld cameras using non-locking connectors and impractical baseplates that rotate no matter how much you tighten them, and nobody is asking questions because hey - 4K absolves everything, right? Put the camera on the ground, tell it to make art, and go get some lunch.

What irks me about camera culture is that with its democratization, you have a massive population of new people who fail to see the gear for what they are: instruments. These people do not yet have the hours of blood, sweat, and tears poured into the craft to understand its nuance and subtleties, and instead rely on a cheap metric (specs) to quantify that which they cannot possibly understand yet (can you blame them? We've all been there at some point.) The market is catering to this rapidly growing demographic, and in the past 10 years I've seen a huge change in the overall attitude of its cohorts.

Make of this what you will. The best digital video footage I've ever seen was from a DVX100b on a CRT TV, or a GH2, Voigtlander prime, and natural lighting. All this octocopter RED EPIC night vision garbage isn't impressing me, and with each new gimmick that arises every NAB, I spend a disproportionate amount of time hiding Facebook statuses from people raving about some new feature that is both revolutionary and useless.

Good read interesting view. I think i am understanding what you are saying. Nice points have never thought of it this way.
 
13084810:j-cal said:
I am not sure this statement is accurate. Philip Bloom is very knowledgeable and creates great content. If you are reviewing a camera should you not be a pixel peeper? I mean i think his reviews are some of the most detailed honest and accurate reviews out there.

hes just way too picky and particular for me, every camera with a CMOS sensor has rolling shutter but the terrible rolling shutter of a 7d never was a problem for anyone I know...
 
Bump.

I am choosing between an a7s and a gh4 for about 60/40 video stills. Any more thoughts?

right now I am leaning towards the a7s because I mainly do documentary with available light, its hd video looks like film and the shots it produces are stunningly beautiful when shot in slog and graded.

The gh4's got better resolution but seems to have a more video look and just doesn't produce as aesthetically pretty shots IMO.

hodor
 
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