Germanwings airliner crashes in French Alps

Laurent.

Laurent.

Active member
(Reuters) - An Airbus plane operated by Lufthansa's Germanwings budget airline crashed in southern France on Tuesday en route from Barcelona to Duesseldorf, police and aviation officials said.

French Prime Minister Manuel Valls said he understood between 142 and 150 people were on board and feared dead.

"The cause is at present unknown," he told reporters.

A spokesman for the DGAC aviation authority said the airplane crashed near the town of Barcelonnette about 100 km (65 miles) north of the French Riviera city of Nice.

Lufthansa's Germanwings unit said it was as yet unable to verify reports of the crash.

The crashed A320 is 24 years old and has been with the parent Lufthansa group since 1991, according to online database airfleets.net

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France 24 English livestream:

 
144 passengers and 6 crew members were on board. no survivors.

locals from a nearby village had said that the plane had a strange sound and it flew very low. the pilots' last word were 'emergency, emergency' (straight translate from a finnish news article). parts from the plane are found in an area that is 2 square kilometers.

this is extremely bad news, thoughts are with the families who lost their family members.

RIP
 
First image of the crash site, the impact must have been tremendous, the entire plane has disintegrated.

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Been watching the live updates for 2 hours now, I feel sick to my stomach. Thats a route my dad has been flying many times. He went on a business trip this morning, and when I heard about this I immediately thought it was his plane.

Apparently it was a group of 16 german high school kids who had been on an exchange trip to Barcelona on the plane, the exact same deal a majority of my friends did in high school as well. Im sorry, but this just hit me super hard.
 
Wow that image of the crash site...

Just a blind guess here, but maybe something happened to incapacitate the pilots. It seems like the aircraft descended at a slow rate but high speed.
 
is it normal/safe for airlines to use 20 year old planes? I feel like some issues will arise when you're running equipment that old. Obviously maintenance is a big part of it, but mostly the cheaper airlines use older planes, correct?
 
13378094:DeebieSkeebies said:
is it normal/safe for airlines to use 20 year old planes? I feel like some issues will arise when you're running equipment that old. Obviously maintenance is a big part of it, but mostly the cheaper airlines use older planes, correct?
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Not necessarily. As long as proper maintenance is done, they can keep flying four decades. The plane that crashed in this instance actually just had a check yesterday, and is looked after by Lufthansa which is famous for their high quality maintenance.
 
13378105:fujarome said:
Not necessarily. As long as proper maintenance is done, they can keep flying four decades. The plane that crashed in this instance actually just had a check yesterday, and is looked after by Lufthansa which is famous for their high quality maintenance.
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Thanks for the info, man. interesting to know that they are highly touted for their maintenance, though im sure it had nothing to do with the crash.

Its just wild to think that 100 or so people can be killed in an instant like that. Cant even begin to fathom what those families are dealing with ATM
 
Is it just me growing older and being more aware of these kind of things or have there been tons of plane crashes lately
 
13378170:cool_name said:
Is it just me growing older and being more aware of these kind of things or have there been tons of plane crashes lately
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The news scrutinizes on airplanes now so if anything big or small happens about an airliner you'll see it. Just them choosing what they want us to see
 
13378170:cool_name said:
Is it just me growing older and being more aware of these kind of things or have there been tons of plane crashes lately
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The fact that it's still a huge news story is evidence enough that plane crashes are not a common occurrence.

Aircraft are still unbelievably safe these days.
 
13378266:Chubbs. said:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/03/24/germanwings_airbus_crash_are_there_more_plane_crashes_now_than_before_or.html

literally explains your exact question
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the fall in fatal accidents per year starting in the early 90's is probably a direct result of Aeroflot getting their shit together once the Soviet Union was abolished.
 
Dang, this sucks to see. I think it is some kind of controls malfunction, whether that be pilot error or aircraft malfunction I have no idea. Although the french and airbus are known for using autopilot over man controlled makes me think it was an aircraft malfunction. I think it will be interesting to see what officials determine from the black boxes. Either way, as an aerospace engineer, seeing how one of my errors could kill hundreds is truly haunting.
 
13378585:Left_Brothers said:
Dang, this sucks to see. I think it is some kind of controls malfunction, whether that be pilot error or aircraft malfunction I have no idea. Although the french and airbus are known for using autopilot over man controlled makes me think it was an aircraft malfunction. I think it will be interesting to see what officials determine from the black boxes. Either way, as an aerospace engineer, seeing how one of my errors could kill hundreds is truly haunting.
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I've been hearing talk about the pilot deliberately crashing it.. which sounds like complete bogus, but I've still heard that.

Pilot error seems likely considering a lack of warning messages from them, which they most certainly would have sent out it there was an aircraft malfunction.
 
13378594:VinnieF said:
I've been hearing talk about the pilot deliberately crashing it.. which sounds like complete bogus, but I've still heard that.

Pilot error seems likely considering a lack of warning messages from them, which they most certainly would have sent out it there was an aircraft malfunction.
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Ya, it is a strange situation. That is a possibility that ran through my mind too I could definitely see that happening, or as much as I hate to say it, even some act of terrorism.
 
13378281:VinnieF said:
the fall in fatal accidents per year starting in the early 90's is probably a direct result of Aeroflot getting their shit together once the Soviet Union was abolished.
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It must have helped that they broke up Aeroflot into many different companies, statics get a bit skewed when at the height of your power you have well over 6000 airframes which includes single seater crop dusters in far off regions of Siberia. They had more planes then the no. 2 till 8 of other largest airline's combined.
 
13378594:VinnieF said:
I've been hearing talk about the pilot deliberately crashing it.. which sounds like complete bogus, but I've still heard that.

Pilot error seems likely considering a lack of warning messages from them, which they most certainly would have sent out it there was an aircraft malfunction.
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Well according to the audio on the CVR investigators believe the pilot left the cockpit, then he tried to return, and was locked out by the co-pilot. Apparently you can hear him screaming to get back and and trying to break into back into the cockpit. Pretty chilling stuff. It will be interesting to see some other flight data from the black box, and from that investigators should be able to piece together what the co-pilot was actually doing.
 
The co-pilot of the Germanwings plane that crashed into the French Alps on Tuesday appeared to want to "destroy the plane", French officials said.

Marseille prosecutor Brice Robin, citing information from the "black box" voice recorder, said the co-pilot was alone in the cockpit.

He intentionally started a descent while the pilot was locked out.



Mr Robin said there was "absolute silence in the cockpit" as the pilot fought to re-enter it.

The co-pilot, now named as Andreas Lubitz, 28, was alive until the final impact, the prosecutors added.



The Airbus 320 from Barcelona to Duesseldorf hit a mountain, killing all 144 passengers and six crew, after a rapid eight-minute descent.

"We hear the pilot ask the co-pilot to take control of the plane and we hear at the same time the sound of a seat moving backwards and the sound of a door closing," Mr Robin told reporters.



"At that moment, the co-pilot is controlling the plane by himself. While he is alone, the co-pilot presses the buttons of the flight monitoring system to put into action the descent of the aeroplane.

"This action on the altitude controls can only be deliberate."



He added: "The most plausible interpretation is that the co-pilot through a voluntary act had refused to open the cabin door to let the captain in. He pushed the button to trigger the aircraft to lose altitude. He operated this button for a reason we don't know yet, but it appears that the reason was to destroy this plane."



Mr Robin added that air traffic controllers made repeated attempts to contact the aircraft, but to no avail.

The co-pilot was not known to have any links with terrorism, he said.
 
It looked sketchy right away when a plane crashed in clear weather after just getting a thoroUgh maintenance check the day before
 
This accident took a very sad, terrifying turn very quickly. Every time there's a plane crash I always hope the people weren't aware. But in this case, they were very unfortunately well aware the entire time of what was happening
 
so apparently there are not rules in Germany requiring two people to be in the cockpit at all times? from what I understand, when a US pilot/co-pilot needs to leave the cockpit to use the facilities or whatever, a flight attendant has to come up to the cockpit and remain there until the other returns.
 
13380333:Barefootin_Fiend said:
so apparently there are not rules in Germany requiring two people to be in the cockpit at all times? from what I understand, when a US pilot/co-pilot needs to leave the cockpit to use the facilities or whatever, a flight attendant has to come up to the cockpit and remain there until the other returns.
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Hopefully after this there are rules now
 
they're now saying the co-pilot deliberately crashed the plane after locking the pilot out of the cockpit
 
13378594:VinnieF said:
I've been hearing talk about the pilot deliberately crashing it.. which sounds like complete bogus, but I've still heard that.
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this might be the first time the out of left field conspiracy-ish predictions I've heard were actually right.
 
13380433:VinnieF said:
this might be the first time the out of left field conspiracy-ish predictions I've heard were actually right.
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No kidding. Leading up to it my dad and I had been talking about a probable cause. We were thinking it was something related to a recent airworthiness directive that had been issued, it regarded the angle of attack probe and some issues with it freezing. It sounded semi inline with the crash. When he told me the new findings last night I rolled my eyes and kind of blew it off. Looked it up online and was totally mindblown.
 
13378094:DeebieSkeebies said:
is it normal/safe for airlines to use 20 year old planes? I feel like some issues will arise when you're running equipment that old.
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I'm not sure your answer but in Cuba they still drive in cars from the 50s. It looms quite bizarre but they take good care of what they have. Airlines do take great care in their maintenance.
 
13380433:VinnieF said:
this might be the first time the out of left field conspiracy-ish predictions I've heard were actually right.
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It was released via the New York Times and supposedly some French government leak late last night. I'd hardly consider that to be a conspiracy theory ish idea.

I get the feeling this will lead to huge changes in the cockpit door procedures.
 
13380558:fujarome said:
It was released via the New York Times and supposedly some French government leak late last night. I'd hardly consider that to be a conspiracy theory ish idea.

I get the feeling this will lead to huge changes in the cockpit door procedures.
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i think the system makes perfect sense though, right?

i think the problem here was that while in the US it's SOP to have a flight attendant take the pilot's place while he pees, then switches back with him, they're more lax about this in europe (so i hear)

on the other hand, why not have a code that opens the door regardless of what the people inside want? yeah, a terrorist could say okay well we're gonna kill a passenger every 15 seconds til you tell us the code, but they could do the same until they just unlock it for them with the current system

idk there's no perfect system i don't think. this isnt the first time a suicidal/homicidal pilot has downed a plane (egypt air)..gotta worry about both sides of that door

this stuff happens very infrequently though, relatively speaking. but that doesn't change the fact that a plane is a huge missile in the wrong hands... idk
 
13380588:Titsandwich11 said:
i think the system makes perfect sense though, right?

i think the problem here was that while in the US it's SOP to have a flight attendant take the pilot's place while he pees, then switches back with him, they're more lax about this in europe (so i hear)

on the other hand, why not have a code that opens the door regardless of what the people inside want? yeah, a terrorist could say okay well we're gonna kill a passenger every 15 seconds til you tell us the code, but they could do the same until they just unlock it for them with the current system

idk there's no perfect system i don't think. this isnt the first time a suicidal/homicidal pilot has downed a plane (egypt air)..gotta worry about both sides of that door

this stuff happens very infrequently though, relatively speaking. but that doesn't change the fact that a plane is a huge missile in the wrong hands... idk
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from everything i've gathered, there are multiple locking modes on a cockpit door. unlocked, locked but accessible via key code entry from the exterior, and locked and inaccessible from the exterior. ultimately, the pilots have to have a sure fire way of keeping everyone else out of the plane or else a hostage/flight attendant can be pressured in to opening the cockpit door.

Really, the only sure fire way of ensuring that the plane isn't taken out by a rogue pilot is to have a second party in the cockpit at ALL times. Obviously, this second person could become incapacitated by a rogue pilot, but that is an even more unlikely event...
 
13380612:Barefootin_Fiend said:
from everything i've gathered, there are multiple locking modes on a cockpit door. unlocked, locked but accessible via key code entry from the exterior, and locked and inaccessible from the exterior. ultimately, the pilots have to have a sure fire way of keeping everyone else out of the plane or else a hostage/flight attendant can be pressured in to opening the cockpit door.

Really, the only sure fire way of ensuring that the plane isn't taken out by a rogue pilot is to have a second party in the cockpit at ALL times. Obviously, this second person could become incapacitated by a rogue pilot, but that is an even more unlikely event...
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yeah im pretty sure what happens is the door closes and locks, and can be of course unlocked by the guy inside. outside, the other person can enter a code to open the door, but it's delayed so the person inside has like 30 seconds to veto that action (and it remains in effect for some time, maybe a few minutes? idk).

i think there are other settings (i think it's Unlock, Normal, and Lock that he chooses from) but SOP is having it on normal so it needs to be requested open. there are videos and pics posted in a lot of places, check em out

yep, we agree that the missing part here is the two people inside at all times. like you said, that also can be "fixed" by the bad guy but it's one more safety measure and decreases the chances of a problem further
 
The co pilot who caused the crash had destroyed the recent document from his doctor saying he was in no state to work at all? He was treated for something they wont say (but depression seems most likely), but he managed to cover up the fact that he was under flight prohibition.
 
13381677:Jane6 said:
The co pilot who caused the crash had destroyed the recent document from his doctor saying he was in no state to work at all? He was treated for something they wont say (but depression seems most likely), but he managed to cover up the fact that he was under flight prohibition.
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doesn't sound too hard to do considering that they don't have regular psych evals in Germany for pilots - it's only considered during hiring. Hopefully this changes.

It looks as if they've already mandated a 2 person minimum in the cockpit at all times, so good to see they're not dragging their feet.
 
13381677:Jane6 said:
The co pilot who caused the crash had destroyed the recent document from his doctor saying he was in no state to work at all? He was treated for something they wont say (but depression seems most likely), but he managed to cover up the fact that he was under flight prohibition.
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doesn't sound too hard to do considering that they don't have regular psych evals in Germany for pilots - it's only considered during hiring. Hopefully this changes.

It looks as if they've already mandated a 2 person minimum in the cockpit at all times, so good to see they're not dragging their feet.
 
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