George bush=greatest president of all time!!!

wilkesyachtingco

Active member
now that ive got all you to open the thread...

so this one time i was reading this board, and some really, really smart kids were talking intelligently about their opinions on the state of things in this world of ours. as is always the case here in the NSG, hard facts were always given to back up different peoples opinions, that were almost always not increadibly polar, and always well thought out.

i was reminded of this when i was reading this article, and thought that mostly for my own entertainment, i would post it here, and let the resident scholars of new schoolers have a crack at it.

since i know that even though the vast majority of you have the paitience and the cognitive ability to read entire articles in one sitting, i probably dont have to do this, but for the one or two of you who might not have the time to undertake such a daunting read, i will summerize the article.

george bush II is responsible for the steps that are being taken towards democracy in the middle east. in fact, heres a direct quote from the article, which appears in the economist magazine this week.

"Ms Rice won over even a few Egyptian sceptics by appealing to their pride, suggesting that their country should lead the region in political progress as it has led before in pursuing peace. Lebanon’s dramatic overthrow of veiled Syrian rule this spring was only made possible by American-led moves to de-claw and box in Syria’s regime. And these moves were made possible by the toppling of Saddam Hussein."

so lets hear it folks.

Tentative steps down the road to democracy

Sep 7th 2005

From The Economist Global Agenda

American influence has helped to tip the balance of forces in the Middle East towards reform. The changes remain shallow for now—even in Egypt, which is holding its first contested presidential election this week—but democracy is no longer a pipe dream

AP

Democracy, of sorts, in action

IT WAS a lopsided fight, hastily arranged, poorly refereed, and pitting a big bruiser against bantams. Still, Egypt’s first-ever presidential election, on Wednesday September 7th, marked a watershed. Perhaps more than any other recent Middle Eastern event, from January’s elections in Iraq to the “Cedar Revolution� in Lebanon, the simple running of a public political contest in the oldest, largest and most archetypically autocratic of Arab states presages an acceleration of the momentum for change in a region notable for political backwardness.

As in similarly novel elections for the top post over recent years, in such Arab republics as Algeria and Tunisia for example, the incumbent was expected to sweep rivals aside with ease. But Hosni Mubarak’s sure-fire win, extending his term to 2011, is less significant than was the scale of political ferment unleashed by the campaigning itself.

Twenty-four unchallenged years in power, and control of a vast state apparatus, gave Mr Mubarak (pictured) a huge advantage. Yet his main rivals still managed to get their message out in an unprecedentedly noisy barrage of speechmaking and publicity. This was unlikely to inspire a large turnout. A legacy of deep cynicism, the barring of potentially popular Islamist candidates and procedural obstacles to voter registration were expected to keep numbers down. But the spectacle of public, often impassioned criticism and the very possibility of choice appear to have opened up new ways of thinking, focused minds on real issues, and emboldened activist groups that were already pressing for reform. “I’ve toured 15 out of 26 governorates, and not one single pane of glass was broken,� declared Ayman Nour, the youngest presidential challenger. “So how come we’ve been told for 24 years that we need riot police and emergency laws, that we aren’t ready for democracy?�

The Egyptian government has information on the presidential elections. See also President Mubarak's campaign website. America's Council on Foreign Relations discusses the elections in Egypt and democracy in the Arab world. America's State Department outlines its Middle East Partnership Initiative. The Institute of Peace explores “Challenges to Genuine Democratisation in the Arab World� while the International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance publishes “Building Democracy in Egypt�, one part of its report “Democracy in the Arab World�.

Democracy is not quite what Egyptians have got. Mr Mubarak’s regime, like the “reformist� ruling elites of nearby countries such as Jordan, Bahrain and Morocco, has yet to relinquish real control of the pace and scale of change. Its powers remain multiple and unchallenged, from the president’s appointing of regional governors, mayors and village headmen right down to police officers’ virtual immunity from punishment if they happen to maltreat suspects. “Three minutes of freedom� is what one Egyptian intellectual dubbed his country’s 19-day official campaign period.

Not surprisingly, many Arabs suspect that reforms in Egypt and elsewhere are cosmetic, intended mainly to appease the Bush administration, which actively preaches democratisation as a foil to extremism. This is not entirely fair. In Egypt, for instance, reformist currents have gained prominence within the ruling National Democratic Party, just as they have within ruling families in the Gulf. Some argue that the government needs democratic legitimacy, as much to enable it to stand up to America as to better sell the kind of liberal economic policies they believe are the surest course to prosperity.

(if youve made it this far, i congradulate you on being more capable than 97 percent of the people who have opened this thread)

Other factors weigh in for change. Across the Arab world, demography, technology and communications have sparked a revolution in expectations. Satellite television presents clashing ideas, promoting a refreshing culture of debate. The fading of the post-colonial generation of leaders, and the failure of their pan-Arab project, has led to a loss of prestige for the patriarchal power structure that has long characterised Arab states. To disenfranchised youths facing such region-wide plagues as unemployment and housing shortages, radical Islam has sometimes appealed. But the violent excess of extremist militants has prompted many to seek practical solutions. Egypt’s campaign rhetoric, for example, stressed domestic issues rather than the kind of perceived great injustices—Palestine, Iraq, Islam-bashing—that have traditionally grabbed the attention of the Arab Street.

It is also true that American pressure for democratisation has been inconsistent. The much-touted American aid programme meant to promote reform, the Middle East Partnership Initiative, currently receives yearly funding barely equal to what America spends in Iraq every 12 hours. Washington bureaucracy delayed funds for some democracy activists in Egypt. Others that did get American money include groups seeking to monitor the elections, but a quasi-official election commission blocked them from doing the job.

American policy priorities have also clashed with reformist goals. Pursuing terrorism by “rendering� suspects to torture-prone governments undercuts the many local groups lobbying to end such practices. Rather than being hailed as a model for pluralism, Iraq is widely seen as a chaos to be avoided. Many Arabs view its new constitution as the outcome of an American plot to divide and rule. Most Arab reformers warm much more to the caustic critiques of American filmmaker Michael Moore than to George Bush’s “Forward Strategy of Freedom�. Few believe that when push comes to shove, America’s democratic principles will outweigh its thirst for oil.

Yet there is little doubt that American influence has helped to tip the balance of regional forces in favour of reform. A coincidence, perhaps, but it was shortly after Condoleezza Rice, America’s secretary of state, abruptly cancelled a scheduled visit to Egypt that Mr Mubarak announced his initiative to hold contested presidential elections. Later, speaking in Cairo, Ms Rice won over even a few Egyptian sceptics by appealing to their pride, suggesting that their country should lead the region in political progress as it has led before in pursuing peace. Lebanon’s dramatic overthrow of veiled Syrian rule this spring was only made possible by American-led moves to de-claw and box in Syria’s regime. And these moves were made possible by the toppling of Saddam Hussein.

And if the changes in many countries remain shallow, the whole floor of public debate has clearly shifted to questions of when and how to reform, rather than why. This is true even of regional laggards such as Libya, Saudi Arabia and Syria, which have all taken wobbly first steps towards wider public participation in government. Where bigger steps have been taken, such as in Egypt, the public appetite has been whetted rather than appeased. “This election was just a drill, which the government would never have accepted without foreign badgering,� admits an Egyptian official. “But it sets the stage for parliamentary elections that may get really interesting.� These are scheduled for November. If debate stays lively until then, a lot more Egyptians may actually bother to vote.

Mercy's eyes are blue

When she places them in front of you

Nothing holds a roman candle to

The solemn warmth you feel inside

 
george bush doesnt like black ppl

======================================

Sean

$ $ $ $ $ B O S T O N | B A C K C O U N T R Y $ $ $ $ $
 
yeah george bush=biggest douche in the universe.

and fuck reading dude, i bet only 2 people read that, you and, never mind one person

what's up now bitch

"i see you have gotten the most recent pic of atlantaski and i must say he is looking pretty dark for a wigger"- Lats reply to a picture of a piece of shit in a toilet

ACLs suck
 
bush is the man, he does whats right for us, even tho most people cant see that and just bitch at him for the hell of it.

-kulpy-

gangsta raps lyrics are all the same, Someone gets shot, someones frontin, someones a wangsta, someones benchpressin, someones makin fried chicken, and the beans dont burn on the grill. You can see that shit in kentucky. Fuck the bronx, deep south bitches-scientist
 
I love you Anewmorning.

-Joe

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well there were no weapons in Iraq and there goes Iran, happily making all their nukes and hating the US. Katrian was a disaster and so are his shitty speaches where he always calls out God or something. There went separation of church and state

-Killa Cam
 
As Mr. Wilkes makes his point: everyone on this website is retarded.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

"Most guys know that women dig guys with money. Would Donald Trump be fucking models if he wasn't rich? That question is rhetorical. Now I don't even believe this is wrong, I think it is just nature. But I also think women who are this way (and it is almost all of you) should be honest and admit that they are basically whores, and stop saying bad things about the so-called "actual whores" who are just trying to earn an honest living."
 
not retarded just easily led

"I have to raise my standards to bang a fatty" - Ice-Is-Scary

NS Skateboarding
 
hobble bosh i say, HOBBLE BOSH

Anyway, a gas station we pass. We got gas, and ran off to get grub.It was a nice little pub in the middle on nowhere. Anywhere woulda been better. I ordered enchiladas and I ate 'em, Ali had the fruit punch.

 
I read it.

------------------------

The only rich people who are truly lucky are the ones who win the lottery.

-Apple

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

**Proud member of the d-loc fanclub**
 
I take offense to that.

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We are the resistance, our last line of defense. We are bred to fight for our promised land. Rebels at heart, they will hunt us till the ends of the earth. The chase is on--forever going on and on.
 
Now for my thoughts on the topic of the thread.

I think it's incredible that through technological assimiliation and cultural reform, in addition to the efforts of the Bush administration and their push for democracy, that radical countries whose governments support (IMO) immoral, wrong acts, can move towards a more equal, democratic society.

I have no issue with helping Arab nations (or any nation) enable their people with political power or equal rights (womens suffrage, etc.). I do have a problem with how we go about doing it, i.e. starting a war in Iraq with no complete plan as to how we're going to finish the job (no matter how many mission accomplished banners we put up, until that country is stable and the troops are home, it's not done, IMO).

The article states that the fall of Sadaam Hussein facilitated the "declawing" of the Syrian government amid additional diplomatic pressure from the Bush administration. I'd like to see some more evidence that supports that, as it was sort of thrown in the article's mix without any support.

Also: I'm not really sure we're the ones to be spreading democracy when we don't really have the model form. Most of our population doesn't vote, our wealth is concentrated in the upper echelons of society, and our government doesn't represent the majority of the people, in my perception. Most people are moderate and we have an extreme administration. The liberal version of the Bush adminnistration doesn't make me any happier, btw. The point of this paragraph is--our democracy isn't really working, IMO, so I'm not sure pushing other nations to be capitalistic, over consuming resource mongers is the right approach.

However, like I said earlier, I'm all for reform. If we can get peole to stop preaching the radical version of Islam or at least effectively minimize it's violent consequences, I think that is fucking awesome. I'm just not convinced starting a war in Iraq was the best way to go about it. I mean, it's a litttttle fishy that Iraq has so much oil...if we were so concerned about Syria/Jordan/Lebanon/Iran/ etc. why did we not attack them first? Afraid Sadaam would fire his chem./bio/nuclear weapons? Oh wait, where are those? I only bring the WMD point up because it was the original reason for war--not spreading democracy.

Anyways, I'm beginning to digress as my brain gets more ideas, so I'll stop here.

Main pont: reform good, war bad.

p.s. very open-minded, willing to discuss :D

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We are the resistance, our last line of defense. We are bred to fight for our promised land. Rebels at heart, they will hunt us till the ends of the earth. The chase is on--forever going on and on.
 
you're smart. point taken

Where did you get your clothes, the toilet store?

D-Railed Productions

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no he's not, it's a story based on lies. and by lies i mean i dont feel like reading

Anyway, a gas station we pass. We got gas, and ran off to get grub.It was a nice little pub in the middle on nowhere. Anywhere woulda been better. I ordered enchiladas and I ate 'em, Ali had the fruit punch.

 
i disagree.....if we arent the ones to be spreading democracy, then who is?

our government was the biggest government experiment ever conducted.....you cant deny that nobody before us had done anything close to what this country has accomplished in expanding personal liberties while maintaining adequate protection.

sure, ill be the first to admit that our government can seem corrupt and supposedly "not represent the people", but i also think that our government is run pretty damn efficiently for what we've allowed it to become (not financially efficient, but legislatively efficient).

I'm sure this wont make a lot of sense to most people, but the biggest problem with our government is it is too political. Politics have ruined the original idea of representative democracy, and we as a country have allowed them to do so. remember- government is running the country, politics is manipulating the country. I think the term "political science" is bullshit- i think politics is a business, and government is a science. and in science, we learn from past mistakes and we experiment.

Is there any way to get rid of politics in this country? Yes- we could have a completely direct form of democracy where absolutely everything that we do is voted on by every single person in the nation. But i think that people will agree with me that that isnt a very efficient way of going about things. i disagree with what you said about the US not being the ones that should spread democracy because i think that we are the only ones that realize what it is capable of and what it can become if it is allowed to get out of control. If we are going to spread democracy then we damn well better learn from our mistakes and do some things a little differently in other nations. We are the ones that should be spreading democracy, but we're also the ones that should be changing it.

_______________________________________

Incubus- An evil spirit supposed to descend upon and have sexual intercourse with women as they sleep.
 
Well here's my whole take on this deal:

George W. Bush is the 43rd President of the United States. He was sworn into office on January 20, 2001, re-elected on November 2, 2004, and sworn in for a second term on January 20, 2005. Prior to his Presidency, President Bush served for 6 years as the 46th Governor of the State of Texas, where he earned a reputation for bipartisanship and as a compassionate conservative who shaped public policy based on the principles of limited government, personal responsibility, strong families, and local control.

President Bush was born on July 6, 1946, in New Haven, Connecticut, and grew up in Midland and Houston, Texas. He received a bachelor’s degree in history from Yale University in 1968, and then served as an F-102 fighter pilot in the Texas Air National Guard. President Bush received a Master of Business Administration from Harvard Business School in 1975. Following graduation, he moved back to Midland and began a career in the energy business. After working on his father’s successful 1988 Presidential campaign, President Bush assembled the group of partners who purchased the Texas Rangers baseball franchise in 1989. On November 8, 1994, President Bush was elected Governor of Texas. He became the first Governor in Texas history to be elected to consecutive 4-year terms when he was re-elected on November 3, 1998.

I found this at a random site, Enjoy.Since becoming President of the United States in 2001, President Bush has worked with the Congress to create an ownership society and build a future of security, prosperity, and opportunity for all Americans. He signed into law tax relief that helps workers keep more of their hard-earned money, as well as the most comprehensive education reforms in a generation, the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001. This legislation is ushering in a new era of accountability, flexibility, local control, and more choices for parents, affirming our Nation’s fundamental belief in the promise of every child. President Bush has also worked to improve healthcare and modernize Medicare, providing the first-ever prescription drug benefit for seniors; increase homeownership, especially among minorities; conserve our environment; and increase military strength, pay, and benefits. Because President Bush believes the strength of America lies in the hearts and souls of our citizens, he has supported programs that encourage individuals to help their neighbors in need.

So yeah, what are your thoughts?

Anyway, a gas station we pass. We got gas, and ran off to get grub.It was a nice little pub in the middle on nowhere. Anywhere woulda been better. I ordered enchiladas and I ate 'em, Ali had the fruit punch.

 
I'm assuming you were responding to me, Weenox...

"If we are going to spread democracy then we damn well better learn from our mistakes and do some things a little differently in other nations. We are the ones that should be spreading democracy, but we're also the ones that should be changing it."

I agree with that. ^ Now...

although I said it that way, my point was more along the lines of we shouldn't be such pompous assholes bragging about how great our democracy is as we march across borders and alienate nations because we have problems (serious fucking problems, as you know). Yes, we're a version of democracy that didn't fall on its face (I'm avoiding the word "succeeded" because the current stagnation of our government and citizens repulses me), but we've also become a bloated, dependent, and wasteful nation both within the general population and within the government. That doesn't mean we suck, just that we shouldn't present this attitude of supremecy. In the end, all our communication with the rest of the world is pretty basic. Our government and media sends a pretty loud message...Team America, yes yes?

We shouldn't be so bold to invade countries with our big American mouths touting democracy. Perhaps, we should show reform on OUR soil and encourage these behaviors in other countries, while flexing our muscles, not actually lifting, to use a neanderthalistic weight room analogy, haha.

I understand and like your comments about there being too much politics in government and the comment about political science was clever. Nice :D

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We are the resistance, our last line of defense. We are bred to fight for our promised land. Rebels at heart, they will hunt us till the ends of the earth. The chase is on--forever going on and on.
 
this is by far the most intelligent thread on NS ive ever seen lets keep it this way.

People hate on Bush because its popular and easy, but he's done a great job. Bringing democracy to the middle east was a challenge and he's come closer than anyone else to accomplishing that goal.

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Peace

CJ

 
FDR was the best and most beneficial president ever. so the title of this thread is hecka wrong

-Killa Cam
 
you know the thing about fishing... you need good bait.

Mercy's eyes are blue

When she places them in front of you

Nothing holds a roman candle to

The solemn warmth you feel inside

 
I fucking love people who call Bush a 'moron' or an 'idiot'. Those Liberals are the dipshits who allowed Bush to win. When you can Bush a moron, you imply that he is intending to do the right thing. He is intending to build democracy in Iraq. He is intending to be a nice guy, but gosh darn it, he is just too stupid! Wrong, if you don't like Bush then you have to realize that his intent is malicious and sinister, not that he is just a good guy who fucks up. Maybe then you'd form a better platform on which to attack his party.

 
bump

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We are the resistance, our last line of defense. We are bred to fight for our promised land. Rebels at heart, they will hunt us till the ends of the earth. The chase is on--forever going on and on.

Of all the things to care about, why would I give a fuck about a TV show? That's right--I wouldn't and don't.
 
when the US doesnt exist anymore, tell me that Bush was the greatest president of all time.

I'll nosepress your funbox if you lipslide my handrail
 
i completely agree that our population is ridiculously wasteful and ungodly egotistic about our government. However, i dont think there are many different ways a democracy could work efficiently. I also dont think we are pressuring our form of democracy on nations- i really think (and maybe im wrong in saying this) we are just trying to spread any kind of democracy we can. I dont think you can argue that there is a more just and ba, lanced form of government than democracyand with that justice and balance comes bloated ego's and unappreciative people. When people are given freedom, they are going to take advantage of it. fortunately for us, we have alot more freedom than pretty much everybody in the world, which results in our unmatched feelings of supremecy and power.

like i said, i dont think there is a way to fix our government without changing to a completely direct form of government. obviously this would be absolute chaos and our government would never get anything done.

_______________________________________

Incubus- An evil spirit supposed to descend upon and have sexual intercourse with women as they sleep.
 
Should be interesting to see if the thread takes off now that our resident trolls have chimed in.

Weenox: chaos may ensue, but I think that is to be expected. Any change in respect to government is difficult, even more so with direct representation.

My caffeine high is wearing off, so I'm gong to stop before I ramble about nothing in particular.

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We are the resistance, our last line of defense. We are bred to fight for our promised land. Rebels at heart, they will hunt us till the ends of the earth. The chase is on--forever going on and on.

Of all the things to care about, why would I give a fuck about a TV show? That's right--I wouldn't and don't.
 
So bach your end point is war is bad reform is good. Would you like to tell us how to reform a dictator ship run by a warlord while being civil. Since talking with them isn't an option, well there goes that. Or you could just do talk to them, but nope they'll just kill you and drag your body through the streets.

Your really smart and have a huge vocab, which is really impressive, but when was the last time you had a rag head empty a magazine from his AK past your head? Yeah you'd shit yourself. Its not like we are pushing war, our troops aren't allowed to fire unless fired upon anyways. But have you researched what was really happening over there? I doubt it, it was extremely similar to what the Nazi's were doing to the Jews.

But thats ok I mean I guess that Bush could have stopped hurricane Katrina too, I mean he could have just stood there in front of the storm and stopped it? As far as the war goes though I have a lot of friends that are never gunna be the same because of it, and I'd love to see you tell them the war is pointless to their face. And hell while I'm at it, if you lived in Iraq they would ahve killed you for saying what you just did. Hmm

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your steeze is like the antithesis of the gangsta-tanner-gorillasteeze junk... the type of skiing that says "Fuck groomed parks and rails, rip big mountain lines and throw backflips off everything-J.D. May
 
does whats right for you no matter what it cost everyone else in the world, thats your problem fuckin douche.

----------

Eternal Nothingness is Okay if Your Dressed For It

 
Im tired of having to argue about stupid things like these...even if some one concocts the ultimate argument, all based on facts and backed up with sources and proof some fuckface is going to say "I love my president, he's the greatest man in the world and deserves the nobel peace prize" Fuck this, America and the American lifestyle of big stores, huge parkinglots and arterial roads, strip malls, gas guzzling SUVs and suburban labyrinths can't sustain itself and will have to change or die. A major reason for war in the middle east is oil whether you will admit it or just ridicule it. We've found just about all the oil we ever will. It's a concept called peak oil, whereby the amount of available oil is now declining, and subsequently oil prices are rising as the remaining oil is slowly being depleated. George Bush is no Jesus Christ. Stop worshipping him. He came out arguing that there were weapons of mass destruction and when this got poked full of holes he changed his stand to one of liberation. It's like testing out a lie getting caught and then trying another lie. At this point we need a strong leader to make the changes necessary to establish strong renewable energy sources, not be short sighted. Oil will be depleated within 50 years, then what?

________________________________________

"Sure thing squirl. just cut me down and PROMISE you wont burry me!"

 
It sounds like you're pretty upset about my post. I hope you'll be open minded about reading my response..

Your first question: "Would you like to tell us how to reform a dictator ship run by a warlord while being civil?"

I would have favored an approach to this issue that would push for reform in other Arab countries such as Syria, Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon. Hopefully, with progress on these fronts, we could have isolated Sadaam Hussein and his regime. Of course, why would we push for democracy or war in those countries--they have nothing we're after and no well-known leader to point the finger at.

Also: you can refer back to my first response to Weenox about how setting an example for other nations could help us promote our democratic objective.

Your second question/topic: "When was the last time you had a rag head empty a magazine from his AK past your head?"

Never. I don't belong to any branch of the military. Aside from mountain parties with our heavily armed local hicks, AK-47s aren't too common a sight here.

When was the last time you had an AK magazine discharged and aimed at you?

Your third issue/point(error): "Its not like we are pushing war"

Well, that's curious. I remember us pre-emptively and independently (the "coalition of the willing" is a bunch of bullshit) invading a sovreign nation on grounds of weapons violations, claims which have since proven to be unsubstantiated.

If that's not "pushing war" I don't know what is.

Your fourth point: "it was extremely similar to what the Nazi's were doing to the Jews."

Saddam Hussein attacked innocent civilians (Kurds), yes, and it was terrible, immoral, and flat out wrong. Comparing 100,000 to 8 million is a bit of a stetch, though no less terrible. Comparing Saddam's noninvasion to the invasion of multiple European nations by Hitler is even more of a stretch. You'd be wise not to use the Hitler reference--it erases your credbility.

Your fifth point: "But thats ok I mean I guess that Bush could have stopped hurricane Katrina too, I mean he could have just stood there in front of the storm and stopped it?"

Seriously man what the fuck are you talking about? I never blamed Bush for hurricane Katrina and I never mentioned hurricane Katrina in this thread. Anyone blaming a human for the weather is a moron and I think we'll both agree with that.

Your sixth point: "As far as the war goes though I have a lot of friends that are never gunna be the same because of it, and I'd love to see you tell them the war is pointless to their face. And hell while I'm at it, if you lived in Iraq they would ahve killed you for saying what you just did. Hmm"

I don't remember saying the war in Iraq was pointless. That would be stupid. Of course the war in Iraq has a point--whether or not our invasion was justified or presented to us in an honest fashion is more than questionable though.

I'm sorry your friends are scarred. I really am. War is a terrible thing. But just think--your friends might have never gone to war had we pressured Saddam Hussein into self-collapse through diplomacy and sanctions.

I've had friends nearly killed there too. They all tell me they are fighting a lost cause. So I guess our military friends can disagree on that. Personally, I'd rather have my friends around then fighting an unjust war in the name of "democracy."

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::::

We are the resistance, our last line of defense. We are bred to fight for our promised land. Rebels at heart, they will hunt us till the ends of the earth. The chase is on--forever going on and on.

Of all the things to care about, why would I give a fuck about a TV show? That's right--I wouldn't and don't.
 
I so agree we are not the ones to be spreading democracy. Don't you understand the philosophy of Democracy is to NOT opress ideas onto the public of your nation or any other nation. I agree msotly with J bach when he makes his points. The people responding to this thread with really stupid answers need to stop psoting in these political threads

I disagree with your point of trying to pressure Sadaam into giving up his position of dictator.

If i understood this right this would have never happened. Why would someone who has total control and fear of a country give it up? He wouldn't have given it up without fighting. He would have fed the Iraqi civilians propoganda right down their throat just like we did in WW1 and WW2 and every other war. You guys need to realise we believe a lot of propoganda everyday and we don't even know it. Basically what im saying is there is never a right or wrong thing in these situations its a lose-lose situation either way you're going to upset someone

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No risk, No reward

i am a demublicandepentantomunist

 
"I disagree with your point of trying to pressure Sadaam into giving up his position of dictator.

If i understood this right this would have never happened. Why would someone who has total control and fear of a country give it up?"

I see where you're going and that's a good point. I don't think I was clear enough. A plan of diplomacy, sanctions, and espionage would make others around him (his Arab "allies") succomb to our desires first. After isolating him a position where he has no one on his side buy his minority party in Iraq, he would either succomb to the pressure, or maybe his people would feel secure enough to revolt, or maybe then if, as a last resort, with evidence clearly outlined and proven, we may take military action. By that point, the UN and everyone in the geographic region would be so fed up with his stubborn bullshit that he wouldn't give up his power, we'd essentially take it from him by manipulating the pawns in place, rather than coming in with our queens and bishops and bashing him over the head with brute force. It's more covert strategy for achieving the same mission.

I agree with you. He wouldn't just give up his power. My point is that we should have forced him out of power through means other than war. It may have been impossible, but I would have liked to see us try a different approach than invasion. Weapons inspections weren't a solution either because they merely focused on one factor of the bigger problem.

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::::

We are the resistance, our last line of defense. We are bred to fight for our promised land. Rebels at heart, they will hunt us till the ends of the earth. The chase is on--forever going on and on.

Of all the things to care about, why would I give a fuck about a TV show? That's right--I wouldn't and don't.
 
i totally agree...somehow im sure the people would have revolted...but then again as i said propoganda can really have an effect on the uneducated...which by the way the Iraqi literacy rate is around 42%

its not a pointless war more or less then a pointless tactic

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No risk, No reward

i am a demublicandepentantomunist

 
Only 42%? Wow, I wasn't aware of that.

However, propaganda works on the literate and illiterate alike, as you well know. It just depends on what rhetorical strategy is used to persuade an individual or group.

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We are the resistance, our last line of defense. We are bred to fight for our promised land. Rebels at heart, they will hunt us till the ends of the earth. The chase is on--forever going on and on.

Of all the things to care about, why would I give a fuck about a TV show? That's right--I wouldn't and don't.
 
U forgot about enron and all that other crap.

also it should have been an illegal war to invade iraq for OIL. All they think about is OIL and they are screwing the rest of the world over. War isn't the solution to everything. Bitch

 
He also forgot to mention that he plagerized the entire thing.

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We are the resistance, our last line of defense. We are bred to fight for our promised land. Rebels at heart, they will hunt us till the ends of the earth. The chase is on--forever going on and on.

Of all the things to care about, why would I give a fuck about a TV show? That's right--I wouldn't and don't.
 
im not going to get into this but greatest of all time come on, JFK, Roosevelt, Abraham lincoln, geaorge mothafuckin washington. shit even bill clinton. bush is no where near the top buddy.

 
Per my claim that Twix_182 forgot to mention he didn't write any of that.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/gwbbio.html

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We are the resistance, our last line of defense. We are bred to fight for our promised land. Rebels at heart, they will hunt us till the ends of the earth. The chase is on--forever going on and on.

Of all the things to care about, why would I give a fuck about a TV show? That's right--I wouldn't and don't.
 
dude, bob denver died, did you hear about that... no more gilligan.*tear*

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-"do you know how I know your gay? Because you have a rainbow bumper sticker that says "I like balls on my face"-40 year old virgin

-"Hitler was a smart man. He came up with more ways to cook a Jew than George Foreman did to cook a piece of meat.'-Skiierman
 
bull, lets hear an example.

-kulpy-

gangsta raps lyrics are all the same, Someone gets shot, someones frontin, someones a wangsta, someones benchpressin, someones makin fried chicken, and the beans dont burn on the grill. You can see that shit in kentucky. Fuck the bronx, deep south bitches-scientist
 
ill cut in here for a second,

um yo i agree with most of the last post but would like to throw in that the Us gave him 1,000,000,000$ american. and then we have the audacity to take away his power.

anywho why democracy? why dont we implement a fucking communist goverment, i think its pretty clear that the chinese are an up and coming population and will soon be a rival influence to the US and their goverment is in actually flawed but still extremely functional

also i think that someone pointed out quite truly that oil is going down what the world needs now is Safe reliable energy sources (wind, water etc.) and instead of spending a couple bil on an army why not invest some of that to expand your energy network, or give it to fucking poor people in the streets i dont give a shit

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am Sum Ting Wong praise me- Sum Ting Wong july 5th 2004 CANADA KICKS ASSS

Teehee: http://macintyre.newschoolers.com/mahna.h
tm
 
yes i know it works on the literate but i was just stating that mostly the uneducated are the ones that have a tendency to be easily read but who really knows

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No risk, No reward

i am a demublicandepentantomunist

 
ok first of all JFK was not such a great president neitehr was clinton or abe lincoln...little known fact: Abe lincoln HIMSELF owned slaves and his family did also

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No risk, No reward

i am a demublicandepentantomunist

 
i agree (except with the commie part) we should let the UN take care of democracy in the world and the US should cut the military bill and stay the fuck out of some of the regions. Cheap oil bastards should invest in nuclear fusion, wind or other alternatives.

 
^^ little know fact to people that know little of any history. How many upper-class people did own slaves at that time period? Oh yeah, about 100%

not a great president? Well then by your standards, nobody will ever be a great president.

 
Because we've spent trillions of dollars to defeat communism and a pure communist state has never succeeded (China has democratic and communist qualities).

Socialism on the other hand works great when your society doesn't focus on excess and is ok with paying taxes, which so many people in this country rightly dislike because our government spends the money paying me to build bigger and better bombs when instead they should be paying me to build bigger and better (and functional) fusion reactors.

Sorry, ranting...I'll go back to reading your guy's posts now, haha.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

::::

We are the resistance, our last line of defense. We are bred to fight for our promised land. Rebels at heart, they will hunt us till the ends of the earth. The chase is on--forever going on and on.

Of all the things to care about, why would I give a fuck about a TV show? That's right--I wouldn't and don't.
 
just because abe lincoln owned slaves doesnt mean he was a bad president. do you know how hard it had to have been to keep half a country together at a time like that. abe was the man. and clinton was a genious in his own right. and JFK not a good president are you fucking kidding. if he wasnt killed it would be a different world today

 
nick skier i know nothing about history? HA AH AH AH i laugh at you...now if you will think for a minute (i know its hard) the reason i made that statement about slaves is it completely contradicted his whole "slave" excuse for the war and can you tell me what he did that was so great? other then glorify a war that was basically handed to the northern states please do tell me since i know nothing about history

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No risk, No reward

i am a demublicandepentantomunist

 
haha, someone finally noticed. i even wrote "I found this at a random site, Enjoy" in the middle of it to see if people even actually read the whole thing. im quite the trickster

Anyway, a gas station we pass. We got gas, and ran off to get grub.It was a nice little pub in the middle on nowhere. Anywhere woulda been better. I ordered enchiladas and I ate 'em, Ali had the fruit punch.

 
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