Gear rumours 20/21

14066692:animator said:
According to sources I’m not allowed to name, Marker is completely redesigning the Duke to compete directly with the Shift. Given that the duke was beefy and had a 16din, I believe that is why they are making it so, and not a 13. Drops in 2 weeks so should be some exciting stuff!
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The duke and the alpinist had a baby.

looks more solid and simple than the shift plus the duke din range.

its money
 
14067332:BrawnTrends said:
How so?
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Less moving parts. Less room for errors. Stronger retention. Just looks more simple but in a practical way.

It’s literally the duke and alpinist combined. So 2 already seasoned bindings in 1.

It just appears to make sense

**This post was edited on Oct 17th 2019 at 6:37:04am
 
14067333:AusSkiMan said:
Less moving parts. Less room for errors. Stronger retention. Just looks more simple but in a practical way.

It’s literally the duke and alpinist combined. So 2 already seasoned bindings in 1.

It just appears to make sense

**This post was edited on Oct 17th 2019 at 6:37:04am
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Interesting. I haven't had the chance to see the bindings yet, so I'm excited for the release.

14067342:nolliebackflip said:
First chair
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Still the original design. I just prefer the looks of the Descendants. Shoot me, I guess?
 
14067383:B.Gillis said:
It’s money until your pins shear off or your wings snap mid run lol
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At least someone is being as cynical of the new marker product as they should be, they don’t exactly have the best track record.

I wonder if this binding will require a hammer to install the heel on the track, and require excessive forward pressure like they’re alpine bindings.
 
I didn’t mean to say its going to be a shit product, theres a good chance its actually a great product. I spent a portion of last year on the shift and was not super impressed, the king pin I thought was pretty good, as long as you didn’t get a faulty pair.

I’m interested to see what marker has come up with, it could be a great product. But it could also have faults like some of they’re other products.
 
14067444:TheWeaz said:
I didn’t mean to say its going to be a shit product, theres a good chance its actually a great product. I spent a portion of last year on the shift and was not super impressed, the king pin I thought was pretty good, as long as you didn’t get a faulty pair.

I’m interested to see what marker has come up with, it could be a great product. But it could also have faults like some of they’re other products.
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Interesting to read that some people weren’t super impressed with the shift. I work at a ski shop and we sell the shift more than any alpine or AT binding. Not belittling your opinions at all by the way. I think the Shift definitely has its kinks as all bindings do, but it’s a pretty impressive piece of engineering in my opinion
 
14067464:animator said:
Interesting to read that some people weren’t super impressed with the shift. I work at a ski shop and we sell the shift more than any alpine or AT binding. Not belittling your opinions at all by the way. I think the Shift definitely has its kinks as all bindings do, but it’s a pretty impressive piece of engineering in my opinion
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Impressive engineering I would agree with.

but no one I know who skis pretty hard could stay in them, even after switching to only using them for touring and very soft snow. The heel basically has no elasticity and ejects you out at any chance it gets. One friend had some durability issues with the toe and afd, he tried to warranty his at the end of last season and hasn’t heard anything back. Last year at the shop I worked at we warrantied a couple peoples brakes that kept falling off while touring.

mine never broke, I just couldn’t stay in the heel, even running +2 din compared to the pivots I have on other skis. I’m sure they work well for some people but not for me and my friends.
 
14067522:TheWeaz said:
Impressive engineering I would agree with.

but no one I know who skis pretty hard could stay in them, even after switching to only using them for touring and very soft snow. The heel basically has no elasticity and ejects you out at any chance it gets. One friend had some durability issues with the toe and afd, he tried to warranty his at the end of last season and hasn’t heard anything back. Last year at the shop I worked at we warrantied a couple peoples brakes that kept falling off while touring.

mine never broke, I just couldn’t stay in the heel, even running +2 din compared to the pivots I have on other skis. I’m sure they work well for some people but not for me and my friends.
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We sold 350 pairs last season and maybe had 5 people complaining about them. I skied them a little too and really had no issues. I know some of the team did have little issues but for most people I think they work really well. But having said that I’m very interested in the new marker.
 
14067581:tomPietrowski said:
We sold 350 pairs last season and maybe had 5 people complaining about them. I skied them a little too and really had no issues. I know some of the team did have little issues but for most people I think they work really well. But having said that I’m very interested in the new marker.
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Thats great, and I’m not trying to turn this thread into arguing about the merits of the shift. I was simply reporting my friend group’s problems with them, maybe me and all my friends suck at skiing, maybe all the people you sold them to do. Out of maybe 8 people who owned them and skied on them last year, 7 of them sold them within the first couple months of the season and the one remaining is waiting on warranty parts and his are currently not usable.
 
14067581:tomPietrowski said:
We sold 350 pairs last season and maybe had 5 people complaining about them. I skied them a little too and really had no issues. I know some of the team did have little issues but for most people I think they work really well. But having said that I’m very interested in the new marker.
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We sold probably 70-80 and we saw a few come back, we always diagnosed the problem was people were trying to set them up themselves which with this binding is a recipe for disaster.

i have done quite a few days on them now and have had zero issues and I’m 100kgs and ski pretty solid.

morale of the story is, get them set up properly, forward pressure, afd and they are very solid
 
14067601:AusSkiMan said:
morale of the story is, get them set up properly, forward pressure, afd and they are very solid
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Not completely true. I agree more with weezy. I work in a shop sold a shit ton of shifts... for the average skier 0 problems everyone happy. Strong skiers have problems with pre release. And doing tricks in them scary as hell.

I had kingpins last season after a few release issues I've sold them they terrify me. Invested in casts this season. Have a feeling its the only choice for solid skiers at the moment... and not much more than a king pin when you add the pivot and cast
 
14067601:AusSkiMan said:
We sold probably 70-80 and we saw a few come back, we always diagnosed the problem was people were trying to set them up themselves which with this binding is a recipe for disaster.

i have done quite a few days on them now and have had zero issues and I’m 100kgs and ski pretty solid.

morale of the story is, get them set up properly, forward pressure, afd and they are very solid
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I mean I am a “certified” solly technician, took the online test for my shop and everything. I had the solly rep very specifically show me how to set up the shift when he came in for the yearly demo. I agree the afd and forward pressure are fiddly and lead to some of the problems but I checked all the adjustments multiple times after friends and co workers had failures and tested them all on the machine, they tested perfectly everytime.
 
14067604:-SnowSnoli- said:
Not completely true. I agree more with weezy. I work in a shop sold a shit ton of shifts... for the average skier 0 problems everyone happy. Strong skiers have problems with pre release. And doing tricks in them scary as hell.

I had kingpins last season after a few release issues I've sold them they terrify me. Invested in casts this season. Have a feeling its the only choice for solid skiers at the moment... and not much more than a king pin when you add the pivot and cast
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I mean if Cody Townsend is riding them they are probably more then enough for most people haha. I rode them in the park a couple of days and they were fine. But yeah maybe some people just are riding too hard for them hence why the marker could be a good fit for those people.
 
14067631:tomPietrowski said:
I mean if Cody Townsend is riding them they are probably more then enough for most people haha. I rode them in the park a couple of days and they were fine. But yeah maybe some people just are riding too hard for them hence why the marker could be a good fit for those people.
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Cody, Benchetler, etc. And even LSM was seen on the Shift. Also, for what it's worth, I've used them extensively all last year (December to May) and had zero issue.
 
The N on shift issues is so small because so few of the sold models were ever actually transitioned to touring. What's the ratio of shift owners to shift owners with skins for their shifted skis? Maybe 10:1? 15:1?

Plenty of pretty well documented issues with the shift binding from toe wings braking while skiing, people walking out while touring, or jbooting out while skiing due to a loose toe connection.

Saying a couple ripping pro skiers have been successful on them is a bitch-ass argument made by the same bitch ass people who like to appear to be in the know and give product 'leaks' along the lines of: "Brand X working on some sick shit I just saw, ya'll gonna be stoked when it drops." 1 month later when it comes out: Just new graphics or they changed the waist width by two mm.
 
Salomon Shift issues ...
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According to the "RELEASE VALUE SELECTION AND ADJUSTMENT" section in the Salomon Technical Manual for my weight (75kg) and BSL I have to crank the binding to 10. However, if the weight of the skier is above 95kg, he can easily be outside of the DIN range for Salomon Shift especially if the BSL is shorter.

P.S. Last winter I started at 8.5din and had occasional pre-releases. The cranked to 9 and still had several rare situations where the release was questionable. After I cranked the DIN to 10 (as it should according be to the table) I had zero issues.

**This post was edited on Oct 23rd 2019 at 11:37:28am
 
14069149:cobra_commander said:
The N on shift issues is so small because so few of the sold models were ever actually transitioned to touring. What's the ratio of shift owners to shift owners with skins for their shifted skis? Maybe 10:1? 15:1?

Plenty of pretty well documented issues with the shift binding from toe wings braking while skiing, people walking out while touring, or jbooting out while skiing due to a loose toe connection.

Saying a couple ripping pro skiers have been successful on them is a bitch-ass argument made by the same bitch ass people who like to appear to be in the know and give product 'leaks' along the lines of: "Brand X working on some sick shit I just saw, ya'll gonna be stoked when it drops." 1 month later when it comes out: Just new graphics or they changed the waist width by two mm.
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Not sure that argument holds up with shifts. It did when the duke dropped years ago but sales of skins went up with shifts at least around bc. People where introduced to touring a while ago so the shift opened up even more people too it.

And sorry first hand knowledge of what better skiers then most people on this site use is not useful to you. Guess you are the best skier on the mountain :)
 
To be fair if amer sports was paying my yearly salary I’d stop talking shit on the new product also and live with it. It’s obviously not unskiable, I just think some people had higher expectations of how the shift was supposed to perform and were let down.

but if you objectively look at it it works pretty well, theres not that many major failures reported and they sold a shit ton of them, I know our shop sold out twice last year after a re order was needed. No idea how its going this year since I left, but they sold probably 100 pairs last year and only had issues from a few of the more aggressive skiers around jackson.
 
Pro skier’s use what they are paid to use and speak positively about products they are paid to speak positively about. The number of pro skiers curb stomping into marker jesters should be a good indicator of that. It’s a paid endorsement, and that’s worth acknowledging. Very few pro skiers who are busy trying to line up budgets for the next year are gonna say a product sucks.

The shift is a good binding but not without its issues.

I stand and by the skin comment.
 
14069326:cobra_commander said:
Pro skier’s use what they are paid to use and speak positively about products they are paid to speak positively about. The number of pro skiers curb stomping into marker jesters should be a good indicator of that. It’s a paid endorsement, and that’s worth acknowledging. Very few pro skiers who are busy trying to line up budgets for the next year are gonna say a product sucks.

The shift is a good binding but not without its issues.

I stand and by the skin comment.
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True what they say in public is one thing and what they say in private can be different. But for the most part I can attest to the fact that most have a pretty similar opinion.

Anyway always good to have debate over products in my opinion.
 
14069326:cobra_commander said:
Pro skier’s use what they are paid to use and speak positively about products they are paid to speak positively about. The number of pro skiers curb stomping into marker jesters should be a good indicator of that. It’s a paid endorsement, and that’s worth acknowledging. Very few pro skiers who are busy trying to line up budgets for the next year are gonna say a product sucks.

The shift is a good binding but not without its issues.

I stand and by the skin comment.
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This is very well said, and I agree that that when athletes are paid by a company to endorse a product, they’re going to say good things about it.

That being said, the Shift is a great binding and like all innovative products that enter the market, it has its issues which I’m sure Amer will resolve in the coming seasons
 
That being said, the Shift is a great binding and like all innovative products that enter the market, it has its issues which I’m sure Amer will resolve in the coming seasons[/quote]

I think someone said this about Kingpins and Marker two years ago.
 
14069326:cobra_commander said:
The number of pro skiers curb stomping into marker jesters should be a good indicator of that.
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i don't think you know what curb stomping is..?

but yes agreed on markers lol
 
14069688:RudyGarmisch said:
That being said, the Shift is a great binding and like all innovative products that enter the market, it has its issues which I’m sure Amer will resolve in the coming seasons

I think someone said this about Kingpins and Marker two years ago.
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Well they kinda changed it, you just have to pay more and get the m werks kingpin that as far as I know they haven’t had pins issues with.
 
100 bucks more for a more fragile binding..

The biggest downside to marker pin bindings is they always have issues if you have an alpine sole. It's like they don't engage correctly

14069723:TheWeaz said:
Well they kinda changed it, you just have to pay more and get the m werks kingpin that as far as I know they haven’t had pins issues with.
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14069725:-SnowSnoli- said:
100 bucks more for a more fragile binding..

The biggest downside to marker pin bindings is they always have issues if you have an alpine sole. It's like they don't engage correctly
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Arguably more fragile, just because theres carbon on them doesn’t mean they’re weaker. show me examples of the m werks failing, I haven’t seen any yet but they’ve also been available for much less time.

also you boot sole doesn’t affect how the pins interact with the tech fittings, it might be harder to step in with an alpine sole boot with tech fittings, but once your in it behaves exactly the same. Could be an issue with your boot manufacturers tech fittings and not the alpine sole.
 
Interested to see weight and how the toe and brake holder functions.

On another note what ski is that? Next years 121? New ski from volkl? Return of the shiro? Looks like a similar tail shape to the shiro, maybe a revolt 110 or something similar.
 
14070943:animator said:
Where was this posted?
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Markers Instagram story

14070944:TheWeaz said:
Interested to see weight and how the toe and brake holder functions.

On another note what ski is that? Next years 121? New ski from volkl? Return of the shiro? Looks like a similar tail shape to the shiro, maybe a revolt 110 or something similar.
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I’m thinking that’s one of the new revolt designs. It’s either 110 or 112.
 
14070998:animator said:
Just saw on their Instagram that it’s not even going to be available until next season
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That seems foolish, to release marketing info on it, then not make it commercially available. Wait a year for the duke/ reset... or have a shift now...
 
14071266:skidemon22 said:
That seems foolish, to release marketing info on it, then not make it commercially available. Wait a year for the duke/ reset... or have a shift now...
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Didn’t the Shift get unveiled in December 2017? And went on sale for 18/19? It worked pretty well for them.
 
14071266:skidemon22 said:
That seems foolish, to release marketing info on it, then not make it commercially available. Wait a year for the duke/ reset... or have a shift now...
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Not really. Market knows they took a hit with the Shift coupled with KingPin issues. Duke/Baron sales are almost non existent, and King Pin sales have fallen. Their retailers might loose a few Duke/King Pin sales with this, but most people looking at this binding wouldn’t be looking at a King Pin anyway but rather a Shift. They’re taking a page out of Amer’s book (and their own with super limited KingPin release in 14/15). Amer’s announcement really took a chunk out of KingPin Sales in 17/18.

14071309:-eREKTion- said:
Didn’t the Shift get unveiled in December 2017? And went on sale for 18/19? It worked pretty well for them.
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14071309:-eREKTion- said:
Didn’t the Shift get unveiled in December 2017? And went on sale for 18/19? It worked pretty well for them.
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It was Jan. 18, but point taken.

Just seems early for a consumer-facing marketing release compared to the shift's industry/ B2B release followed by a consumer push.
 
14071309:-eREKTion- said:
Didn’t the Shift get unveiled in December 2017? And went on sale for 18/19? It worked pretty well for them.
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Big difference, in my opinion, is that the Shift was the "first" in its genre. Nothing like it existed, and they had time for the big announcement, etc, because there wasn't any direct competitor in that market yet.
 
With such an early release but delayed availability they have time to get the bindings into reviewers hands and since the binding info is released they can be skied at resorts and have pictures taken of them without having to be used in secrecy.

Also there should be full reviews from people with almost a whole season on them before the public can get them, hopefully that means any issues found will be well known and possibly fixed.
 
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