FUCK TRUTH
- Thread starter lilgreen
- Start date
^^Once again, please get it through your skull that thir campaign is not aimed at you or any other smoker, but at the COMPANY. Also, I'll point out that someone earlier in this thread said they'd quit largely because of what they'd seen in those and similar ads. Here's a question: why does it annoy you if they're saying things you knew all about? Why are you so against them? It seems to me, from what you've said, that you shouldn't care. If it's true that everybody knows this stuff, they aren't hurting anything; if it isn't true, then they might be helping, and that makes it worth doing.
If they could find 12 people who had never heard of Rodney King, I'll bet they can find more than a few who don't know smoking is harmful, and a few more who only havea vague idea.
If they could find 12 people who had never heard of Rodney King, I'll bet they can find more than a few who don't know smoking is harmful, and a few more who only havea vague idea.
bigJ
Active member
There is nothing wrong with big tobacco or what they are doing. They are capitalist to the highest degree and they are just making money. Also, they help the economy substantially because addiction does not go away with a recesion. With the target market of the kids that is all past. The time of Maraburo Man and Joe Camel are over. Kids start smoking because, in some cases, they think it is cool because they see older kids doing it... a vicious cycle. Truth can not dethrone big tobacco and they are not even putting a dent in it. It remains one of the strongest industries in existance followed by pharmisutiacals (sp).
Drivin that Train
Drivin that Train
Freezy, this is all I have to say on the subject, because it's not a topic I have any affectation for.
Several things, mostly small because you make a good point from the other end of the spectrum. I'll even cede a few of your points to you.
First, the pharmaceutical companies may be making a few bucks off Nicorette, but last time I checked, nicotine supplements don't kill people by the thousands.
Secondly, I fail to see how smokers are being persecuted by ads that tell them things that according you, they already know.
Thirdly, I'm sorry, but if you're entire purpose as a corporation is to make money off of a product that has no direct practical upshot besides the thinning out of the population, no quotation marks are needed around the word evil. That's a pretty good example of evil. Don't say it helps the economy, or it creates jobs; you can't devalue life that way and claim to be moral. Those jobs are only there so long as people keep dying. Tobacco companies are evil. They facilitate the deaths of others for their own gain.
Fourthly, ''They aren't lying as far as I can see''. Tobacco spokespeople have repeatedly said that smoking isn't harmful. I don't think even you can reasonably believe they're honest, so I'm not even going to argue that point.
Next, your assertion that all anti-tobacco lobbyists are in it for the dough. I've known at least a dozen members of the anti tobacco lobby, and EVERY SINGLE ONE was dedicated to reducing the death count. About half of them were former or current smokers, and none of them were making big bucks by doing what they were. I can be a cynic myself sometimes, but this is ridiculous.
An addition: even if they were in it for the money, I'd rather they made the money than corporations whose products cause death.
''Let people make their choices and suffer or enjoy the consequences as they see fit.
It's called America, and freedom.''
People make mistakes. If I crash my car, I don't expect the doctor to tell me to live with it because I didn't check my mirrors. Maybe I'm optimistic, but I'd like to think that there's some good left in society, that somewhere the concept of helping others deal with their problems survives. You don't appear to think so, and you're entitled to that. But it my opinion, that kind of a viewpoint is a cold and horrible way of looking at the world. If that's what America is, then the nation is in dire straits.
Finally, please do not talk down to me. I'm not ''polluted'' with any propaganda. You're right, a lot of people don't need to see commercials to know that smoking is harmful. And you do need to see all sides. I have. I watched my grandmother die of cancer, and my father continue smoking even though he hardly has lungs left to use. I'd like to think I do have some hope left, because I see the moral problem with the entire idea behind the tobacco industry. They make money by killing people. Once we lose sight of that, by getting distracted by fiscal issues, or by becoming defensive when confronted by the truth, then we're beyond hope.
Several things, mostly small because you make a good point from the other end of the spectrum. I'll even cede a few of your points to you.
First, the pharmaceutical companies may be making a few bucks off Nicorette, but last time I checked, nicotine supplements don't kill people by the thousands.
Secondly, I fail to see how smokers are being persecuted by ads that tell them things that according you, they already know.
Thirdly, I'm sorry, but if you're entire purpose as a corporation is to make money off of a product that has no direct practical upshot besides the thinning out of the population, no quotation marks are needed around the word evil. That's a pretty good example of evil. Don't say it helps the economy, or it creates jobs; you can't devalue life that way and claim to be moral. Those jobs are only there so long as people keep dying. Tobacco companies are evil. They facilitate the deaths of others for their own gain.
Fourthly, ''They aren't lying as far as I can see''. Tobacco spokespeople have repeatedly said that smoking isn't harmful. I don't think even you can reasonably believe they're honest, so I'm not even going to argue that point.
Next, your assertion that all anti-tobacco lobbyists are in it for the dough. I've known at least a dozen members of the anti tobacco lobby, and EVERY SINGLE ONE was dedicated to reducing the death count. About half of them were former or current smokers, and none of them were making big bucks by doing what they were. I can be a cynic myself sometimes, but this is ridiculous.
An addition: even if they were in it for the money, I'd rather they made the money than corporations whose products cause death.
''Let people make their choices and suffer or enjoy the consequences as they see fit.
It's called America, and freedom.''
People make mistakes. If I crash my car, I don't expect the doctor to tell me to live with it because I didn't check my mirrors. Maybe I'm optimistic, but I'd like to think that there's some good left in society, that somewhere the concept of helping others deal with their problems survives. You don't appear to think so, and you're entitled to that. But it my opinion, that kind of a viewpoint is a cold and horrible way of looking at the world. If that's what America is, then the nation is in dire straits.
Finally, please do not talk down to me. I'm not ''polluted'' with any propaganda. You're right, a lot of people don't need to see commercials to know that smoking is harmful. And you do need to see all sides. I have. I watched my grandmother die of cancer, and my father continue smoking even though he hardly has lungs left to use. I'd like to think I do have some hope left, because I see the moral problem with the entire idea behind the tobacco industry. They make money by killing people. Once we lose sight of that, by getting distracted by fiscal issues, or by becoming defensive when confronted by the truth, then we're beyond hope.
Geekypunkboy
Member
What Freezy said about this being America and ahving the freedom to smoke; that's a moot point in a discussion like this. The Truth does not stop people from smoking. People can still make that decision themselves. It is just informing people of the harmfulness of smoking. And yes, I know, we all realize that smoking is bad and will kill you. But this is just explaining why in more detail. It is making the dangers of smoking more clear, which, more likely then convincing someone to stop, will convince someone not to ever try.
But people still have to freedom to live their lives the way they want. These ads do nothing but teach people and try to persuade. They do not force you not to smoke. It is still all your choice, so don't go accusing The Truth of taking away the freedom of choice, because that is complete bullshit.
--------------------
'The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.'
-Goering
'Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.'
-Douglas Adams
P.S. this is what the alphabet would look like if Q and R were removed.
But people still have to freedom to live their lives the way they want. These ads do nothing but teach people and try to persuade. They do not force you not to smoke. It is still all your choice, so don't go accusing The Truth of taking away the freedom of choice, because that is complete bullshit.
--------------------
'The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.'
-Goering
'Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.'
-Douglas Adams
P.S. this is what the alphabet would look like if Q and R were removed.
Geekypunkboy
Member
'I, for one, refuse to stand idle as I watch the Constitution and my right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happniess be pushed to the wayside in favor or twisted social engineering.
It's America. It's a choice. You made it, you deal with it. '
This just plain pisses me off. I'm not going to get super patriotic, because that is not me. But this has nothing to do with our constitution. Your rights are not being touched. They are just as protected as ever (aside from the Patriot Act, but thats a different issue). An ad tells you that tobacco has cyanide. How is this a violation of your constituaional rights?!?! They are just trying to keep people informed and then they can make informed decisions. And yes, I realize that to be truely informed you have to see both sides, but at least people cvan see the negative side of the situation. But The Truth is in no way a violation of our rights.
And then if you can protect the right of people to smoke, how can you not protect the right of The Truth to say the smoking is bad? This would be basically saying that you are against all advertising. In a ski magazine, an ad for Line will try to convince you that you should buy their skis. This is the same as The Truth telling you that you should not smoke. So does this make you, Freezy, against all advertising?
--------------------
'The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.'
-Goering
'Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.'
-Douglas Adams
P.S. this is what the alphabet would look like if Q and R were removed.
It's America. It's a choice. You made it, you deal with it. '
This just plain pisses me off. I'm not going to get super patriotic, because that is not me. But this has nothing to do with our constitution. Your rights are not being touched. They are just as protected as ever (aside from the Patriot Act, but thats a different issue). An ad tells you that tobacco has cyanide. How is this a violation of your constituaional rights?!?! They are just trying to keep people informed and then they can make informed decisions. And yes, I realize that to be truely informed you have to see both sides, but at least people cvan see the negative side of the situation. But The Truth is in no way a violation of our rights.
And then if you can protect the right of people to smoke, how can you not protect the right of The Truth to say the smoking is bad? This would be basically saying that you are against all advertising. In a ski magazine, an ad for Line will try to convince you that you should buy their skis. This is the same as The Truth telling you that you should not smoke. So does this make you, Freezy, against all advertising?
--------------------
'The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.'
-Goering
'Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.'
-Douglas Adams
P.S. this is what the alphabet would look like if Q and R were removed.
bigJ
Active member
This may seem absurd but if Truth can buy advertising time on TV should Big Tobacco not be able to do the same thing. They are being required to sit idlely whlie they are being hit with accusations that are based of irrelivent and out of context information. If truth is going to have time on TV the ban on tobacco advertisments should also be lifted for defense if nothing else.
Drivin that Train
Drivin that Train
'One of the products of the national tobacco settlement was the American Legacy Foundation, a multi-state foundation that was established by the Master Settlement Agreement and is funded by the tobacco industry to develop anti-smoking education and cessation programs nationwide.'
'I would be embarrassed to constantly complain about my life considering all the freedom and opportunities we have today. People that can't find anything they enjoy in life simply aren't giving it a real try.' ~Nick 311
'I would be embarrassed to constantly complain about my life considering all the freedom and opportunities we have today. People that can't find anything they enjoy in life simply aren't giving it a real try.' ~Nick 311
IceKey
Member
Geekypunkboy just said almost everything I wanted to, I am a little angered about this becasue i read every single one of those posts and wanted to come up with one presenting points other than ones previously stated(I'm not hating my luck just sucks).
First of all, if there was no knowledge of cigarettes in the first place no one would smoke them. Its just like Geekypunkboy siad, its advertising TRUTH is just like infomercials or anybody else out there that is trying to get across a point. TRUTH or anyone else my attempt to make the smokers bad people but that is business in itself, in order to get across your point cons of the opposition are necessary to be presented.
Someone earlier said that the tobacco companies if they could, would produce a healthier cigarette. Personally I don' think cynide occurs naturally within tobacco or when it is burned, I could be wrong however. Not wholefully, but for the most part cigarette companies are all about the money as with most any other business out there. However the product they sell in essence kills people, I realize that people light the cigarette and its not like its being forced upon them. But, the fact of the matter is, is that if they weren't brought up with the fact that smoking is cool or whatever you think, not very many people would smoke. I'm not saying everyone that smokes now wouldn't, but there has to be that initial drive in order to make someone try it.
I apologise if this is poorly written or mispelled, its late and i just got done reading all that and a bunch of homework and i am tired. I also had a few more points but people might misinterperate them so i neglected to include them.
Short Skis Suck, Long Skis Truck
First of all, if there was no knowledge of cigarettes in the first place no one would smoke them. Its just like Geekypunkboy siad, its advertising TRUTH is just like infomercials or anybody else out there that is trying to get across a point. TRUTH or anyone else my attempt to make the smokers bad people but that is business in itself, in order to get across your point cons of the opposition are necessary to be presented.
Someone earlier said that the tobacco companies if they could, would produce a healthier cigarette. Personally I don' think cynide occurs naturally within tobacco or when it is burned, I could be wrong however. Not wholefully, but for the most part cigarette companies are all about the money as with most any other business out there. However the product they sell in essence kills people, I realize that people light the cigarette and its not like its being forced upon them. But, the fact of the matter is, is that if they weren't brought up with the fact that smoking is cool or whatever you think, not very many people would smoke. I'm not saying everyone that smokes now wouldn't, but there has to be that initial drive in order to make someone try it.
I apologise if this is poorly written or mispelled, its late and i just got done reading all that and a bunch of homework and i am tired. I also had a few more points but people might misinterperate them so i neglected to include them.
Short Skis Suck, Long Skis Truck
trevorwoulddoit
Active member
That's true, I remember seeing an anti-smoking ad that said cigarettes contained Hydrogen Cyanide, which is the gas that was used to kill Jews in the holocaust. ( It said that to.) What it didn't say was how much.
When you smoke you are making a conscious choice.
Some people say a cigarette takes 7 minutes off your life.
Some people have an Aunt who smoke two packs and drinks half a bottle of vodka a day and lives to be 95.
Who's right?
When you smoke you are making a conscious choice.
Some people say a cigarette takes 7 minutes off your life.
Some people have an Aunt who smoke two packs and drinks half a bottle of vodka a day and lives to be 95.
Who's right?