FRACKING

What people should be more worried about with fracing and drilling coming to your area is the people and lifestyle that comes with them. North Dakota's environment is fine, but it is probably the worst place to live socially. The amount of violence, drunk driving, rape, and all other crimes is almost out of control up there because there are not enough police officers to enforce laws.
 
and the global socio-political environment... which nobody can control.... it's not just as simple as supply / demand. There are also lag times in crude prices changing and pump prices being effected.... and crude prices are controlled by the global markets, futures trading etc... not the "wholesale" cost if you like of producing a barrel of oil.

Oh - and you forgot taxation.... so no, not so simple economics unfortunately.

Source: I work for a major.

 
Whether or not fracking is as destructive as some activists clam, we should get off fossil fuels. when they run out we are fucked.
 
Hahahahaha... No everybody understood your question, but just as few give a fuck what the violent rapist's side of the story is, neither do rational and even semi-eco-friendly individuals care what the "positives" are when the negatives FAR outweigh them.

I mean if YOUR ground water was contaminated to the point where you could light it on fire, would you care how clean it burns off? Lol.

 
Half this thread needs to join the real world, this "protest" is like protesting people flying in airplanes because it creates atmospheric pollution. Yeah, best of luck. What exactly do you expect to accomplish? You guys are boxing a glacier.

But keep it up because this shit provides endless entertainment.
 
TheOldProspector.jpg
 
No, as you have guessed, I am not a geological engineer. Instead, I am someone much more informed. I would advise against playing the education card with me...no offense intended. Being a geological engineer does not necessarily make you well-informed regarding the environment. It really depends what aspect of geological engineering you dabble in. Anyway, that is neither here nor there.
My figures and facts regarding fracking are correct. There is no reasonable way that you can argue, even in theory, that in the case of a failure everything will be "pumped back up." That is simply impossible, and I believe you understand that.
The reason I want to move other forms of natural gas out of this thread is that this thread is on fracking, one particular way in which one type of natural gas is removed from the environment. Every method of procuring natural gas brings with it a whole host of different issues. If we were discussing apple orchards and how they are being affected by the drought in the northeast, would you come in here arguing that orange trees in Florida are being affected by the brown-throated bole-weavil?
For those questioning the activists, and saying that they are hippies, you should look into this further. There are many, many, MANY anti-fracking organizations, which have all recently formed a coalition. These groups are doing tremendous work, gaining a great deal of press, TV coverage, and are lobbying with a fair amount of effectiveness. A recently formed group is Artists Against Fracking, bringing the glamour of Hollywood to the anti-fracking effort.
These so-called hippies who are working to fight fracking include Matt Damon, Mark Ruffalo, Yoko Ono, and Nicole Kidman.
It is worth noting that Vermont has passed a moratorium on fracking. Success in this arena is possible. Anti-fracking is one of the hottest issues in the US today. Feel free to go out and check my statements and assertions. They all add up, and will check out.
 
Right, so, rich hippies. The fuck would I care what Nicole Kidman thinks? I wouldn't hire her to run a fruit stand, so why would her input on the oil and gas industry matter?

Look, this stuff has happened before and will happen again. There is always some environmentalist fringe group who's all worked up about some outrage that will end civilization as we know it, usually spurred on by 20 year olds. That's cool, find a way to define yourself, gain an identity in your undergrad. Whatever. But understand that the forces you're fighting against are interests that have a) way way too much money, and b) way way too much at stake (thousands upon thousands of jobs and massive dependent industries from automotive to manufacturing to military to transportation and all of the other industries that rely on those things) for you to possibly succeed.

Fracking isn't going anywhere. Unless they find a more effective method that allows for more efficient extraction. Just as burning gas isn't going anywhere until it becomes feasible and more cost-efficient to buy an electric car. If kids really want to make a difference on this stuff they should go become part of the solution: go to school and develop a more efficient, more environmentally safe method of extracting oil (or a more efficient more environmentally safe way of doing ANYTHING, for that matter).

Anyway back to your regularly scheduled hilarity.
 
I agree with you on the fact that there is no way anyone is going to stop fracking cause of the influence that poeple have but that dosn't mean that it isn't wrong and that it should be done. If someone belives in something they should fight for it.
 
Basically to be consistent in taking this position you would also need to take the view that all exploration for natural resources is wrong; be it in the form of fracking, well drilling, open pit mining, what have you.

To which I say, do you own a car? Is it a Chevy Volt? Then shut the fuck up.
 
Except...Vermont has passed a moratorium on fracking. Other states are either passing or seriously investigating passing similar moratoriums or bans. This IS a very real issue, with very real consequences. We aren't talking about logging a mountain here. We aren't talking about mining a picturesque cliff. This is a far-reaching problems, that has serious health implications on both humans and animals, negatively affects the environment, and can alter the land negatively far, far, far into the future. This is not a losing battle, it is not just for hippies, and it is not just a way for 20-somethings to find an identity as you so naively suggest.
Some of the most prestigious universities and professors are investigating and researching fracking, and are arguing for a ban. There is money on the anti-fracking side, although certainly not as much as on the big oil side. Big oil has more money than...well, just about everything. This does not make them right, nor does it guarantee a win. I refuse to believe that fracking is here to stay. The proof of serious harm is evident, and I believe that within the next 10 years fracking will be outlawed in the US.
 
So you're a hippy activist. Fair paraphrasing, I believe. I read you saying you're more informed and smarter than everyone here several times here, yet all you spew out is analogies, typical crybaby treehugging nonsense, zero sources, claims of sources, environmentalist dick sucking, and more crying about how much more wealthy big oil is than your local greenpeace fuckfest. Suck the dick you fucking dumb oblivious sheep, quit blindly following your brilliant celebrities assholes tongue-first and YOU do some research.
 
For the record, I am not an environmental activist and do not work for an anti-fracking organization. I am a concerned, educated, and informed citizen.
 
Hmm, could have fooled me. Your "understanding" may be better served if you at least understood the correct word, which just so happens to be precedent.
 
Hahahahahaha. VERMONT? Vermont has no reserves. None. Ze-ro! Essentially Vermont might as well have banned hunting unicorns! But hey, okay buddy. Whatever you say. You keep fighting that good fight! We'll see how you do getting it banned in the Dakotas.

Shit like this cracks me up.
 
this is the 18th time you've claimed this. nobody gives a fuck about your motives. fucks are given about you having no sources for your ballsack flavored arguments.
 
cement is more of a powder, it is an ingredient in concrete. nobody has a sidewalk made of cement. i stopped taking you seriously after that.
 
the government regulations on cementing a well and the testing that is required has actually made some small service companies not start cementing operations because of the money and liability involved with the test and regulations that have to be met
 
I never said I was smarter. I personally don't know anything on this subject and am not an expert. You're a piece of shit who isn't funny.
 
This isn't about being against natural resource extraction. To exist you need to take from the earth in some way. This is about being against this pretty new form of extraction, which disperses chemicals into the water table undeniably and unavoidably and which uses millions of litres of fresh water and mixes it with these chemicals and lubricants etc so that it is undrinkable. It's silly imo to say that there is too a big support for the industry because making change has always seemed imposing until it's made, and then years later we're like lol it wasn't that bad. Especially in this case of a new industry which has not been widely tested and regulated yet.

I worked on a campaign against fracking at the headwaters of the Skeena/Nass/Stikine in BC which are 3 of the biggest salmon spawning rivers in the country, next to the Fraser. Shell right now wants to explode gas pockets underground with harmful chemicals where these rivers START. That means that any harmful contaminants have a whole river downstream to mess with. It's also an area that many native groups says is the begging of life, so destroying it in this way is the equivalent of paving over Mecca or some such religious site. Here is a map of the well-head density:

sacred-headwaters-facts.jpg


Even if you are not against fracking in general, this example is pretty fucked up.

More info, sorry if I don't know how to make a hyperlink http://forestethics.org/sacred-headwaters-facts
 
^^ no, not all fracking disperses contaminants. Thats cool that you quote information from the toughest-hugging tree humpers on the web, bears will be just fine walking over some roads here and there. Modern natives practice so little of their traditional values anyway, just enough to keep getting their government payouts. (imo. now it's p.c.) and to the preteen above, 'awesomesauce', I don't give a fuck if your feelings are hurt by an accurate description of your demeanor.
 
Way to not quote any information but yourself.

Yes bears are cool walking over roads except they need unbroken space to feel comfortable and not get hit by cars. Also endangered caribou and goats, also provincial wildlife sanctuaries and park bordering or surrounded by this project, also YES fracking always disperses contaminants. Please do explain the process of shooting pressurized water and lubricants and sand and coolants underground to fracture rock and then making sure it doesn't move around at all... please.

Also please generalize more about native populations. They would get money from the project... yet they've blockaded this development and been arrested. Please dictate to them their right to sacred spaces even more.

You can't seriously be defending this project except for the sake of argument. The headwaters of rivers that produce millions of salmon and all the fisheries, eco-tourism benefits that come with that. Ya let's risk that with untested or tested with negative result practices.
 
You have 64 posts and 33 karma. You're either trolling, or just an asshole. Why do you assume I'm a preteen? And that's not an accurate description at all. I never said I was smarter, thought I was smarter, thought I was an expert or implied any of this things. Go back to "not drinking or smoking weed because you're not a pussy". You're a fucking joke.
 
My jury is still out for deliberation, but I must say that regurgitating talking points and information from industry-funded science is equally as dangerous as regurgitating "tree-huggers'" perspectives.
 
I have no strong feelings one way or the other. I think we should just take the money spent on subsidizing coal and put it towards researching cleaner and more efficient ways of producing power, like thorium reactors and fusion.
 
Coal is not subsidized, my family has been in the coal industry for many generations and none of the companies they have worked with or run has been subsides and they have worked with all of the big coal companies
 
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