Fox news video

Soo, the GOP killed roughly 2,000 of its own citizens on US soil, then launched two wars in the Middle East to raise gas prices, accumulate a HUGE deficit, drag America's name through the mud 'a La' Abu Graib, and attempted to dig up the long lost body of Jimmy Hoffa just to scare me?

God damn thats incredible, yet the prevaling perspective on George Bush is that he's an idiot...right.
 
yes exactly, america hates money, thats why we went to war to create a multibillion dollar deficet, ahhh i am enlightened
 
What facts man? Are you saying that people who "suggest" something or someone who says it "looks" like there where explosions are facts? You are what is wrong with this country. You and all your little conspiracy friends who get spoon fed all this bullshit on how the government takes down buildings for their own personal gain. What do you have as a plat form for your side? A few very low quality videos that you suspect things from and a guy who cannot make movies for shit. If it wasn't for that God damned Loose Change video you wouldn't think any of the shit you think of now. Post what do you believe and please read it over and ask yourself, "Does this sound rediculous?" You are just a pawn, a sheep of the Liberals and their agenda which is clouded from you with their anti-Bush propaganda. You may have your opinion... but please let it be your own and not some spoon fed bullshit from some conspiracy fuckers.
 
think about this, if they shot down the plane going at the pentagon, it would land in a town possibly. WOULD THAT BE FUCKIN BETTER? so you fuckin cocks can say the goverment shot it down so it would hit a town. just cause i don't believe those conspiracy theories makes me close minded? i have watched loose change and shit, i don't buy it at all. and what did that kid mean on the first page by we're the only country convicted of terrorism? what happen on 3/11 in spain i think it was, maybe england. when the train blew up from terrorism. AND OF COURSE HES GOING TO DENY IT! why would you admit to killing thousands of people
 
O I know thats the conspiracy i just didnt feel like mentioning that because i thinks its bulllshit. Ya theres also strong evidence i fucked your mom. but its not true. i swear
 
i guarntee a few of your opinions would change if you lived in new york or had family in the fdny or nypd. its real.
 
you are the typical fucking tool who is too ignorant to accept the possibility that the united states of america is pretty fucking great and better then most countries. hey kid, you have it a lot better than a lot of other kids i bet. so shut your fucking mouth ARe you dying of hunger..NO...but you dont care, all you care about is that our country may have possibly done 9/11. You asshole. Save the children.
 
Yes looking at the situation in the Middle East we have an excellent foothold...riiiiiight. We can't even keep Iraq safe nevermind the entire Middle East to our advantage. We don't have the element of fear anymore. "They" have lost control. What good is the element of fear if it isn't being used to your benefit. My point is that we haven't gained anything to advantage. The fear we have created hasn't helped us and won't help us.
 
word. whats with all the hate. calm down guys, everyone has their own opinion until its proved, which i dont think is gonna happen
 
were not hating on anyone really just debating, it gets out of hand when you are discussing such a strongly opinionated subject
 
jesus i cant even keep up with all these comments.

these or not my writing/articles im posting them because im to lazy and imcompatent to argue this effectivley. I have read most of this and unlke most of you its not even close to being as open and shit as you think. there is much more to this then osama bin laden and box cutters. here is is also to try to discrecdit this because its on myspace is crazy. because its used by thousands of girls and emo kids does not mean there are not very well informed people on there.

http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=100649623&Mytoken=6EB82057-6232-BCE9-E55AD5CD3287A7581176645
 
Look dude i want you to answer me, ignore everyone else, just answer me. Okay.

My aunt was in World Trade 7. She almost died. She was running away from the buildings as they colapsed. She said the TV images do no justice. In person you could see the bodies amongst the falling debris, it was a surreal and horrifying experience. On the other side of the river, at work in Jersey City, my uncle watched the towers colapsed thinking..."My beautiful wife is dead". Explain to me why the US government was trying to kill a dearly loved member of my family. Why they would deliberatly cause irreperable emotional damage to the people of New York.

I understand your scepticism, its a good thing, it means we have thinkers out there instead of sheep. But your theory stands now as nothing but a house of cards; without a rational motive your claims are not only unsubstancial, they are downright offensive to those who have lost (or thought they had lost) loved ones.

I get that you're just after the truth, just dont piss on the graves of the fallen innocent to find it.
 
That site has nothing about an advantage we have gained. All I want to know is what advantage have we gained if the government was responsible for Sept. 11.
 
By calling the reason for their death a political stunt. It really trivializes the value of a human life if they can be so easily be cast asside.
 
you are disrespectful because you are dismissing peoples family members as "casualties of war" and that our government THAT PEOPLE SUPPORT killed them to get some sort of profit?
 
holy fuck 1 i never said political stunt. a political stunt would that all republicans promise to do someting crazy if somethings happens or something like that. and second maybeyou should get pissed at bush and his cronies for trivializing human life. i had nothing to do with it. im pointing out why it strongly belive that what we were told is not the truth.
 
I cant get pissed at Bush. I cant make the same hurestic leaps that you're willing to. Until its made abundantly clear how "George and his cronies" felt it necessary to attempt murder on my family I'll be on board.

You still havent answered my question though...
 
umm and what.... your good for our country cause u think that everything our govt. has done is a lie?? haha yeaaa your really benefiting this country.. good job.. keep it up

ohh and by the way.. wheres your evidence that u speak of?
 
the world trade centers were hit by planes that were hijacked by terrorists stop being a fucking rebel and just believe what everything shows, and give your theories up
 
could one leftist please explain to me who "they" are. Who is this "they" that benefits from staging 9/11. Bush is out of office in two years. He cannot take over the world. He only benefits himself when he benefits the United States and the people there within. you scream about blood-for-oil and the corrupted practices of our government, but who do you think benefits when the US makes a billion dollar deal with an Arab oil nation? You do, as an American citizen. You pay 2.80 at the pump instead of 3.15. The govenment of the United States does not engage in questionable activities as some autonomous entity, it does so to benefit the people of the United States. pure logic debunks the govenment conspiracy theories of 9/11.

look up autonomous if you dont know what it means
 
you should join that group in myspace. there are people on there that are much better at talking/explaining/proving facts then i am. all the info is there and that is one example. there are tons of sites. if you go onto that board and you simply state what you believe and why you belive and ask peope to try and prove you wrong you will get some answers. I apologize i cant do that. I am very interested in this subject and have read alot about it but not enough to really argue it. i have too much other stuff going on to be 100% comiited to this. And in case i havent said this i was in albany ny the day it happened. my uncle works in the pentagon and several people from my town malta/ballston spa died. don tell me im disrespeting them by no believe what the media and bush would like us to belive
 
Well, it wouldnt be the first time in history that a government has done incredibly bad things to its people to further its interests.

And stop with all the "why are they out to get me, the lowly citizen that hasnt done anything" crap. If a government wants to further its own agenda, the best tool to do it with is fear. Fear is powerful. Remember all the security checks for months afterwards? How people were suspicious of everyone? How everytime a car backfired people ducked? And look what happened to Bush's approval rating right after the attacks. Everyone supported going to war and striking back. Would we have invaded Afganistan otherwise? Would we have taken out the Taliban and established a foothold in the Middle East that was within striking distance of Iraq without the attacks?
 
at the time of the attacks as well as the time of invasion in iraq the u.s did not have any thoughts that iraq was connected to the attacks in any way so dont say it was to get a "foothold in the middle east"
 
Also, we should be talking about these things. I think we would be disrespecting the people who lost thier lives that day if we didnt talk about the events of that day. And who the hell are we to say what the families of those people want to hear? If I lost my wife on that day, I would definently want to know why she had lost her life, and who was responsible, no matter who it was in the end. Even though you may disagree with someones opinion, they still have a right to say it, like it or not. If you dont like it, then too bad, because thats every citizens first amendment rights.

Related to that, anyone hear about the Westboro Baptist Church case that happened today?
 
lol. Yes political attacks definitely are not hating haha. The subject should not be so opinionated. The subject should be discussed factually.

Ok I'll start.

Occording to the 9/11 comission, Buring fuel pockets in the World Trade Centers burned at temperatures up to 1832 F. The Structural steel in the WTC can withstand temperatures of 2750 F before melting.

Now he's where someone else says:

"But the heat caused a lack of rigidity, and weakened the steel. Thus causing it to collapse under th weight"

And I reply:

The 9/11 comission reports molten steel found among the debris. ...how is this possible if the kerosine fuel present in the planes will not burn hot enough to make the steel anywhere close to molten.

Now continue.

 
But that was a temporary reponse. If the administration were out to cause long term pandemonium they failed miserably. People have remarkably short attention spans, for the most part 9/11 has faded from the social conscoiusness of Americans and they are off gobbling up the next sound bite peice of "in the now" bullshit.

All the administration gained IF they did indeed lower the towers was to send american industry into a tail spin for a while. With the east rising, posed to slap us silly with a large and diligent work force that doesnt seem like a logical move to me.

You can say what you want about the politicians in office...they may be rude or goofy or down right cruel. They may be all of those things, but I'll be damned if you think that they didnt think this shit through. Maybe not George (but thats a different debate) but Condi, Colon (remember him!), Cheney, Rumsfeld and a host of others are all smart as fuck and i dont think they would be so foolish.
 
But that was a temporary reponse. If the administration were out to cause long term pandemonium they failed miserably. People have remarkably short attention spans, for the most part 9/11 has faded from the social conscoiusness of Americans and they are off gobbling up the next sound bite peice of "in the now" bullshit.

All the administration gained IF they did indeed lower the towers was to send american industry into a tail spin for a while. With the east rising, posed to slap us silly with a large and diligent work force that doesnt seem like a logical move to me.

You can say what you want about the politicians in office...they may be rude or goofy or down right cruel. They may be all of those things, but I'll be damned if you think that they didnt think this shit through. Maybe not George (but thats a different debate) but Condi, Colon (remember him!), Cheney, Rumsfeld and a host of others are all smart as fuck and i dont think they would be so foolish.
 


"According to the 9/11 comission, Buring fuel pockets in the World Trade

Centers burned at temperatures up to 1832 F. The Structural steel in

the WTC can withstand temperatures of 2750 F before melting."

These towers were designed to withstand major earthquakes and full floor fires. Its doubtful that the impact of the planes did anything more than just spread jet fuel across the floors where they hit, as aircraft are made of thin metal's and composite plastics. You arent ramming a steel rod into a tower of concrete, it would be more like throwing a full can of soda at it. Thus, the beams that held up the top would still be intact, as the plane's mass would mostly disintergrate into the siding of the tower. Thus, the collapse must have been caused by the only remaining factor, and the most likely of the two since they didnt collapse immediately after impact; The Fire. But if you had read what was posted, that too must be ruled out, saving that the steel used in both the towers had a defects in over half of the supporting beams at the exact spot where each of the planes hit.
 


"According to the 9/11 comission, Buring fuel pockets in the World Trade

Centers burned at temperatures up to 1832 F. The Structural steel in

the WTC can withstand temperatures of 2750 F before melting."

These towers were designed to withstand major earthquakes and full floor fires. Its doubtful that the impact of the planes did anything more than just spread jet fuel across the floors where they hit, as aircraft are made of thin metal's and composite plastics. You arent ramming a steel rod into a tower of concrete, it would be more like throwing a full can of soda at it. Thus, the beams that held up the top would still be intact, as the plane's mass would mostly disintergrate into the siding of the tower. Thus, the collapse must have been caused by the only remaining factor, and the most likely of the two since they didnt collapse immediately after impact; The Fire. But if you had read what was posted, that too must be ruled out, saving that the steel used in both the towers had a defects in over half of the supporting beams at the exact spot where each of the planes hit.
 
whoa buddy...are you an engineer? you make it sound like a skyscraper getting hit by a widebody airliner is analagous to someone getting hit by a water balloon. i'm pretty sure there are forces at play here much too complicated for probably anyone on this site to fully understand. but i can tell you with reasonable certainty that the explosion of a 767 tankful of Jet A is going to some significant damage, even to buildings like the towers.

as to the discovery of molten steel in the wreckage, i'm surprised no one has brought up this possibility: the steel was from a source other than the main structural elements. i'm sure there was more steel of varying grades and lower melting points employed in other capacities in the towers, which was melted by said fire.
 
you are not smart. 2 767's hit the world trade centers. go look at the difference. ok i will do it for you

here is a 767

025344.jpg


here is a 747

1112193515_b747-200f_ocean-airlines_iocea_fra_260305_001.jpg


see the difference?

 
my mistake talking point to you, but still there wre massive holes in the side of the buildings, obviously somewhat destabalizing them
 
If you knew anything of what you are arguing about, you would know that the exterior of the WTC contributed to about 10% of the support of the structures. Structurally, the towers are built around a central collumn in the middle of each that supports the entire building. Those "enormous holes" don't really mean jack shit.

fig3.gif


As described before, commercial airliners are relatively light for their size. A steel frame wrapped with, no lie, 1/8 inch alluminum and plastics. Crashing through the exterior, the planes caused little damage to the internal supports that bear the majority of the structure.

633858.jpg


I also like to point out how high the towers were actually hit. If the north tower was about 100 feet shorter, the damn plane would've only clipped off the antennae. And even the south tower was only hit 1/3 of the way down from the top. The majority of the building's weight is below the site of initial collapse.

US-NY-NYC-World-Trade-Center-attack-20010911-1303GMT-moment-of-collision-of-flight-UA175-Boeing-767-jet-with-south-tower-causing-huge-explosion-seen-from-side-of-entry-2-ANON.jpg


And I would like to briefly talk about the fire. Notice in the picture above a great portion of the jet's fuel explodes outside of the south tower. Therefore reducing the amount inside the building to burn. Yet if fire really brought these buildings down... the south tower was the first to collapse. ALSO regarding the fire. If any of you have taken collegiate general chemistry you would be aware of the different types of flames. Jet-burner, pre-mixed, and Diffuse flames. Combustion requires 3 things, a fuel, oxidant, and a source of initial activation energy. In a diffuse flame, the fuel and the oxidant are not mixed before ignition, but flow together in an uncontrolled manner and combust when the fuel/oxidant ratios reach values within the flammable range. A fireplace flame is a diffuse flame burning in air, as was the WTC fire. Diffuse flames burn the lowest temperatures of all flames.

Due to the large amounts of black smoke emitted from the towers, this would also indicated that the fires were oxidant (oxygen) deprived. Black smiths used blowers to force new air into fires to allow them to become hotter to make iron more workable. When a fire is oxidant deprived it incompletely burns at lower than normal temperature and carries excess fuel in the form of soot with it. This makes me even wonder if the 9/11 Commission's report of max temperature of 1832 F is even correct. I have a hard time believing the fires achieved a temperature of over 1000 F or so. Due to the conditions at play in the towers.
 
Dude, I'm not saying there is a conspiracy theory at all. But 9/11 did change the way everyone lives thier lives in America. Even further than that, it has changed the way America treats other countries. Its really a defining point in our century, just like World War 1 and the fall of the soviet union define the "20th Century".

Yes, we do have short attention spans. Look at Katrina, everyone knew the levee's wouldnt hold, yet because New Orleans didnt get hit for years, we forgot about the threat of Hurricanes. However, this isnt something America has forgotten yet. We still have that terror alert thing to remind us of the ever present danger we all face living our normal lives whenever we get too complacent. Besides that, look how 9/11 has changed such things as our foreign policy. I was supposed to see my Italian exchange student this year, but because her Iranian boyfriends passport was recently denied access to the US, I wont. The world is a lot diffenent after 9/11, and itsa change that wont be forgotten as easily as a hurricane threat. Plus, with all the news about terrorists in other countries, the message only grows and develops in every American mind: Terrorism is the greatest threat to America now.

I really cant speak for the administration at all, and I really have no idea about a 'conspiracy theory' or anything like that. But 9/11 has created a 'long term response'. We might never go back to thinking we are truly safe within our own borders, as terrorists will always be present in our world, unlike Soviet Bears and Communist Parties. I think 9/11 has ushered in a new era, and terrorist has a new meaning and significance in the world we live in now. Whether it was planned or not, the effects are being felt all across the world, and the war against terrorism isnt a war that will have a quick and easy end for us to forget five years after.
 
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