For you 9/11 conspiracy people.

...George Bush does have a history of drug usage if I'm not mistaken...

haha but I'm just joking. I don't think this is just a Bush conspiracy. There are bigger things going on here we don't know about.

#1 If you're going to state statistics don't pull them out of your ass. Let's see where they came from.

#2 We're not talking just about murders here. These are mass murders aka massacres. And most of the time, the people behind them aren't the ones "pulling the trigger". It's alot easier to kill people when you aren't physically doing the killing.

#3 Were the the Allies mentally insane in WWII when they dropped over 10,000 tons of bombs on Dresden and killed between 25,000 and 400,000 civilians in the most controversial action of the war? What about the PLA in the 1980's during the Tiananmen square massacre??? Were they mentally insane... or removing political opposition??? The Soviet Union conducted a series of mass murders to tame political oppostion in countries like Ukraine. Can't forget Jorge Rafael Videla's government rising to power in Argentina.

 
Sorry about not citing the stats. It was late last night. Here's one of the more recent studies published in the American Journal of Psychiatry.

The Dresden bombings happened

in 1945 –four years into the US’s

involvement in WWII. They were designed to quicken the Soviet advance into Germany and

subsequently shorten the world war. And it worked. (BTW, I assume you mean 25,000 - 40,000 civilian casualties). But that’s not the point.

The point is that the Dresden

bombings were legitimately an offensive during a war. The 9/11 attacks were not

by any stretch of the imagination a wartime offensive. Does the fact that the Dresden bombings happened

during a war make them ethically better in the long run? Of course not. But for

some reason our society has decided that “all is fair in war.” The rules allow

for mass murders in wartime.

Li Peng (the Chinese Prime Minister during the Tiananmen Square

Massacre) is allegedly insane. He’s never undergone a psychiatric analysis, so

nobody can be absolutely certain, but in much of what I’ve read about him, he’s

simply considered to be mentally unstable. Historically, it’s obvious that he

has no compassion for human life. You don’t get the lovely nickname “the insane

butcher of China”

without being a little messed up. BUT, even if he’s completely sane, the

Tiananmen Square Massacre was provoked by the students. They were getting

violent. Please don’t think that I in any way condone those sick actions in

1989, but the fact is that when the Massacre started, the protests were no

longer peaceful. 9/11 was not provoked at all.

As for the Soviet’s Ukraine mass murders, I’m sure you

know that Khrushchev’s mental health has been debated. Maybe Russia’s long

history of frequent massacres has made their leaders simply accept mass

murdering as a normal and acceptable political action. I don’t know much on the

subject. My apologies.

It's accepted that Jorge Rafael Videla is probably sane, he’s just a sick

power-hungry individual.

Now I don’t agree with many of George Bush’s actions, but he

does not seem like the sort of monster who could allow the unprovoked killing

of 3000 Americans. He’s not mentally ill, he doesn’t support martial law, the

US doesn’t have a history of frequently massacring thousands of Americans, we

weren’t in a war when 9/11 happened, and he’s not trying to become a dictator

(please don’t try that argument). It seems extraordinarily cynical to consider

all these things and believe that W allowed the 9/11 attacks. In terms of sheer

mental healthiness, W and his administration and I are very similar, and I

could not order the murder of 3000 Americans to gain any reward. I hope you

couldn’t either. For that reason (disregarding the rest of the logical

information debunking the 9/11 conspiracy theories), I’m going to give the Bush

Administration the benefit of the doubt.
 
dude, what is the pendind civilian death toll of Iraq and Afghanistan combined? I don't mean to instigate or anything, I'm seriously curious, since no news channel boasts with sucha statistic and I have no idea myself...any clues, links etc. ?

(I'm only worried becasue I do suspect that it is probably in the thousands, but I would love to be relieved and learn otherwise)
 
Unnoticed...probably not; but unpunished...hell yes! Rwanda? Anyone?

As for the trucks heading for Syria...well...why did the Iraqis have to suffer if they were headed for Syria? Were there many enough to justify a war of this scale? And last but not least, could it not have been coincidence or has someone found out for sure?
 
Like I said, we know because we funded them. We knew we didn't get rid of them all in the Gulf War.

Rwanda, ah yes. One of the worst human disasters of all time. Who would you suggest we punish for these acts? Do you realize how the Rwandan infastructure is run? It's evry similar to what happened in Somalia. We didn't know who to fight. Who do we punish? When there's 4 different groups all slaughtering innocent people who do we help? In Somalia, we helped the wrong side, and it bit us in the ass, hard. French, English, and other minor countries' UN forces bailed out of Rwanda when the massacre started. Did we put 100% effort into stopping the genocide? No. Did we try to help suppourt the innocent civilians? Yes. Did we try to engage in peace talks? Yes.

You don't understand peace talks don't work with African clan leaders. Their one mission in life is to kill Hutu's or to kill all Tootsie's. Rwanda was a disaster that had we intervened, cost the lives of many more than it did. It's shitty to say that, but had the US intervened, we would have a lot more people trying to blow up our buildings right now.
 
I don't want to seem like the prick ripping all your shit apart...but lets be serious here.

"Try" is a very loose term when it comes to what everyone did at that time.
 
What I meant by try was that we (US and UN) did send in food and medical supplies into the country. The problem was we didn't know who to give them to. We just kept giving it out to everyone and the strongest "clan" would take it all for themselves. Yes we did engage in peace talks, but like I said what good are peace talks when your mission is to eliminate the enemy.

I do agree a lot more could have been done. It really does suck that 900,000 people lost their lives in under a year. This is something you can't pin on the US though. It was a French "territory" so to speak. I'm not trying to blame France either, but I'm saying the person who originally brought this up as a bash to the US can't use this as a moot point. Yes, the US should have done something, but it wasn't solely our job.
 
Oh, and I don't mind ripping apart my posts. That's what I expect when I post them.

Sorry for not being totally clear...I'm pretty distracted right now.
 
It's high up there for both civilians and militants. The number they show on the news is nothing compared to what it really is. I talked to a guy at a family outing who was part of the first group to invade Iraq and he said that the orders where to shoot anything that looked like a threat. They where all in armed vehicles and he said that it wasn't even funny how they'd pop up with AK's and they'd just blow them away like nothing. The number just from that group (they all kept track) was in the thousands. Unsure how many where just plain civilians, but just from that one group from that one mission, it's sure to be really fucking high.
 
no matter how "real" it was to you, that doesnt prevent there being the possibility that it was broght on by the govnt
 
if the extent of wmd's that iraq had could fit into 3 18 wheelers, then i doubt they had the ability to impact the united states whatsoever, i am however aware of Abu Nidal, and that saddam hussein was put into power and armed by the us. i never said anything about him killing other iraqi's i said something about iraqi's killing US civillians, which didn't happen until the recent occupation. also terrorism is used to make people be afraid, the u.s. government with their little red orange yellow terror alert scale was terrorism in itself due to the fact that it was a scare tactic used by the government to unite the US people behind what they were really planning - an invasion of iraq - after 9/11 the us government didn't give two shits about afghanistan they were looking for ways to tie it to iraq, which explains the well equipped iraqi coalition involving hundreds of thousands of troops and the invasion of afghanistan which had 11,000. The US needs to stay out of other peoples shit, iraq is all about control of oil and nothing else
 
te official count is around 50,000 iraqis dead, but in reality it's probably closer to 75,000
 
Look. Here's the bottom line. 9/11 was a terrorist attack. It was not a conspiracy. Here's why.

This administration has screwed up just about everything they've tried to do since they took office. They aren't competent enough to have pulled off an attack like that, let alone without it being discovered.
 
haha, that finally makes sense.

On another note...50,000 to 75,000 you say? Now I wonder if Saddam would have killed that many had he stayed in power...Was it worth it?
 
You mean,would he have killed that many from 2003 on without an invasion? Because he was at least 3 times ahead on that figure in intentional, genocidal deaths, let alone the ones he conducted on regular iraqis and war time casualties of his troops...
 
I love how every one on Newschoolers (Including myself) talks like they are a front lines political analyst employed by New York Times (Liberal publication). And how people talk like the actually know every single action ever made of the individuals in the middle of this conflict.
 
why don't they just release the pentagon security camera footage? And the person posting about Bush being declared mentally healty at his physical.. I'm sure he was.
 
that makes a lot of sense. I, for one have never claimed either way, but it is compelling to think that the govnt did have something to do with it.
 
They don't release evidence in an investigation just like that...

And jaross, i think the point quinny was quoting kinda speaks for itself...
 
yea thats like when ur playing CS or halo (on assault) and ur just killing everyone but ur not the one who arms the bomb. the guy who arms the bomb is the real terrorist. i dont know if tht makes sense, but to me it does
 
why. talk to anyone who remembers the vietnam era. They will back up that statement, mostlikley. the gov used to try to counteract protests, now they just ignore them. And this draws less attention to them. Im not talking so much in terms of police force, but rather speaking out, as in verbal defense.
 
OH CRAP! The truth is out! Hurry, stop the presses! You'd think with news like this everyone would know about it and the government would be overthrown!!111!1!1! Why aren't the french backing this film?

Oh, wait.. i got a bit carried away... sorry.
 
You honestly think the US played out Sept. 11 just so we could attack Iraq? My god, you poor ignorant soul.

So what oil have we seen? Where's the oil if that's all we are doing this for. I mean everything is about oil right? So yeah, where is it? Why are prices continiously rising? Stop and think about your logic, it might do some good.
 
Gee, thanks. You of all people telling me how to argue a point? I damn near fell out of my chair from laughing.

You missed the point, as Patty noted. Officials don't avoid speaking out and condemning protests because they are afraid a wild over-elaborate conspiracy could be uncovered. It's far more likely that do it because:

- They have more important things to do than kick shit at protesters.

- They probably know more about a said issue than the protesters.

- Most importantly, to keep their agenda in line so they can get reelected.

Conspiracies can happen, but they are very uncommon. Its mostly bullshit created by armchair activists and pseudo-intellectuals.
 
This video is one of the most redundantly stupid things I have ever seen.

He starts off with his "idea" that there is a secret government. Yet, He fails to mention who is in this or what they have done. All he says is "secret" government rabble rabble I'm a fat attention whore.

Now, later on in this segment he likes to mention Bush being a war machine. Well Mr. Retard, why hasn't Bush attacked Lebanon. We could easily have got away with it by now. Do we really seem interested in it? Could this guy just be spewing more ridiculous ignorance to this crowd, sounds more logical than his initial proposition.

"Please buy my book"- Hmmmm I think that's all that needs to be said with that.

I just absolutely love it when he brings up the Vietnam war. Let's see here. Lyndon B Johnson...A DEMOCRAT with Liberal views. George W. Bush- A republican conservatist. Yes I love the comparison. This is just a classic example. A completely opposite political government and he is comparing them as the same, sheer brilliance. "The government lies to you!" Believe me, I am the prophet to rid this nation of corruption!

"Nobody knows where they come from". That is a bullshit remark in itself. Two of those 19 members fought with Bin Laden in anti-Russian establishment days in Afghanistan. I have gathered this from many sources and would love to post the books here if you would like. Again, the CIA funded this group, so quite a bit were known about these 2 men. They do exist, believe it.

There's a heavy difference between lying and wrong...Please refer to my WMD's post above for more info on that.

I tried to skim the rest of the video, and he has no point. He never states a valid advantage to why we would have set up 9/11. It's people like this that give critical thinkers a bad name.
 
he does not fail to mention who the "secret government " is , he is talking about all the people behind the scenes, cia,nsa, paul wolfowitz and all his cronies. and again scratch you right he said rabble rabble im a fat attention whore. nice thats a good way to argue. you do realize how close bush is to sending troops in with the un's approval to keep the peace. the us and france are both trying to get troops in lebanon. as to him saying please buy my book, he is talking to a group of people who made the effort to go see him and hear what he has to say, him asking them to buy his book which in detail explains what he is talking about seems like a fine thing to do. you obviously didint watch the whole video and as to him talking about vietnam he was making the point the the reasons given to the us to go into vietnam were bs just like the ones bush gave to get us to go into iraq. he brings up a lot of good points but you chose to focus on a few issues you had problems with that really were not issues at all. you interperated them the wrong way
 
did you know were getting ready to invade cuba too!? believe it!!!!111!!!

and the kid you quoted is who this post was aimed at. hes needs a new hobby.
 
No, no I really didn't. He said orginzations...wow he has so much knowledge about this "secret" government.

This man wants nothing more than attention. It's true. Bush will not be sending troops into Lebanon. The UN is already there. Bush may not be the brightest, but he isn't that dumb.

This man has very select and biased information on the terrorists themselves. This is what really made me just quit watching.

I say again, this man has proven no reasons why the government staged 9/11 and what they have gained out of it as a result of it. It's good to be open minded, but not flat out ignorant.
 
I would love to meet his audience that sat through that bullshit for 2 hours and applauded. They must be very edjumacated on this subject now.
 
ok you have stated your a democrat , I dont believe you but i dont really care either. its is basically impossible to change a persons views over newschoolers so i dont know why i try anymore. the video is solid, you dont believe so and i respect.
 
This video is not solid. It may have some fact, yes. What good is fact if there is no relevance?

I say it again. His "theory" is preposterous and he inflates his sense of knowledge to the public. It's not too hard to see through him.

Bringing up past events and different government cabinets are not going to prove anything whatsoever that our government set up 9/11.

I ask this for the last time. Please do me a huge favor. Sit down. Relax. Ask yourself: Why would the government stage this? Why would they kill their own citizens? How has this worked out to benefit the government?

Don't even ponder the idea that we did this just to invade Iraq. We haven't seen a god damn drop, and if we ever do, it sure as hell will not be in Bush's term. We all know a Bush friend will not be elected next. Stop letting people create an excessive illusion for you.
 
jaross, I withdraw my proclamation that you are the absolute intellectual runt of the human litter. Clearly FuckThePolice is more deserving of the honor.
 
Conspiracy nuts who blame the Administration for 9/11 are not representative of the sane left wing population. To them I can only say: please, stop hurting the team.

There are WAY better things to complain about as far as what this administration has done. Here are 26 of them.

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/iraqrept2.html

... If you're willing to read it. Or you could all go on in ignorance. And by the way, now I'm talking to BOTH sides of the political aisle. Just in case you missed that.
 
Here's a clue:

Professor Plum, in the conservatory, with the google video of Webster Tarpley.
 
haha exactly my point, the US was looking for reasons to blow up iraq, sounds like a personal vendetta to me, bush said himself "the man [hussein] tried to kill my father", however dumbass the reason gas prices are so high is not because of a lack of oil it's because there are a lack of refineries currently operational due to hurricane katrina, look up your facts dumbass, also, look at the pentagon pictures after the attack the angle at which the plane had crashed was at an angle parallel to the ground, is this plausible? yes, however the hole in the side of the pentagon was not high or large enough to have taken in an entire boeing 777 do you realize how big that airplane is? and how small that hole was? and since it was on the ground, why isn't the ground fucked up in front of the building? do the math retard it doesn't add up
 
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