Florida to Require Drug Tests for Welfare
- Thread starter Alpine3
- Start date
try to find someone who agrees with you on that... "uh so like instead of actually defending my points i'll nit pick little things that you said so i'll sound like i'm smart without like actually stating anything of value to what i believe!" nice job never stating how welfare and other public services are exactly the same and should be treated as such! i mean drug testing to get welfare is exactly like drug testing to use a state funded highway!
and yeah that whole idea of throwing everyone in jail and using them for slave labor was a tremendously defended and brilliant idea you fucking idiot.
and yeah that whole idea of throwing everyone in jail and using them for slave labor was a tremendously defended and brilliant idea you fucking idiot.
Static
Active member
yea, your comments have been much better, just make stuff up to argue against that I didn't even say. And then get faced on every comment, go read the last page see where every time I quote your "nit picking"
the original quote from mackinnon was
"if people have to take drug tests to get employment (as many jobs do), people should have to be drug tested to receive welfare from those working people's tax dollars"
I said what other programs should we do this for? some were similar to welfare, some were not. but all are programs paid for by taxes, from people who might have to take drug tests.
We should really move on from this, you are clearly too hung up on the wild card examples used to make a point about drawing a line.
on to,
---- the jail situation!---
If you are for the drug testing you are essentially endorsing my work or jail program for those on drugs.
Try to keep up:
Test positive for drugs -> No welfare (the exact scenario I proposed, NO WELFARE)
Now what do you think will happen
A person has to eventually eat to live. Now RubberSoul said something about people starving to death on the streets, well that's not really how it happens you don't just keel over all of a sudden....
SO that hunger will drive a person to food. Since we aren't surrounded by free food, there are two choices:
they can earn it, or steal it.
If they earn it, great fucking great, another productive member of society. The system works!
If they steal it, they will be arrested for the crime. Now you may not care to offset prison costs through inmate labor, i conceded that part long ago. That's fine, someone has to pay for the prison, if it isn't going to be the inmates, i guess that means we have to pay for it. Sure jail sucks for the person locked inside, but, at least we have a criminal away from the lawful members of society, and remember they chose crime over work. I'm not proposing a life sentence for stealing a loaf of bread, once released they can make the same choice, earn or steal.
-- now here is where you've been getting left behind. You can see the simple logic the new requirement appears to instill . "if I want to receive welfare I need to abstain from drug use"
But lets try to go a step further eliminating government funded welfare all together, "if I want to eat and have shelter I need to work or find a private party willing to help, not rely on the governments muscle to steal someone else's money"
inb4 jobs arn't out there... no one would die of hunger before they could find a job. Otherwise we would have people without the means to even get on welfare dead from starvation (if they are so uneducated to walk into a McDonalds they probably arn't smart enough to walk into a government building and file for assistance.) Even if they had no way of getting welfare or a job, there are people like RubberSoul willing to donate their money to assist those unwilling or unable to help themselves. With a much reduced welfare base, private vs public, the screening process would most likely be improved and hopefully those needing the help the most get it, (or not that's up to the people giving the money away, you are experiencing that right now by supporting the drug testing)
so there you have it
the original quote from mackinnon was
"if people have to take drug tests to get employment (as many jobs do), people should have to be drug tested to receive welfare from those working people's tax dollars"
I said what other programs should we do this for? some were similar to welfare, some were not. but all are programs paid for by taxes, from people who might have to take drug tests.
We should really move on from this, you are clearly too hung up on the wild card examples used to make a point about drawing a line.
on to,
---- the jail situation!---
If you are for the drug testing you are essentially endorsing my work or jail program for those on drugs.
Try to keep up:
Test positive for drugs -> No welfare (the exact scenario I proposed, NO WELFARE)
Now what do you think will happen
A person has to eventually eat to live. Now RubberSoul said something about people starving to death on the streets, well that's not really how it happens you don't just keel over all of a sudden....
SO that hunger will drive a person to food. Since we aren't surrounded by free food, there are two choices:
they can earn it, or steal it.
If they earn it, great fucking great, another productive member of society. The system works!
If they steal it, they will be arrested for the crime. Now you may not care to offset prison costs through inmate labor, i conceded that part long ago. That's fine, someone has to pay for the prison, if it isn't going to be the inmates, i guess that means we have to pay for it. Sure jail sucks for the person locked inside, but, at least we have a criminal away from the lawful members of society, and remember they chose crime over work. I'm not proposing a life sentence for stealing a loaf of bread, once released they can make the same choice, earn or steal.
-- now here is where you've been getting left behind. You can see the simple logic the new requirement appears to instill . "if I want to receive welfare I need to abstain from drug use"
But lets try to go a step further eliminating government funded welfare all together, "if I want to eat and have shelter I need to work or find a private party willing to help, not rely on the governments muscle to steal someone else's money"
inb4 jobs arn't out there... no one would die of hunger before they could find a job. Otherwise we would have people without the means to even get on welfare dead from starvation (if they are so uneducated to walk into a McDonalds they probably arn't smart enough to walk into a government building and file for assistance.) Even if they had no way of getting welfare or a job, there are people like RubberSoul willing to donate their money to assist those unwilling or unable to help themselves. With a much reduced welfare base, private vs public, the screening process would most likely be improved and hopefully those needing the help the most get it, (or not that's up to the people giving the money away, you are experiencing that right now by supporting the drug testing)
so there you have it
you guys are absolutely rediculous.
if you think that those who cant help themselves are the source of your problems, then you ve been brainwashed by fox news...
giving free healthcare or giving money to people who dont have a job so they can feed their family doesnt cost as much as those republican fuckheads want you to think...
instead of testing pot among unemployed people, the USA could also stop spending billions and billions in wars, which are just made to make a few people richer....
when i see comments like "i m tired to pay tax and not see them at good use". Any dude on welfare smoking a joint is a better tax money use than buying freaking bombs to kill kids in afghanistan.
but whatever, i guess it s the american way, every one for himself...
if you think that those who cant help themselves are the source of your problems, then you ve been brainwashed by fox news...
giving free healthcare or giving money to people who dont have a job so they can feed their family doesnt cost as much as those republican fuckheads want you to think...
instead of testing pot among unemployed people, the USA could also stop spending billions and billions in wars, which are just made to make a few people richer....
when i see comments like "i m tired to pay tax and not see them at good use". Any dude on welfare smoking a joint is a better tax money use than buying freaking bombs to kill kids in afghanistan.
but whatever, i guess it s the american way, every one for himself...
alpacarider
Member
SHUT THE FUCK UP you do not know all the answers. i don't either but i dont need to see multiple posts that all boil down to you thinking you are some kind of genius who is better than everyone else and wants everyone that commits a small crime to be punished severely.
I personally believe that prison should be for rehabilitation and not for punishment but the idea is somewhat impractical considering available money etc.
I personally believe that prison should be for rehabilitation and not for punishment but the idea is somewhat impractical considering available money etc.
MitchPee
Active member
Yeah, so let's cut off everyone with a trust fund. They didn't earn that lifestyle. Also, we should completely eliminate all inheritance because they didn't earn it. Oh wait, those are mostly rich white people and not the "scum" you so happily look down upon. How come we never see this same logic of not "earning it" on fox news when applied to people who inherited companies?
I'm curious how have you earned your lifestyle? Do you pay all of your bills? Are you over 18? Why do you have such a sense of entitlement?
You realize if you were to get laid off from a company you worked at for years and diagnosed with a very serious illness that required hospitalization you could be billed hundreds of thousands of dollars? That's why we have a safety net and those are the people who should be able to use it. This scenario is very rare but it does happen, along with other terrible luck situations like this.
I'm not trying to be a dick but you show almost no lacking of reality. My solution is similar to what Clinton wanted to do but welfare goes in the form of job creation, job training, food assistance, and housing. Money that otherwise would have been handed out and used for luxury goods would now be forced to be creating human capital. Not only would it provide experience to help show/realize talent, it also provides specific channels for how people can gain employment on a long term basis.
As per thread topic.: don't agree with the illegality of drugs in the first place so I don't support this law. I believe that if a drug impedes on your performance of a job you should be fired, but it shouldn't be held as a screening tool. There are already far too many of those. Also my solution would put an end to free checks rendering it almost impossible to buy drugs in the first place.
I'm curious how have you earned your lifestyle? Do you pay all of your bills? Are you over 18? Why do you have such a sense of entitlement?
You realize if you were to get laid off from a company you worked at for years and diagnosed with a very serious illness that required hospitalization you could be billed hundreds of thousands of dollars? That's why we have a safety net and those are the people who should be able to use it. This scenario is very rare but it does happen, along with other terrible luck situations like this.
I'm not trying to be a dick but you show almost no lacking of reality. My solution is similar to what Clinton wanted to do but welfare goes in the form of job creation, job training, food assistance, and housing. Money that otherwise would have been handed out and used for luxury goods would now be forced to be creating human capital. Not only would it provide experience to help show/realize talent, it also provides specific channels for how people can gain employment on a long term basis.
As per thread topic.: don't agree with the illegality of drugs in the first place so I don't support this law. I believe that if a drug impedes on your performance of a job you should be fired, but it shouldn't be held as a screening tool. There are already far too many of those. Also my solution would put an end to free checks rendering it almost impossible to buy drugs in the first place.
lineskier10
Active member
just because you "drive through an impoverished area" or you have "worked in community centers" does not mean you have any fucking idea of the percentage of people who abuse welfare, the number of rich white dickheads claiming they know shit about people who are on welfare because they drive through "impoverished areas" in this thread is fucking astounding
BootySpunk.
Active member
And by drugs they mean weed....at least all the crack, meth, heroin, etc addicts will be able to get welfare. Oh and the alcoholics also.
RubberSoul
Active member
source please? are you regarding social security etc as welfare again? that's pretty obviously not what the topic is
DirtyDan
Active member
This is good in a way, but also bad.
My main concern is that weed can be detected so long after use, but drugs that actually are harmful and turn people into freaks (meth, herion, crack) leave the body in 1 or 2 days. I feel this test might alienate more stoners than crackheads and junkies and shit.
My main concern is that weed can be detected so long after use, but drugs that actually are harmful and turn people into freaks (meth, herion, crack) leave the body in 1 or 2 days. I feel this test might alienate more stoners than crackheads and junkies and shit.
BootySpunk.
Active member
Okay from reading the thing the OP posted it sounds like they are going to drug test people just once when they apply for welfare and never again. Meaning that once they past said drug test (which isn't hard depending on your drug of choice) they can just go and do whatever drugs they please and continue to abuse the system, right?
This is all assuming the person applying to welfare does drugs and is at least somewhat smart.
Getting past drug tests isn't fucking hard. And how much is it going to cost to drug test every single new person who applies for welfare? Drug tests aren't that cheap.
Just seems like they could figure out a better way to make sure people spent the money on things they were supposed to.
Honestly it just seems stupid and a terrible solution for a major problem.
This is all assuming the person applying to welfare does drugs and is at least somewhat smart.
Getting past drug tests isn't fucking hard. And how much is it going to cost to drug test every single new person who applies for welfare? Drug tests aren't that cheap.
Just seems like they could figure out a better way to make sure people spent the money on things they were supposed to.
Honestly it just seems stupid and a terrible solution for a major problem.
RubberSoul
Active member
Yeah, i know, and i also know you like to come in threads that are clearly about welfare as in safety net programs, and slide the huge numbers of medicare/aid and SS in with safety net programs to inflate your numbers and continue your rhetoric..
youre a knowledgeable dude, it's too bad you throw most of it out the window by acting like a condescending prick and doing stupid shit like the above..
we are VERY clearly talking about the 10-20% of taxes that go to safety net programs.. i have no idea why you try to sneak in the completely different ~50% of taxes that go to SS etc.. that's bush league
youre a knowledgeable dude, it's too bad you throw most of it out the window by acting like a condescending prick and doing stupid shit like the above..
we are VERY clearly talking about the 10-20% of taxes that go to safety net programs.. i have no idea why you try to sneak in the completely different ~50% of taxes that go to SS etc.. that's bush league
freestyler540
Active member
yup because most drugs are rapidly metabolized and cleaned from the system. weed takes forever.
Its funny how the right like to blame welfarers for all the socio-economic problems in the states. I think government corruption is more expensive than the welfare program.
Its funny how the right like to blame welfarers for all the socio-economic problems in the states. I think government corruption is more expensive than the welfare program.
RubberSoul
Active member
even if i generously grant you medicare (which is a huge stretch given that we are talking about welfare as in unemployment etc, and his aside was about the proposed healthcare reform, which wasnt in place in 2010 obviously), then you're still sneaking more than 40 percent of taxes that is not related into your number... pretty underhanded argument tactic no?
RubberSoul
Active member
"if you think that those who cant help themselves are the source of your problems, then you ve been brainwashed by fox news... giving free healthcare or giving money to people who dont have a job so they can feed their family doesnt cost as much as those republican fuckheads want you to think..."
"free healthcare" = obviously talking about proposed healthcare reform as an aside, as an example
it WOULD be very generous for me to grant you the healthcare reform cost that we're NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT. and as i said, even if i DID grant you that, you're still sneaking in like 40% that's simply not relevant to the discussion.
fact: you tripled the amount of tax % we're talking about to BS your argument. i'm not butthurt, youre just a sneak
don't bother replying, im not looking to get into another stupid argument with you, i just hate to see you present shit like that as support for your rhetoric and think that people probably swallow it sometimes
"free healthcare" = obviously talking about proposed healthcare reform as an aside, as an example
it WOULD be very generous for me to grant you the healthcare reform cost that we're NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT. and as i said, even if i DID grant you that, you're still sneaking in like 40% that's simply not relevant to the discussion.
fact: you tripled the amount of tax % we're talking about to BS your argument. i'm not butthurt, youre just a sneak
don't bother replying, im not looking to get into another stupid argument with you, i just hate to see you present shit like that as support for your rhetoric and think that people probably swallow it sometimes
RubberSoul
Active member
wow
fillup
Active member
Earned from what? Exploiting others and calling it capitalism? No its cool though, as long as you do whatever it takes to get a hold of alot of federal RESERVE paper printed with ink. The interest of the reserve is to make sure the whole country succeeds. instead of some people getting away with murder and shit loads of money (wall street) and others working minimum wage spending their checks on consumer goods that they will be replaced in less then a year
RubberSoul
Active member
WE-ARE-NOT-TALKING-ABOUT-MEDICARE. i dont know how many times i'll need to remind you that welfare (..not the umbrella term............) is different from the systems you love to bring up cause your rhetoric can benefit from it. youve done this so many times, you ignore the points being made and group SS medicare/aid etc so that you can damn them all at once and try to force your opponent to defend them all, which obviously would help you win the argument. i have never once tried to defend SS/medicare/aid and have no interest in it but you always try to portray that as the argument
just stop. we were talking about welfare and the morality and logistics of it. NOT a different 40% of taxes. jesus christ.
just stop. we were talking about welfare and the morality and logistics of it. NOT a different 40% of taxes. jesus christ.
skiminnesota
Active member
they are all essentially transfer payments.
SS is a broken system that you and I are paying into for our grandparents. I hope to god im wrong but i dont plan on collecting in 40ish years.
the morality of welfare doesnt exist. only free will charitable giving is "moral". being asked to give at the end of a gun isnt really asking is it?
and so it continues
SS is a broken system that you and I are paying into for our grandparents. I hope to god im wrong but i dont plan on collecting in 40ish years.
the morality of welfare doesnt exist. only free will charitable giving is "moral". being asked to give at the end of a gun isnt really asking is it?
and so it continues
Will_
Member
okay.. people are born into poverty. Ill agree with that (obviously). And I completely understand that it is very very hard to get out of poverty once you are born into it.
But, if your goal is to get people that are in poverty out of poverty, do you actually think that GIVING these people money for NOTHING, will get them in the proper mindset needed to get out of poverty??? No, it doesn't work that way.
In this country, because of laws that protect against discrimination, impoverished people have every single opportunity for education, employment, etc, that everyone else has. The thing that separates them, and keeps them in that cycle of poverty, is the mindset that they are in. Thats it.
But, if your goal is to get people that are in poverty out of poverty, do you actually think that GIVING these people money for NOTHING, will get them in the proper mindset needed to get out of poverty??? No, it doesn't work that way.
In this country, because of laws that protect against discrimination, impoverished people have every single opportunity for education, employment, etc, that everyone else has. The thing that separates them, and keeps them in that cycle of poverty, is the mindset that they are in. Thats it.
RubberSoul
Active member
i said wow because you still couldnt grasp that we're not talking about your beloved subjects...THAT is a concept not hard to grasp..
i'm not butthurt, youre just a sneak and can't admit when youre caught red-handed fudging arguments. there's nothing else to say here
and.. nice one?
i'm not butthurt, youre just a sneak and can't admit when youre caught red-handed fudging arguments. there's nothing else to say here
and.. nice one?
thank you. this guy i know, he's a bit older than me, started out HOMELESS for fun. he had nothing to his name and one day decided to get back to reality so all he did was look clean and presentable and now he's got a comfortable life in a nice area with a great family and career.
the main underlying problems are ignorance (lack of knowledge) and attitude, that's all.
the main underlying problems are ignorance (lack of knowledge) and attitude, that's all.
PopsicleStand
Active member
Im pretty sure this is the level of discourse that our politicians carry out daily.
No really.
No really.
Will_
Member
its a DRUG test. Not a POT test.
"giving free healthcare or giving money to people who dont have a job so they can feed their family doesnt cost as much as those republican fuckheads want you to think..."
Whatever you say buddy. The point is, it costs a shitload, and if these people are getting money that comes out of my paycheck to pay for feeding their family, that better be what the fuck they spend it on, not drugs.
You really are wrong. i would sit here and go into every single point you made, and prove each point wrong, but i honestly dont have the time and energy. Youll just have to take my word for it.
Bottom line, if you wanna help poor people, get the fuck off your ass and go help them. dont sit here and call us shitheads.
"be the change you wish to see in the world"
"giving free healthcare or giving money to people who dont have a job so they can feed their family doesnt cost as much as those republican fuckheads want you to think..."
Whatever you say buddy. The point is, it costs a shitload, and if these people are getting money that comes out of my paycheck to pay for feeding their family, that better be what the fuck they spend it on, not drugs.
You really are wrong. i would sit here and go into every single point you made, and prove each point wrong, but i honestly dont have the time and energy. Youll just have to take my word for it.
Bottom line, if you wanna help poor people, get the fuck off your ass and go help them. dont sit here and call us shitheads.
"be the change you wish to see in the world"
Ben.
Active member
Cool so were going to spend more money on drug tests, instead of less than we would on welfare in the first place. Raising the deficit is fine, just not if the money is going to poor folks eh? Idiotic. I see their intentions, but this implementation is utter failure, and taxpayers will pay the consequence.
ohmythugaim
Active member
lolno.
207
Active member
THANK FUCKING GOD.
Now if they could just stop handing our money to somalians walking into our country getting everything they fucking need. This is america, help them out when we can not when theres a fucking recession and we're getting taxed so somalians can go to al ahrami market or fuck up a school system because they can't even speek english.
Now if they could just stop handing our money to somalians walking into our country getting everything they fucking need. This is america, help them out when we can not when theres a fucking recession and we're getting taxed so somalians can go to al ahrami market or fuck up a school system because they can't even speek english.
ohmythugaim
Active member
wololo
mackinnon
Active member
"speek" english...ironic post is ironic.
alternately, maine is seriously fucking up with welfare- a house on my street (none of us understand why there is a double wide in downtown camden) has been a revolving door of poor white trash who literally move to maine just for the social services. the DEA stormed the house one time because one of the tenants was part of a big prescription drug trafficking ring (said woman was a care provider at a nursing home, DESPICABLE)and i have no doubt that woman was a user. Maine should follow FL's example with this one...
alternately, maine is seriously fucking up with welfare- a house on my street (none of us understand why there is a double wide in downtown camden) has been a revolving door of poor white trash who literally move to maine just for the social services. the DEA stormed the house one time because one of the tenants was part of a big prescription drug trafficking ring (said woman was a care provider at a nursing home, DESPICABLE)and i have no doubt that woman was a user. Maine should follow FL's example with this one...
VT_FLO
Active member
in vt you can't afford to pay for heat rent and food on a full time salary below 12$ an hour if you are trying to feed more than yourself. This isn't about an xbox or living above your means, many of the working poor don't have the means to survive on their own with work and need the welfare to survive. Do you suggest that since they are living above their means by using welfare for heat and food they shouldn't have heat or food?
207
Active member
You all know I meant "speak" so tune it down, my e key is sticky because I just ate a jolly rancher popsicle and I spilled a little on my mac.
To end this story, Maine is #1 in the nation for handing out benefits. That's why every young somali comes here and fucks up our school systems. I watched a CBS report that said so many hobos try and hitchhike to Maine because they can essentially get anything they want.
http://www.asmainegoes.com/content/maine-number-two-nation-food-stamp-usage
Arizona is the only state ahead of us in Food Stamps and they're a fucking economic powerhouse with Phoenix, Tempe, etc. Maine has legitimately no industries except for Bath Iron Works. Maine can't afford to fucking hand money left and right, and the people of Maine don't deserve their tax dollars to go to that.
To end this story, Maine is #1 in the nation for handing out benefits. That's why every young somali comes here and fucks up our school systems. I watched a CBS report that said so many hobos try and hitchhike to Maine because they can essentially get anything they want.
http://www.asmainegoes.com/content/maine-number-two-nation-food-stamp-usage
Arizona is the only state ahead of us in Food Stamps and they're a fucking economic powerhouse with Phoenix, Tempe, etc. Maine has legitimately no industries except for Bath Iron Works. Maine can't afford to fucking hand money left and right, and the people of Maine don't deserve their tax dollars to go to that.
cobra_commander
Active member
It's not their fault they don't have a job...
It's not their fault they need welfare to get food...
it's not their fault they spend the welfare money on drugs...
It's not their fault they need more welfare to get food...
It's just people with jobs exploiting those without jobs by giving them money to buy drugs with... Fucking rich assholes.
It's not their fault they need welfare to get food...
it's not their fault they spend the welfare money on drugs...
It's not their fault they need more welfare to get food...
It's just people with jobs exploiting those without jobs by giving them money to buy drugs with... Fucking rich assholes.
freestyler540
Active member
Thats great because all welfarers consume drugs. Lets let the less fortunate suffer in hunger, just cut the diseased hand off. America FUCK YEAH! every man for himself.
/sarcasm
/sarcasm
Static
Active member
haha it isn't about living above your means????? wtf are you talking about? if you can't afford to feed your family you are living above your means. Spread your legs it's on you. Can't take care of your children, that's fine, I have no problem paying for child protective services. It's not the kids fault. It's disgustingly irresponsible to have children if you can't afford them.
SirFryanator
Active member
.
mackinnon
Active member
i saw in that link the %s for new england food stamp usage...maine has 1.5 million people in its entirety, while MA and CT have cities with population >1million like boston, lowell, lawrence, worcester and hartfod and and maine still has a higher usage rate than all of them. insanity.
scratchproteen
Active member
Every state needs to do this.
If I have to drug test to get my job...then they should definitely have to drug test if they want my tax dollars.
If I have to drug test to get my job...then they should definitely have to drug test if they want my tax dollars.